new to site, need help finding economic insulin

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jason

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Hi All!

New to the site:) My 7 yr old male cat was diagnosed with diabetes last November. We have been struggling to get him to a maintenance level ever since. I'm sure you all know how costly this is. Our vet is great and is helping as much as possible.

However, we are closing in on having him regulated. He currently receives 2 doses a day, 5 units each. I have a feeling he won't be completely regulated until 6 or 7 units a day. we are currently using Prozinc, and the 40ML bottle (400 units) lasts just a bit over a month, and costs $90 a pop.

With one income and a new baby due in August, our funds are becoming very tight. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find a economic alternative? i have read that some folks get their insulin from Walmart or overseas. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!
 
Hi Jason and welcome! I don't have any experience with Prozinc, our cat mocha used lantus, which is available from wal mart or from overseas. The best way to purchase lantus or levemir (both human insulin's) is in a 5 pack of 3ml pens. The "average" price at most wal marts are around $225.00 and from oversea's or from Canada you can get a 5 pack of 3ml pens for around $110.00, shipped. Some people are able to use the lantus/levemir pens right down to the last drop. With mocha, we changed her pens out around once a month, making the 5 pack last five months, so about $22.00 a month when ordered from Canada.

I hope that helps, but I am sure others will be here soon to welcome you and get to know you guys :-D
 
Thanks! i will have to look into Lantus and speak with my vet about it.

Do you need an importation license to order from Canada? i believe i read something like that...

otherwise, do you order online then? if so, what is the URL?

thanks!
 
You've come to the right place for advice.

Prozinc is a pets only insulin, so not available at Walmart.

Many of us use human insulins for our diabetic kitties.

Lantus and Levemir are good insulins (2 shots per day). Levemir lasts a bit longer than Lantus. (manufacturer guarantee of 42 days vs 28 days - we can usually use longer before it goes bad)

I use Levemir and really like it. I get it from Canada (I live in Michigan) for about $120 per 5-pack of 3ml pen cartridges. This lasts nearly a year because each cartridge is good for ~2 months or a bit more. There was a $25 coupon for Levemir flexpens in last Sunday's "Parade Magazine" newspaper insert.

That is a pretty big dose of insulin -- what are you feeding your kitty?

You can reduce the amount of insulin needed if you change diet to low carbohydrate (grain free) canned food. Check out www.catinfo.org and "Janet & Binky's Food Charts" for more information about Feline Nutrition and carb content of many cat foods. (the label on the can doesn't have enough info -- the food charts are compiled over years of requesting info from the manufacturers).

One BIG caution about food change -- it can have an IMMEDIATE affect on your kitty's insulin needs. IE -- Please learn how to test blood sugar at home, and test every day. If you change food and do not change insulin dose, you could send your cat into seizures or coma - called HYPOGLYCEMIA (read about it and how to treat).

Request a "NEWBIE KIT" which includes a glucometer and some supplies to get you started.

We prick the edge of the cat's ear for a tiny blood sample to check blood sugar level before every injection and mid cycle when possible. We keep records of this and many post online here in Google spreadsheets.

To order from Canada, you just need to fax your prescription (that you ask your vet to write for you -- specify the 5-pack of 3ml pens and request refills)

If you go to SUPPLY CLOSET forum, I think there is a post about ordering from Canada including links.
 
Jason, Welcome!

The answers above refer to Lantus and Levemir - human insulins available thru pharmacies, Walmart and overseas.

ProZinc is fairly new and available only thru vets. If your vet will switch your insulin to one of the other insulins, your cost for insulin and for syringes will go down.

If you hometest and send your vet you log of hometest, you will save even more money. You can use a human glucometer (most of us due). Relion from Walmart works fine.

Hope this helps.

Claudia
 
Economically I would highly encourage looking in to Levemir. Depending on the dose it can be more economical than Lantus at per month cost for the 5 flexpen pack.

Others have raised the issue of the large dose of prozinc. Is he still experiencing increased water drinking and peeing copious amounts? Then he is not regulated. However more insulin does not mean regulation! In fact the opposite is often true, unless the cat is suffering with other ailments which make regulation more difficult and require more insulin, such as Acromegaly.

Diet plays a huge part in diabetes management, a low carb diet is best, just like for human diabetics.

But if you switch to lower carb foods please lower the insulin dose. You may think that raising the insulin dose would be enough without a change in diet, but it is frequently the change in diet which lowers their insulin need and leads to regulation, even remission, not simply more insulin.

Using less insulin would also lower your cost. The reason I suggest Levemir is that on a dose of 1U twice daily 1 flexpen will absolutely last 3 months or longer if kept refrigerated. A 5 pack of pens will last 15 months or more, at an average cost of $200, that's a little over $13 per month for insulin. Compared to the $90 you're paying for Prozinc, it's a no-brainer. You also must use regular human insulin U100 syringes with Levemir, which would save money over the U40 syringes you probably are paying a lot for through your vet.

Hope that helps. Levemir is an insulin humans use, so you would need a prescription from your vet to take to a regular pharmacy, or you can order it online from Canada (with a prescription still). You could call around to local pharmacies and price compare.

Levemir is not widely known about in the veterinary community. It may take some research for your vet to find out more info and feel comfortable prescribing it. I recommend they call the University of Illinois vet school for info, as they will probably want a source other than "the internet." That's what my vet did over 3 years ago and she received enough info about it from them to prescribe it for us. I believe they've done more work with it since then so should be able to provide what your vet needs to know.
 
Wow, this is GREAT info!

We are currently feeding him the science diet MD (dry). I am going to do some research on the provided sites, as i have been thinking about maybe trying to make the low-carb food for him.

I really appreciate this info! last month he was having some really bad nueropothy (sp?) and he was struggling to walk, so it was pretty heart-breaking. this last dosage increase has improved that very much!

I will read up and get a plan going and keep you all posted:)

thanks,
Jason
 
Hometesting should save you a bundle of $$$$ and be very important for your kitties health. If you are not currently testing check out the Newbie Kit link in this post below my name.
Lori
 
jason said:
Wow, this is GREAT info!

We are currently feeding him the science diet MD (dry). I am going to do some research on the provided sites, as i have been thinking about maybe trying to make the low-carb food for him.

I really appreciate this info! last month he was having some really bad nueropothy (sp?) and he was struggling to walk, so it was pretty heart-breaking. this last dosage increase has improved that very much!

I will read up and get a plan going and keep you all posted:)

thanks,
Jason
Click to expand...


Changing to a wet food diet will definitely help. However as Vicki said, do not change the diet without lowering the insulin dose. This is extremely important. Right now the dry food may be the only thing that is keeping your cat from becoming hypoglocymic, which can be deadly.

Hometesting will also help lower the cost by eliminating unnecessary trips to the vet just for testing. Also, by testing at home, you will learn to be able to determine which dose is optimal for regulating your cat's diabetes.

You also do not need to feed prescription food - no matter what your vet may tell you. Many of us feed our cats either Friskies or Fancy Feast canned foods and they do quite well on that diet. Also, if you have more than one cat, a canned food diet will benefit all of them.
 
Hi Everyone!
I am still doing a lot of reading, but i'm amazed that i didn't find this site and all of you helpful people the first time around. I am not going to make any changes until i receive the 'newbie kit' that i just requested. Thank you so much for making this information available as well as the 'newbie kit'!

Once i receive the kit, i will begin testing at home right away. I'm confident that the reading i am working on will help me follow the best path to transfer my diabetic cat (along with the other two cats:)) to a wet-food low carb only diet. And if i have any questions, im sure the responses here will be just as helpful as they have been so far.

thanks again and keep the info coming! :)
 
While you are waiting for the kit, I would get her prepared. Pick a spot where you are going to test her - maybe put down a blanket or towel. Start messing with her ears, heating them up with the rice sack, give treats and lots of praise. Spend a couple minutes there several times a day so when you get the meter, you and she will be ready to go.
 
Hi and welcome. You've already got great advice but I will add there is one other insulin if you can't get the Lantus or Levemir, however, I do highly prefer the Lantus or Levemir over this other one. There's a compounded PZI insulin from BCP in TX.

You're not going to get the nice, flat, comfortable numbers that many of our cats prefer, but it's still a decent insulin. Your vet can ask for a free sample, the website has a link at the bottom for vets.

http://www.bcpvetpharm.com/products_bovine.htm

I used BCP PZI for years and really do prefer Lantus/Lev over this, but I wanted to let you know about this one, just in case.
 
Jason, I have an excellent meter for you...and it comes with 50 strips. will send all the other goodies too and everything you need to start testing immediatly.
Thing is, it's a meter I have not seen strips for sale on.
It's called ArkRay Glucocard 01
I wonder who here may have ever used this?
You would do well to see if you can find your future strips at the commonly sold stores (walmart, cvs, target) or if they are sold on ebay (alot of us buy our strips on ebay)
It will go out in the morning unless you say otherwise.
Anyone use this meter?????

Lori
and Tom
 
jason said:
Thanks! i will have to look into Lantus and speak with my vet about it.
Click to expand...


Lantus is a U100 insulin so you must use U100 insulin syringes.

If you are uisng U40 insulin syringes with ProZinc, then you cannot use these for Lantus because you will not get the correct amount of insulin. U40 and U100 are two different insulin strengths.

From http://felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm:

A vial of insulin is a combination of insulin hormone and a sterile liquid, called the diluent. The concentration of the insulin to the diluent determines its strength.

Though U-100 insulin is the most common, insulin may be ordered in a variety of strengths, such as U-40. The "U" value of insulin indicates its strength - the number reflects the number of active insulin units in each mL of liquid. You could think of 100 "units" as 100 tiny pieces of insulin floating in each mL of diluent.

U-100 will have 100 units per mL, and U-40 has 40 units per mL. This means that U-100 has 2.5 times the amount of active insulin per mL, therefore 2.5 times as strong.

The ideal U100 insulin syringes to use with Lantus are 3/10 cc with half unit markings (that is, markings for every 0.5 units). There are several brands out there: Relion, BD, Monoject, GNP, etc. Needle length and gauge is your preference.


jason said:
Do you need an importation license to order from Canada? i believe i read something like that...
Click to expand...


No, you don't need anything special to order Lantus from Canada. All you need is a prescription which your vet can fax over.

jason said:
otherwise, do you order online then? if so, what is the URL?
Click to expand...

There are several online Canadian pharmacies members here use. See this thread for recommendations: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11530

Frugal Feline Diabetes tips: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/frugal.html
 
The only reasonably priced thing offered by my vet was the insulin. PZI 100 compounded in Baltimore. Original price 46.46 but vet mark-up made it $69.99. Good for lots more shots because it's not as diluted - I think the paperwork said something like 10,000 units.
 
Just to reassure you about the home glucose testing...my cat has never minded me poking his ears for the tests. Sometimes he's curled up in his basket taking a nap when I want to test him and he will just open one eye and then ignore me as I poke his little ear and get the blood I need. There must not be a lot of nerve endings in their ears or someting!! Also, Walmart has a brand of meter called the ReliOn, either the micro or the compact. They only cost $9 and a pack of 20 test strips only costs $9. It might be worth it for you to get this before your Newbie kit arrives so you can begin testing immediately. The most important thing about testing is MAKE SURE THE EAR IS WARM. If their ear isn't warm, you will end up poking them multiple times trying to get a drop of blood. If their ear is nice and warm, you barely have to poke and the blood just bubbles up!! :lol: I filled an old sock with about a cup of uncooked oatmeal (a lot of people use uncooked rice) and tied the top of the sock closed. You put that in the microwave for about 30 seconds (feel it when it comes out to see if its too hot or not warm enough) and then hold it to the side of the cat's head, covering the ear. It will warm it right up and make the blood flow much easier. My kitty is on Lantus and all the research I've done says it is the best, though I've heard very good things about Levemir also. I'm getting ready to place an order with an online Canadian pharmacy for my next order of insulin, getting the pens this time because it will last so much longer and be much more cost effective. There are specific forums here on this board for all the different types of insulin so you can get help for the specific type of insulin you end up using. Good luck!!!! And congratulations on the coming of your new baby!!!
 
you mentioned neuropathy - you need to get methyl B12 to help with that.

here is the one I used and recommend: http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Vitamin-B-1 ... lcobalamin

yes, it's a little pricey, but it doesn't contain any sugar or fruit flavors and you empty one capsule into wet food daily, so it's easy to use and if you have other cats no worries about them eating the stuff as they will pee out what their bodies don't need.
 
Thanks everyone for the continued wealth of knowledge!

Lori - I am very grateful for the meter, and it looks like i can find test strips on Amazon for ~17$ for 50, so that should work out great!

For those who don't make their own food, do you have brand preference for low-carb wet food? I think once i start home testing, i will begin the change over to wet food and im not sure if im quite ready to begin making my own yet!

thanks!
Jason
 
Personally here I feed all 11 just good old fashioned Friskies pate-style flavors, since only one cat is diabetic and they all have to eat what he eats, this was one brand they could all agree on. With 11 it can be a real chore to get everyone to agree on what is edible.


Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
jason said:
For those who don't make their own food, do you have brand preference for low-carb wet food? I think once i start home testing, i will begin the change over to wet food and im not sure if im quite ready to begin making my own yet!
Click to expand...

You can buy commerical raw food :smile: Nature's Variety makes a grain-free raw. There's a coupon for a free trial sized bag over in the Supply Closet: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42582 There are other grain-free raw food brands you can buy.

I fed my diabetic EVO, Nature's Variety Instinct, GO! Natural, SOrganics (I don't think this brand is available any more), ProPlan (two of the fish varities as occasional meals), and Merrick B.G (at the time it was only the 100% supplemental food ones and those were given as occasional treats).

Fancy Feast and Friskies and other inexpensive brands are just as good. My cat had a finicky expensive palate :roll: The general rule of thumb is to feed any low carb canned food that your cat likes (most important) and you can afford and can find in the local stores.
 
Hi Everyone!

I received the glucose meter today, and when i got home from work tried to figure it out! lol :)

so i tested it on myself, which wasn't too bad (i'm not diabetic) and my reading was 103. i then convinced my wife to give it a shot, hers was 109. Both in the normal range.

so we wrestled down our cat (as lovingly as possible) and while it took a couple of tries, got a test done and it was 237. Using the control range on the back of the test strips, 237 isn't really in the high-range. We tested him 2.5 hrs after he had eaten and had his normal insulin dose. So what is a healthy range for him?

thanks everyone!
 
Congratulations on getting your first test. Welcome to the Vampire Club!

You are using PZI, right, Jason? What was the dose?

In general, a regulated cat on insulin is generally in the 200s at pre shot and in the 100s at nadir (6 hours after the shot). A cat in remission (off insulin) runs from 40s -100s with most of the day spent in double digits. We generally suggest that newbies don't shoot under 200, but wait 20-30 minutes and test again to be sure the number is headed up and over 200. Once you have data, you can shoot under 200.

Have you looked at the PZI forum and checked out some of the spreadsheets of other posters? You will be able to see the range of other cats. viewforum.php?f=24
 
Unless you and your wife just ate something sweet I am 'guessing' this meter runs a little high. Did it need to be coded?
It is not of real importance tho'...as what you will be looking for are the trends.
and before I forget.
WELCOME TO THE VAMPIRE CLUB!
and did kitty enjoy any of the other goodies that were in there for him.
I mean,,,THAT is the important thing ...that kitty gets his goodies too.
Lori
and Lord Thomas
 
You can buy ProZinc on line from the veterinary pharmacies like Foster and Smith and 1800PetMeds. You should check their prices. Also, I believe that ProZinc only comes in 10ml vials, which is 1000U. You might have gotten the 40 from the fact that it is a U40 insulin.

My BG level is often in the low 100s. I never before considered that my meter was wrong.
 
Venita and The Boyz said:
You can buy ProZinc on line from the veterinary pharmacies like Foster and Smith and 1800PetMeds. You should check their prices. Also, I believe that ProZinc only comes in 10ml vials, which is 1000U. You might have gotten the 40 from the fact that it is a U40 insulin.

My BG level is often in the low 100s. I never before considered that my meter was wrong.
Click to expand...



A 10ml vial of U-40 contains 400 units of insulin (40units per mil x 10ml = 400 units).

Hey, Venita....had your coffee yet this morning...surprised you would make that boo-boo.
 
lori and tom said:
Unless you and your wife just ate something sweet I am 'guessing' this meter runs a little high. Did it need to be coded?
It is not of real importance tho'...as what you will be looking for are the trends.
and before I forget.
WELCOME TO THE VAMPIRE CLUB!
and did kitty enjoy any of the other goodies that were in there for him.
I mean,,,THAT is the important thing ...that kitty gets his goodies too.
Lori
and Lord Thomas
Click to expand...

LOL, as a matter of fact we had both eaten sweets within 20 min i think lol! There is a blue solution marked control in the kit, i am not sure what to do with that... ?

And he did enjoy some of the toys! i say 'some' b/c our younger female cat quickly took over for him LOL! overall, it really wasn't too bad to get him down and get the sample, im sure it will just get easier over time!
 
jason said:
snip........overall, it really wasn't too bad to get him down and get the sample, im sure it will just get easier over time!
Click to expand...
I can attest to that! All the poking I did to Callie Mae those first few days were probably worse for me than for her, well, until I had to keep poking her of course. But then I was informed of the "warming" trick and that made a huge difference. That and the repetition I I down to only needing 1 poke now! :mrgreen:
Well, most times, anyway. I wasted a lot of strips to before the warming trick. Thinking I had a big enough drop only to get the famous E-2 error. (That's my meter's code speak for not enough blood.)
If you already mentioned it, I didn't notice, so I apologize if you have, but have you switched to a wet diet yet?
If you haven't, I can't stress enough how much of a difference this made for my girl. Just remember, YOU MUST TEST #'S WHEN SWITCHING BECAUSE THIS WILL CAUSE THE GLUCOSE TO DROP. Keeping the same dose when switching to a wet diet could be fatal!
Congrats!
 
jason said:
Hi All!

New to the site:) My 7 yr old male cat was diagnosed with diabetes last November. We have been struggling to get him to a maintenance level ever since. I'm sure you all know how costly this is. Our vet is great and is helping as much as possible.

However, we are closing in on having him regulated. He currently receives 2 doses a day, 5 units each. I have a feeling he won't be completely regulated until 6 or 7 units a day. we are currently using Prozinc, and the 40ML bottle (400 units) lasts just a bit over a month, and costs $90 a pop.

With one income and a new baby due in August, our funds are becoming very tight. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find a economic alternative? i have read that some folks get their insulin from Walmart or overseas. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!
Click to expand...

Hi Jason - My Simba was diagosed 3 weeks ago. Started him on ProZinc 2 units twice daily. I paid $106.00 from the vet. I too have been looking around to see where I could purchase ProZinc a little cheaper than the damn vet. Someone on this site mentioned Coscos, but not all carry it. I need to call Cocos near me to see if they carry ProZinc.I guess you don't have to be a member. I posted under "insulin support group" PZI - Where to buy ProZinc. You may want to check that out. I'm still new at this since its only been 3 weeks. Yes, I'm still feeding DM Dry food and most people here disagree with the dry food. Everyone here recommended Classic Fancy Feast wet, Simba loved it at first but now he's starting to NOT like it so much. I'm struggling now with the food situation since I have two cats. Yes, I haven't started doing home testing, my husband is not too thrilled about that. Please let me know how you make out with the home testing. I did buy a meter with strips just incase I really needed, I'm just afraid of prick his ears or pads.
 
I doubt if Costco would stock ProZinc, but they might be able to order it.

You can google 'ProZinc" for on-line sources.

You might also contact The Medicine Man Pharmacy. I don't know if they
still do mail-order...their web-site has changed.
I used to get my PZI Vet from them (now discontinued).

A phone number for them is 509-755-3333. Ask to talk to someone who knows
about veterinary insulins.
 
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