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felinecrafty

Member Since 2013
My name is Karen and my 11 year old tuxedo cat named Mim was diagnosed with diabetes last Thursday. Her glucose reading was 400. She has recently lost a lot of weight, eats like a horse, drink a lot and pees a lot.
The vet suggested Purina DM at first. Mim was not a fan. So we have switched her to Friskies, 9 Lives tuna canned food. She eats around 5 am and 4:30 pm. We are waiting for a follow up appointment on the 15th of this month to begin insulin(Lantus). The vet wanted to get the diet readjusted before giving insulin. So it will be a little over 2 weeks when we revisit the vet to begin insulin. (retest at that point) I have also purchased a BG machine so that I can start testing at home.
Just wanted to introduce myself and Mim. She is sitting on my lap as I type this! She still has a voracious appetite..but her water consumption has decreased a bit since starting the canned food/high protein diet. I think that this is encouraging? She has not gained any weight. She weighs 8.2 pounds...she was around 10.5.
She also has a brother Pip who has been introduced to the high protein diet. He is not taking it as well as his sister. He will benefit from a better diet without all of the carbs..he is a big boy(15 pounds)
 
Hi Karen and welcome to the FDMB!!! You're in the right place to learn everything you need to know about managing feline diabetes!

It's great that you're all ready to start home testing too! Your vet is correct in waiting until you've tried lowering the carbs in food before starting on insulin. Dropping to under 10% carbs can drop the Blood Glucose by 100 points...and when tested at the vets office, Mim would be stressed, and that stress can add up to 200 points!

Don't worry about the DM...you can do better for less money by using any of the foods on Dr. Pierson's Food Chart that are under 10% carbs (Column C)

The 9Lives tuna is fine!

Once you get Mim's BG under better control, you'll notice her appetite will decrease as well as the water drinking and peeing. Since Mim's pancreas isn't producing enough insulin, her body can't convert the nutrition from food so she eats more and more. They're literally starving even when they're eating massive amounts of food.

We have lots of tricks to help with those kitties that don't think wet food is edible too..Hopefully Pip will find his "inner carnivore" and realize that the wet food is something he should consider "food"......LOL

Good luck to you and please feel free to ask any questions you might have!!
 
Welcome Karen and Mim, and Pip, to the world of feline diabetes. :YMHUG:
We can help you to get Mim feeling better and I'm glad you have he glucometer and are ready to start home testing.

Good luck with getting everyone on the low carb wet foods, and lowering those BGs.
 
Thanks so much for the warm welcomes and reassurances! I hope to have my BG monitor by Saturday. I ordered it on Amazon.

I hope that Mim will not need much insulin and that we can help control her diabetes with high protein. Hope her number is down when I test as soon as I get my monitor.

The vet said to aim for food that is at least 50% protein and less than 10% carb. Does FF meet these requirements?

Thanks so much! Mim and I thank you!!!
 
What meter did you get? Most of us use an inexpensive human glucometer like the WalMart ReliOn Confirm or Prime, which are inexpensive, use small blood drops, and have inexpensive test strips too.
 
Karen, in my reply is a link to Dr. Pierson's Food Chart...It will show you how many carbs pretty much any food you can buy has in it. (Column C)

You want to keep it under 10% carbs, and yes, Fancy Feast Classic varieties are OK....buy a couple of the Gravy Lovers kinds too in case you need it sometime. When you get a test result in the low 30's is no time to need some high carb food and not have any. Just make sure you keep the Gravy Lovers separate so you don't accidentally feed it for a "normal" meal.

What kind of meter did you order off of Amazon? Did you check into how much the replacement strips were? We recommend the Relion from WalMart (for anyone living in the US) because the strips are cheap, and they're available when you need them. You don't want to run out of strips in the middle of a hypo, so always make sure you have a backup package of strips for your meter.

Again, welcome, and we'll be looking forward to working with you and Mim!
 
Mim woke me up at 2 am today because she was hungry. I caved and fed her around 3 (just a spoonful or canned food) I fed her again at her regular feeding time 5am.
Is this normal? Hope that this issue is resolved once we start insulin on the 15th?
 
Yes, her appetite is normal for a diabetic. Most of us feed multiple small meals throughout the day and night. I leave wet food out for grazing. Keeping it hydrated with water will put water in her digestive track so she won't have to consume so much from the water bowl. When her numbers come down and she gets regulated, her appetite will return to normal. My cats had to learn to graze on Tiki Cat chicken after I took up the dry - it tames their bad hunger behavior.

You are doing all the right things. Sounds like you have a decent vet in recommending the diet change before insulin and is ok with home testing. Don't let Pip manipulate you back to dry. They can be won over.

Welcome to the sugardance. You are off to a good start and we are here to help you with the testing and any other questions or suggestions you have or request.
 
Thanks for the help! I give two meals (5 am and 4:30 pm) and have recently given a snack (chicken) before bed. I will try to leave out some wet food after I go to bed tonight. Should I also leave out some when I leave for work?
 
I do leave out wet food while I am at work during the day and at night - especially at night or my civvie will lick the skin off my nose until I wake up :lol: My sugarkitty is much nicer about it - he just purrs loudly into my ear. Initially they would eat it the minute I put it down but they have learned to leave it for nibbling. Cats really are adaptable - they may want you to think that they are not but I think that they are.
 
Mim has been drinking a lot less water these past three days. I hope that this is good news. (maybe her BG levels are coming down with the high protein diet) I hope to have my monitor today so that I can test her. When should I do the first test?
 
If she isn't yet on insulin, testing before you feed and again about 2-3 hours after putting down fresh food will show you how much of a food spike she gets in her glucose.

When you are giving insulin, always test before you shoot, for safety. We suggest not giving insulin below 200 ml/dL until you have test data showing it does not take the cat's glucose too low. By too low, we mean < 50 mg/dL for a cat diabetic for less than 1 year or if longer that 1 year, a dip below 40 mg/dL.
 
Will Mim's water consumption decrease as her numbers come down? She has been on high protein diet for a week now and her water consumption has decreased by 75% of what she used to drink. Is this normal? Decreased urine output as well the past two days.
 
Yes, reduced thirst and urination are great signs! Sounds like you're doing well!

Reduced appetite and returning to grooming are also some of the telltale signs that things are better!
 
Absolutely water drinking will decrease. Also, the litterbox won't be swamped.

Check my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools which has a number of ways to assess how your cat is doing.
 
Welcome to the board!

What are you feeding her now then? Did you change to a lower carb wet?

Let us know and we can advise how much to feed based on her weight. While she is unregulated we want to feed her enough so she wont starve

Wendy
 
She is eating 9 Lives and Friskies tuna/tuna with egg/tuna with cheese. She also has had FF ocean whitefish and chunky chicken fest.
She eats a whole can of the large tuna a day along with some Purina DM wet (about 1/4 of large can) Just introduced the FF today. The vet recommended 2/3 large can of Purina DM twice a day. Had to switch up flavors and brands for her!

I have also been adding a few tablespoons of water in to the food. She has not been drinking nearly as much water out of the bowl yesterday and today. She is still urinating though.
 
Ok some of those foods are too high in carbs.. Did you look at the list china gave you in her link above? You want column c (% calories from carbs) under 10%. As soon as possible because it may well prevent her going on insulin at all.

Fancy feast classic pâtés are good, so is the canned DM and any friskies pâté.

Any food in gravy such as the friskies with cheese is too high jn carbs.

Some of the nine lives are good but some are too high carb such as the carvings, nibbles and slices.

The list china gave you also shows the calories in each food. Here's a formula for how much to feed.
How much to feed? Required calories per day = [13.6 X ideal weight in lbs] + 70
It's a good starting point but weigh her once every couple of weeks and adjust food quantity accordingly.
Wendy
 
I only feed her the 9 Lives and Friskies tuna varieties ( all low carb) and the FF are low carb according to the list from China. Thanks for the help with how much to feed.
Hope to try a BG test tomorrow with my new meter.

Will keep you posted.
 
So...here's an update. Mim has been eating high protein/low carb for 11 days now. Her water consumption and urine output has decreased A LOT. But she still has an increased appetite and has not gained weight.
We return to the vet on Tuesday of next week to retest and start insulin.
I tried to test her BG levels last night but could not get any blood from her ear. I will enlist my husband to help tonight.

Just wanted to know what you think about her status. I appreciate any input!

Thanks!
 
The diet is good and the water consumption is good but I would think that getting her on insulin will help her gain weight because the diabetes is starving her. You are doing all the right things for her. Keep working on getting her used to regular testing - set place, treat or other reward etc. You're doing great.
 
Welcome Karen and Mim!

Keep up the good work you are doing so far. It's hard sometimes to get the blood from the ear, warming it will help. I found that using a sock filled with rice (warmed in the microwave 25 secs) held on the back of the ear really helps with that, also to have between your hand and back of the ear to keep from pricking yourself. I think it also lowers the clicking sound of the lancet pen.

I have also personally found that it works better to be down in front of my cat, not over him restraining him. Just that alone gets him feeling anxious. Not sure how you are doing it, but wanted to throw that out there because that was my experience and perhaps it will help you. It also helps to get Mim used to you touching her ears.
 
I have had two unsuccessful attempts to get enough blood for the meter to read. There's always tomorrow! I must get a reading tomorrow as we are going out of town this weekend. I want a few numbers to share with the vet on Tuesday.
My friend will come and feed the cats twice a day for me. She will also leave out a little canned food for the evening. I am hesitant about going away but she is not on insulin yet. Her feeding schedule will be a bit off in the morning but I am sure that she will be okay.
She is eating (not quite as much) and not drinking nor urinating nearly as much as before. Again...all good signs I am told by people here.
I am thankful that I found this forum.

I will post numbers tomorrow. Keep my in your thoughts.
 
One word of caution on food....you want to limit the fishy flavors to about once a week especially since you also have a male as well. Too much fish isn't good for them.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn and The Fur Gang
 
I was finally able to get a sample! (with the help of my husband) We used the mini pen that came with the appha tracker. ANyway...tested at 7:30 and it was 359. This was after my son gave her some rotisseire chicken off of his plate. Her number at vet was over 400. So....we are going to the vet on Tuesday to retest and get insulin prescription. (Lantus) I will have my husband help to test again in the morning before she eats. Water consumption and urination has decreased. Hope that the diet is helping her some....
We are going away so I will not be able to test again until Monday late afternoon. My friend will come to feed the cats on their schedule. She will also leave a little bit of canned out for the nights.
Thanks for all of the input. I just hope to get her body back into sync. She my sweet little girlie!
 
Good job, welcome to the vampire club!

Assuming its just regular cooked chicken then it shouldn't impact her blood sugar. How long has she been on the low carb, it might take a few days to drop down?

Get a test before and an hour after eating to see the impact of food.. And some spot checks once you get back and we will see if she is dropping any more, before you put her on insulin.

Wendy
 
She has been on a low carb diet for two weeks now. I think that they inject the chicken with broth with sugar while cooking?
I will check again in the morning before she eats and after. I will post results.

Hope that BG continues to go down before Tuesday when we start the insulin.
 
Ok cool. I didn't know that about rotisserie chicken but I don't have it often anyway, my boys get home made plain grilled stuff.
 
Mim's morning reading was 458! This was before she ate. Could this be dawn phenomenon? It was 100 points lower last night. I had to make three attempts to get a sample this morning. Could this also have stressed her out? I hope to try another reading before we leave.
I will then test when we come home on Monday.
 
Poszibilities include big dinner with less activity overnight and meter variance.

Meters for sale in the US are allowed to read within 20% of what a lab would get.as the numbers get larger, the range in which it could read gets wider.
Ex
50 -> 40 to 60; span of 20 mg/dL
500 -> 400 to 600; span of 200 mg/dL

When you have high numbers, the actual number is moot. High is high. If on insulin, you look for explanations - high carb or contraband food, infection (dental/oral, bladder/renal, respiratory are common), or response to unaccustomed lows.
 
Sounds like she might be going to need insulin.

Anyway once you get back lets see where she is. Also with these numbers can you test her for ketones? You can get urine ketone test strips from Walmart and dip them in her pee. Ketones are sign of diabetic ketoacidosis which is expensive and serious to treat. Anything over trace means a vet visit. We can advise ways of getting her pee.

Wendy
 
I will buy some on monday on my way home. vet visit tuesday. sure that we will start insulin then. will check bg when we get home monday.
 
Took Mim to the vet for checkup. BG at vet was over 400. Gave her first insulin dose ( 1 unit) after she ate at 5. Tested BG at 8. Already down to 327. Will test again in am before she eats and gets insulin.
So far so good.
 
What kind of insulin is it? Y

ou want to get a test before every shot but also mid cycle (depending on the insulin) to see how low its taking her - if she goes under 50 you should reduce the dose.

Also we dont advise newbies shoot if the preshot test is under 200 , since you dont have enough data to know how she will behave. This is why its important to feed after (or the same time as ) you shoot, and to not feed for 2 hours prior to the shot... so that the preshot test isnt influenced by food.

Wendy
 
Hi again Karen...and extra sweet Mim too!

The numbers you get at the vet are always going to be higher than you'd get at home, because the stress of the vet visit can raise it up to 200 points higher. That's one of the reason's we're so big on home testing. If (for example) your cat tested at 350 at the vet, it would be possible that at home, that number MIGHT be closer to 150.

You have started on a good dose though. 1 unit twice a day is what we usually recommend.

Which insulin did you start on today?

It'll be very important now for you to get at least 4 tests a day in. The 2 that are most important, are the pre-shot tests. You always want to test before you shoot so you don't give insulin to a cat with a low number to start with. We suggest when you're first starting out that you don't shoot anything under 200. If you get a "no shot" number, don't feed, don't shoot, and stall. Retest in 30 minutes and use that time to post here and ask for help through those first few times at least.

The other times are during the AM cycle, somewhere between +5 and +7 is another test you need to try to get. It helps to find what Mim's nadir is (the point in the cycle where the insulin is working it's best)

On the PM cycle, get a "before bed" test so you have some idea where the numbers might go overnight. Most cats go lower at night, so if it looks like Mim might go too low, you can set an alarm to get up and test later if you need to.

Of course the more tests you can get at other times, the more complete the picture will be, and you'll learn faster how Mim responds to insulin and food.

Good luck on this new adventure! We'll all be here to support you while you learn the steps of this sugardance!
 
Thanks for the support. We are using Lantus.

We will test in the morning. My husband and I both work so we will not be able to test BG levels again until before she eats at 5 tomorrow night. We can do a curve this weekend.

I will continue to share results. Thanks again for the feedback! It makes me feel better that we are helping her live a long and happy life!
 
Mim's BG was 281 this morning before food and insulin. Gave her 1 unit after she ate. Seems like the insulin is doing its job. Will test again tonight before her other dose.
 
Welcome Karen & Mim :-D

Just wanted to welcome both of you and let you know that we are all here to help you. Gobbles is my (still-sugary sweet) diabetic cat in remission. He was diagnosed in November 2012 and went "OTJ" (off the juice) this past May. Without the help, support, compassion and guidance of FDMB members, I am scared to think where we'd be at now with his diagnosis. This all gets easier, believe me. Please ask ANY questions you have. Good luck!
 
Mims bg was 308 before her evening shot. Her morning bg today was 468. we are on day 2 of insulin. My husband did give her a few non diabetic treats before the tes. so i am sure that is the reason for high bg today
 
You cant tell how the insulin is working from preshot tests - the key is how low the insulin is taking her during the cycle. Which is why mid cycle tests are important. ie this is how lantus works:

Example of an active Lantus cycle:

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle). This is the number you base dose changes on!!
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.

Also for the first week the Lantus needs to build up the depot. This means the insulin builds up in the cats system over time before you see the complete impact of a dose. It takes a week at first for the cat to get used to the insulin and the depot to build up. After that any dose change takes 2-3 days for it to build up in the cats system and before you see an impact.

More info: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139

Wendy
 
Mim's pre shot BG numbers were high today. (450 and 428- morning and evening before eating and insulin) So is this normal for the second day of insulin? Her numbers were in the low 300's and high 200's the day before.

So it will take a week to build up the insulin and her body to adjust? I will be able to do a curve this weekend on Sunday. I will post those for input. Thanks again for the valuable info!!!
 
Mim's pre shot and food reading this morning was 502 after several attempts to get blood from her ear. (my husband did it before I got up) Thoughts or input appreciated....
 
There's just no way to say for sure what's going on with only pre-shot numbers. It's possible that during the cycle, Mim is going really low, and then "bouncing" when her liver panics and releases hormones and sugars to bring her glucose back up to where it's "used to" being.

Bounces can go really high and take up to 72 hours to clear, but without any mid-cycle numbers, there's no way to know if she's bouncing, needs more insulin, or just needs more time.

I understand you have problems during the day getting a mid-cycle, but could you start trying to get the pre-shot tests and one "before bed" test? That may help fill in the picture some.

It'll also help if you'll start using our spreadsheet. With Lantus, we look for "patterns" in the cycles, and keeping your readings on our spreadsheet makes it easier for you to keep track, as well as we can check it too and help advise you. Here's the link to Setting up a spreadsheet

For now, it's still important that you always get pre-shot tests, just to make sure she is high enough to get insulin, but you just started "filling the depot" on Tuesday, so it's just your 5th cycle out of up to 14 cycles when you're first getting started. I know it seems like she's not getting anywhere, but it's still just too soon to know what might be going on...and I know you're probably tired of hearing it, but without more mid-cycle tests, it's impossible to say with any certainty what's going on.

Hopefully over the weekend you'll be able to get more tests in so we can all really see what might be going on and help advise you what to do going forward.
 
Been giving Lantus 1 unit in am and pm for 9 days now. We have had two days (Tuesday and THursday this week) where she did not need insulin in the evening. (readings 98 and 135) Her morning readings were 430 and 410 the next day after no insulin the evening before.
I plan to get more readings in between this weekend. Just initial thoughts on why so low in pm? Vet said she may only need 1/2 unit instead of 1. We return to vet in two weeks.
She also seems to be gaining some weight. (drinking less)

Did one mid cycle reading last Sunday and did not notice much of a drop...342 am (pre insulin and eating)/ 352 6 hours later/ 503 pm ( pre insulin and eating)
 
With a cat in active diabetes, I would not skip the shot - that is why your following morning was so high, because you skipped. Try switching to a lower dose if you're worried while you learn how she reacts to the insulin - it's better to be consistent on a lower dose, than inconsistent on a higher with these long-lasting insulins. There is no such thing at this point as not needing the insulin :)

Also, if you're still having a hard time taking BG, I wouldn't bother with the automatic pens. I just do it by hand - quick prick, no clicking sounds, and my cat barely notices now. The way I do it, is that I sit him in my lap like you would a child, holding him upright with one arm which goes underneath his front arms and comes around back to help with the ear prick. Then scratch his face a lot and he's happy.

I'd also suggest posting daily in the Lantus support group - you'll get a lot more attention from experienced people over there :)
 
You might go with a 0.75 unit dose if you are skipping shots due to low pre-shot numbers. You'll have to eyeball at as syringes don't mark that.
 
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