New to site. Desperate need of advice.

Parent of Brutus

Parent of Brutus

Member
I don’t know how legible this will be as I am sleep deprived. I am just at a loss right now. My boy has been diagnosed since May. been on Prozinc the entire time. started at .5, then 1, then 1.5, then he seemed better and tapered off into remission even for about a week until he had symptoms again and was back on insulin. he eats primarily wet food and a tiny bit of dry food (just recently learned to get him off it). he was increased to 2 units based on fructosamine results and recently and over a weekend stopped eating and went into DKA. hospitalized at his regular vet for a night with fluids and insulin but went south overnight without supervision so we took him to a 24/7 hospital that required $4k up front for treatment (which we could not produce)
we went home with him thinking we are going to have to put him down in the morning but now he is eating his wet food and seems alert and happy despite being a bit tired from the vet. I have mourned him so many times and also gotten my hope up so many times in the past few days I just don’t know what to do or how to feel anymore. Any advice or even just chat would be helpful. Thank you.
 
Thank you for your patience while I get used to the format of this site. Wrote my post in a panic without fully reading the intro to be honest.

I believe i have updated my signature to reflect all the info that I know. I do not have a spreadsheet, but I do have paper labs from my vet if that means anything.
We just bought a glucose meter today…we were never recommended to do so by our vet and feeling really guilty, and neglected like it’s too late.
 
We were sent home from medvet with instructions to make him comfortable at home to prep for euthanasia tomorrow because we feel like we can not afford his ongoing treatment. but we are willing to do anything we can from home. I let him eat pork steak and fancy feast with cheese tonight with no insulin and he hasn’t puked and seems alert and snuggly and purring.
I can’t imagine putting him down when he seems so happy right now.
update: blood glucose is 330 :/ he seems to do better with high blood sugar and no insulin i’m just confused and feel like my vet doesn’t know **** !!!
 
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My cat has also been hospitalized with ketones and he was on PZI for a couple weeks. At the emergency vet, he got fluids and they started him on a different insulin, Lantus. And it has been a better fit for my boy. Have you considered switching insulin?
 
Do you know how high your cat's ketones are? You can get urine test strips from Wal-Mart right away. You're going to need to test for ketones. I test my cat's ketones with a device almost exactly like the BG meter you just got. It's a KETOBM human ketones meter I got it from Amazon. Works great. Tiny blood sample. I would get the urine strips and blood ketones meter because of the time shipping will take.
 
Ezekiel said:
Thank you for your patience while I get used to the format of this site. Wrote my post in a panic without fully reading the intro to be honest.

I believe i have updated my signature to reflect all the info that I know. I do not have a spreadsheet, but I do have paper labs from my vet if that means anything.
We just bought a glucose meter today…we were never recommended to do so by our vet and feeling really guilty, and neglected like it’s too late.
Click to expand...

It's no problem. Thank you for updating signature. Because you have a meter, you are going to have data. Can you make a spreadsheet so our members can help you make safe decisions for your cat?
 
I am going to ask @Bandit's Mom to help you set up a spreadsheet as it is important we know what the BGs are doing. Its great you are hometesting them.

Because Brutus has had DKA there are several things you can do to help him recover.
  • you need to give one and a half times as many calories as he normally eats. Offer snacks every couple of hours during the day and evening as well as the 2 main meals. Food is like a medicine and helps keep ketones away. If your kitty won’t eat the low carb food, feed him whatever he will eat as eating any food is better than not eating,
  • Don’t skip any doses of insulin as insulin helps keep ketones away. If the BG is not high enough to give the dose…stall, don't feed and test again in 20 minutes and post and ask for help.
  • Test daily for ketones. Put the results of the tests into the remarks column of the SS so we can see. Please report any trace ketones at all. To test for ketones you will need to buy a bottle of ketostix from a pharmacy. Please get these asap as it is very important we know if ketones are present
  • Give antinausea medication if needed such as ondansetron or cerenia. Nausea is very common in post DKA kitties and it needs to be addresses immediately
  • Give appetite stimulant if needed after the antinausea medication
  • Give extra fluids. If kitty will tolerate warm water in the food, put a teaspoon into each snack..
  • Ask the vet about subQ fluids
  • Set up a spreadsheet and test the BG frequently
  • Post daily with updates and ask for help as often as needed.
 
he was 330 at 10:30 pm.
the med vet told us to skip insulin tonight and to just give him any food he will eat. but that’s assuming he is being euthanized tomorrow. it’s 11:30 pm near me so i can’t call our main vet for advice on insulin right now. his eating schedule is completely ****ed from being at different vets this week and his main meal was over 3 hours ago so i’m scared of dosing him on insulin at this point.
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I am going to ask @Bandit's Mom to help you set up a spreadsheet as it is important we know what the BGs are doing. It’s great you are hometesting them.

Because Brutus has had DKA there are several things you can do to help him recover.
  • you need to give one and a half times as many calories as he normally eats. Offer snacks every couple of hours during the day and evening as well as the 2 main meals. Food is like a medicine and helps keep ketones away. If your kitty won’t eat the low carb food, feed him whatever he will eat as eating any food is better than not eating,
  • Don’t skip any doses of insulin as insulin helps keep ketones away. If the BG is not high enough to give the dose…stall, don't feed and test again in 20 minutes and post and ask for help.
  • Test daily for ketones. Put the results of the tests into the remarks column of the SS so we can see. Please report any trace ketones at all. To test for ketones you will need to buy a bottle of ketostix from a pharmacy. Please get these asap as it is very important we know if ketones are present
  • Give antinausea medication if needed such as ondansetron or cerenia. Nausea is very common in post DKA kitties and it needs to be addresses immediately
  • Give appetite stimulant if needed after the antinausea medication
  • Give extra fluids. If kitty will tolerate warm water in the food, put a teaspoon into each snack..
  • Ask the vet about subQ fluids
  • Set up a spreadsheet and test the BG frequently
  • Post daily with updates and ask for help as often as needed.
Click to expand...
 
Ezekiel said:
he was 330 at 10:30 pm.
the med vet told us to skip insulin tonight and to just give him any food he will eat. but that’s assuming he is being euthanized tomorrow. it’s 11:30 pm near me so i can’t call our main vet for advice on insulin right now. his eating schedule is completely ****ed from being at different vets this week and his main meal was over 3 hours ago so i’m scared of dosing him on insulin at this point.
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Give him more food now then Please give him the dose now. And keep feeding him all he will eat
 
Kobe (Dean and Lesley) MO said:
My cat has also been hospitalized with ketones and he was on PZI for a couple weeks. At the emergency vet, he got fluids and they started him on a different insulin, Lantus. And it has been a better fit for my boy. Have you considered switching insulin?
Click to expand...
We have never been recommended switching until they tried some other kind
Kobe (Dean and Lesley) MO said:
My cat has also been hospitalized with ketones and he was on PZI for a couple weeks. At the emergency vet, he got fluids and they started him on a different insulin, Lantus. And it has been a better fit for my boy. Have you considered switching insulin?
Click to expand...
They tried him on Humulin to help with his DKA but otherwise we have not been recommended a different kind of insulin. is it something that he can switch to immediately and see life saving results ?
 
Prozinc is a good insulin for cats. I would stick with that.
Did you read through the info I gave you about DKA ?
Please give the dose of insulin now.
 
Ezekiel said:
2 units of prozinc? and then get him to eat ? i’m scared. my partner is asleep and they will never forgive me if i kill our cat based on advice from someone online. please understand my position.
Click to expand...
Feed him first then give the dose.
It is up to you if you want to trust me or not.
I have been helping post DKA cats for several years and I know that skipping doses of insulin is not the way to go.
Can you check the BG before the dose is given?
After feeding and giving the insulin, I would test the BG about 2 hours later and then 4 hours later. I will be around for the next 8 hours so can help you.
 
Ezekiel said:
BG is 295. dropping is good right ? he is eating right now then i will give him his 2 units.
Click to expand...
Well done.
I'm glad he is eating. Keep offering snacks of food
It is food and insulin which will keep the ketones at bay.
You will be busy for a week or two getting him well again but then things will settle down.
I know you are tired and worried but you have come to the best place for help
Keep posting and asking for help.:bighug:
 
Ezekiel said:
he is *actively* in DKA and has ketones
Click to expand...
Why did they send him home so soon?
Best thing you can do is keep feeding and giving the insulin.
If he will eat the food with a teaspoon of water in it, do that as well.
I have to go and pick up kids from school (I am in Australia) but I will be back in an hour and I will try and look online during that time.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Well done.
I'm glad he is eating.
It is food and insulin which will keep the ketones at bay.
You will be busy for a week or two getting him well again but then things will settle down.
I know you are tired and worried but you have come to the best place for help
Keep posting and asking for help.:bighug:
Click to expand...
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Why did they send him home so soon?
Best thing you can do is keep feeding and giving the insulin.
If he will eat the food with a teaspoon of water in it, do that as well.
I have to go and pick up kids from school (I am in Australia) but I will be back in an hour and I will try and look online during that time.
Click to expand...
my main vet doesn’t overnight and recommended medvet for 24/7 care. but they needed $4k up front and i was not approved for care credit and don’t have that kind of money at the ready. we are taking him back to his regular vet tomorrow morning and i still don’t know if it’s to put him down or to begin home care (?) a new probably still very expensive and scary intense journey
also, he is drinking a LOT of water on his own.
 
Tomorrow morning can you take him back to your regular vet for IV fluids and checking his electrolytes?
Can you afford that?
I wrote above before seeing your reply.

DKA is treatable and he should then get back to normal.
I would not let them put him down if he is eating and just needs some extra support.
We see lots of cats who arrive here post DKA here and many of them are a lot sicker than Brutus. Some can't eat for a couple of weeks. The fact Brutus is eating is very good.
Remember we can support you every day and night as you help him recover. We are here 24/7
 
Kobe (Dean and Lesley) MO said:
Do you know how high your cat's ketones are? You can get urine test strips from Wal-Mart right away. You're going to need to test for ketones. I test my cat's ketones with a device almost exactly like the BG meter you just got. It's a KETOBM human ketones meter I got it from Amazon. Works great. Tiny blood sample. I would get the urine strips and blood ketones meter because of the time shipping will take.
Click to expand...
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Tomorrow morning can you take him back to your regular vet for IV fluids and checking his electrolytes?
Can you afford that?
I wrote above before seeing your reply.

DKA is treatable and he should then get back to normal.
I would not let them put him down if he is eating and just needs some extra support.
We see lots of cats who arrive here post DKA here and many of them are a lot sicker than Brutus. Some can't eat for a couple of weeks. The fact Brutus is eating is very good.
Remember we can support you every day and night as you help him recover. We are here 24/7
Click to expand...
thank you so much. for your help and consideration. we are able to afford those tests and are going to insist on them before considering euthanasia. i have been so guilted and talked down to by my family today so this is an an entirely different world to me.
 
Please do not euthanize him yet! Like Bron said, we have had cats who have turned around spectacularly and some have even gone into remission. A DKA can be very hard but it is treatable.

I will share the spreadsheet of @Fistuk & Shelly whose cat Fistuk was also had DKA at the time of his FD diagnosis. Shelly managed to turn him around and even get him tightly regulated.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Trud-L-KibeQy1L7ox5evQ1HA83yD1rybJgKFu2vGkg/edit?gid=5#gid=5

I am trying to remember other cats who have successfully recovered from DKAs - I will try and share their spreadsheets and tag those members so they can also help and support you. Bron is our expert at DKAs and I cannot tell you how many cats and caregivers she has helped. If you can afford it, you want to give it a shot.

Hang in there! A diabetes diagnosis is overwhelming enough without the additional complication of a DKA
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
It is hard when family are not on your side.:bighug:
When you go to the vet in the morning ask them to put him on IV fluids and test his blood for electrolytes. They should do a full blood count. And then they can give some medications to correct the electrolytes if needed.
Ask them to check for an infection. Maybe a UTI, Cats with DKA usually have an infection or inflammation.
Make sure they give the next dose of insulin 12 hours after the dose you have just given...take the insulin in with you to the vet.
And take in food you know he will eat. If it is the dry food that is OK for now. Eating any food is OK at the moment. We just need him to eat well. We can worry about getting him back onto a low carb diet later.
Please keep us in the loop. We care.
 
I know you said 2 hours but I checked again after an hour and we are down to 288. not great, still but he seems generally comfortable and keeps drinking water on his own. just sick of my poking and staring at him at this point. going to let us both take a nap and check back in 2 hours or so. i will at least ask my partner to check his levels if i don’t get up in time. Vet opens at 7am our time and it’s 1 am now but still no puking !!! which i take as a win. thank you all for giving me hope.
 
Parent of Brutus said:
I know you said 2 hours but I checked again after an hour and we are down to 288. not great, still but he seems generally comfortable and keeps drinking water on his own. just sick of my poking and staring at him at this point. going to let us both take a nap and check back in 2 hours or so. i will at least ask my partner to check his levels if i don’t get up in time. Vet opens at 7am our time and it’s 1 am now but still no puking !!! which i take as a win. thank you all for giving me hope.
Click to expand...
295 to 288 is nothing really when you take into account meter variance. Prozinc usually takes about 2 hours to onset so lets see what the 4 hour one says.
Great no puking. When you test give him a little treat. Its good he is drinking water.
 
Hi Dean and Leslie

I’m sorry you’re going through this difficult phase and feeling lost. You’ve got some good advice here. The same I received back them when Fistuk had his ketones and I must tell you it saves us!!

DKA is not a reason to put down an animal. It is dangerous but also very treatable.

I took Fistuk to the hospital when he had ketones. I can’t remember the number back then but it was high. The most important thing they can do in a hospital is to level his electrolytes.
It is pricey. I totally sympathise with that obstacle. The hospital that took Fistuk was kind enough to offer us instalment payments and we’re still paying it after 1.5 years…. But the important point is that it’s possible to help Kobe.

Of there’s a good vet they might be able to balance his electrolytes during one day at least to some extent.

Learning how to give SQ fluids is really important because it helps flash the ketones and keep him hydrated.

Give him anti nausea meds immediately so he eats and a lot. I used to syringe feed Fistuk every two hours to get into him 1.5 time of food of the normal amount. Ketones are very acidic which is why they feel very nauseous and don’t want to eat.

Fistuk had ketones and it was the most scary things I had to deal with but it’s been a year and half since the last time and he is stable and happy.

I send you all the strength, healing vines and love you need to get through this.

I’m happy you reached out here for support. It’s the best support and advice available and the people in this forum literally helped me save Fistuk’s life
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I am so scared that even after all of this hope and knowledge we will not be able to afford his treatment. i don’t know if i can live with myself knowing i can do more if i had more money.
 
Parent of Brutus said:
I am so scared that even after all of this hope and knowledge we will not be able to afford his treatment. i don’t know if i can live with myself knowing i can do more if i had more money.
Click to expand...
I truly sympathise with that!! It’s a tough place to be in. It’s a harsh reality to swallow.

hang in there. It’s tough now but it’ll get better. Those high BG numbers are scary but you’re doing the right things to get them down.

Fistuk went all the way up to 5.5U to be able to break the cycle of red and black numbers. Kobe can do it.
We’re all holding hope with you. You’re not alone :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
If you can take him to your local vet during the day and home at night for a few days ( if he’s well enough) that should cut costs a lot.
There are places that can help you financially
Have you tried Diabetic cats in need?
@Chris & China (GA)
@Diane Tyler's Mom GA do you know if other places?
Click to expand...
this is our plan for the morning ! also, it seems like they have not been accepting new applicants for a while unfortunately. I do have a go fund me if that is appropriate to share anywhere on here.
 
Parent of Brutus said:
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
if you are available i could use guidance. tested again at 7am and he is back up to 280. we got him eating. should i give more insulin ?
Click to expand...
@Kobe (Dean and Lesley) MO is correct. Brutus’s next dose of insulin is 12 hours after his last dose.Keep feeding him
I’m just heading off to bed. I hope all goes well at the vet today. I’ll look in as soon as I wake up.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I am going to ask @Bandit's Mom to help you set up a spreadsheet as it is important we know what the BGs are doing. Its great you are hometesting them.

Because Brutus has had DKA there are several things you can do to help him recover.
  • you need to give one and a half times as many calories as he normally eats. Offer snacks every couple of hours during the day and evening as well as the 2 main meals. Food is like a medicine and helps keep ketones away. If your kitty won’t eat the low carb food, feed him whatever he will eat as eating any food is better than not eating,
  • Don’t skip any doses of insulin as insulin helps keep ketones away. If the BG is not high enough to give the dose…stall, don't feed and test again in 20 minutes and post and ask for help.
  • Test daily for ketones. Put the results of the tests into the remarks column of the SS so we can see. Please report any trace ketones at all. To test for ketones you will need to buy a bottle of ketostix from a pharmacy. Please get these asap as it is very important we know if ketones are present
  • Give antinausea medication if needed such as ondansetron or cerenia. Nausea is very common in post DKA kitties and it needs to be addresses immediately
  • Give appetite stimulant if needed after the antinausea medication
  • Give extra fluids. If kitty will tolerate warm water in the food, put a teaspoon into each snack..
  • Ask the vet about subQ fluids
  • Set up a spreadsheet and test the BG frequently
  • Post daily with updates and ask for help as often as needed.
Click to expand...

This list the Bron shared is critical. You can ask the vet today about the anti-nausea meds (Cerenia and Ondansetron), an appetite stimulant (many of us us Mirtazapene Transdermal Ointment), and subQ fluids.

Don't skip shots! Noon is perfect. Test BG before the shot. Lots of food and water!

Bron helped my cat recover from DKA. Hang in there!
 
Kobe (Dean and Lesley) MO said:
This list the Bron shared is critical. You can ask the vet today about the anti-nausea meds (Cerenia and Ondansetron), an appetite stimulant (many of us us Mirtazapene Transdermal Ointment), and subQ fluids.

Don't skip shots! Noon is perfect. Test BG before the shot. Lots of food and water!

Bron helped my cat recover from DKA. Hang in there!
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for your encouragement! I was advised to not feed him between shots. is that assuming his levels are maintained by insulin and diet and not in DKA? Should I offer him food and treats as much as he wants right now ? because he does seem interested.
 
Parent of Brutus said:
Thank you so much for your encouragement! I was advised to not feed him between shots. is that assuming his levels are maintained by insulin and diet and not in DKA? Should I offer him food and treats as much as he wants right now ? because he does seem interested.
Click to expand...

I was told that same thing. :banghead: Most of us use snacks between meals to HELP our cats regulate BG.

snack would be great right now. Little water in the wet food. Don't fed for 2 hours before BG test and shot. You don't want Preshot BG reading altered by food when you shoot.:D:D:D
 
Kobe (Dean and Lesley) MO said:
Interested is good. We like Interested :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...

I trust this Forum Blindly, every member always puts in a great effort and knowledge to help our anxiety and concerns out to rest, they have saved my Corky's life, I would follow every single suggestion given , you will not be alone. do not put him down, at least not just yet, believe me when I say, you have found hope here, below is a link of financial assistance, we are here to help you 24/7 no questions is ever small, continue to post
:bighug::bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/financial-help-links.131190/
 
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