New to FDMB but diagnosed 2 yrs ago

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rvontrapp

Member Since 2013
Hello Eveyone!

I'm new to FDMB, and this community is slightly overwhelming. Just slightly! I'm very glad to know a community like this exists, and with so many people and resources!

Our story:
My cat, Munchkin, was diagnosed diabetic 2 years ago, maybe. I can't remember the exact timing. We had a few bumps along the road but I think he is doing okay now. We switched foods (to wet/canned) and started insulin treatment, and though we kept increasing his insulin dosage, his diabetes was not well controlled. So, we focused more on getting his weight into a healthier range (he is named "Munchkin", but he was not a small cat by anyone's definition!) He lost a few pounds and his blood sugar test results looked better, so we lowered his insulin dose. We were only testing at the vet's office (we tried home testing, but didn't get very far) and the poor guy started having hypoglycemic episodes and seizures. We hadn't lowered the insulin dose enough. So, we tested a lot and lowered his dose a lot over several months; now he only takes 2u of insulin twice a day and seems to be doing well.

My questions:
*We switched to Sophisticat at least a year-and-a-half ago and a few months later they changed the label to Grreat Choice. Both foods have worked well for us and I have no complaints. I contacted the manufacturer for nutritional info and they sent me everything I asked for, but that was March of 2012. Is there a central location, a webpage that includes all of the nutritional information gathered by members? I'm curious to know if anyone has more recent info on the Grreat Choice foods, or if I can and should add the information I have.

*Several times that I've been to my PetSmart, the employees have commented about how they receive questions from other customers with diabetic cats. Is there a way to find other FDMB members that live close to me?

*Is there an informational flier advertising the FDMB website that I could print out somewhere on this site? My vet (is awesome) and sometimes allows customers to post on his corkboard in the office, and this resource seems worthy of sharing.

*I can't figure out what "(GA)" means after some members' names. To me, GA means Georgia, but none of these members are from Georgia. Can anyone fill me in on what "(GA)" means?

Sorry this post is rather lengthy, but thank you for your understanding and help.
 
GA stands for Guardian Angel or Gone Ahead it is used to refer to a cat that has passed away and gone on ahead to the Rainbow Bridge.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
There is page on the main site called Spead the Word About Feline Diabetes with various printable items. It's at: http://www.felinediabetes.com/word.htm

Here is a page with all the FDMB slang: http://felinediabetes.com/dictionary/ca ... ionary.htm

Here is a page listing people who have offered to help by location: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... tcUE#gid=0. This doesn't include everyone who posts. We often suggest that newbies title help posts with their general location so we can figure out if someone is nearby.

You really should give hometesting another chance. It's so important in safely managing this disease. If you or your child was diabetic you would never give insulin without checking blood glucose (BG) levels first!
 
Home Testing? and generally overwhelmed (in South Georgia)

Thanks guys!

I knew "GA" couldn't mean Georgia; "Gone Ahead" makes more sense. I'll definitely post one of those posters in my vet's office and I'm sure the FDMB dictionary will be very handy. I'd found the spreadsheet of members willing to help by locality, but was really hoping there were more people. The closest member is two hours away. :YMSIGH:

Munchkin is our sweetie, but to everyone else he's mostly a grumpy, mean cat. When the techs at the vet office say, "he wasn't in the best mood today," it means, "he tried to claw all my skin off and/or eat my arm." We've seen him behave that way with others (NO reason, just out of grumpiness), but not with me or my husband - until we tried to home test. I feel like we gave home testing a good try before, but I'm open to the prospect of trying home testing again, just not too enthusiastic about it. I don't know if our vet doesn't do glucose curves on any cat, or just not on our Munchkin. When we go to the vet, we end up with three glucose test values per day, max. I know home testing could give us more values, and more test values could be very helpful.

I never thought there could be pet parents with spreadsheets of test results. And, I never thought pet parents would try several different types of insulin, or that they would prefer one over another, or that you could even give 0.25 of a unit. I don't even know what kind of insulin we use. MommaOfMuse, is there a article somewhere that explains how to track blood sugar test results, like the results you have tracked on your kitties' spreadsheets? Maggies Mom Debby, how did you know/decide to try different insulin types?

Thank you!
 
One idea for testing: We used the kitty burrito with Oliver for a few weeks until he got used to the whole idea and knew a treat was coming right after. We wrapped him in a towel with only his head showing. He couldn't get away until we were done. If he ever starts to leave, you can get the blood droplet on your fingernail and test from there.

This site is over 15 years old and has seen a lot of kitties come and go. It is just general experience that shows the three insulins (Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc) tend to be the mildest and produce the best results. People who start with the harsher insulins (Canninsulin which is also called Vetsulin and Humulin) have a harder time regulating and get poorer results.
 
Hello!
I'm sure people will be along soon with the links you asked for. I'm still finding my way around so I'm not sure where to find it all, and even if I find it, I don't remember where it was.
Tracking blood sugar is pretty easy when you get the spreadsheet set up. There's the row across the top that shows columns for AMPS +1 +2 and so on to PMPS +1 +2 and so on. That is how we record tests and shot times. "AMPS" stands for A.M. Pre-Shot - the test before the first shot of the day. "PMPS" stands for P.M. Pre-Shot - the test before the second shot of the day. The +1, +2 and such stand for 1 hour after shot, 2 hours after shot. We don't record specific times as much as we record time intervals. With each shot test, there is a column to record the dose given.

I think home testing is the best thing I could be doing for Chester's diabetes. For one thing, it tells me whether or not it's safe for me to give him his insulin. We're still trying to get him regulated, and his numbers sometimes bounce around. Every now and again, we'll test him before his shot, and he'll give us a number that's below our safety threshold. If we gave him the shot then, he might have gone dangerously hypo. In that case, we usually skip the shot. But if we weren't testing, we would have no idea if he was safe to shoot or not. We also can run the blood curves at home, which saves us money on vet bills and gets us better numbers. Vet offices can stress cats out and add more than 100 points onto their "regular" BG (Blood Glucose) numbers. Better to get the tests at home with lots of treats on a comfy couch.I can also test any time I want more information, even if the vet doesn't think it's important.

My Chester is very comfortable with testing, but I use a lot of treats for positive reinforcement. I'm not sure how my grumpy cats would like the idea...
 
Here is the link to how to set up the spreadsheet that we all use to track our kitties blood sugar readings Spreadsheets

I adopted both Maxwell and Autumn as diabetics so neither of them knew me from Eve when I started testing them at home. Maxwell as a breeze to test as he had been fostered with an experienced diabetic cat care giver while waiting for transport from MA to me here in NE, but Autumn on the other hand was picked up from her original owner and transported immediately overland from MN to NE thanks to many wonderful folks here that each drove a leg of the transport to get her to me. Since Maxwell had been so easy to test I was fairly confident that Autumn would be too...Oh how wrong I was, even as sick as she was when we first met, she quickly gave me a lesson in the famous Tortietude. :lol: I remember many times thanking my lucky stars that she had been front declawed before my meeting her for I was sure if she hadn't been I would have needed a transfusion, or at the very least stitches, and even without front claws she still managed to bite through my hand a couple of times.

But I would just wrap her in a towel, tuck her all wrapped up under my arm like a football, grab a ear and hang on for an 8 second ride those first few days. But every quickly she learned that I was going to give her a yummy treat just for coming to her testing spot, then another one for sitting still while I poked her ear and then yet another one the minute her meter would beep. Now she comes running from wherever she is the minute she hears me unzip her meter pouch, and jumps up on her spot and assumes the position waiting for her treat. Or if I'm running late on a test she will come looking for me. Testing takes 3 things...Confidence, persistance, and yummy treats for kitty. You may not be able to train a cat, but you can certainly trick them into believing it was their idea in the first place.. ;-)

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Some good testing tips:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

The treat is the key - once I found the magic one for Honey, the rest became easy.
I would give her it at the start of testing to get her onto the chair/bed, then a little more during testing while I fumbled with vaseline, tissue, lancet device etc.. and then a little after.
She didn't notice anything except the treat :-D
(I used freeze-dried chicken crumbs)
 
Re: Home Testing? and generally overwhelmed (in South Georgi

rvontrapp said:
I'd found the spreadsheet of members willing to help by locality, but was really hoping there were more people. The closest member is two hours away. :YMSIGH:
Click to expand...
Try starting a new topic with "Testing help needed in Southern Georgia". That may get the attention of someone closer to you.
 
Did I mention ya'll are awesome?! Thanks so much for the testing tips everyone, and thanks Denise & Honey for the link to the testing tip page! (I printed it out to reference/study.) I never knew ANY of those tips. I haven`t tried the kitty burrito while we were trying to test, although Munchkin is not a fan of the kitty burrito, even on a good day when we aren't trying to test. Still, I bet it would help me avoid being shredded to pieces. I tried a couple "test burritos" last weekend; they were a flop - both in popularity with Munchkin & in effectiveness. Maybe this is silly to ask and there really isn't a technique, but is there a page someone could recommend on the best way to do a kitty burrito? I also tried touching and messing with Munchkin's ears last weekend, just in an attempt to get him used to me messing with his ears. That went over marginally well.

When we tried testing before, I felt like it couldn't be that hard. But, then it was! MommaOfMuse, I laughed when I read your description of Autumn's response when ya'll first started testing! That is so accurate to how it goes when we want to do anything with Munchkin that he doesn't agree with. Munchkin was exactly like Autumn was with her testing, plus he cried! My husband and I ended up so upset and shaken after many tries over many days that we just couldn't try any more. But, we're going to try again! After I study-up for a bit.

The good news is Munchkin is HIGHLY motivated by treats and food. He has always know when it was time to eat and will come get us if we are "late" getting his dinner set out. I have to order some supplies from Doctors Foster & Smith and I'm planning on buying some special treats at the same time for our next try at at-home-testing. What treats do you recommend? I had picked out the Shrimp Snappies and Freeze-dried LiverSnax, both branded/made by Doctors Foster & Smith. Has anyone tried those? I think the LiverSnax are actually marketed for dogs, but it says they are 100% freeze-dried liver with no added salt or sugar and they don't look processed. Is there a reason why freeze-dried liver wouldn't be okay for a cat?

What do ya'll do when you leave home and your sugar kitty can't go with you? There are several times when we just can't take Munchkin with us. Either we are staying with family and he isn't welcome or we're in FL where no pets are allowed, by law, at the "resort" hotels. Only once has a friend agreed to take care of him while we were gone; all the other times we couldn't find anyone willing to give the insulin shots. So, he boards at the vet now, and it works okay. But we haven't been asking him to test before every shot. It would be almost four times as expensive to ask the vet to test before every insulin shot, compared to the regular boarding fee. What do you do? Do you ask the vet to test that often, or do you just pick a "safe" dose to give every time even if sometimes it might not be enough insulin?

Mary B & Chester, thank you for the excellent explaination on how to read the spreadsheets. You also mentioned a "sefety threshold". What is the safety threshold blood sugar value for a cat? And is it the same for every cat? Is there a sliding scale for insulin dosing? And ditto, is it the same for every cat? Of course, I will talk with my vet about all of this too, but I'd appreciate as much input as ya'll are willing to give. Our vet is the one who first introduced us to the concept of at-home-testing, and I'm sure he'll support us giving it another try. But, he is open to us researching on our own and will talk with us about different treatment possibilities, even if they weren't his idea. That is actually how we ended up trying some other foods with less carbs than what he had initially recommended. We haven't talked about dosing like this before, but we will talk about it before I try anything.

Wendy & Tiggy, thanks for the link to the spreadsheet of cat food nutritional content. Munchkin eats from a selection of flavors of Grreat Choice (not listed on the spreadsheet) and they are all less than or equal to 6% cal from carbs. I think it is working pretty okay for us; I don't have any complaints. But, what protein to fat ratio or percentages does everyone try to go by? Munchkin doesn't have kidney disease so we have just tried to keep his diet similar to the ratio of protein to fat that was in the diets our vet initally recommended. And, why is the phosphorus content important; is it important for anything?

Sorry everyone for taking so long to respond to these posts. Sometimes I don't have the opportunity to get online and take a few minutes to do anything. But, I have been thinking about what everyone has posted, and as you can tell - I thought of plenty of questions! Thank you again for all your help!
 
he cried! My husband and I ended up so upset and shaken after many tries over many days that we just couldn't try any more
Click to expand...
He's got you faked out good. It doesn't hurt them but so many times if a cat doesn't want ears messed with, the minute you stick and they cry, they've got you :lol: You think "pain" and they are only mad at you for messing with their ear. I have gone an stuck totally strange cats for owners and not once did a cat cry or even know I did anything. When I got Hope from the airport and brought her home I just put her on the sofa, said this is what we are going to do, stuck her and she didn't even know it. Cats are good at pretending ;-) Mishka even comes and sits and waits for me to get the meter ready. MC I put on my lap and the only reason she may be fussy is she knows her food is ready and I've only had her for not quite 6 months. Mishka was also a rescue and just plain hated me but I could test her. It was giving the shots she hated so I used an E collar on her to shoot so she couldn't get me.

They are smart creatures. I remember one morning I sat on the sofa and Mishka was waiting for her food. I sat there and told her "no test, no food". She actually came over, jumped on the sofa and let me test her and then went flying to get her food.
 
Re: Home Testing? and generally overwhelmed (in South Georgi

Hi and welcome!

rvontrapp said:
Thanks guys!

I knew "GA" couldn't mean Georgia; "Gone Ahead" makes more sense.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to interject really quick and say that because of this comment, I will now prefer to think that my previous kitties have simply relocated to Georgia. :-D
 
Freeze dried treats are fine ( liver is fine) as long as its 100% freeze dried .. and not those crunchy snacks that have other carbs in it. I use liver and chicken flavours of Pure bites freeze dried Here is some other low carb treats http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172

When I leave home I get a pet sitting service in. First time I used them I was nervous but I left detailed instructions and got a service that was comfortable testing and giving shots and they were fine. It wasnt cheap at $40 a day but they sent me emails after every visit to let me know how it went and they actually kept the animals cleaner than we do!! They also changed litter trays, fed all cats, fed and cleaned our rabbits, closed and opened blinds, watered the plants, collected the mail etc.

What insulin are you using? That will help us respond on how to dose. We dont advise newbies shoot under 200 until they have taken measurements over a period of time and understand how the BG varies. Even experienced members wont dose under certain levels.

Food - I personally only look at % calories from carbs. The great choice sounds like a great choice (Sorry for the pun). I dont watch protein to fat ratio at all. Phosphorous is more important to cats with kidney issues.

Wendy
 
Yes, Hope&Baby, he definitely has us faked out! He is a good little actor.

KPassa, the kitties would love Georgia. Its warm already and we have plenty of birds and bugs to watch and chase. Well, warm is relative. Its still cold for us Southerners but the garden has been planted for a few weeks. The corn is up and we had our first lettuce salad last night out of garden.

We use ProZinc insulin and right now he gets 2u twice a day. If we were testing before dosing, I`m not sure how much we would be giving. Like I said, we don`t have a sliding scale or protocol. We`ve never tried another type, other than ProZinc. Not sure if that's a good or bad or inconsequential thing. Wendy&Tiggy, thanks for the link to the post about low carb treats. The pet sitting you have sounds great. Any idea how I could find such a capable service here? Did you find them on this website? $40 is a great price too; I doubt I can find such a great deal here but I`d be happy just to find someone willing to give shots.
 
I asked my vet and he gave me the pet sitting service card. I would do another post on here and ask specifically if anyone knows of a service near you.

For PZI - I would go over to the PZI forum and ask there about dosing. They should be able to advise.

Wendy
 
I'd start working with his ears, warming them with the rice sack or a prescription bottle filled with very warm water. Mess with his ears, warm them, then let him go and give him lots of praise and a treat. Do that several times before poking. If you get blood and he is leaving, you can get a drop on your fingernail and test from there.

Our Kitty burrito was to wrap Oliver in a towel until just his head was showing. We put him on the couch so we could lightly press him into the arm and keep him there, but you can have him between your legs also.

It is hard at first - we poked a whole weekend without a drop. For us, heating the ear enough and using a larger lancet was key (25-27 gauge is better than the 30-31 gauge humans use). But the treats are the most important part. Once they understand that they only get that special treat is when they get poked, they give up and give in. :-D
 
Does anyone have a link to their favorite instructions on how to do a kitty burrito? I've looked at a couple videos on Youtube and they weren't very helpful. I'm sure there are good Youtube videos and good sets of instructions out there, I'm just not finding them. Kitty burritos seem to be not unlike swaddling a baby: it looks really simple, until you try to do it without some good instruction. :lol:

I tried home testing again last night and did get one good reading. It went ok but had some difficulties. I have a human meter and the human lancets to go with it, so I'm pretty sure mine are the smaller gauge lancets, i.e. the harder to use lancets. (I checked the box and I can't find the gauge listed anywhere.) Can I get the larger gauge lancets anywhere or do I have to get them from my vet?
 
For the larger gauge lancets look for the ones that say for alternative test sites, those are normally the bigger ones even if they don't list the actual gauge, the finer ones are for fingers normally.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang.
 
Good Morning! I still need some instructions/tips on doing a kitty burrito. I think Munchkin is irritated, and slightly amused, by my futile attempts to keep him restrained when we try to test. He really likes his fleece throws so I tried using one of those, and they have too much stretch to them. Duh! But, I forgot that this morning while I was still half-asleep and trying to test. I got a blood drop on Munchkin's ear this morning (after poking a couple times) and then he wiggled free and by the time I scooped him up the blood was gone. I have also tried using the bath towel before (no stretch) like everyone here has recommended and it should work if I just had an effective wrapping technique.

Did ya'll have your sugar kitties lay on the towel and then roll them over to roll them up in the towel? That is what one of the videos showed - rolling the cat over. The cat in the video was complacant enough, but not Munchkin. Ideas? Tips?
 
We just sat Oliver down on a towel next to the arm of the couch. We wrapped him from both sides and tucked in the ends. I could lightly push him up against the couch arm so he wouldn't escape. BTW, if he is going away, you can get the drop on your fingernail and test from there.
 
Thanks ya'll! MommaOfMuse, I printed out the first set of instructions you posted and they look good. I'm armed for tonight! ;-) Sue, I remeber you mentioning using the arm of the couch, but I haven't tried it yet. I've been putting him on my lap but I think I want to try using the couch arm. Maybe that will give me more leverage. If anyone has any more tips/methods, please keep posting them. The more, the merrier.

I've been scared to try getting a blood drop on my fingernail. My nails are sharp and right about when I realize I need to scoop up the blood drop, I'm in the middle of my wrestling match and I worry I would cut him trying to do that. Maybe I need to suck it up and quit being a cream puff, and just give it a try.

Oh, I almost forgot to add, I couldn't get the "Kitty Mohawk" webpage to pull up. It is probably just my computer, its old. I'll try again tonight on a different computer. Thanks again!
 
Denise & Honey said:
Some good testing tips:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

The treat is the key - once I found the magic one for Honey, the rest became easy.
I would give her it at the start of testing to get her onto the chair/bed, then a little more during testing while I fumbled with vaseline, tissue, lancet device etc.. and then a little after.
She didn't notice anything except the treat :-D
(I used freeze-dried chicken crumbs)
Click to expand...

In case you missed it, the above is a great link for testing tips. A while back, I also wrote up a "cat-testing psychology" page that might help.
 
KPassa, girl, of course I printed out the testing tips! And I studied them to the point that I almost have them memorized. :smile: However, I hadn't seen your write-up, "cat-testing psychology", before yesterday so I gave it a good read. A lot of it makes sense and it was helpful for me to gain a different perspective.

We're going to try for a curve this weekend though that is probably an overly ambitious goal. How about, we're going to try to get more readings than just AMPS and PMPS?
 
rvontrapp said:
KPassa, girl, of course I printed out the testing tips! And I studied them to the point that I almost have them memorized. :smile: However, I hadn't seen your write-up, "cat-testing psychology", before yesterday so I gave it a good read. A lot of it makes sense and it was helpful for me to gain a different perspective.

We're going to try for a curve this weekend though that is probably an overly ambitious goal. How about, we're going to try to get more readings than just AMPS and PMPS?
Click to expand...

Michelangelo is my second feral kitten I've raised since a baby, so I've got a slight advantage when it comes to figuring out cat psychology. For example, Henry isn't the least bit feral, but I'm still able to see a lot of the subtle reactions he has to situations because those same reactions are so much more pronounced in the part-feral Michelangelo. :lol: On top of that, my previous part-feral, I had to feed through a tube for a few months when he had hepatic lipidosis at ~3 years of age and many years later, I had to give daily sub-q for the last few months of his life (before he moved to Georgia ;-) ) so I was already familiar with having to "restrain" cats even before I started testing Michelangelo.

And I've still never done a "proper" curve on Michelangelo, so don't stress if you're not as successful as you hope. You'll eventually accumulate enough data points that a curve isn't even necessary. You're doing great!
 
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