New to forum, new sugar kitty Charley

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Charleysmom

Charleysmom

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I'm so glad I found this forum. My 9 year old Charley was just diagnosed last Monday. We noticed his water intake was huge and he was losing weight. His glucose was 565, Fructosamine 680, no ketones. He was prescribed Prozinc 1.5 units twice a day. His glucose today was 325. His vet said it's a step in the right direction and raised his insulin to 2 units. Charley is now meal fed, 1 can of m/d twice a day. Our next step is to try home monitoring. There is just so much information to take in. I am grateful to find others to chat with. We lost our 18 year old kitty to hyperthyroidism in March of 2011, and our 15 year old kitty to kidney failure in July of 2011. Charley's diagnosis hit us so hard, but we will do whatever we can to help him.
 
I feed my Simba m/d due to lack of other food options here in Sweden, but there are many more foods and cheaper that you can buy and feed suitable for diabetics.
 
I can't help with dosing, but I do know that home testing is a tremendous help to knowing what is going on and consequently getting the situation under control (and keeping kitty safe). It is *so* much easier than you might think ahead of time. There's a bit of a learning curve, for both you and the cat, but once you get it down, it's extremely easy and not at all stressful for the cat.

Oh, and for the meals, most diabetics (both feline and, as I understand, human), do better with multiple small meals than with two big meals. As long as the total amount eaten is monitored and you avoid feeding shortly before the PMPS and AMPS (evening and morning tests before the shot), multiple small meals or even free-feeding with the total amount controlled will work fine. I think the "no-food" time before the pre-shot test is 2 hours. The purpose of this is so you will get a blood glucose number not affected by any food.
 
Thank you for your input. Our vet's office has multiple vets and many "fill in" personnel. We initially took him in on 1/13, where the first vet said his glucose was over 500 and Charley had a UTI. They drew labs and had us come back in 1/16. On 1/16 we saw a different vet, who said the first vet felt 3 units twice a day would be appropriate, but she disagreed and lowered it to 1.5. This vet also recommended we reuse needles and said there was no reason not to. :shock: Today we took him in again to yet a third vet, so we said that if we couldn't see a consistent person we would need to change to a different office. We've also been told different feeding schedules and types now. We don't know what to believe. The first vet said 2 meals a day, 12 hours apart and dry Hill's m/d only - 1/2 cup each time. The second vet said free feeding was fine and any food was ok. Today's vet said canned Hill's m/d only, one can twice a day. You can see why we are confused. We are also baffled of how to maintain a once a week vet visit, not only financially - but to take a half day of work since the visit must be between 6-8 hours after he receives his insulin. Trying not to let it overwhelm us, but holy moly it is.
 
Hi there! Since I am a newbie myself I thought I'd give you my input from what I have learned in only just over a month. My hubby is diabetic so I'm familiar with testing & insulin & all, but I had no idea how different it is with kitties. Let me tell you this...this site is a Godsend!!!! I highly recommend getting a spreadsheet set up. It looks totally daunting but really isn't. I also HIGHLY recommend home testing. It's the ONLY real way to see what kitty is doing. Bgs change considerably throughout the day. Once you get used to the testing it's no big deal at all and the spreadsheet they already have provided is so wonderful. You will feel so much more in control knowing what is happening in his little body. You can check out Sam's to see how it works. What kind of insulin is kitty on? Just post in your subject that you need help with a spreadsheet and you will get it!! Marjorie even called me and helped me do it over the phone!! I'm not gonna say to not go to your vet, but from my experience and after $$ later, I found this forum to be the most helpful "vet" ever. I can't stress it enough. These guys have been the ones to completely help me get my feet on the ground and I am just so amazed at how much I have learned so quickly. If you have a question, they are right there to help. I was completely off with my dosing in the beginning and once I started getting help, it totally made sense to me and as you can see by Sam's spreadsheet, it has worked!

Enough for now, but I highly encourage you to read all the newbie information in the different stickies etc., and ask questions!! You will get awesome answers. These people are serious professionals and so very, very loving! As they told me in the beginning, take a breath, try to relax, it will be ok!

Take care,
Donna
 
Welcome 'home' extra sweet Charley and MamaBean!

Most of us arrived just as confused as you are but there's a lot of people that will help unconfuse you.

None of that expensive food needed, we feed Friskies pates, Fancy Feast, 9 lives, some store brands that are just as good and in some cases, actually better.

The MOST money and BEST investment you can make is to home test. It will keep fuzzybutt safe and give you a LOT less panic. After learning the dance, you and he can do it with your eyes closed. I used to test KT in only one place but now I usually go wherever he is, he just turns his head for me - fits our lifestyle better. 30 seconds later he's going back to sleep. Get some free-dried treats for each pokie, you'll be very glad you did - and - NO, CHARLEY WON'T HATE YOU!

I don't use ProZinc so can't give dosing advice but will send a BIG BIG HUG! Understand the grief of losing our babies, we just lost one 2 weeks ago and almost lost another last week.

Another big hug,
 
Welcome to the best place around you could have found for you and your Charley baby! cat_pet_icon The folks here are super friendly and freely share their hands on, day in and day out won knowledge. Be sure to ask anything! I would have been lost without them. :smile:

First, good on you for wanting to do what you can to help your Charley! :-D I'm sure Charley would do the same for you, now wouldn't he? ;-)

Second, conflicting information can be frustrating, whether it comes from the vet's office or elsewhere. Sometimes you just have to take what works for you and your kitty and leave the rest.

As far as food, many cats won't eat the prescribed stuff for very long. There's a bunch of alternatives, often for a much lower price, located on Janet and Binky's list (I have a link under Poopy's info below). Poopy is my cat, by the way. :-D What we look for are carbs <10, and some go for <7 or less! :smile: If Charley won't eat the prescribed stuff, or you'd rather do an alternative, just return the food to the vet and say Charley won't eat it. Finding a dry food with <10 carbs isn't easy. Besides, kitties need the moisture from wet food anyway so most of us feed canned. Some do higher end fresh/raw foods. Also, some free feed throughout the day, some do feed timers, and some do two feedings.

Many cats' BGs will lower switching to canned low carb! There's also some cats who end up not needing insulin at all after a diet change to all wet! I don't hope for that with Poopy, and it may not happen for Charley, but knowing how food effects our kitties does make a difference. :smile:

I strongly urge you to home test, even if all the vets at your vet office disagree. How can you possibly know how the insulin is effecting Charley without home testing? Even vets know most cats stress going to their office, and stress can raise BG levels. I had to find a vet who wouldn't tear off my head when mentioning home testing. Happened to have found a great vet (who happens to have a diabetic offspring and understands the day in and day out care needed for diabetes)! We do what we have to for our kitties. :-D

To get started on home testing, either click on the link for newbies on the main page for a newbie kit, or pick up a meter the next time you're at a pharmacy. Many folks here use the Relion by Wal-Mart with much success. Seems the strips are the cheapest around, too. If you do pick up a meter, avoid any with "True" in the name, and until they figure out the cause, I'd stay away from "Freestyle" as well. If picking up a meter, don't forget to pick up a package of strips, and the larger (smallest number, 25-27) lances.

Home testing need not be scary. It took me a bit to get it down, so if I can do it, so can you! :-D There's tons of folks here who can help you through it. :-D

Welcome again, and be sure to let us know how we can help you help your Charley. :-D
 
Hi,
Conflicting advice is definitely NOT a good thing!

The first vet said 2 meals a day, 12 hours apart and dry Hill's m/d only - 1/2 cup each time. The second vet said free feeding was fine and any food was ok. Today's vet said canned Hill's m/d only, one can twice a day.
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First vet - wrong. Dry food is not good, and Hill's M/D is very not good.
Second Vet - sort of right, but not quite. Free feeding is okay, and mulitple small meals seem to work really well for many diabetic cats, but "any food"? Not right.
Third Vet - Again, Hill's M/D is NOT a good food for diabetic cats. Too high in carbs, and way more expensive than it has to be. Friskees pate flavors, Fancy Feast Classics, WalMart's Special Kitty? All lower in cost and better for diabetic cats. Plenty of other good and inexpensive choices.

Here are some links for you so that you can decide of a food selection. The most important factor is carbs. For diabetics, the fewer carbs the better. And all canned if you can convince kitty to eat canned. Dry food is bad for all cats, and here's a link that will help explain why. (Might want to share this link with the vet(s) who recommended dry food)
http://catinfo.org/

Canned Food Lists -
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodOld.html
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Look for foods that are 7% carbs or less in the carbs column. While you are there, check out the carb content on that prescription Hill m/d too. Oh, the Hills dry m/d? It has a carb value of 13%.
 
Others might have said this, but should you decide to home test (definitely would highly suggest it!), hold off on changing the diet. The switch to lower carbs will lower Charley's BG a bit, and you want to see how much. You might also consider staying with the 1.5 rather than upping it to 2.0 units. It might be a good idea to drop it to 1u before changing food. If the change in diet drops his numbers, that 1.5 or 2.0 might end up being "too much" insulin.

It's a great idea to switch to low carb, home test, and then start insulin. Not really an option for you at this point, but you could more or less "start over" by dropping to 1 unit per shot along with the lower carb food, as long as you start home testing first.
 
I appreciate everyone's responses. I will look into the other foods. Right now we have the jumbo bag of dry m/d and 24 cans of the m/d. Sigh. So much info to take in. I just gave him his first dose of 2 units. I'm hesitant to give less than the doctor has prescribed right now.
 
Charleysmom said:
I appreciate everyone's responses. I will look into the other foods. Right now we have the jumbo bag of dry m/d and 24 cans of the m/d. Sigh. So much info to take in. I just gave him his first dose of 2 units. I'm hesitant to give less than the doctor has prescribed right now.
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We understand that BUT vets are usually trained on feline diabetes as a few hour course while we live it every day. Vets cannot specialize like that altho' there are a very few that do. Their 'updating' is done by company reps such as Hills and Walmart pharmacy rep.

Take the food back and tell them your cat won't eat it ('cos you won't let him) - they'll give you your money back because Hills rep will give THEM the money back.

Hugs...
 
Just in case, please read and print out this topic on Hypos.

You may not need it...but if you do, you need to be prepared.

I only say this because my vet told me to up Poopy's dose to 2u and if I had followed his directions I would have needed the hypo info. :smile:

It's ok to follow your vet. It's also ok to question your vet. We do the same for our own doctors. ohmygod_smile

Please remember, 50% of the doctors out there were in the bottom half of their graduating class. ;-)
 
Yes, Charley's Mom, you can return the m/d to the vet. I did. Lots of us have. They'll give you your money back, and probably use the open bag to feed kitties in the clinic with it. They can resell the cans. You'll be able to buy twice as much food at the grocery store with the refund.
 
I'm hesitant to give less than the doctor has prescribed right now.
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Totally understand that. Ideally, all vets would know everything about feline diabetes, but unfortunately, it isn't something they have to deal with every day. My vet sees about 3 new cases a year. Over her 30 year career, maybe 100 cats. In that time, a lot has been discovered and studied about FD. They can't know everything about everything, but they have to know something about everything. Many can't keep up with every advance or discovery, unless they have the time and the desire to focus on just one of a thousand different diseases and conditions.

The best scenario would be for you and your vet to learn more about diabetes together. Print out and share anything you find useful on this board. A really good vet will thank you for that and you may find their thinking might change. Plus it might benefit the next diabetic cat they see, and every one after that.

There's a ton of information here. And tons of people who have learned to treat feline diabetes here. Even when we've learned a lot, even after some of our cats have gone into remission, we still stick around, because every one of us was once in "your shoes", and the wonderful people we "met" here helped us out. So we try to pay it back by sharing with every new person that arrives. We're just a little overzealous at times :lol:
 
HELLO to Charley & his momma~

welcome welcome welcome!

success story here that I must share as I feel my sugar Bean is definately a success in many ways.

First, she is still here with me today...that is the biggest success...if it were not for this forum and wonderful ppl here ~ this would not have happened. They taught me gently to test at home (vet did not think neccessary). They taught me to watch that insulin amount vrs foods/bg numbers.

Second, she is in remission. Again this forum taught me the foods list to feed from, sites to visit and read and learn. So, off the the stores with my binky list. Now she is diet controlled.

Third, because she was home tested, her hypo from too much insulin (advised from the vet) and lower carb foods was caught and she SURVIVED!!! (as you can view in her spreadsheet).

I guess I just would sooo strongly suggest and encourage to home test so that you know what Charley is doing with his insulin and foods. He will be less stressed at home and your pocketbook will rest (lol).

All of this is doable and Charley will repay you tenfold by the way his body will responde!

Bean has not been back to that vet or any other vet once I was able to do those curves at home..

However, I do have 2 other civvies and they have been seen by a vet in the past yr., many times. And I will also share with you that we are now on vet #4! I will stand up for what my girls need and I think this one is the one??? we will see and if not, I will shop and look until I find one that I feel my girls are safe with...

AND, now you have us too!!! :smile:

Ask anything and you will get an answer or two!
 
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