New to Forums, Have a few questions

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Liz&Gus

Member Since 2013
Hello Everyone!

To start, my name is Liz and my newly diagnosed diabetic cat is a 6 year grey black tabby, Gus. I brought Gus to the vet last week because he was losing weight (from 19 lbs at last vet visit in July 2013 to 14 lb in November 2013, his body score is a 3/4 - basically he is a bit too thin now) and urinating a lot. He was also refusing to eat food. After some tests, the vet determined Gus' BG was above 400. A complete senior panel was run and this was the only problem that the vet identified. Gus was prescribed Lantus, at 1 unit every 12 hours, and has been on it for about 6 days without any major problems. He doesn't like the shot, but he isn't fighting it either.

I've changed Gus' food from 3/4 cup of Dry Healthy Weight Purina Kibble each day to canned Purina DM. Gus really likes kibble, so to aid the transition from kibble to canned, I tossed the Healthy Weight Purina Kibble and purchased a small bag of EVO Cat and Kitten kibble, which Gus eats as if it was cat-candy. I've been using this as treats and to tempt him to eat the canned food. I've changed from a once-per-day feeding to twice-per-day. My question is: How much canned food should I feed him? The Purina DM website says that he should get 2 and 1/8 cans (each can is 5.5 oz) everyday, which seems like a huge amount for a cat that was overweight on just 3/4 cup of food. On the other hand, he needs to gain about a pound.

I haven't done a BG curve yet, as the vet said I should wait 1-2 weeks to let the insulin and the diet change settle.

Any suggestions are welcome as I don't feel that I have a good grasp as to how to feed Gus now.

Thanks! Liz
 
Hello Liz, and a big welcome to you and Gus. You've found a great place to help you help Gus and his diabetes. And by coming here you've shown how much you care for him. There are three things that we think are important to manage FD.

First, serving low carb wet food. There is a great discussion on http://www.catinfo.org on feline diets. You do not have to feed the DM food, very few people here do. It's got a large proportion of liver which cats often tire of, plus it's expensive. Dr. Pierson has done an analysis of a large number of the commercial cat foods available in North America. We serve anything under 8% carbs on this list. For determining how much to feed kitty, check out the page on how much to feed. The website also has a number of tips on how to transition kitties from dry food to wet food. We also suggest multiple small meals a day as it's easier on a cat's healing pancreas.

Next is a good insulin and with Lantus you've got a good one for kitties. There is a dosing protocol based on scientific research that has a high percentage of cats who go into remission. For more info on Lantus, read the articles on the top of this forum.

Third and equally important is testing the cats blood sugar at home. People wouldn't take insulin themselves without testing their blood sugar first. Especially since cats can go into remission, it's important to test to make sure Gus's blood sugar is high enough to give insulin. We've often heard vets say not to test or not test for a while. But I've also seen people here have cats blood sugar go dangerously low in their first few days of giving insulin. On this forum, we suggest people not give insulin if their BG is under 200 in US (11.1 rest of the world). And another reason for testing, as you move to lower carb foods, Gus will need less insulin.
 
Thanks Wendy,

The formula on Dr. Lisa Pierson's page was helpful: (13.6 * lb of ideal body weight) +70 = calories per day to feed

Liz
 
Welcome.

1. Home testing is important. Now, not in a week or two. There are some cats who are DIET CONTROLLED and with your switching to canned food (scrap the vet foods and go with Dr. Lisa's food list, sticking to under 10% carbs) you may not be on insulin for long or the small dose of 1u may be too much when you have your cat eating all wet food. Try some of the Fancy Feast Pate flavors or even the Friskies pates; many people feed those brands with no problems.

2.It is much preferred for a diabetic to eat frequently. Feed small amounts maybe 1/4can of Fancy Feast 4-6 times a day, or more. Yes, your cat will eat more because the body is not capable of extracting the nutrients needed to keep the body functioning, so let your cat eat. One of my cats was up to 30oz a day but got down to around 10oz or less a day once he was regulated.
You want to keep in mind that the feeding instructions on all company sites will be for healthy cats, not sick or diabetic cats, so you can ignore what they say.
Instead, if your cat is more of a nibbler, not a gobbler, you can feed what amount he wants.
Just do not feed for the 2 hours prior to testing before each shot because food will affect the numbers and give you an artificially higher reading.

So, vet food is not great, it's higher in carbs in most cases, and all dry food will defeat your purpose of giving insulin by pulling up the numbers while the insulin is trying to pull down the numbers.
Pick up a couple cans of a few diff brands and flavors from Dr. Lisa's list and see what YOUR cat likes.

Gayle
 
Thanks Gayle!

I purchased a BG monitor and test strips. I'll try to get a reading today from Gus. The down side is that I'm only around for 12 straight hours on the weekends, so the curve will have to wait until next weekend. Is it useful to start testing before each shot, or is the 12 hour curve the really important part?

Liz
 
Hi Liz and extra sweet Gus!! Welcome to the FDMB!!

There are 4 tests per day that we highly recommend (at least)

ALWAYS before giving insulin...this test is called the AMPS (AM Pre-Shot) or PMPS (PM Pre-Shot). You always want to get these tests before shooting so you know it's safe to give any insulin at all, especially since you're working on lowering the carbs in his food. Make sure to pick up his food at least 2 hours before these tests so they're not influenced by food.

During the AM cycle, get a test somewhere between +5 and +7 (+5 is 5 hours after shooting, +7 is 7 hours after shooting, etc..) This is to help find the "nadir" (the point in the cycle where the Lantus is working it's BEST)

During the PM cycle, get a "before bed" test...depending on what the results are, you may want to set an alarm to get more tests during the night since most cats do go lower at night.

Of course there's no such thing as too many tests, but those 4 are the most important.

Lantus is a depot insulin, which means that some of it goes to work quickly, while the rest is stored in the tissues and released slowly. With Lantus, you hold the same dose for 5-7 days when you first start to "fill the depot" and get as many tests as you can so you learn how Gus responds to both the insulin and food.

Here's a list of supplies you'll want to get:

1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro. (meters are cheap..it's the strips that are expensive..the Relion brands from WalMart have economical strips)
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Good luck to you and Gus during this new adventure. Ask any questions you might have. We've all been where you are, and are happy to help!
 
Thanks Chris!

I'm trying to test Gus' BG, and I am having serious problems.

He is a bit ear shy and keeps trying to run away from me while I lancet him. I have a flashlight, can see the vein and I think I am lanceting in the right spot, but I get no blood. Gus whines and flinches (I'm using a lancet but not a lancet device, so there is no click sound) so I know that he feels the poke. The gauge is a 26. His ear is prewarmed. He has food in front of him, which he eats until I touch his ear. I don't have enough hands to hold the cat, the flashlight and the lancet. What do I do?

Liz
 
Here's a video that may help, but the trick with kitties who don't like their ears touched is just conditioning. Most cats don't mind the poking since there aren't many pain receptors in their ears, but they don't like their ears played with.

[youtube]_zE12-4fVn8[/youtube]

For now, since you're already giving insulin and need to be safe, you might try burrito wrapping him (this isn't the best video but I found it first..I'd never "roll" my cat up like he does, but it shows the basic idea
[youtube]_4WBN53obFE[/youtube]
 
Now that I have a little more time (I'm assuming you needed to shoot soon and wanted to get the test in first), here's what I did with mine (who also didn't like having her ears touched)

Decide where you want to do your testing. A counter, a certain place on the floor, wherever is most convenient for you. As many times a day as you can, take Gus to that spot and just rub his ears...even for a split second if that's all he'll allow, and have a yummy treat ready for him. (I used boiled chicken cut into bite sized pieces but some people use freeze dried chicken or whatever low carb treat Gus likes)

As he learns to associate the ear rubs with the treat, he should start to relax and even look forward to it (this is where having a highly food motivated cat is great).

Have your testing supplies set up so he gets used to seeing them in that special spot.

Here are some more Ear Testing Tips as well as one of our members has put Ear testing Psychology together to help too


Here's a better video (that doesn't roll the cat up....lol)
[youtube]2VSJ4B0fTzs[/youtube]
 
How does he feel about his feet being touched? You could do paw pad testing.

I have two diabetic cats and I use different techniques to test them.

With Tiggy I wait till he is relaxed and or snoozing and I go over to where he is and rub his ears and test him. He doesn't wake up and I don't need to restrain him. If I tried to restrain him I know he would go nuts, so this works best for him!

With Bailey, he doesn't like his ears being touched much but instead of burrito I sit on the floor and put bailey between my legs and cross my ankles. He then stands between my thighs while i test and I can control him with my thighs. That leaves my hands free for testing. And he is always happy for the treat!

Wendy
 
Success! I just got a blood sample! BG = 238

I left the testing materials out all night and he ignores them now instead of staring at them suspiciously. I also lancetted on the inside of the ear and could see the blood. I wonder if my issue was that I was getting blood but couldn't see it due to his black fur? It went really fast this time, so neither Gus nor I got frustrated or worked up. It took about 30 seconds to do the entire process.

I saw that some people use neosporin, but I was confused by one post that said it aided in the blood pooling - do you put it on before or after the lanceting? I assumed after, like a cut, but if it aids in blood droplets then does that mean you have to put it on before?

I haven't tried his feet yet, but he lets me trim his claws, as long as I'm fast and he gets plenty of treats.

Thanks for the link to the psychology of testing page, that was really helpful!

I see that most people have a spread sheet in their signatures. Is there a template for this? If so, where do I get it?

Thanks!

Liz
 
Good job Liz!!

Glad the information helped you too! The spreadsheet is working...now you just have to get a bunch of tests in to "fill in the blanks"...LOL

The more you get, the better you'll understand how Gus does, but at the very least, try to get those 4 in...and if you can get others, that's great too!

About once/week, if you don't do a lot of testing during the week, try to do a curve or mini curve. A curve is every 2 hours through 1 cycle, and a mini curve is every 3 hours for 1 cycle. It'll help you learn when Gus is going to "typically" nadir...of course just because they nadir at +6 today doesn't mean they will tomorrow! They have to keep us guessing ..I think it's in the "How to keep your hoomin confused" handbook :lol:
 
Welcome to the Vampire Club and your first successful blood test.

Yes, those black ears and black fur can make it difficult to see the blood droplet. I shaved a tiny patch with a safety razor on Wink's ear when I first started testing him. His long, black fur just got in the way and the blood seemed to disappear! The fur grew back really quickly and I got much better at seeing the blood in that dark fur so have not needed to trim his ear fur in quite some time. But boy, it really did help a lot at the beginning with his long, dark fur.
 

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