New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the house

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turbocat

turbocat

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Hi,

My name is Jenny and my kitty boy Chester was diagnosed with diabetes on Thursday, 1/26. I love my cats very much but rarely take them to the vet because they are always inside and rarely have problems. But lately someone was peeing A LOT and since Chester is an obese Manx he was my first suspect. The girl on the phone at the vet thought I was crazy, I think, when I said I wanted to bring him in for a blood test, since really he has had no symptoms other than the pee. His blood sugar was in the 420's so they drew more blood and I am not sure exactly what else they check, but the diagnosis was diabetes. I knew he was fat, and diabetes was a possibility, but he's a big Manx, so I always brushed it off as not actually something he would get. I have some feelings of guilt that I let him get so fat, but I have 4 other cats and always felt it would be impossible to monitor his eating when I wanted to make sure everyone else had enough to eat. Thursday I was busy and didn't have a lot of time to think about it, but Friday when it was all sinking in I thought I was going to have a meltdown. I love all my cats, but this one I am especially close to, because he is very affectionate.

I have a close friend that had a diabetic cat (that she eventually lost to cancer) that she was able to treat with a strict diet until he was able to get off insulin entirely. I would love to be able to do that eventually but feel so overwhelmed because the food is so stinking expensive and I have 4 other cats! Of course, the vet sent me home with insulin and the D/M. I later returned the D/M because I didn't want to get started on something so expensive. I was told about this grain-free kibble at Tractor Supply (small town here) called Taste of the Wild, Rocky Mountain variety. I contacted them on facebook and found out the carb content is 19.7%. Not great, but the D/M was 18% so not much worse then that. My plan at the moment is to convert every one of my cats over to this grain-free food, and what I am doing is putting the food down first in the morning, leaving it out about 2 hrs, but giving Chester his shot right after he eats. Since he's hungry then, this works out. THen put the food up until evening and put it back down for a couple hours. (My cats eat in shifts. Pushy ones go first, others wait until they clear out) Since he doesn't always eat right before the shot time in the evening, I've gotten some canned food to give him a spoonful to eat before the shot. But now I am wondering about the canned food all the time for everyone idea. We've always done dry food and free feeding. (I know, probably not the greatest idea.)

So, has anyone dealt with having multiple cats when only one is diabetic and how did you handle it? Anyone use the food I am trying? Should I go with canned? Every now and then I feel a rush of anxiety, but I really enjoyed that "letter from your cat" post! Also, I have some testing supplies on the way, so hopefully I will be able to handle that! Sorry for such a long post, and thanks for reading and feedback!

Jenny and Chester
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

welcome.

I have 4 cats and 2 are diabetic. It can be done as many others here will tell you.

OK you want to switch to low carb wet food but don't waste your money on the expensive vet foods.
You can feed any fancy feast, friskies, or 9Lives pate foods, no grilled or gravies. Since you have started insulin, pick up a blood glucose meter, test strips, and lancets from the pharmacy, and learn to home test. Switch to the wet food and see if you have a DIET CONTROLLED kitty.

NO dry food is good, so just go with the wet which is better for all of your cats.

What insulin are you using and what dose?
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

Thanks for your reply!

Chester is taking Prozinc (U-40) , 3 units twice a day. We go to the vet Thursday morning before food or insulin for a follow-up. I am seriously considering the change to wet food for their regular feedings. My only concern is, do kitties get hungry in between 12 hr spaced feedings? The very nice webmaster Rebecca is mailing me a meter today so I am going to start doing that. I'm starting to feel hopeful just knowing there are so many nice people on this board. Thanks for reading my posts! :)
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

I have four cats with one being dx'd 1/2/2012. They were all free fed dry before. Because of this forum, I decided to attempt the switch to wet food for all four cats with special attention on my sugarkitty. She took to the wet food no problem, she absolutely loves it! However, my three boys are addicted to dry food and are very set in their grazing ways. I don't want to push a completely wet diet on my boys right now because we are moving soon and they don't need that added stress. So this is what I do...

Morning: Test Morlei, give her wet food "meal", shot. Boys go into separate room with their wet food. Boys stay in room for about 1/2 hour to allow them a little time to graze. I then give them some Blue Basics dry mixed into whatever wet they didn't eat. Whatever wet isn't eaten and has no dry in it is left out for whoever wants it.
After work: Test Morlei, give her wet food "snack". Boys get wet food "snack" as well. No dry.
Night: Repeat of morning.
Before Bed: Wet food "snack" for any and all who want it. Boys get a small portion of dry before bed.

I base my schedule on the fact that human diabetics are told to eat several small meals a day, so why not kitties as well?
Once we move I will gradually get the boys off the dry but we are all stressed right now and I have to make sure they eat enough. It has made a difference though, their fur is so soft and they don't shed as much anymore and my one boy that has had some urinary issues in the past has not peed outside of the litter box in over 2 weeks.
It was tough and very frustrating but now I see that it was totally worth it...just take it day by day.
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

Hi Jenny and Chester,

Yes, wet LO carb is best (see this website by a vet www.catinfo.org) BUT do not change over until you are testing at home.

We suggest starting at one unit of ProZinc. Three units is a large dose and the dry food may be keeping him from a hypo. When we changed Oliver from dry to wet, he went down 100 points overnight. If we hadn't been testing, we would have overdosed him.

I sent a message to Mel. She has 12 cats with one diabetic so can give you great advice on how to manage the food.

I am glad you are getting the hometesting supplies. To get Chester ready, find a place where you plan to test - maybe a blanket or towel on the bed or couch. Put him there with some treats and start messing with his ears, heating them with a rice sack or a pill bottle filled with hot water. By the time the meter arrives, he will be used to the routine.

As soon as you get some numbers, you can see how the insulin is working. Then change the food, and I'll bet you will start reducing the dose.

Here is a huge document on ProZinc. Too big for one reading but full of great stuff.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

Do not removed the dry food until you can test. You will be removing a lot of carbs and that starting dose of 3 units b.i.d. is high. We usually start at 1 unit and slowly work our way up. Some fat cats actually need less than some tiny little cats.
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

Thanks folks! As far as his dose, I am a little concerned on how I will know what to lower it to. Is there a guide for that? Also, he weighs almost 20 pounds and his sugar was really high, so maybe that's why the vet set it at that? I am absolutely terrified of hypo. I'm staring at him a lot, haha. Plus this morning he had a very small sore spot where fur was missing. I am assuming some playing with his little brother got rough last night when the humans were sleeping, but I'm paranoid. This isn't possibly something from insulin is it?? If he didn't just get diagnosed I wouldn't have thought much of it, but now part of me is worried.
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

Sorry, forgot to mention the sore was on his face. And should I lower his insulin now? Like to 2 units BID?
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

The problem is that numbers gotten at the vet are usually much higher than ones at home. All those strange noises, smells, animals and people who are "not the mommy". Then doses based on those inflated numbers can be too high once he gets home. And high carb foods can make a huge difference in bg levels.

Our theory is to start low and go slow. We start with one unit, test at home and then slowly raise the numbers as needed. It is easier to raise a low dose than deal with a high overdose. You can't get the insulin out once it is shot! It's a process but we have lots of people here using your insulin who can give you advice. You can also make a spreadsheet of your numbers (available here via Google docs) and send the numbers to your vet for advice.

I would wait to see if the sore resolves itself - it's not something usually connected with diabetes.

I would just start working on the testing preparation, stay with the food and dose until you can test. Changing food now could send him too low. Changing the dose with the high carb food could send him too high.
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

I would strongly recommend starting at .5 units.
3 units is ALOT. My kitty gets .2 units.
Very high blood sugar, over time, usually a long time, causes damage to organs and starvation.
Very low blood sugar can cause immediate organ damage and death.
Its much better to give to little, than too much.
I would suggest that you switch the food first, and learn to test, and then add in insulin as needed.
For like 1/3 of cats diet change is enough.
I use a few flavors of 9-lives and some Special Kitty from Walmart. $.70 for a 13 ounce can. I have 4 kitties and they tend to eat 3-4 cans a day (total, not each).
As the other posters said, the prescription diet is not better than and in many cases is WORSE than several regular ol grocery store foods.
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

Welcome Jenny & Chester!

Sue asked that I stop by to give you some tips on feeding diabetics with non-diabetics in the household. I have 13...yep that's right Thirteen cats :o And two of those are diabetics, one in remission and off insulin and one that is still insulin dependent.

Everybody here eats exactly what my two diabetics eats, just good old fashioned Friskies Pate Style canned cat food. The way meal-time goes around here, is that at 7am when its time for Musette's (my insulin dependent) shot I feed everyone 1/4 of their daily intake of food which here works out to 4 cans (5.5oz) Duvessa my skinny mini and shy girl eats on the kitchen counter, Musette eats on the night stand in the bedroom along with Lady Jane Grey and Maxwell, who share a dish on the floor, as they are the slowest eaters, everyone else except Patches (Mr Piglet) share 5 dishes on the kitchen floor in various places. Patches will eat everyone else's food so he has to eat in his "magic food box" also known as a flight carrier. He is so use to this now that he just walks in and sits down while I'm getting everyone's food ready. Then I just close him in the carrier feed everyone, when they have all eaten what they want, I let him out of the carrier to go see if he can sneak a nibble or two. The same thing happens again at 1pm when they get lunch. Now in the evening when its time for Musette's evening shot, I feed everyone again, but this time I give them a double portion from what they had at breakfast and lunch, and Patches doesn't have to go to the magic food box. This will normally carry everyone over until morning when it is rinse and repeat again.

I noticed that you mentioned Tractor Supply so I'm guessing small rural town...same here. I talked to the manager at our local Tractor Supply here, and worked out a deal with them to buy full cases of Friskies for a bulk discount. Now I go through 4 1/2 cases (24 cans/case) per week, so buying in bulk is very easy for me to do. Since I do buy so much canned food at a time they worked out a deal with me that if I buy 5 cases at one time, I only pay for 4 and the 5th one is free. It isn't a discount that they normally offer but it was one they were willing to work out with me because I asked. And it saves them from having me come in and clean off their shelves, so that their other customers still have canned Friskies to buy after I have been through.. :lol: It might be something to ask your local Tractor Supply about as well since you are feeding a multicat household as well.

Not only is it just easier to feed everyone the same thing here, so the two diabetics don't get into what they shouldn't have, the change in my civies (non-diabetics) since the diet change has been remarkable. I have one guy that had horrible food allergies and we could never figure out the cause, until I put him on an all canned diet, over night his allergies went away. My fat cats got thin, my thin cats rounded out, and not only did the amount in the litter box go way down so did the smell...and trust me with 13 housecats the litter boxes use to smell to high heavens. And when I sat down and figured out the cost of feeding them all canned or feeding them a high quality dry like Taste of the Wild, which my dog eats) it is actually cheaper to feed the canned, in what I save in litter expense and meds for Onyx's allergies as well as not having to find cat vomit just about every morning where someone had scarfed and barfed on the dry food.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

Welcome! I'm also a relative newbie to this site. My vet put my big boy (about 15 pounds) on a dose of 2.5 units of Lantus twice a day. I was scared to give him that high of dose after reading everything on this board, so I gave him 1.5 units instead. A week later he hypoed (I just started blood testing and caught it). I dropped the dose to 1.0 unit and three days later he hypoed again, plus I had to keep skipping shots because his blood sugar was so low at shot time. I dropped the dose to 0.5 units and yes, he hypoed again two days later. Today I took him off insulin to see if he can be diet-regulated. If not, we'll start back with a dose of 0.25 -- ten times less than the vet prescribed!

I am so thankful I was home testing. I am so thankful I didn't listen to my vet! My vet is a wonderful man, but most vets do not know how to treat diabetes very well and changing to a low-carb diet is a HUGE change. I think switching your kitty to a canned, low carb diet and giving a very low dose of insulin to start with is great advise! All of these wonderful people told me the same thing and it probably saved my cats' life.

Heidi

ps. I have an extra bathroom that I keep dry kibble in for my kitty with IBS whose intestines were not happy with the food change in our house (he only eats the dry). The other three cats are allowed into the dry kibble room occasionally to nibble, but they mostly eat the canned diet now (which is helping one of my kitties who had bladder issues immensely!) My sugar kitty is not allowed anywhere near the kibble room!!! So, canned food in the kitchen and dry kibble in the dark little bathroom in the mudroom.
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

Welcome to the FDMB family, Jenny, Chester and other fur babies! cat_pet_icon You have found the best place for feline diabetes with all the super friendly and knowledgeable folks here! :-D

Yeah, switching from the relatively cheap dry food to all wet can seem outlandish...until you discover canned food doesn't have to be that expensive and is so much better for all our kitties. :-D I'm on a very lean budget, so when Poopy was diagnosed I was very worried about food costs, not to mention insulin, testing and all that. I switched both cats to the cheaper canned (Special Kitty from Walmart and Sophisticats from Petsmart) low carb food and have noticed quite a few differences. Not only are they healthier looking (soft and fluffy, lean and active), their leavings in the cat box are smaller and a bit less smelly (and that is a GOOD thing! LOL). I had to rearrange my budget a bit but my babies are worth it! :-D

Welcome again and don't hesitate to ask questions. We're all here to help our sugar kitties! :-D
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

Wow, people, THANK YOU!

Reading these posts is making me feel SO much better. Like, maybe I can do this. Thank you to Mel for the suggestion about TSC. I know someone who talked the manager at ours down on a live trap, so I think I could maybe make a deal with the manager if I need to. Though I do have quite a few less cats then you. ;-)

I was feeding "indoor" cat food (big mistake, I know now) and just keeping the bowl filled but I am going to make the change after Chester gets his blood test at the vet tomorrow. I was working in the Taste of the Wild for a change over and limiting access, but I am going to do the wet food, especially for Chester. I was doing the math in my head for the cost and was feeling a bit anxious (seriously, I've been thinking I need Valium. Wonder what my doc would say if I told him why?), but if I can get Chester OTJ it will be worth it.

I'm not sure how to deal with the vet about home testing. I don't think he will say too much about it because I've been going to him for 20+ years and always have taken good care of my animals, but he told my friend she didn't need to do it with her cat. She didn't already have a meter, though. Anyway, going to tell him about the switch in food and ask about what he think the dosing should be, but I am thinking I will start over with the low and slow method. My next big worry is what am I going to do if I have to go away? My friend who I trust and is capable often goes on vacation with us, and my mother in law who lives next door does our feeding. I don't know if she could handle injections. I guess I will just worry about that when it happens.
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

One thing to remember when talking to your vet is that they work for you not the other way around. You don't need their permission to test your cat at home, and as far as dosage goes, if they want to start higher than .5u-1u b.i.d. just tell them that you are uncomforable starting at that dose and would like to start lower and work your way up from there.

As far as wht to do when you need to be away, hopefully you will never have to figure that out because hopefully Chester will be one of the lucky ones and go OTJ before it ever comes up. But if it does, you have lots of options, some folks here just travel with their diabetic cat, others teach a friend or family member to test and shoot and still others have cat sitters that come in to do those chores. Especially with the long history you have with your vet, I would ask if any of the vet techs there would be willing to swing by to test and shoot for you, to pick up a little extra cash on the side. And lastly, just like some folks do with non-special needs animals...board him at the Vet's.

As far as TSC goes, what I learned when working out a deal with them on canned food, is that since they mainly cater to farmers and ranchers who are 9 times out of 10 feeding barn cats, they don't have much of a call for the canned food, so they just about jumped out of their skin with joy when I asked about ordering and purchasing full cases of Friskies. I have probably made their sales figures for the month when I started buying all my cats needs through them. :lol: Since they also carry wonderful 40lb boxes of Tidy Cat which is what my cats use. So between the cat food, litter and dog food they make a real nice profit off me, and thus to keep me as a customer they were more than willing to undercut the local grocery stores. :-D

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

Just wanted to stop in and say, "Hey!" and "Welcome!" You have come to the right place to ask questions and learn LOTS!

We are still pretty new, Hershey was diagnosed in Nov, 2011 and started ProZinc on Jan 13th. We have two cats: Hershey (almost 10) and Oreo (almost 5-1/2). Both were on dry "indoor" food (free fed) with a little wet as a bedtime snack. When weight started to be an issue, we started measuring out their food and putting it down when we ate, plus bedtime.

When Hershey was diagnosed with something I didn't even know cats could get! we started doing research and put him on all canned (since he hadn't started insulin) and fed Oreo dry for two meals (to finish it up) and wet for two. Now, they're both on all canned. They eat 4 times a day and I stand guard until Oreo is finished, so I can pick his up before Hershey pounces on it.

Hershey's dander is all but gone and his coat is super soft; I had forgotten how soft he used to be! And, Oreo is softer than ever.

I can't advise about dosing questions as I'm having to ask almost daily. But, I can tell you that we have met some very knowledgeable, caring and patient people here.

Take care,

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

So glad to meet everyone! My husband and I are child-free in the human category, but we have 5 dogs and 5 cats. All the cats are indoors, and 4 of the dogs are outdoor with one indoor. We already have a dog with inoperable bladder cancer, who we give an anti-inflammatory every day, and another quite elderly dog turning 15 this year. So this diabetic baby is just adding to the worry, but this site has been so helpful. I've printed out the wet-food nutritional info list and will be armed and ready to go cat food shopping soon. Tomorrow, Chester goes for his one-week checkup at 8 am so I will post back how it all goes. Thanks everyone for your support. I hope someday I will be experienced enough to support others!
 
Re: New to feline diabetes, with 4 non-diabetics in the hous

One more thing...can someone direct me towards a tutorial about filling out the spreadsheet? I think I have a basic understanding, but wouldn't mind an overview. I've been looking around but can't seem to spot it tho I know there must be "directions" somewhere!
 
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