New to Lantus -- Harry's at 121 right now, should I shoot?

[Ashley & Harry]

Hello! After a little scare I had this morning because I'm bad at this whole insulin thing, I was told that I should post here to get advice on his PM shot.

So I'm bad at checking Harry in the morning, but I'm gonna get better about it. But here are his numbers:

AMPS: ?
AM units: 1.5
+2.0: 164
+2.5: 158
+3.0: 157
+4.0: 125
+4.75: 98
+5.25: 88
+5.75: 89
+6.5: 100
+8.0: 120
+12.0: 121
+12.25: 164 (had a bit to eat)

Given that he's relatively low, how much should I give him? His sheet's a little all over the place, sorry. Kris & Teasel mentioned checking him a bit later and stalling food, but unfortunately I didn't see that until I had already fed him. From +8 to +12, however, he didn't have much (if any) food, so he was lounging around there on his own. He just ran off to get more food, too, so it may increase more.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Can you monitor tonight?

Although this can be a safe number to shoot, you don't have a lot of data about shooting numbers like this, and the boards are very light tonight so I'm not sure if there will be anyone around to help out if he goes low. I'm afraid I don't have enough experience to be able to tell you one way or the other on this, I'm sorry.

 

[Bronx's dad (GA)]

and most kitties have lower #'s overnight

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Can your schedule accommodate your shooting later in the morning? Do you have extra strips and high carb food available if needed?

Not all cats have lower PM cycles -- many do, but not all. It's hard to tell if this is the case for Harry..

 

[Ashley & Harry]

Can your schedule accommodate your shooting later in the morning? Do you have extra strips and high carb food available if needed?

Harry only lets my husband shoot him (like, I'll try, and he'll stand up and walk over to husband and won't stay still for me. he's a butt). My husband always does ~15 minutes before leaving for work, so I could try to struggle with him after that, but I don't want to cause him more stress than necessary. I do have a lot of strips, actually just bought 200 and have most of them left. We have friskies (chicken/salmon in gravy) if necessary.

Based on all of this I think that it would probably be safest to skip his shot, see where he's at before we go to bed, and give him 1.5 in the morning, to prevent going hypo when we aren't awake to take care of him. Especially since we're already an hour after his usual shot, and my understanding is that it's better to be too high than too low cause high is bad longterm but low is bad immediately.

I'll try to do a few more curves over the next few weeks. His ears are not too pleased with me right now so I'm gonna try to minimise testing if possible to give them a chance to heal up a bit.

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

I'll try to do a few more curves over the next few weeks. His ears are not too pleased with me right now so I'm gonna try to minimise testing if possible to give them a chance to heal up a bit.

Have you tried rubbing some Neosporin ointment (or a generic) with pain relief on his ears at night before bed? It really helps them heal. It's great that you're home testing, and I love your enthusiasm, but you really don't have to test every hour unless he's really low (like under 60). Even a curve is only every two hours. Give both of you a little break!

Is your husband not willing to test in the morning before he shoots? It really is important to get that pre-shot test, especially since Harry is reacting so well to Lantus already. You don't want to take a chance on his being really low when you give him insulin and triggering a hypo event.

Let's hope you can shoot consistently for a few days, so the depot can fill and we can see what this dose is really doing. With skipping shots and changing the dose, you are going to get wonky numbers. Hang in there! This will get easier!

 

[Ashley & Harry]

You people are amazing. I really appreciate all of you so much.

I just have pretty much never seen Harry below 100 aside from the past few days, so when he gets that low, I freak because I think bad things. I'll keep that in mind, though, and back off unless he's really low (60ish).

Husband is, for whatever reason, comfortable giving the shot but not comfortable poking his ear and making him bleed. But I'm comfortable with the ear pokes and not the shot, so it works out. I will work on dragging my butt out of bed. Usually he'll give it at 6:45ish am, and I'm awake by 9, so it's only about two hours of him not being supervised -- but it's better for me to wake up for five minutes to test him instead so I know that he doesn't even need to be monitored.

I'll have to do some research on the depot and stuff, cause I don't really understand that still.

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

I'll have to do some research on the depot and stuff, cause I don't really understand that still.

I know, I found it really confusing. See if this post helps: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-what-is-the-insulin-depot.150/ If it doesn't, ask for more explanation.

I will work on dragging my butt out of bed. Usually he'll give it at 6:45ish am, and I'm awake by 9, so it's only about two hours of him not being supervised -- but it's better for me to wake up for five minutes to test him instead so I know that he doesn't even need to be monitored.

I can relate. My DH left for work between 6 & 6:30, so he tested, fed and shot (t/f/s) in the morning at 6:15 or so, and I tried to get up around 9:30ish to test. I'm a night owl and do my best sleeping in the morning. When he would be out of town on business I would have to drag it out at 6:30 and do the t/f/s myself. I got pretty good at going btb (back to bed)!

 

[Ashley & Harry]

So basically, his body just holds on to the insulin if he needs it? And if I give him more his body will hold on to that too? To some extent, at least, in laymans terms.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

So basically, his body just holds on to the insulin if he needs it? And if I give him more his body will hold on to that too? To some extent, at least, in laymans terms.

Not exactly. When he gets the shot, some of it goes to work within a couple of hours to begin to lower his blood sugar. Some of it forms a depot (deposit) in his body and sort of slow releases. Think of it like timed-release medicine.

It's not a case of releasing it if he needs more. It will slowly release over time regardless of what his blood sugar is.

You're off on the right track - keep asking questions. I'd second Tricia's suggestion to get a morning preshot test. You probably know since Harry went into remission before, that a cat's body can change and heal, and the dose that was just right before can become too big now. Or the dose that was too big or too small in the past, can be the just right dose in the future. Testing is absolutely the only way to know what's going on inside his little body and to keep him safe.

You can always go back to bed after you test him.

I wanted to say welcome to the group - we're glad to have you here. Here is a thread "Where Can I Find?" that can help you find information that we commonly use in this group. The stickies are full of good information, but I found after I'd read through them I couldn't find my way back to information, so this link may help you with that. Some people bookmark it for future reference.

Keep asking questions and it will all begin to make sense soon.

 

[Ashley & Harry]

Thank you -- that makes a lot of sense. I'll try to ask questions, I just don't want to look like a bad caretaker cause I'm so clueless so far in.

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

I'll try to ask questions, I just don't want to look like a bad caretaker cause I'm so clueless so far in.

Don't worry, we all felt lost in the beginning. There is so much info here that it is totally overwhelming. You are not going to look like a bad caretaker as long as you keep asking questions and keep trying!

Here is another link that might help you use this site to your best advantage: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/updated-tips-for-new-members.173572/ We tried to answer a lot of the most frequently asked questions, but if you don't see the answer here, ask!