New to FD and Comfused. Need Help!

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firefly

Member Since 2013
Hi. This is my first time posting, but I have been reading here since I found out my cat has FD. This is probably going to be long, and I have a lot of question, so I hope you will forgive me. My cat's name is Gracie, and she is 9 years old. Found out on Nov. 27th that she has FD, and took her into vet on Nov. 29th for her first BG Curve, and insulin shoot. The vet prescribed ProZinc 1unit twice a day. The lab work showed that her BG was 599. My guess for the very high number was due to stress. When the vet did her curve, she also had high numbers, and told me Gracie was extremely stressed out, and afraid. I switched both my cats (Ebony is my other cat) to all wet food (Friskie's pates) on 12/3. Here is all of Gracie's numbers.

Vet BG Curve 11/29
8:00- 535
10:00-513
12:00-513
2:00-459
4:00-441

12/2 I did my own BG Curve:
8:00-355
10:00-349
12:30-349
2:00-356
4:00-396

The vet did tell me to do the testing twice a day before insulin. Here are the results for the days...these are A.M. and P.M.

12/3
No BG this morning because I did not give her insulin the night before. She refused to eat after the 4:00 testing on 12/2, and was not eating by the time I went to bed at 9:00. She seemed exhausted from it all. On this morning I gave her the insulin without testing.
8:oop.m.-309

12/4
8:00-311
8:00-276

12/5
7:30-317
7:00-300

12/6 No BG. for the day. Gracie would not let me do the reading no matter what. No electricity that night.

12/7
9:00-234
9:00-312

12/8 Dr. wanted me to bring her in on Friday (12/6) to do another Curve since she had been on ProZinc for a week. I told her I wanted to do it at home, and I will call in Gracie's numbers on Monday. I didn't want Gracie to be stressed out, and not get the right readings. The vet was ok with this. Also, because her numbers were still high, I increased her insulin to 1.2 units. I was using a U40 syringe, so I eyeballed it by looking at the picture of the U100 syringe. Here is her curve.

8:00- 369
10:00-263
12:30-102
2:30-125
4:30-226
6:30-320

12/9 (overslept)
8:00-494
6:30-310

12/10
6:00-347

My vet was fine with the increase in dosage, but said Gracie's BG should be anywhere from 175-200s since she was diabetic. I explained to her what the AMA recommendations were with a reading under 150, but she insisted this wasn't true because she said Gracie was diabetic, and the range she gave me was acceptable for a diabetic cat, so I gave up trying to explain it. I am not comfortable with where she wants Gracie's BG to be.

Now the questions: I am still uncomfortable with using the U100 syringes until I understand the markings (I have looked at the pictures), but I hope to be using those syringes soon (slow learning curve for some things). Do I adjust the dosage based on the peak/nadir reading (12/8 example: 12:30-102. I understand, I think, no insulin with this low a number or the 125 reading either), or the high number after the peak (12/8 4:30-226)?

About the Sliding Scale: According to this, if Gracie's reading is, for example '251-290 BG, 3 units of Insulin to Inject," is this using the U40 syringe? I understand that with ProZinc the suggestion is to cut this 3 unit dose in half t0 1.5 units. Is this correct? If the SS is for the U40 syringes, do I next use the conversion chart to go from U40 to U100 syringes (example: 251-290 3 units...Prozinc user 1.5 units- U100 conversion-what is the conversion? I see 1/4 and 1.6?)?

Does anyone have any idea why the two-reading-per-day numbers are so high with Prozinc (except for the two reading that were in the 200s...don't understand that either)? I do not give Gracie any treats. All she gets is her wet cat food (Friskies pates).

Anyone have any suggestions on how I can test Gracie's BG by myself. I have tried before, by holding her, rubbing her ear, petting her, and also with her swaddling in a bath towel. Between holding everything, trying to prick her ear, and her flopping her ears, and squirming, it is impossible to do it myself. My husband had been helping me (he was on vacation last week), and at first I was pretty stressed out, but after a week and a half, I almost feel like a pro, plus Gracie is cooperating more, except when I try to do it myself.

Sorry this is so long, but I want to be sure I understand how to adjust her insulin, and use the U100 syringes properly so I do not harm my cat.

Thank you,
Linda
 
Hello Linda and Gracie and welcome! You are doing lots of things very well -- good for you to insist on home testing curves (you are right - they are much more accurate), Friskies pates are a good choice and ProZinc is a good mild, long lasting insulin.

I am wondering where you are getting the information on dosing for ProZinc. Here is our protocol for the insulin:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=109077

As you can see, we have no rules for this amount of insulin if you get this number. We want you to gather data and use those doses/numbers to make dosing decisions, as they relate to your particular cat.

If I were you, I would set up a spreadsheet so you have a way to communicate Gracie's numbers to the vet, to us and for you to analyze. l We have a wonderful color coded Google document. Here are the instructions:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

It's a little tricky; if you need help, just ask.

And it would be very helpful if you would get more midcycle numbers. It will help you figure out the best dose. For example, if the 1.2 dose is taking her down to 50 midcycle, then you might back off a bit. If that dose means flat higher numbers, maybe increase a little. If she has a nice smile curve from the 200s to 100s or below (but not below 50) then the dose looks good.

For reference, we consider a cat regulated if they are generally in the mid 200s at preshot and 100 or below at midcycle.

The U100s needles: Here is a conversion chart. If you have other questions, just ask.

Conversion chart
 
To the rest of your questions.

The two higher preshot numbers could be bounces from lower midcycle numbers overnight. This is a common occurrence. When her body senses a lower number that it has been used to, it releases extra glucose causing her next number to be higher than normal. Some people call the process liver training. The body has to get used to lower, normal numbers and then she will stop bouncing.

Here are some great hometesting tips:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

The most important part of the process for us was to use a large enough lancet (25-27 gauge work best at first) and to heat his ear long enough. He was also very motivated by treats and once he realized a treat was coming after each poke, he let us poke whenever we needed to. We did use a kitty burrito the first few weeks till we all were comfortable with the process. We wrapped him up in a towel with only his head showing so he couldn't leave before we got the sample. Another tip - if she is going away, get the blood on your fingernail and test from there.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Hello Linda and Gracie and welcome! You are doing lots of things very well -- good for you to insist on home testing curves (you are right - they are much more accurate), Friskies pates are a good choice and ProZinc is a good mild, long lasting insulin.

I am wondering where you are getting the information on dosing for ProZinc. Here is our protocol for the insulin:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=109077

As you can see, we have no rules for this amount of insulin if you get this number. We want you to gather data and use those doses/numbers to make dosing decisions, as they relate to your particular cat.

If I were you, I would set up a spreadsheet so you have a way to communicate Gracie's numbers to the vet, to us and for you to analyze. l We have a wonderful color coded Google document. Here are the instructions:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

It's a little tricky; if you need help, just ask.

And it would be very helpful if you would get more midcycle numbers. It will help you figure out the best dose. For example, if the 1.2 dose is taking her down to 50 midcycle, then you might back off a bit. If that dose means flat higher numbers, maybe increase a little. If she has a nice smile curve from the 200s to 100s or below (but not below 50) then the dose looks good.

For reference, we consider a cat regulated if they are generally in the mid 200s at preshot and 100 or below at midcycle.

The U100s needles: Here is a conversion chart. If you have other questions, just ask.

Conversion chart

Hi Sue, thank you for the help, and the links. Sorry about the information on dosing for ProZinc that I posted. Looking back, after you mentioned it, I got it from "YourDieabeticCat" website. I've read so much since discovering Gracie has FD, I guess I confused that website with this one.

Based on my understanding of what you posted for protocol for Prozinc, I should hold her at 1.2 for now (going by the BG curve that I did). Is this correct? And the higher number that I am getting for morning and night BG reading is probably due to bouncing? And, after her body gets use to the lower mid-term numbers, then I should get readings in the 200s preshot? I understand that everyday will be different for her BG, and I should adjust or not. I will try to get more midterm reading. Thank you for the tip about putting the blood on my finger. Excellent tip! I do feed her just a tad of her cat food after each shot. Maybe that is why she is cooperating more when my husband holds her and I prick her ear. Thank you again for the help. I appreciate it.

Linda
 
Yes, I think I would hold the dose until you get some more midcycle numbers. A number at night would be really helpful to see if she drops low then and that is what is causing the morning higher number. Some cats do because they aren't eating during that time. Some people set the alarm for around 5-7 hours the pm shot and get a test. (I know it sounds awful, but it is such good information)

We generally do not subscribe to the techniques on YDC. They tend to be a "one size fits all" approach. If you go over to the PZI forum on this site

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24

you can see there are cats who are in the mid 200s at preshot and are getting 2 units, and other cats that are in that same range and are getting .5 units. It depends on how the cats responds to the dose and we are big on ECID. Every Cat is Different.
 
Thank you Sue. I will try to get the midterm readings in middle of the night. My guess it's because of bouncing. I am curious about it. I do leave a little wet food out for both my cats after I go to bed. It is hard to tell who actually eats it all, but the way Gracie has been eating, I would say it is her. I will also try to post the BG readings at the link you provided in a day or two. I understand about the YDC. While there is some really good advice/information there, I was so confused by it, that I went looking for more information and found this site.

Linda
 
It'd be geat if you want to post on the PZI forum. Everyone there is familiar with your insulin. We would like you to have a spreadsheet up. It is difficult to give dose advice unless you can see how the kitty has done with previous doses. See how clear this makes the whole picture:

Gracie's SS

I have this one saved. If you want to take it over (I left off the units given because I didn't know when you changed from one to 1.2) just let me know.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
It'd be geat if you want to post on the PZI forum. Everyone there is familiar with your insulin. We would like you to have a spreadsheet up. It is difficult to give dose advice unless you can see how the kitty has done with previous doses. See how clear this makes the whole picture:

Gracie's SS

I have this one saved. If you want to take it over (I left off the units given because I didn't know when you changed from one to 1.2) just let me know.


Sue, I changed from 1 unit to 1.2 units on 12/8. I will try and have the SS in the next day or two, and let you know. I did create a Google acct. and took a look at the SS...running out of time right now. Does the +1, +2,etc. mean hours after giving insulin shoot?

Thanks
Linda
 
Yes, we use those designations as we are all in different time zones. So +3 is 3 hours after a shot.

If you want to use the the spreadsheet I saved instead of redoing one, just send me a pm and we can do that. (choose the PM button on the bottom of this post). That one is a read only document. I have to share the original with you so you can change and add data.
 
Hi Linda and sweet Gracie....Welcome To FDMB!

You received excellent info from Sue. :smile:

I am a ProZinc user and will look for your posts in the PZI forum. Although Sue usually gets info out quicker than me :lol: I try my best to cover for her if she isn't online when I see a post.

You are doing great so far. :-D
 
misty1477 said:
Hi Linda and sweet Gracie....Welcome To FDMB!

You received excellent info from Sue. :smile:

I am a ProZinc user and will look for your posts in the PZI forum. Although Sue usually gets info out quicker than me :lol: I try my best to cover for her if she isn't online when I see a post.

You are doing great so far. :-D


Hi Misty,

Thank you for the welcome. Sue has been a great help. I will look for you, too, in the PZI forum.

Linda
 
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