? New to FDMB and Can't get Sammy get regulated(from FB diabetes group)

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Tammy K and Kitties

Tammy K and Kitties

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Ok it's like this I LOVE my cat BUT I HAVE to love him on a reasonable budget....I can't go charging extreme amounts of money that I can't hope to pay off BUT I cannot figure out WHY I can't get him regulated...I have been giving him the Special Kitty and Friskies and FF Pates since his diagnosis at first he got into some food he shouldn't have had occasionally but not recently... I do feed him every time he wants food...I have tried giving him 2 u ProZinc then 2.5 units and so forth and STILL he is in the 300's doesn't seem to matter how much insulin I give him number is high,and I cannot get him down to the 100's anymore.... WHAT am I doing wrong or WHAT is going on???...I have sometimes checked him at different times throughout the day and he still remains that high most of the time... Is this going to require more vet vists and expense or should I try changing insulin (I will tell you now my vet will say NO he only sells the ProZinc and he thought he was fine in the 300's and when I told him he constantly cries for food he said be glad he is eating....and we have 2 vets and the other is EXPENSIVE)....
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...i8mnbYcTZbUYf-m03jx4iA5J68/edit#gid=361360320
 
He really isn't looking bad. Could he have any kind of infection? Teeth issues? Any chance he is sneaking high carb? It may also be that he has become insulin resistant - used to the higher ranges. I think I'd raise the doses by .25. I like the way you change the dose for yellows vs pinks. Maybe 3 for 250/300. And 3.25 for the pinks? It'd be best if you increase on a cycle you can get a nadir.

Then, you can slowly increase, on cycles you can monitor, 0.25 at a time until he starts to drop overall.
 
Hi Tammy!! Glad to see you're over here from the Facebook group!

China doesn't use ProZinc, but the people here will help you with getting Sammy under better control and if they think it's time to change insulins, they'll tell you. We usually give the insulin at least 6 months before changing...but that's also 6 months using the methods here

It's important for you to start getting mid-cycle tests during the AM cycle and a "before bed" test on the PM cycle....what we're looking for is how low Sammy is going on each dose

There's a protocol for ProZinc that's been developed by the people here....You might want to read through it and see if you have any questions

The ProZinc forum isn't as busy as some others, but the people here are a tight bunch and they'll help you all they can. If you have a problem or emergency and aren't getting a quick reply here, please feel free to post in the Health Forum too
 
Welcome, Tammy! He really doesn't look bad. We definitely understand needing to stick to a budget. Sue's given you some good advice, so I won't repeat it...just wanted to say welcome!
 
Hi members! Thank you for the encouragement... I don't know why my email account that I listed did not tell me I had these replies ? Anyway, I just worry that the consistently high numbers will cause his internal organs, especially his kidneys, damage and I love him so much and would love to see them down in the 100's and can't seem to achieve that.. I will try 3.25 units if he is over 300 now and see how that goes....But for a while I was doing small amounts and still getting almost the same results still in the high 300's ; I find that so weird!!! Btw that is OK that you didn't see the spread sheet Sharon :) I know I need to test him more again it just seem so consistently in the mid to high 300's seems like there isn't a point... and I am not going to say he has never gotten into some kibble or things he shouldn't have in the past. but lately I have been very strict with him and still these high numbers....
 
Tammy K and Kitties said:
I know I need to test him more again it just seem so consistently in the mid to high 300's seems like there isn't a point..
Click to expand...

But without mid-cycle testing, you don't know how low each dose is taking him...that's the most important number!

The Pre-shot tests just tell us if it's safe to shoot at all....it's the nadir that tells us how well each dose is working
 
Tammy K and Kitties said:
Hi members! Thank you for the encouragement... I don't know why my email account that I listed did not tell me I had these replies ? Anyway, I just worry that the consistently high numbers will cause his internal organs, especially his kidneys, damage and I love him so much and would love to see them down in the 100's and can't seem to achieve that.. I will try 3.25 units if he is over 300 now and see how that goes....But for a while I was doing small amounts and still getting almost the same results still in the high 300's ; I find that so weird!!! Btw that is OK that you didn't see the spread sheet Sharon :) I know I need to test him more again it just seem so consistently in the mid to high 300's seems like there isn't a point... and I am not going to say he has never gotten into some kibble or things he shouldn't have in the past. but lately I have been very strict with him and still these high numbers....
Click to expand...
Remember, the increases would be on cycles when you can monitor and get some numbers in the middle of the cycle. Chris is right; midcycle numbers let you know how low the dose takes him.
 
Yep, we like to know both what his preshots are AND how low a specific dose takes him. That way, we know if the dose is bringing him down far enough or if it needs to be increased.
 
Again my email did not notify me of replies :( Ok I got some cheap strips from ebay for a different meter of mine I will try to start doing more testing...I do feel bad for his ear...can't seem to get any blood with the 33's usually use the 30's and am running out of those...(hate to go higher because this one spot I hit with the 30's it gets a BIG drop and bleeds and bleeds...)
 
Tammy, do you sure have the permission marked for email replies? Click on your user name at the top and go to Alert Preferences.

You can use Neosporin with pain relief on his ear. Also, holding the ear for a few seconds after poking helps with bruising. 33 is a tinier lancet than 30s. Is the spot where you get a big drop the vein? It is best to avoid that and aim for the small capillaries that lead off the vein to the edge of the ear. I'd buy a few 25 -27 gauge lancets and see if they work better.
 
Thank you for your reply. Just checked and yes I do have the preferences set so it notify me of replies.? Yes I do think it is the vein and I try not to get it but he has black ears... I have some 26 gauge I just don't like to use them but I will try one and try not to get that vein. I have been using the Neosporin with pain relief on his ear and not so scabby...just greasy lol...but is ok
 
Hey Tammy!!

It just takes practice to learn where to poke...give yourself some more time...You'll get it!! In the meantime, if you hit the vein, you're house just may just look like a crime scene from NCIS.....LOL

You should really be aiming for the very edge of the ear....a flashlight can help you see where that vein is so you can avoid it better. Another thing that some people do with black kitties is shave the edge of the ear so there's not so much fur.

Have you tried poking the inside of the ear instead of the "furry" side? It doesn't matter which side you poke!

The bigger lancets really can be helpful...once his ears "learn to bleed" you can go back to the smaller ones. Make sure you're heating the ear before you poke too...warming brings more blood into the area so makes it easier to get blood

Hang in there!
 
Oh the blood thing is ok.. I may consider shaving a bit of his fur off his edge of his ear though...but I have neo on his ear now and I don't hit that vein too often...and it doesn't ever look like a crime scene so maybe not the vein...I get blood ok most of the time...I like the 30's and will probably just go by a box even though I have scads of others I was sent (and appreciate) but I just like the 30's the best... It is his numbers I am the VERY most concerned about. I do try to feed him what I should but sometimes we slip. This morning I think I did a fur shot which aggravated me, then this evening his bg number was over 400 and I was so afraid and guess I panicked a little and thought I better shoot 3 u instead of 2 because I was so afraid of it being so high... Probably really dumb, But it seemed like when I started out and I was shooting him according to the numbers on the chart a friend sent me (say he is 150-2something it is .5 and 300 - something is 3.5 units) it seemed like he had lower numbers and no hypo episodes or anything...Seems like now, no matter what, he is so high. I am so worried his internal organs are being ruined while I do this experimenting :'(
 
It is hard to tell exactly what is going on. He has had some nice yellow pre shots and then some Reds. Any time you can get a nadir (+5-7) will help, as will a curve on a day when you can. (Tests every 2/3 hours during a cycle). It will help to know if he drops low and bounces or if the cycle is generally flat.
 
You really NEED to start getting some tests in between shots...every day if you can (and if you can't do it during the day due to work, it's even more important that you get tests on the PM cycle)......We've seen cats go from 400 to 40 and back to 400 in the same cycle and without catching that 40, you'd think the cat needed more insulin, when they actually needed less
 
On days you can't get a nadir, try to get a test a few hours after the shot. If not in the AM, try grabbing one in the PM before bed. Then on the weekend, you can try to grab a nadir. A curve would be super helpful if you can get that soon. :)
 
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