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Susan and Tiberious

Susan and Tiberious

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Hello, my name is Susan & my cat is Tiberious. He is about 15 yo and abt 13.5lbs. Recently, he has been having a hard time getting up & walking. His appetite changed and his urination increased. After taking him to the vet, he was diagnosed as a diabetic on 08/06 of this year. I started insulin injections ASAP, as well as BG home testing.


I have been checking his BG level regularly and giving him Lantus insulin shots once a day (morning @ the same time), per vet recommendation. His BG levels have been fluctuating up and down each time. After researching online and FDMB, I noticed even with long lasting insulin, most people/vets have recommended injections every 12 hours. I have asked my vet & he still advises once every 24 hours. Should I still continue per the vet, or get a 2nd opinion? Thanks for any help you can give us! confused_cat
 
Welcome Susan and Tiberious to the FDMB Family.

First off cudos for home testing!!! But yes, Lantus needs to be given every 12 hours as cat metabolize insulin twice as fast as humans. Also diet plays a huge role in managing diabetes, so I know everyone will ask what Tiberious is eating, we recommend a low carb/ high protein canned or raw diet. Many cats will have their BGs drop as much as 100 pts by simple removing the high carb dry food.

We are also going to want to know what dosage Tiberious is on, so we can better help you help him.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
tough nut to crack - i give twice a day and so is the standard for every diabetic at my animal hospital

If you want a second opinion, you would need a better vet to turn to and ask, and that is the hard part. Do have anyone in mind?
 
Hi Susan! Welcome!

You're home testing, and on a wonderful insulin, so you're well on your way. Those are two of the three steps to getting your cat into remission. The third step is diet--what are you feeding Tiberious? 80+% of cats go into remission with the combination of a low carb canned or raw diet, Lantus, and tight regulation via home testing.

Your vet is mistaken about the once a day dosing, but this is very common even for good vets. Human and dogs metabolize insulin at the same rate, but cats metabolize insulin twice as fast. This is why we shoot twice a day instead of once. A dose that will last 24 hours in a human or dog will only last 12 hours in a cat. Many vets experienced in treating diabetic dogs commonly make this mistake. My old vet did this--but once I found the feline dosing protocol I learned to adjust doses on my own, like you would as a parent taking care of a diabetic child. It sounds to me like you have a good vet--they have you on a good insulin and home testing, but are off on their dosing and possibly diet recommendations. If you like your vet and they've been good in the past, I think maybe you should try educating them rather than ditching them. Of course, if your vet refuses to work with you, then you should look for someone else who will.

Here is a link to the Lantus forum, where you'll find a ton of information about the insulin you're using in the stickies: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9.

Here's a link to the dosing protocol for Lantus that we use here: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581. Hundreds of cats here have gone off insulin using this protocol, including my own.

As for your vet, I would bring their attention to this article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19592286 (I have the full text if you want to read it, but the vet should be able to get a copy), and the Queensland dosing protocol (this is pretty much the same as the one I posted above, but with more information for your vet): http://felinediabetes.com/Roomp_Rand_2008 dosing_testing protocol.pdf
 
Thanks so much for such fast responses!!! You guys rock!! I had switched to Fancy feast wet cat food about 1-2 weeks prior to Tiberious's diagnoses. The vet prescribed 1unit every 24hrs. I updated my signature too with this info!!
 
Fancy Feast is a great food to feed--Bandit currently is eating low-carb fancy feast. Here's a list of the low-carb grain free flavors that are diabetic safe, in case you haven't seen it: http://felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm

So it sounds to me like you actually have a great vet, who just isn't familiar with the feline dosing protocol for Lantus yet. I would defintiely print off the article and Queensland protocol for him/her, but I would also familiarize yourself with it in case you need to make dosing adjustments (which unless your vet is on call for you 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, you'll eventually end up doing). :smile:
 
Julia,
Thanks again!! We are soo grateful we found this MB!! Priceless information that is making this DX much less intimidating!!


Well Wishes- Susan and Tiberious
 
You are ahead of the game! Kudos to you! I am not liking the once per day dosing tho. I am in Orlando, and no longer have family in the Tampa area, although my aunt's sister lives in St Pete and thye have a dog...

My vet had some experience with diabetic cat & dog (at home, I think they belong to his vet GF), and diagnosed Lantus for Cedric on 4/22. He was getting first 1 unit 2x per day, then 2 then 2.5. I had switched from all flavors of FF to grain free, low carb, high protien canned (Wellness, Evo & Blue Buffalo Wilderness) plus BB wilderness dry (down from 1/2 to 1/4 cup per day). I work 7 days a week and Cedric is alone for about 8-10 hours a day. The gang here finally convinced me to switch off the dry on 5/19. See Cedric's spreadsheet below and you will see how the BGs dropped. Two days later they were normal. he has been diet controlled since 5/22. He also eats BFF, Earthbourne, wervua, and a couple of other brands I have found on occasion. I have bought some cans of classic fancy feast, but he mostly eats the brands I named, since they are 5.5oz. I do feed the stray that hangs around my new house with Friskies pate varities, although he is probably not FD. Tried to catch him to resuce, but only got a bloody hand for my trouble!

I'd talk to your vet about the protocol. Lantus should be given twice a day. Each vet is different, i know. My vet pushed me to give Cedric canned food, but he did not force me to drop the dry. He is very happy that Cedric went in to remission as he had planned/hoped, they are a bit surprised that he did it so quickly. He was firm in the fact that the insulin needed to be given 2wice daily. My co-worker goes to a different vet (she now has 2 FD cats) but still gives her older FD WD dry as he won't eat canned. The vet sells her this. I have been trying to get her to come here. She gives her cts Lantus (she now has my old vial for her newly diagnosed cat) and she used to buy her syringes from Hocks.

If it will help and your vet wants to talk to my vet about Cedric, please PM me and we can exchange vet names etc.

Jesse
 
Susan,
Welcome to the FDMB. If you click on the link in my sig, you'll be taken to a page with lots of nutritional info, including links to the new and old "canned food" charts and one for dry food as well. All charts show the carbs values for each style, brand and flavor. Most of the Fancy Feast Classics are on the "old" canned list. That is what I switched Bob to, and he is now diet controlled after only about 10 weeks of insulin. If your vet suggested that you home test, then you are one of the lucky ones. He also prescribed a great insulin and a nice low dose. He just didn't get the "x per day" right. Probably has seen a lot more diabetic droolers than sugarcats.

When you look at the charts, compare just about any commercial brand with the "prescription" brands most vets send diabetic patients home with, and you'll notice dozens of cheaper choices that are drastically better than prescription diets for sugarcats. That's another common "error" made by even good vets. Great that you had already switched to FF before diagnosis, because you won that battle before you had to fight it. And you had already managed to drop Tiberious's BG down before you even knew he was diabetic.

First day here, and you're already well on your way,

Carl and Bob in SC
 
Carl and Bob,

Thank you for all the nutritional information! I still am in kind of a haze of awe and appreciation with so many helpful people on FDMB! It has made all the difference in the world understanding and dealing with FD. Thanks again to you and EVERYONE who has responded to my posts. I feel Tiberious and I are well on our way!! :-D
 
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