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RaniaHaddadin

Member Since 2014
Hi al,

A friend of mine on facebook suggested that I join this board. My name is Rania, I live in NoCal. I am a pet mom to two cats and 6 chickens. Zayt (male), is 7 and Zaytoona (female) is 4.

This past Saturday I took Zayt and Zaytoona to the vet for their annual exam. Zaytoona is as healthy as can be but Zayt was questionable, he lost 2.5 pounds in a year and half and he lost some muscle mass around his spine. They took blood from him and I learned yesterday that he's diabetic. I take him back in tomorrow so they can do a glucose curve on him and then start him on insulin.

I know that I have to change his diet, does anyone have any suggestions on what kind of food I can start giving him. He eats mostly dry, he never had a taste for wet food. Also, 4 years ago he was diagnosed with FLUTD so I would need something that would be low in ash.

I am looking forward in learning from this board.

Thank you all in advance for you suggestions/feed back.

Rania
 
Welcome Rania and kitty's,

Most everyone here on this forum feed their kitty's either Fancy Feast Classic pate flavors or Friskies Classic pate wet food. Any flavor that is 10% or less in carbs. There is a food chart that we go by that has the carb %s on the website catinfo.org.

Dry food is not recommended here (except for low carb ones; EVO, Young Again and Wysong Epigen) because the carb % are way too high.

I recommend going to the website, catinfo.org and reading some of the articles.

There's a real good one titled, Transitioning Your Dry Food Addict to Wet Food. I printed it off.

My grandkitty, Hank, (who I've been taking care of now since 2 months after he was diagnosed with diabetes) was a dry food addict. It took me 2 months to get him off of the dry stuff! My civie, Hank's cousin, Oscar, wasn't as hard as it only took him a couple of weeks.

With Oscar I put some dry in a baggie a took a hammer to it to make it into crumbs. Then I sprinkled it on the wet. When Oscar was good and eating it, I cut the crumbs back. Just make sure you let this process of switching take about a week. Starting with a 20-25% new food to old food ratio. That way there's less tummy upset and diarrhea.

Hank was very stubborn!! I finally thought of squishing his favorite high carb soft treat pieces up and sprinkling it onto the wet food and...TaDa!
I think that once they get a taste, then they love it! Hank is 11 years old and had never tried the wet before.

Before going to the vet tomorrow, I recommend reading as much as you can about diabetes in cats, watching some Youtube videos on home testing the blood sugar of cats and try not to worry!

I've been where you are and I'm here to say it does get easier with time and patience.

Do you know that cats can go into diabetes remission? Yep, sometimes with only a change in their diet. Other times with diet change and the help of a good insulin.

Ok, if you have any other questions, just ask away!

Good luck, you'll do fine.

Kimmie
 
Welcome to FDMB,

A couple of quick questions...... 1) did your vet say what the bg level was? 2) Have all other medical issues been cleared? 3)What type of insulin is your vet recommending?

Like mentioned already, most here feed fancy feast pates or friskie pates.

Here is a list of the recommended foods:
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

As for the ash content , I would suggest finding a few foods you think your interested in and then maybe emailing the company to find out the percentage of ash.

We also STRONGLY urge you to home test and you can use a cheap human meter, most here use the relion brand from walmart. The meter is cheap as well as the test stripes. It is very important to home test while giving insulin and changing diet. Diet alone can drastically drop bg.

Diabetes is treatable, and manageable. It can be very overwhelming but you will get the hang of it. I was so overwhelmed and scared, but with all the info here I became confident quickly....I bashed heads with my vet about Hidey's treatment but kept at it with what I felt was right for him, and within 2 months of diet change, insulin, and strict testing he was in remission. Hidey has been diet controlled now for 9 months.
 
Hi there, thank you so much for your replies.

The vet said his bg was at 500. the other issue he has is FLUTD. His litter mate passed away two years ago from cardiomyopathy. Right after he passed, I had them do an ultrasound on him to make sure his heart is ok and it was. I plan on getting another one done next year.

As for food, I give him Tiki cat that has 2 grams of carbs, is that good?

When you say they can go into remission what do you mean by that? would insulin shots still be needed when they are in remission?

I'm not near a walmart, but I ordered the bayer contour. When checking his blood would I have to do it in the morning and at night? What should his glucose level be at? What's the normal range in cats?
 
Tiki is purrrrrfect. Don't ask im in a mood today lol Anyways yes Tiki is good just avoid the rice ones, and I don't know where you get them but I used to feed Tiki and the cheapest I ever found was chewy.com (excellent customer service!)

Remission is where they no longer need insulin. It is possible with cats and many have done it including Hidey. Hidey was only on insulin for 2 months, and one of them was a insulin that is not recommended (vetsulin)

The best types of insulin is Prozinc, PZI, lantus, and levemir. I had Hidey on Prozinc.

I would suggest reading up on the different types and see which one you think would be best for you. I picked prozinc because of it NOT being a depot insulin. I was worried I wouldnt be able to do the 12 & 12 (hours) With depots its pretty important to stick to the 12hrs as CLOSELY as possible, and also you have to stick with the same dosage in the A.M. & P.M.

Contour is fine from what I've read.

With testing it is recommended to test before EVERY shot because you never know what their bg could be. If its too low you can send them into hypo and it can kill. It is also suggested to get a mid cycle test in (usually 6 hrs after shot) to see how low the bg gets. That way you know how well the insulin is working, of course it is harder to get mid cycle numbers because of daily life but WHEN possible it is a good idea.

Kitty treats....testing goes a lot easier with kitty treats...mainly freeze dried meats. My kitties LOVE these....
http://www.amazon.com/Halo--Littles-Nat ... ed+chicken

And don't be discouraged with the 500, Hidey was in the low 600's when he was diagnosed. Check out the link in my signature line to see his bg sheet it shows how he lowered over time with insulin and diet change....You'll also notice in the notes I used to feed him Tiki. I stopped because he was having a hard time eating the shreds due to 5 missing teeth. Someone suggested me sticking it in the food processor, and I'm still thinking of trying that when I have to buy more food because they loved their Tiki.
 
Oh good. He loves Tike, in fact both of them do. My vet prescribed Lantus, which I will be picking up after work today. I'm not going to give him anything until I know what they say tomorrow.

I have another question, when you check the bg before giving insulin and if the numbers are with in a the range, I wouldn't have to give him a shot right? Should I also check his sugar level before he eats or after?
 
We advise newbies no shoot for 200 or less. Here is a reference chart for bg ranges from BJM
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oI_ ... QD2JU/edit

Lantus is a good insulin. I would recommend joining the Lantus support group on here. If the numbers are 200 or below we general advise not to give a shot but with Lantus its slightly different since its a depot insulin so I would pop over there and introduce yourself. I would also advise to start low. A lot of vets seem to set a higher dosage because of the bg results there, bg rises from stress so the # you get at the vet, usually isnt the same at home.

Also, I know you said your feeding Tiki which is great! But are you feeding dry as well?

Another note....Lantus can be expensive from what I hear, If the price is an issue Ive read that you can get a prescription for 1 single lantus pen.

You want to check his BG before food, you want to get a number that is not influenced by food. Have you read the tips for testing yet?
 
Thanks I'll join that groups.

I reviewed some items but plan on reading more when I get home from work.

Thanks so much for the link. I'll check it out.

I am feeding him dry food as well. He's on Royal canin urinary s/o which I will need to change. My vet recommended hills DM as that has a urinary defense as well and is low glycemic
 
Dry food really is not recommended at all, but if it is a MUST the only diabetic friendly ones are Young again zero carb (my cats get this but only 1 TBS each in the morning :oops: ) its 5% carbs, Stella & Chewys freeze dried (1% carbs I THINK) Wysung Epigen (not sure on the %) and EVO cat & kitten (12% carbs)

The DM dry is too high of carbs :sad: If your concerned about urinary problems taking the dry away altogether is the best option. Take a peek at catinfo.org theres tons of great info....I know so much to read and weed through with so little time.
 
I have 3 cats and feed them 18 oz total, but the main thing you want to look at is calories. Heres the formula for how much to feed.

The general formula is [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70, so if your cat's best weight is 12lbs, it'd be [13.6 X 12 pounds] + 70 = 233 calories.
 
Hello and welcome. I have one diabetic cat and one with FLUTD. I feed them both the same food. You might want to read the Catinfo page on Urinary Tract health. Low ash is old school thinking. You want to feed low carb, low phosphorus wet food. or raw The link to the food list given previously also has the phosphorus numbers on it. Best to have something below 250. Unfortunately most Fancy Feast and Friskies are too high in phosphorus, but Friskies does have a Special Diet line that is good. Actually, so are most of the Tiki Cat except a few of them. Check the 4th column on the food chart. Other studies have shown that glucosamine may be beneficial for FLUTD cats. I feed my FLUTD guy Cosequin daily.

Another shopping resource for strips, syringes and lancets is ADW. If you go to the Shopping Page from this forum and go to American Diabetes Wholesale or ADW from there, the site gets a percentage which helps run the website.

I am glad you are getting Lantus, that's a good insulin for cats. You'll also want to test somewhere mid cycle, or in between the two shots as that will be the low point (nadir). We figure out how to dose Lantus based on how low the blood sugar gets with that dose. By the way, once you are home testing, you'll be able to do curves at home, which should save quite a bit of money. :-D
 
Thank you all, there is so much to learn...

i picked up the prescription today and can not believe how expense one vial is...
 
Good Morning,

In 15 minutes i'm taking my little boy to the vet for the glucose curve. I am so nervous and scared for him. I know he will be fine, but it's the protective mother in me I guess.

Thank you all in advance for your support.

Rania
 
Hi. I'd suggest ordering your Lantus from Canada as its a LOT cheaper. Can someone please post the link for Marks?

The Start Low Go Slow protocol can be found in the Relaxed Lantus group under the sticky "Don't Go Too Fast With the Insulin". I found that protocol working well with my little furball.

EBay is also an excellent resource for the strips. Just make sure they post the expiry date.

Oh and do the next curves yourself at home. Will save you $$$ than if your vet does them. It's also more accurate as your kitty will be less stressed at home. Stress increases their BG.

Juliet and Silver
 
Thank you. I definitely plan on doing the next curve at home.

I would love the links to where i can get the lantus cheaper. I can't believe it was 319.69
 
I wrote an introduction but it didn't show up so I am doing a short one in case there is a time lapse between posting and showing.

I am Mom to a newly diagnosed diabetic (2 weeks ago) 14 year old male Tuxedo or Tuxie as I usually call him.

Increased drinking and urination, less activity and having trouble jumping were the main symptoms I saw. The vet did full blood work, urinalysis and T4. All were within normal ranges exept glucose 22 (Canada) 400 (US) and glucose in the urine. No ketones were detected.

He is on Lantus 1 unit twice a day. The vet will be doing a glucose curve tomorrow. I bought an AlphaTracker but I am still having some trouble doing the test without stressing him. He stresses very easily!!! I just bought ketodiastix to check his ketones and urine glucose.

Both his sister and him on a good home-made diet for the last almost 8 years. The vet said to stick with the food I make since it is totally good for a diabetic cat ( or normal cat). Tuxie tended to be slightly overweight, but not anywhere near obese. He currently weighs 12 lbs and it looks good on him.

I came across this forum in my relentless search for information on diabetes. I look forward to reading all the information and having a support group to help me in this new road Tuxie and I am travelling.

Thank you!!
 
Hi and welcome to the forum Tuxedo Mom.

You'll find a tonne of helpful information on here as well as a bunch of crazy cat people who are in the same boat as you and can help.

Can I ask you to start your own thread (or condo as they are called here) as we don't want to hijack Rania's condo.

That would be great.

Juliet and Silver
 
The vet called me and told me zayt is doing well, he didn't give me any numbers on his sugar levvel. I am scheduled to go get him and speak to the vet at 630.
 
Sorry for posting on someone else's thread..I thought I started a new one...I guess I am lost on where to go...Sorry
 
No worries.

I've been doing some research on the wet food that I give my cats. Not only is it low in carbs it's low in phosphorous so he wk t be at risk in having a urinary tract infections.

I also have a bag of blue wilderness high protein grain free food and the carbs that are in it is sweet potatoes, pease and potatoes would that be a good food to give more like treats instead of full meals. Someone mentioned (don't remember who) that they give a tablespoon of EVO.
 
the tablespoon comment sounds like me, but it is young again zero carb (5% carbs)

Hopefully someone with better nutrition info will chime in, but I would have to say no on the blue buffalo even as a treat....sadly the day of easy temptation and friskie treats are gone.

I used to feed blue buffalo weight control thinking high protein yayyyyy, only to gain weight and a diagnosis of diabetes.


So how'd everything go at the vet?
 
Chris, thank you. I will definitely have to check it out. I'm hoping and praying that he will go into remission. I just need to be on top of monitoring his bg.

Dirty birt soaps. Thank for the feed back on the dry food. I will stop giving him that. I use to feed him EVO, but that gave him a UTI so I changed out of it. The vet suggest the Hill DM but there's so many by products in it. I may have to start transitioning both of them to wet food only. I know with dry, the packaging would say that it would promote urinary health, would/should I see the same thing on wet food?

As for the vet, thins went well. When they checked his bg first in the morning, it was at 478 a couple of hours later and after they gave me the insulin it went to 375, it went up a little after that, the last reading came in at 277. He told me to give him 2 units once a day. I did mention that I got the bayer contour glucometer and he didn't think it would read his blood correctly. So once it comes I'm going to the vet and I'm oing to be used as a guinea pig. They are going to test my blood on the one they used for animals and the bayer and compare the readings. From the reading i did on testing, I was under impression that there's not real difference between a glucometer used for cats and humans, is that true?
 
I completely forgot to add when I asked my vet about blood testing he said he never heard of using the ear to draw blood. He suggested that I use his paws, would that work??
 
You can use the paw pad, but a lot of us worry about infection from the litter box...but use what you need to as long as it works! There are lots of videos on YouTube of ear testing and a few that show paw pad testing. Just search for "How to test a cat's blood glucose"

You can probably "train" him to look forward to his tests though. Most cats don't like having their ears fooled with, so the trick is to recondition them. Decide where you'd like to do your testing. Pick one place...on a counter, table, a particular place on the floor, it really doesn't matter. As many times a day as you can, take him there, give his ears a rub and then give him a special treat. A lot of our cats like freeze dried chicken, but you can use anything that he really loves (as long as it's low carb)....after awhile, he'll be looking forward to being in his "testing spot" and not paying any attention to what you're doing with his ears....He just wants his treat!! We hear it all the time "My cat will never let me do that!!"..2 weeks later they're coming to their testing spot when you open the meter case....lol

As for the "promotes urinary health" claims....most of them are useless and just there to get us humans to buy it. We have a lot of cats with kidney problems here (it kind of comes along with diabetes a lot of times) and the key to keeping healthy kidneys and bladder is water! By putting him onto canned food, he's going to be getting a lot more water and you can even add a little extra to the food to help get even more into him.

Next, Lantus does best when given every 12 hours, not once a day. There's a formula for the starting dose too that's based on weight. The formula is 0.25 unit per kg of the cat's ideal weight but if kitty is underweight, the formula frequently used is 0.25 unit per kg of kitty's actual weight

How much does he weigh? If you don't know, they should have weighed him at the vet

On glucometers...the vast majority of us use human glucometers and our kitties are doing fine. The biggest difference between human and pet glucometers is the price of the strips! The AlphaTrak that most vets want us to use can cost $1 PER strip...or more! When you're testing at least 4 times a day, that's over $120 a month in just strips! Our protocols take into consideration the small difference between the human and pet meters, so use the meter you can afford to use!

Keep asking questions! The people here are wonderful about helping!

Edited to add...if your vet is interested, the latest info on the management of diabetic cats is here: STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - TIGHT REGULATION PROTOCOL Look just a little ways down the page to the "Management of Diabetic cats with long acting insulins"..it's a .pdf file.
 
I did look up some videos on how to test a cat using the ear. It seems simple enough. The only thing is that I don't have a micorwave to heat up the sock of rice so I will just use a warm wash cloth. Zayt loves his ears to be rubbed, so I don't think it will be a problem. I'm going to try today (assuming I get the meter today) after I test the system with the ones at the vet. The test is going to be done on me.

Back to food. Zayt is on the urinary s/o and I probably have less than a half a bag left. I want to transition him to wet food but I also don't want to throw away the urinary s/o as it so expensive. Would giving him less dry and more wet work?
 
oops, I forgot to answer the question about his weight. I weighed him this morning and he's slightly over 10 pounds. It was like 10.6 I think. I carried him and got on the scale and than weighed myself without carrying him. he's sleeping now I'll try to weigh him again later.
 
At 10.6lbs the starting dose is .25u x 4.8 kgs=1.2u...so we'd probably suggest starting him at 1 unit every 12 hours. It's always safer to go up slowly. Once the insulin is in, you can't take it out again

I'd bet that the Royal Canin S.O. can be returned for your money back. Pretty much all those foods have a money back guarantee .....just say your cat won't eat it anymore.
 
I already gave him two units this morning. I'll start the one unit twice a day tomorrow. I don't want to give him to much insulin. That is my biggest fear.

I am so happy and feel so blessed that my boss allowed me to work from home the rest of the week.

Oh and as soon as I get the glucometer, i'm going straight to the vet so I can check his blood glucose today.
 
Do you have a hypo kit put together?

you should have a few cans of high carb food (we like the "Gravy Lovers" Fancy Feasts) because you can "squeeze" the gravy out and just give them that. The carbs are in the gravy anyway and if they go too low it'll bring them up without filling them up...In case they drop again and you need them to eat more.

Some Karo, honey or syrup is important too

A spare box of strips is always a good idea as well as a spare meter (when and if you can get one) just because we've found that when we NEED our meter's the most is when their batteries die or for some reason they quit working, so a spare is a nice thing to have

When you start getting some tests(or get the numbers your vet already got) it's important to get our spreadsheet going. It's one of the most important tools in the sugardance. Here's directions on how to get a spreadsheet and link in your signature

If you have trouble with the spreadsheet, let us know! We can help you get it set up if it won't play nice with you!
 
Kind of, now that I know I should :) I do have Karo Honey and Syrup and I'll pick up some high carb foods for emergencies.

I saw the spreadsheet and sent it to myself. Once I get the glucometer I will start tracking his bg. I don't remember all the numbers from the tests they did yesterday. 3 sets sticks to me but I can ask my vet to send it to me.

I am bummed that I didn't get the glucometer yet. I called the place this morning and it was shipped on Monday. UPS (assuming that the carrier) usually delivers late in my neighborhood. I'm hoping it will come tonight.
 
I'm out of town, and have limited internet access, so sorry for not getting back to you sooner

If you live in the US, you can get a great glucometer from WalMart...The Relion Confirm or Micro are both great meters and the strips are affordable at $36 for 100 (you can also get strips from ADW online, but being able to get them at Walmart in the middle of the night IF necessary is great!)
 
No worries at all.

I ordered the Bayer contoir which should be here by Tuesday. I do plan on getting another but right now things are tight. The cost of the vet bills and insulin set me back some.
 
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