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Jellis

Member Since 2020
Hello everyone,

I have a 13-year-old cat, Nacho, who we have been treating for his diabetes for the last two years. We were going to a new vet after a year of our old vet doing monthly glucose checks and not having any clue how to make things better other randomly upping and downing insulin. The new vet talked about a diet change and we changed to a low carbohydrate diet and increased his insulin. As I am sure many of you can guess I just got back from the hospital and this approach nearly killed my cat. He pulled through after multiple seizures and is back home.

It took about a week and a half of the change from dry to wet and going to a low carb wet food for this to occur. I would still like to give him the best food possible I can, but also know I can't realistically make him food. I was wondering if people could recommend good daily food and also should I stick with just feeding him twice a day between like the last two vets recommended. I feel like he does not eat it all when I go with this approach.

Any and all information would be appreciated. It has been a stressful 24 hours. It is nice to have my boy back sitting in his cube next me while I type this.
 
They switched him to low-carb AND increased his insulin at the same time? :eek: Poor bud!

Some basics we do here is home-testing, low-carb food, and good insulin. Could you tell me what food he's on now, and his insulin? Are you testing at all?
We test to avoid situations just like what happened to Nacho, it's very dangerous and expensive to treat. As are monthly glucose checks. Would it be crazy if I told you a whole supply of home-testing supplies is significantly cheaper than a single glucose curve? Yep.

The only other thing bugging me is the feeding two times a day - that is only for dogs. Vets like to treat dogs and cats the same way but they are worlds apart as far as diabetes treatment. If Nacho is a grazer, leave food out all day for him. If he scarfs his food/you're unable to leave food out (due to other pets) you give scheduled meals, this helps guide the insulin and BG.

I can go into further detail once we get the basics figured out. :) Welcome to the forum!
 
The main thing you need to do is start home testing. Any change in food ca affect the bg levels considerably, as you experienced which is horrifying and I’m so sorry you and Nacho had to go through it. If you’re in the US, you can go to Walmart and buy their ReliOn meter, test strips and lancets too. It’s pretty affordable and very accurate and reliable. We recommend that you test before each shot to make use it’s safe to give the insulin. A few questions, what insulin, what’s the dosage, and what food are you feedin? Most of us feed fancy feast pate which is perfectly fine and low in carbs. You want food that’s less than 10% carbs and no, you don’t have to feed twice a day only. As Panic said that’s what works for dogs, not cats who have a much higher metabolism. It’s also easier on their already compromised pancreas to have several smaller meals throughout the day.
 
Thank you both for the quick response, I am in Wisconsin and grabbed a ReliOn a few months ago, but have been nervous about using it. I took it to my old vet to show me and they made such a mess of it and there was so much blood that it really put me off. We had been using the fancy feast box from Costco before the vet advised the change so he has been on tiki for 2 weeks. He was at 3 units of glargin for months switched to 4 two weeks ago, animal hospital moved it to one twice daily for now after this incident. He nearly died last night, so thank you all for the information.

We can't keep food out, we just adopted a new kitty as we lost Nacho's sister over the summer. The new kitty eats everything, we have to be very careful as she took a goldfish cracker from my daughter's bowl and ate that clearly a stray with how she approaches food.
 

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They switched him to low-carb AND increased his insulin at the same time? :eek: Poor bud!

Some basics we do here is home-testing, low-carb food, and good insulin. Could you tell me what food he's on now, and his insulin? Are you testing at all?
We test to avoid situations just like what happened to Nacho, it's very dangerous and expensive to treat. As are monthly glucose checks. Would it be crazy if I told you a whole supply of home-testing supplies is significantly cheaper than a single glucose curve? Yep.

The only other thing bugging me is the feeding two times a day - that is only for dogs. Vets like to treat dogs and cats the same way but they are worlds apart as far as diabetes treatment. If Nacho is a grazer, leave food out all day for him. If he scarfs his food/you're unable to leave food out (due to other pets) you give scheduled meals, this helps guide the insulin and BG.

I can go into further detail once we get the basics figured out. :) Welcome to the forum!
I've always fed my cats twice a day. They are hungry in the morning and again around 5 pm. I quit leaving food out all the time because one of my cats is really fat (on a low-fat wet food) and another will only eat dry food.
 
I've always fed my cats twice a day. They are hungry in the morning and again around 5 pm. I quit leaving food out all the time because one of my cats is really fat (on a low-fat wet food) and another will only eat dry food.
If it works that’s fine but if the cat is hungry and asking for food and/or needs to gain weight that’s not a good idea. Again, it’s easier on the pancreas when they graze.
 
A tuxedo cat! My favorite! :D

Wow I am so sorry you almost lost him last night. You've come to the right place, many cats have been saved from devastating situations here. :bighug:

3 units is a lot ... so is 4. Most cats won't ever need more than 3. Some do, but most do not. A drop down to 1 unit is a lot as well. Just to paint a picture.

1. Food

As Ale said, we like food that is under 10% carbs, ideally under 5%. Friskies Pate is actually acceptable (don't know if you were using that variety though), Fancy Feast Classics or Roasted is acceptable, and Tiki Cat is also acceptable. Tiki Cat is expensive though, so you can switch to something cheaper. There are other options too, some are even cheaper. Here is a chart we use ... anything under 10% carbs is fair game.

As I said, we prefer to feed multiple times a day AND during the night. Most of us use Petsafe 5 autofeeders, so we can actually leave the house or get sleep haha! I have a multi-cat household and I usually gave the meals by hand because everyone would have eaten the food if I left it out. The multiple meals is used because 1) small meals are easier on the pancreas and 2) it helps steer the drop of BG. A cat with low BG will seek out food so we want to have that available to them.

2. Insulin

Lantus is a fantastic insulin for cats. Gold-standard if you will. Lantus is an insulin that craves consistency, meaning it likes AM and PM doses to be the same, not a lot of changes (unless needed), and it works best when you are as exact to 12 hrs apart as possible. Keep within a 15 minute window when shooting, so if you give insulin at 8 AM/PM, don't shoot earlier than 7:45 or later than 8:15. When needed, like for Daylight Savings Time or just life throwing off your schedule, you can do a max of 30 min early/late every 24 hours. If you do more, it will be like giving OVER full dose, if you do less, it's like you didn't give enough. Each cycle affects another. Lantus is also slow-acting, so you can test/feed/shoot at the same time, unlike fast-acting insulins that require food already on-board prior to shooting.

We increase in small increments, 0.25 units at a time. Reductions are earned when BG drops below 90. A cat rarely needs to stay on the same dose for more than a week ... their insulin needs are constantly changing depending on pancreatic activity (cats have the amazing ability to repair their beta cells, which leads to remission).

3. Home-testing

Like you, I bought a ReliOn meter and then was too scared to use it! I was so afraid to pricking my girl and all the fuss ... you'll find that being able to test is empowering though, it gives you control over this disease. No more vet visits, no more hypos. And glucose curves in fact, are inaccurate at the vet. A cat's BG can raise up to 200 points alone due to stress ... and a vet visit is stressful! It's also stupid-expensive. We can teach you to test, it's easy, though there is a learning curve when teaching the ears to bleed. They form capillaries after a while and then it's easy to get blood. Only a little bit, not a bloody show like it sounds like you had at the vet! In fact, most of our cats greatly enjoy test time! My girl and I had our little cuddle fest at test time, we loved it. Cats enjoy it mainly because testing time = treat time. If you are game, we are happy to teach you!

Hometesting Kit:

Hometesting Tips and Tricks
ReliOn Prime glucometer - $9
ReliOn Prime test strips - $18 for 100
ReliOn Lancets 26 G (or 28 if unavailable) - $1-2 for 100
ReliOn Lancing Device (optional) - $5
Travel-size Vaseline - $1
Neosporin Ointment + Pain Relief (ointment only, NOT cream) - $6
Cotton Pads (optional) - $2
Rice Sock or Pill bottle w/ warm water (optional) - homemade

You can use any kind of human meter, however the one listed above is Walmart brand and has the cheapest strips available. Same goes for lancets. You do not need a lancing device if you prefer to poke freehand, it's just personal preference. Vaseline is for helping the ear to bead up, neosporin is for helping the ear to heal/prevent bruising after the poke. Just a little dab of each. Cotton pads are optional, some people like to use them as backing so not to poke themselves, then to hold the ear a moment after to prevent bruising and stop bleeding. You can use a paper towel or your fingers if you prefer. Rice socks can be used in the microwave a few seconds to heat up and rub on the ear to draw the blood to the ear; it can also be used as backing when poking the ear. A pill bottle with warm water in it is another alternative to warm the ear, whichever thing you prefer to use.

Hypo Kit Supplies:

Hypo Kit Toolbox
Karo Syrup - $3
Ketone Test Strips (Ketostix) - $6
A few cans of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Marinated Morsels/Sliced in Gravy/Grilled in Gravy varieties - $0.60 each (these are your medium-carb cans)
A few cans of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers/Medleys Tuscany/Medleys Gravy in Sauce varieties - $0.60 each (these are your high-carb cans)

Medium Carb is 11-15%
High Carb is 16%+

You can also search through the catinfo chart while you're at the store to check which cans available are the ones you need. They don't HAVE to be Fancy Feast but they're fairly easy to find.
 
I've always fed my cats twice a day. They are hungry in the morning and again around 5 pm. I quit leaving food out all the time because one of my cats is really fat (on a low-fat wet food) and another will only eat dry food.
I would not recommend two meals a day for any cat, much less a diabetic. It's hard on the pancreas and can endanger the cat if they are on insulin.
 
Thank you both for the quick response, I am in Wisconsin and grabbed a ReliOn a few months ago, but have been nervous about using it. I took it to my old vet to show me and they made such a mess of it and there was so much blood that it really put me off. We had been using the fancy feast box from Costco before the vet advised the change so he has been on tiki for 2 weeks. He was at 3 units of glargin for months switched to 4 two weeks ago, animal hospital moved it to one twice daily for now after this incident. He nearly died last night, so thank you all for the information.

We can't keep food out, we just adopted a new kitty as we lost Nacho's sister over the summer. The new kitty eats everything, we have to be very careful as she took a goldfish cracker from my daughter's bowl and ate that clearly a stray with how she approaches food.
What a cutie!

You don’t have to leave food out, you can feed him so you see him eating or give him treats. There are also times feeders you can buy.

as for testing, most vets don’t know how to test the ear. Go figure they suck at it. The vet tech I went to to show me also made a mess. There are lots of great tips like warming up the ear with a sock filled with rice that you nuke just before, so the blood comes out easier. I like the ear warm to the touch, that’s when I know I’ll get a good size droplet out. You can also “milk” the ear to turn a tiny dot into a droplet. Like squeezing a pimple in a way. Always giving a treat immediately after to build positive association. Some of us, including me, sing to calm is both down. And you want to aim for the sweet spot. The ears will learn to bleed and new capilares will grow so it does get easier with time. As a first timer, I’d suggest getting lancets with larger gauge like a 28 or even 26 that makes bigger roles that bleed more.
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I agree with what everyone has advised you, feed Nacho more than twice a day.
Most of us feed small meals , like a tablespoon during each 12 hour cycle.

Do not feed Nacho 2 hours prior to testing him in the AM and PM tests,
After that please test him a couple of times during each 12 hour cycle to see how the insulin is working and how low it's dropping Nacho's BG.
This is the only way to keep him safe and to avoid a hypo
I'm sorry about what happened to him, scary as hell
You have come to the best place ever , the members here know more than most vets do about diabetes.
 
  • It would be helpful if you can set up your signature
  • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
    • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    • Add any other text, such as
    • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.


tap on your avatar where it says your name ,then hit profile page ,tap on that ,then go up to the very top, upper right hand side and tap on your name ,it will bring down a drop box, tap on signature, the signature will be under settings, tap on the signature then and you can start to add what I posted above, make sure you hit save ,
Welcome to the best place you could ever be and an awesome group of people
 
Hello Jellis! Since everyone has already given you everything you came here for...I will just say... WELCOME TO THE BEST SITE ON THIS PLANET to learn everything you need to know to keep you and your kitty SAFE while navigating this disease. ;):coffee:

WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY:bighug:

We LOVE questions so ask away!
Oh and btw. that spreadsheet? Will be the best thing you can do for your cat. It will track his journey and give anyone that helps you the information they need to give good solid direction with your next dose or move.

Your signature will give everyone at a glance information about kitty. Thats so we dont have to keep asking you the same questions over and over. Look at the bottom of everyones posts and you will see what I mean.
We look forward to getting to know you and your extra sweet kitty!:bighug:
jeanne:coffee:
 
Hello Jellis! Since everyone has already given you everything you came here for...I will just say... WELCOME TO THE BEST SITE ON THIS PLANET to learn everything you need to know to keep you and your kitty SAFE while navigating this disease. ;):coffee:

WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY:bighug:

We LOVE questions so ask away!
Oh and btw. that spreadsheet? Will be the best thing you can do for your cat. It will track his journey and give anyone that helps you the information they need to give good solid direction with your next dose or move.

Your signature will give everyone at a glance information about kitty. Thats so we dont have to keep asking you the same questions over and over. Look at the bottom of everyones posts and you will see what I mean.
We look forward to getting to know you and your extra sweet kitty!:bighug:
jeanne:coffee:
Jeanne, I have to say you have the best welcome posts I have ever seen,excellent!
Have a good day Jeanne :bighug::cat:
 
Thank you all, right now trying to space out the feeding as honestly, he does not want to eat all at once it is rather clear. The second clear thing is he prefers fancy feast to tiki so I think we will make it a permanent switch. Took him to the post-hospital vet visit today. He was at a 340, the vet wanted to up him to 2 units. This is the opposite of the hospital which wanted us to stay at one, so I am sticking with this and considering a vet change as his advice directly lead to Nacho's hospital visit.

I wanted to comment on insulin, back in Ohio I could get the kitty insulin here in Wisconsin everyone pushes glargine there is really been no other choice with any of the vets we have seen so far, not sure why this is the case.

Nacho is doing better, he is more or less back to normal. He still has his legs shaved after the hospital visit, or he would be exactly the kitty he was before this whole trip. I have been trying to talk with my wife and convince her about use both using the Relion. Nacho is incredibly laid back. He has never fought his insulin or tried to hide from it. Even with things like nail cutting I just put him on my lap and cut through as needed without any issue. He will likely be a very easy cat to test, I just need to get the courage and study up more.
 
My girl was like that. She made having diabetes easy, it's a huge blessing haha.

Everything you said sounds spot-on. I agree bumping back up is not a good idea, especially after a hypoglycemic event! Is he trying to win worst vet of the year or what :eek:
Also note that because he had a symptomatic hypo, he is going to be more sensitive to insulin, so going back to 2u is pretty stupid and dangerous.

I would go ahead and get your spreadsheet set up if you have time, so it's ready when you start testing. Look at the advice from above to get you going ... it will help that Nacho is laid-back. We can walk you through it if you need as well. I would not increase the dose at ALL until you're testing, considering his situation. Very happy to hear he's feeling better. :)

I find with cats, "less is more" when it comes to restraining them ... if Nacho is chill just sitting in your lap while you test, do that. No need to pin him down or anything. Desensitize his ears by rubbing/handling them throughout the day, give treats every time. When you start to try to get a test, don't be discouraged if it takes a few tries. It took me a few days to do it successfully each time. If you try several times and aren't getting anywhere, give him a treat and take a break, try again later. No need for you both to be nervous and stressed.
 
Love me a good Nacho!:bighug:
Desensitize his ears by rubbing/handling them throughout the day, give treats every time. When you start to try to get a test, don't be discouraged if it takes a few tries. It took me a few days to do it successfully each time. If you try several times and aren't getting anywhere, give him a treat and take a break, try again later. No need for you both to be nervous and stressed.

This WORKS!
 
Hi there,

Took him to the post-hospital vet visit today. He was at a 340, the vet wanted to up him to 2 units. This is the opposite of the hospital which wanted us to stay at one, so I am sticking with this and considering a vet change as his advice directly lead to Nacho's hospital visit.
I am so sorry to hear about what Nacho and yourself have been through as a result of the extraordinarily bad advice given to you by a vet in whom you had placed your trust. As others have commented above, increasing insulin at the same time as reducing carb load is absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm so glad that the hospital vets retrieved the situation.

I mean no disrespect to your vet with what I say next. They may be excellent at treating other conditions but I worry about how much of a handle they have on feline diabetes. My suggestion to you is to seriously consider registering Nacho with a different vet who is more knowledgeable about FD. There is helpful information in the following FAQ post:

Vet Interview/Screening Topics and Checklist

Thank God Nacho's OK.

(((Nacho)))


Mogs
.
 
26 gauge is best for getting started, 28 if 26 is not in stock. I have the whole"shopping list" above in an older comment. :) It's normal to be nervous but it's scarier for the owner than the cat!
 
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You can go to the top right and find your sign on name to find "signature". Click there and a new box will pop up for you to enter the information like:

Your name/Cat's name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health problems or meds?.....then hit "save".

When you get your spreadsheet done, you'll add the link to it into your Signature
 

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This is what she said about his weight
Susan Fentz said: in # 32
I have been learning about diet - and feeding times.
Those are helping. He is just so ravenous. I'm searching
for a better vet, but I've already been looking for several
years (with different cats).

It made my boy get very very skinny.
Even on three cans, he is down to 8 lbs from 12. That's a lot of weight for a cat.
I know I spoiled him. I've been trying to get him to lose weight since
February 2019.
I found out he was diabetic early in 2020. There is no way he could survive on 2 cans of FF
a day.
.He already is so thin. He has 3 cans a day and I can see his spinal chord. I see his rib cage.
Chloe was down to 7.5 lbs. when she was diagnosed and went up to 12 lbs. a year later.
 
I quit leaving food out all the time because one of my cats is really fat (on a low-fat wet food) and another will only eat dry food.
Amending: I put Chloe's food on the bed where the other cats won't get it. Also, I have 2 of those toys where I put dry food in them and the cats have to roll them around to get the food out. Besides getting exercise, Chico can't gobble his food too fast and then vomit it up.
 
Thank you all, right now trying to space out the feeding as honestly, he does not want to eat all at once it is rather clear. The second clear thing is he prefers fancy feast to tiki so I think we will make it a permanent switch. Took him to the post-hospital vet visit today. He was at a 340, the vet wanted to up him to 2 units. This is the opposite of the hospital which wanted us to stay at one, so I am sticking with this and considering a vet change as his advice directly lead to Nacho's hospital visit.

I wanted to comment on insulin, back in Ohio I could get the kitty insulin here in Wisconsin everyone pushes glargine there is really been no other choice with any of the vets we have seen so far, not sure why this is the case.

Nacho is doing better, he is more or less back to normal. He still has his legs shaved after the hospital visit, or he would be exactly the kitty he was before this whole trip. I have been trying to talk with my wife and convince her about use both using the Relion. Nacho is incredibly laid back. He has never fought his insulin or tried to hide from it. Even with things like nail cutting I just put him on my lap and cut through as needed without any issue. He will likely be a very easy cat to test, I just need to get the courage and study up more.

I am no expert. However, I did find that pumpkins it best when he got his fancy feast spread eight hours apart. I would hate to go on prescription food. I remember I had a cat that had to have prescription food and he would not eat it. Pumpkin is eating fancy feast all his life. I found that by spacing out his meals, his glucose numbers were better. The litter box had less urine. That’s what I use for my gauge because I do not know how to take readings. If I see a river in the litter box there is a problem.
 
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