New to forum with TWO newly diagnosed diabetic cats

[Chris S]

Hi!

Whelp, here I am... a little wordy if you want the cliff notes. We have 2 diagnosed with diabetes . Yeah. joy.

A little story on our story:

We have 9 cats. Yes, NINE. My husband had a handful of strays turned pets and I came to the relationship with a pair of littermate sisters.

Everyone is as young as 7 and as old as 16.(and if you do the math on the husband and I, we fall in the same swing as the cats on age differences lol).

One of our cats has a dental issue-losing teeth and no real cause. The vet dentist said its just what it is and she is eating and managing so we should just monitor her. We believe she is done losing for now but will have to watch (she is 11. Her sister of same litter has some too so its def something hereditary we are told).

Another is SUPER overweight. hes 29 lbs. We have the entire house on what we THOUGHT was a good diet-metabolic from the vet etc BUT now with our diabetic cat (and hes not one of the two with diabetes if you can believe that!!) we are finding that what we have had for food was just wrong...

On to the two w diabetes:
Winston-16 (actually SECOND diagnosed cat in the house but Harley story need more so sharing Winston first)
He was declawed by his first owners before he turned 2
Had urinary tract issues and had THE surgery and has had minimal issue since
He WAS a big tubby guy for most of his life and we started him on a metabolic diet (ala vet diet food) and he lost weight over a few years and got down to a healthy (for him) weight around 17 lbs (from a high of 24!!).
We were doing well. No urinary issues. Has been on a sprinkle of fortiflora for his diet for years and was eating this so called diet food.
Then last year we noticed he started to feel bony/looked like he was losing weight. We take him to vet, run blood work etc and nothing appears out of the ordinary-just a 3 lb weight loss in 18 mos. No masses felt etc. However, the vet had said that we could start a pallative care with a small dose of prednisone daily for suspected cancer somewhere. We didn't want to test further for cancer since this old man was not having it. He does NOT like being touched etc surely after all the drama he had as a little guy. Plus there was the cost to find out something we wouldn't be able to afford to treat . So we agreed to go with pred and understood he may only have a year or less with us. and Off we went. (knowing there are risks w pred but felt his comfort was what we were looking to achieve for what are his last days/years).
We did a 6 month recheck. Blood still good. Weight holding at 14 lbs. Major changes at home: when we heard this guy was likely on his last days/months/years, we STOPPED the metabolic wet food, and let Winston go to town on the household proplan we would feed everyone. We REDUCED the metabolic dry food (because the hefty kitty I mentioned above still needed support but less to graze for the day).
Winston has been constipated on and off over the years and has never really peed IN the litter box; always on a pad or towel just outside the box. So in good news-we know his general body functions since he doesn't follow the others.

Now, about 10 days ago, we noticed he started to have loose stool. We spoke to vet and monitored. He would drink more water (expected) but he ate well as always. THen, Thursday it became a poopapalloza in the house. It was just EVERYWHERE. On the couch. ON EVERY CAT BED. ON blankets. on the floor. all over poor Winston. Off to the vet we go. He is carrying a low body temp (97) and lost a pound in 6 mos. They take a blood glucose check in office and it was 645!!!!!! Soo...… we go home with meds for the stool, shot for antibiotic, reduction plan to remove pred (since perhaps we don't need any more/it could be causing more issue/still no known mass for that cancer of unknown origin loose diagnosis a year ag), a change to wet food (which we were already underway with due to Harley), and to start lantus at 1unit/2x/d. Gave the old man a nice warm soapy bath to clean him up with a cat /pet friendly soap and we are now in monitoring mode.

Since apparently I write novels for first posts, I will write about Harley story in a second post here shortly.

 

[Chris S]

Here is Harley story:
As a kitten, she had roundworm (is that its name-the skin irritant parasite?) and was nearly bald when I adopted her and her littermate sister.
We nearly lost Harley at 2.5. She had an out of the blue serious necrotizing pancreatitus attack that had her in the ICU for a week and then a feeding tube for 5 weeks .
I literally nursed her back with those 3 times a day feeds.... She lost about 6 lbs in that short time but she got her appetite back quickly once she was all better.

Shortly after this, she started to eat her paws and scratch her back out of either an allergy or anxiety. We could not find the right answer. we used atopica for a while but it never really helped and then one day she stopped. So we stopped the meds and she never did it again

Harley was always a big eater. Girl was as much as 16 lbs in her heyday. However, we modified her diet and she got to a good 14 lbs and we and the vet were comfortable for her for that weight.

about 3 years ago, we had a flea issue (we live in the woods area in NJ and apparently it was a big year in our area and while we have hardwood floors, somehow the house had it. It took weeks to address but we got it out of the house and all 9 were cleared). The flea issue made Harley scratch like crazy. Poor girl needed some steroid shot to relax. But we got better.

About 6 mos ago, she was scratching again. No fleas but needed a shot once more.

And then I noticed she was losing weight. Felt bony . No other symptoms.
And then the big fat cat in the house had a 105 temp and we had to spend a weekend in a vet hospital so any funds for me to take Harley to see what was going on now went to Finnegan (the big cat in the first post).

Harley didn't get to vet for 3 more months (jan).
During that time the only change was still weight loss. I didn't see her at the water fountain anymore than normal.
There was def more pee clumps in the liter box but with 9 its hard to say If it was an increase or just change of who was going where.
In jan we run tests and are thinking it will be thyroid. Nope. glucose of 545.

Since Harley was first for diagnosis and I was going to need to order Lantus from Canada to be able to afford it, we had about 10 days to make some changes at home.

First we started DM savory wet and dry. The DM dry went for the entire house.

Then I started research on foods and found this web site and read and read and read.

And we realized the dm is garbage. (just like that metablic crap too).

So.... we started a transition to fancy fast classics as suggested under the dr lisa list when sorted by the parameters suggested.

So Harley is now getting fancy feast classics (chicken or ocean white fish, and flaked chicken) and his happier than a clam at high tide. We are reducing the dry even more and looking for an alt dry food (as suggested on the main forum pages).

Harley had a little hard go with insulin first week as we had to travel so she was getting her introductory 1 unit/2x/d on a every 9-12 hour schedule so by the end of the week, she wasn't herself. When we went to vet for check, her blood glcose was 415. Still high but lower than original. (that was a +6 reading). we gave some fluids and sent home to go to 2u/2xd. Checked for ketones-negative (phew!).
Since then she has been doing so muc better. Even noticing less of those pee piles if they are her.

Just hoping we get on the right side here soon --shes down to 7 lbs . Poor girl. But still comes out-purring, sleeping with me etc so again the onl thing is weight loss that I still see for her.

 

[Chris S]

Overall here is current status:
Winston-still loose stool but appears it may be getting better. Still need to get a pee catch. have test strip to check at home for ketones and also send urine sample to vet for further check once we get a catch.
Winston eating fancy feast classics same as Harley. Dry is still DM but we will make slow change there once we have a better overall plan. Cant be changing everything at once. Vet felt ok to change Winston wet food since we hadn't started insulin yet at the time.
Winston getting 1u/2xd of lantus. Recheck on sat.
Getting soap baths for his irritated bum as needed. A little spa day for the old man
Still eating well and still spending a lot of time at the water fountain BUT he seems to already peeing a little less.

Harley-2u/2xd lantus. Eating well. Drinking well. just hoping for some weight gain to start soon.

Both animals-I will learn to do home testing on sat. Understand its need and will add that to the list. its been a LOT to take in and read and digest all at once so just doing what I can as I can and hoping for the best.

 

[Juls and Billy]

Two diabetic kitties at once! You and your husband rock for taking such good care of the kitties. We have six cats ourselves. My fiance and I moved in with my mom to help her (she's 82) and between her cats, our cats, and a couple sick feral kitten babies we rescued from our back yard, we've got six.

I know you're writing Harley's story for us, and that's awesome. But I thought I'd get you started with some basics for the message board. This is THE place to learn all about Feline diabetes. Vets often have limited information of Feline Diabetes, but this site is where it's at for learning how to help your kitties.

First, are you home testing your kitties' BGL? Especially with the diet changes, home testing is necessary to keep them safe, yet vets rarely recommend it. Home testing tells you if your cat's BGL is high enough to give them insulin, helps keep them from having a dangerous hypoglycemic event, and lets you know when to adjust the dose. My vet had Billy on 2 units if eating and 1 if not. If I had not been home testing, I would have given him 2 units on day five when his pre-shot BGL was only 52. This site saved his life. You can find out a bunch about home testing here. There's no need to get a pet meter. Most members here use a less expensive human meter, like WalMart's ReliOn. It saves money, and all the information here is based on human meters. With a pet meter, you'll have to take the difference into consideration.

There is an awesome food chart here. There are a ton of good low-carb canned food choices on it. Look for ones where the protein is near 50% of calories, and it's less than 10% calories from carbs. Keeping the phosphorous level lower is also a good idea. Many members use Fancy Feast pates. I used to think they were the McDonalds of cat foods, but that's what got my Billy into remission. (Edited to add that I see you already know all about this. Very smart!)

Next, take a look at my signature and the information I have in it. Then click the link where it says "Billy's spreadsheet." You can take a look at his day 5, which completely freaked my fiance and I out. The information in the signature and spreadsheet is invaluable when members are trying to help you with an emergency, or helping you adjust dose. We got awesome help for Billy on day five because I had this filled out. There's instructions for doing both in New? How you can help us help you! It's easy to do, and well worth it.

Last important thing. You should get a hypo emergency kit together and print the instructions on how to handle an emergency. Brian and I had this on day five, and it saved our sanity.

Read everything. Especially the sticky posts in the Health Links/ FAQs section, and the sticky posts at the top of the Lantus section. Your vet has you started out great. They've got you on a good starting dose of a great insulin for cats. Now, the more you learn the less overwhelming it will be. You are taking great care of your kitties. Whether Harley and Winston go into remission, or have to take insulin the rest of their lives, they can have a happy long life because of your good care.

 

[Juls and Billy]

its been a LOT to take in and read and digest all at once so just doing what I can as I can and hoping for the best.

You are doing awesome so far. You've got a good vet and you've been doing your research. It is overwhelming at first, believe me, we all remember it well. Knowledge is power, and the more you know, the better you will feel. It also just takes a little time to get in the swing of things. But look at you! You're already prepared to test for ketones! So smart! If you have trouble getting the urine sample, especially with your boy that pee's outside the box, you can get a blood meter to test for ketones. I got a Precision Xtra from Amazon. It tests blood and ketones, but I only use it for ketones and only bought the ketone strips. Strips are expensive, so I use cheap human meter for daily BGL testing.

 

[Chris S]

Thank you.

We found the food list before we really got downstream thankfully so we haven't wasted too much time or money (yet lol).

My husband just called to tell me we got a urine catch on an upside down pee pad (so it wouldn't absorb) and its freshly in a vial ready for the vet (and the pee stick we have at home to check as well). So we will know shortly if Winston has any ketoacidosis issues in addition to the plethora of things we are working on.

I just beat myself up now more than ever as we had been reading labels etc thinking we were doing the right thing but as Dr Lisa (Laura? gosh I need to re read that catinfo page) said, the details practically require a math degree. I hope we will help the entire house now with the food changes so that no one else gets into this situation as they age. I know its not CAUSED by their food but we could have done a lot more for them had we known what was in the foods before. Lesson learned. BUT now we are on a new and better path.

Def looking into the glucose meter suggested above; I was going to learn w the fancy one at the vet but as we know its not exactly cheap.

Hoping that Winson stops the poopallozza for his sake. poor old man isn't liking that (and neither do we).

 

[Chris S]

Winston after his bath

 

[Chris S]

Harley -poor girl looking so thin but always bright eyes

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi Chris, you are doing great taking care of both those kitties, they are adorable
I know that some members here give PURE PUMPKIN for diarrhea and also helps with constipation

Libby's 100% Pure Pumpkin in a can. It is just pumpkin, no seasonings or anything added. NOT PUMPKIN PIE FILLING

You can ask how much to start off with for Winston. I read that members mix it in with the wet food, or water it down a little and see if he will lick it off the plate

With the pee your husband caught on the pee pad, I'm pretty sure you have to dip the stick in it immediately right after they pee and count 15 seconds and then compare it to the color on the bottle.
Or if you can catch him peeing just put the pee stick in stream of pee as he's going
The directions are one the container about the 15 seconds
Wishing you and those two adorable kitties the very best

I see both are on lantus, for the future, we have a supply closet here under forums
Members that sell many things including lantus pens at very reasonable prices because their kitties have passed.
I have bought many before with no problem. You can take a look at the supply closet just to see what it is

Out of curiosity are you using the U-100 syringes with half unit markings

When we increase or decrease insulin dosages we usually do this by 0.25 or 0.5 units, so not to skip over the dosage that is helping our kitties.

You just buy the syringes and stick the syringe in the pen, there is a little rubber stopper you will see and just draw it from the pen
Are you using the lantus pens or the vial

The meters I used to use the Alpha Trak 2 meter the vdame as my vet uses, the meter is expensive and the test strips are even more expensive
They cost any where from 50.00 to 64.00 depending on where you buy them from
You get 50

I switched to the Relion Prime human meter from Walmart it costs 9.00
The stripes are 17.88 for 50 or a 2 pack 100 strips for around 34.00
I love the meter
Since you have 2 kitties you will be testing multiple times through the day and night to see how the insulin is working its going to be expensive with the pet meter and strips

But of course its what you want to use.
I assume down the road you will be setting up your signature
and a spreadsheet for Winston and Harley

There are instructions how to do it, but if you need help I know that their is a member here willing to set it up for you, just post you need help with setting it up in another thread

You will catch on quickly with how to use it, if I did lol you can and we will always help you
with any questions you have
Its just easier for members to look at your signature and spreadsheet if you ever need help with one of your kitties rather than trying to look back in previous posts to find out what insulin they are on and how much.

You can take a look at my signature and spreadsheet to get an idea or any one elses @Chris S

 

[Chris S]

Hi! Thanks. we do have some libbys on hand since we have 9 it seems someone is always having some issue lol.

We are using the vial but it was the first purchased before I got here. thankfully, we did find marks pharmacy on our own so I am glad to know we are getting best pricing so far that we could find and I see its a recommended Canadian spot from this forum thankfully too

Since this is new for us all, I was wondering about the dosing for Harley. We went from 1 u/2xd to 2 u 2xd and I def see a marked improvement.
Based on her current weight, it looks like her recommended dose would be 1.75-2 but it depends on the kitties from what I can see now. I would like to consider less but don't have the meters yet/haven't gotten comfortable yet to do that. But I am going to cover this with the vet in a few days since now we have TWO to monitor.

Harley was diagnosed jan 31
Winston feb 22

so its all new for me/us.

Our next BG draw is in a few days and I will also begin with our testing then. I am scared to wait but I also know I can only do a little at a time to fully grasp what this new life is for them and us. for now, I can see positive changes for Harley and she is coming out and around etc. I wont give a shot if she wont come to eat. but so far she comes out and eats all we offer.

Winston-we took the pee to the vet because we have a full urinalaysis we paid for with the blood work we ran on Sat so I didn't get to use the strip at that time. Ill save it for next time as I guess we will be testing things for a while...

and yes ill be setting up my member profile very soon thank you!

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi! Thanks. we do have some libbys on hand since we have 9 it seems someone is always having some issue lol.

We are using the vial but it was the first purchased before I got here. thankfully, we did find marks pharmacy on our own so I am glad to know we are getting best pricing so far that we could find and I see its a recommended Canadian spot from this forum thankfully too

Since this is new for us all, I was wondering about the dosing for Harley. We went from 1 u/2xd to 2 u 2xd and I def see a marked improvement.
Based on her current weight, it looks like her recommended dose would be 1.75-2 but it depends on the kitties from what I can see now. I would like to consider less but don't have the meters yet/haven't gotten comfortable yet to do that. But I am going to cover this with the vet in a few days since now we have TWO to monitor.

Harley was diagnosed jan 31
Winston feb 22

so its all new for me/us.

Our next BG draw is in a few days and I will also begin with our testing then. I am scared to wait but I also know I can only do a little at a time to fully grasp what this new life is for them and us. for now, I can see positive changes for Harley and she is coming out and around etc. I wont give a shot if she wont come to eat. but so far she comes out and eats all we offer.

Winston-we took the pee to the vet because we have a full urinalaysis we paid for with the blood work we ran on Sat so I didn't get to use the strip at that time. Ill save it for next time as I guess we will be testing things for a while...

and yes ill be setting up my member profile very soon thank you!

I know what its like for this to be new for you. After awhile you will be a pro at testing.
You will know how to do the spreadsheet we all will help you
After awhile you can move over to the lantus forum and we will show you how to post there, a little different but its easy, if I did it so can you lol
Are you using the syringes with the half unit markings
As you become familiar with filling in their BG numbers on the spreadsheet, you will see how low each of them are doing and how low they are dropping
Depending on their numbers that will tell you if you might have to decrease or increase their dose. When you test them first thing in the morning that number will tell you if its safe to shoot, its not based on how much insulin to give, its the testing you will do after that to determine if you have to change the dose, same thing at night.
I know its too much to take in right now but you will get there
If you want to take a look at my cats spreadsheet when you get a chance
Most cats are stressed out going to the vets and their BG reads higher than if you were testing at home. Don't worry now, you will get there like can said and will become a pro at testing. Sometimes my Tyler will be sound asleep and I can test him and he won't even wake up. One thing at a time to learn

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

I understand. At one time I had 9 cats also. That was not including the litters of kittens I rescued and would find homes for. If you count them, the max would have been 16.

Taking care of two diabetic cats at the same time is just as easy as taking care of one. I did it for several years in addition to having a special needs dog. Once you find a routine that works best for you it will become much easier. When I had two each had their own meter I used for testing. The two main reasons I used separate meters were 1) when I did have to board them my vet was required to test each of them before every shot with my cat's meter and 2) the meters I was using allowed me to download their readings to my computer. Unfortunately they do not make that meter any more. If you use our spreadsheet, you only need 1 meter.

Fortunately my cats were easy to test and would wait for me to test them. Hopefully your cats will be the same. I would test them first, then fix everyone's food and while the cats were eating, give them their shots. Bribery with low carb treats really helps with getting your cat's to accept being tested.

 

[Juls and Billy]

Just popped in to say that Winston and Harley are totes adorbs!

 

[Deb & Wink]

Welcome to Chris S and her 2 (yes count them 2) diabetic cats.
Don't worry about writing a short story about your 2 diabetic kitties. There is a lot to cover for the 2 of them.
No need to be succinct. We'll just ask more questions if you don't tell us at least the basics.

A little early to start posting on the Lantus forum. SS and signature needed first please.

Certainly check out all the "Sticky" or pinned posts at the top of that ISG (Insulin Support Group).

Here is hoping the"poopapalooza" settles down soon for Winston.
The dental issue losing teeth sounds like FORL.

My jaw dropped when I read about your clowder and all their medical issues.

p.s. Was everyone on Hill's W/d dry food?

 

[Chris S]

Thanks!

we are using the reli-on w the half markings syringes yes. Thank goodness Walmart is around the corner from my house.

the whole house was on hills metabolic dry. And some were metabolic wet too. Not anymore .

heard from the front lines at home (I commute to nyc from NJ a few days a week so between 9 cats, a 5 year old, fish, a husband.... it’s going to be a lot to get used to with all this new stuff to the daily routine at home). Sounds like Winston didn’t have a full day poopapallozza today. Hope he’s turning that corner. Everyone else seems to be managing ok today.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Since this is new for us all, I was wondering about the dosing for Harley. We went from 1 u/2xd to 2 u 2xd and I def see a marked improvement.
Based on her current weight, it looks like her recommended dose would be 1.75-2 but it depends on the kitties from what I can see now. I would like to consider less but don't have the meters yet/haven't gotten comfortable yet to do that.

Dosing for lantus is not strictly based on weight. It is also based on the nadir or lowest BG reading you get at mid-cycle.

2U may be too much or too little for Harley. No way to tell until your get some BG readings and get that spreadsheet set up for her. We have a standardized one, so you don't have to "reinvent the wheel". Template you copy and instructions to setup using a pc, tablet or smartphone. Then you can link it in your user profile and it shows up at the bottom of your posts.

The one bright spot (you might not see it as very bright and I don't blame you) in all of this is since both of your cats where likely steroid induced diabetes, that can often be resolved in a few months. After the effects of the steroids have worn off.

Those steroids may have tipped both Harley and Winston into diabetic BG (blood glucose) levels. Steroids do persist in the body for some time, with both humans and felines.

Teeth falling out for "no reason" sounds like
Feline odontoclastic resorptive lesion - FORL
Sounds like Harley had ringworm, a fungus that causes cats to lose fur. Very contagious. Roundworms are long angel hair pasta thin wrigglers in the digestive tract. Vomited up and/or passed in the feces. Drontol is most commonly used to treat, although all cats in the home need treatment and the treatment may need to be longer than the standard 10 days. Been there.

So hyperthyroidism (Hyper-T) ruled out for Harley.
How about for Winston?

Finnegan doing better?

So Winston had "The Surgery." A perineal urethrostomy (PU) is a surgical reconstruction of the tube your pet urinates through called the urethra.

There is a lot going on with your 2 diabetic cats. Not sure I covered everything.

Let us know when you want more information.
Lots of good folks on this message board to help you.

What do you do for stress and anxiety relief? I highly recommend Mindfulness breathing or yoga. Something to focus your mind on you put the daily stresses of life aside. At least for a few minutes.

Welcome and let us know how else we may help you.

 

[Chris S]

Winston will be confirmed by tomrrow about thyroid as blood work due back by am.
Finnegan doing better but hopefully even better soon since we are now a low carb better protein diet here for the house (boy should be 6 lbs lighter st least for the vet to start to celebrate lol). Finnegan blood was clear-no thyroid or diabetes issues.

yes lilly and Harley both likely FORL at some point per the dental vet. Currently both are no longer losing teeth but keeping a watchful eye.

Harley hasn’t had steroid pills in forever but def a few shots over the last 18 mos. I hope our “waiting” until Finn was better and could afford harleyvet visits didn’t cost us time. She’s really thin poor girl but I believe we are making the right changes now. I hope we can get the hang of bg testing quickly as I can see where both could have major swings and will need to track that data very soon. I am hoping to do bg curve by Sunday if I can since we are home. And again for general monitoring on weds next week (not a bg curve but just overall helicopter monitoring lol).

Harley had her very serious pancreatitis attack 9 years ago and I still recall them telling me that she could have issues later but the vet now said they were shocked it took so long if that is part of this process.

i feel like I’m running a nursing home lately with all the grumpy cat baths and injections

 

[Deb & Wink]

i feel like I’m running a nursing home lately with all the grumpy cat baths and injections

Or a cat rescue.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

You may want to try S. boulardii -- it's a probiotic that is very good for treating diarrhea. I prefer it over pumpkin as it works within about 2 days. There are a number of brands. I use ReNew and others here have used Florastar. Both are available on Amazon. You start with 1/4 of a capsule mixed into canned food x2/day. You can increase up to 1/2 a capsule.

There are a number of sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board that you may find helpful. They discuss Lantus, dosing, storing your insulin, etc You'll want to have starting home testing and have your spreadsheet set up before posting on the Lantus forum.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Thanks!

we are using the reli-on w the half markings syringes yes. Thank goodness Walmart is around the corner from my house.

the whole house was on hills metabolic dry. And some were metabolic wet too. Not anymore .

heard from the front lines at home (I commute to nyc from NJ a few days a week so between 9 cats, a 5 year old, fish, a husband.... it’s going to be a lot to get used to with all this new stuff to the daily routine at home). Sounds like Winston didn’t have a full day poopapallozza today. Hope he’s turning that corner. Everyone else seems to be managing ok today.

You have your hands full but you are like a super woman. I'm from N.J. also
Glad the pooping seems to be getting better, cute pic of Haley adorable and Winston is a handsome boy.