New to everything! Scared &confused! I have?'s

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Rune1

Member Since 2012
Hello, my cat Rune was diagnoised with diabetes just this last weekend. Of course being so new to this I have a million questions and I really feel that my vet is not as helpful as I'd like her to be. Plus I wish I could have a person at my house to help me with everything! So I hope you guys can help me out!im so glad I found a message board.
Ok first we are suppose to give her Lantus Glargine twice a day. Yesterday was her first day on it. She gets 3units now my first question is she weights 16 lbs. is 3units normal or kinda high? Because I gave her the insulin in the morning she threw up then she seemed fine then at night I checked her levels and her number was 3.8 (sorry don't know what that is in the other number I live in Canada sorry) which is really low so I didn't give her another shot. I left it I fed her like normal (yes I changed her food it's all good that way) anyways so this morning I checked her levels again and it was 13.2 so I gave her a shot then she threw up again. So is that normal? Or is 3 units to much do u think? I phoned my vet but she's to busy today and might not get to call me back I'm really worried! What do I do if she's low again tonight do I do the same thing all over again? Is it always gonna be one shot of insuline a day? Seems weird low at night high in morning.
Ok and another question my vet said to give her the shot while she's eating cause then she's distracted and the shot doesn't bug her. But a friend who has a diabetic cat said his vet told him to feed his cat then wait 45mins-60mins later then give her the insulin because it does make them puke usually and eating is very important. So when is the right time to do the insulin shot?
And last question if 6-10 is normal for numbers for her anything below 10 I shouldn't give her a shot right? Cause that would send her into a low right?and she might crash? Cause I work all day. I would not want her to go into a hypoglycemic shock when I'm not here. But higher then 10 then give her the shot?

Thank you so much to anyone out there that can help me out! I appreciate it so much! I feel completely overwhelmed I just wanna cry! Anyways thank u!
Shaunna and Rune
 
3 units twice a day is way too much insulin for a newly diagnoised kitty especially if you have just recently changed her diet to a low carb canned or raw diet.

We recommend that you start at no higher than .5u to 1u twice a day and hold that dose for 3-5 before making any changes while testing at home.

Insulin should not make them puke at all. Most of do give our shots while our cats are eating when working with any of the 3 long lasting insulin which are Prozinc, Lantus and Levemir. Now with the shorter acting older insulins like Humulin N it was test feed wait about 15mins to half an hour then shoot, but that was because those insulin are very harsh and there needed to be food on their stomachs before getting the insulin. This is not true with Lantus.

If Rune was my cat I would drop back to 1u twice a day, since it sounds like you are testing at home and can monitor her to see how well the insulin is working, hold that dose for about 5 day or whenever you have your next day off that you can run a curve (testing every 2 hours from one shot to the next shot).

There are 3 tests that are very important to get with Lantus, those test are before each shot and when just starting out you don't want to shoot at all if they are below 200 or 11.1 and right around the nadir which is normally right around +6 (6 hours after the shot) as well as many spot checks as you can get in.

Now for the questions from our side of things. What have you changed Rune's diet too? how much and how often are you feeding her?
Are you testing at home? It sounds like you are, What meter are you using Human or Pet Only (it does make a difference as far as when numbers become dangerously low).
As normal for a cat on a human meter are between 40-120 while on a pet only they are between 70-150.

That 38 in the evening is a good sign that her dose is too high, normally you want the lowest point to be in the middle part of the cycle so they are rising when the next shot is due.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Rune1 said:
Hello, my cat Rune was diagnoised with diabetes just this last weekend. Of course being so new to this I have a million questions and I really feel that my vet is not as helpful as I'd like her to be. Plus I wish I could have a person at my house to help me with everything! So I hope you guys can help me out!im so glad I found a message board.
Ok first we are suppose to give her Lantus Glargine twice a day. Yesterday was her first day on it. She gets 3units now my first question is she weights 16 lbs. is 3units normal or kinda high? Because I gave her the insulin in the morning she threw up then she seemed fine then at night I checked her levels and her number was 3.8 (sorry don't know what that is in the other number I live in Canada sorry) which is really low so I didn't give her another shot. I left it I fed her like normal (yes I changed her food it's all good that way) anyways so this morning I checked her levels again and it was 13.2 so I gave her a shot then she threw up again. So is that normal? Or is 3 units to much do u think? I phoned my vet but she's to busy today and might not get to call me back I'm really worried! What do I do if she's low again tonight do I do the same thing all over again? Is it always gonna be one shot of insuline a day? Seems weird low at night high in morning.
Ok and another question my vet said to give her the shot while she's eating cause then she's distracted and the shot doesn't bug her. But a friend who has a diabetic cat said his vet told him to feed his cat then wait 45mins-60mins later then give her the insulin because it does make them puke usually and eating is very important. So when is the right time to do the insulin shot?
And last question if 6-10 is normal for numbers for her anything below 10 I shouldn't give her a shot right? Cause that would send her into a low right?and she might crash? Cause I work all day. I would not want her to go into a hypoglycemic shock when I'm not here. But higher then 10 then give her the shot?

Thank you so much to anyone out there that can help me out! I appreciate it so much! I feel completely overwhelmed I just wanna cry! Anyways thank u!
Shaunna and Rune
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A starting dose of 3units twice a day is dangerous and wrong. Don't shoot that dose again. Thank goodness you are home testing! Don't shoot more than 1unit twice a day.
As for weight and dose, there is no relation between the two. Fat cats and skinny cats do fine on the same dose, so don't worry about Lantus being weight based.

Where are you in Canada; I am in Winnipeg, and there are many other Canadians.
I put together a sheet to convert the BG numbers so that the others on this site will know what you mean. your 3.8 is equal to 68 and that's a fine number but you would not give insulin to your cat if that's what the BG was at shot time!


As for your friend's diabetic, he's likely giving his cat an old school insulin like Humulin N or something where food is needed to be consumed before shot. Normally, you give no food for 2hrs before shots, then test at shot time and if it's safe to shoot, you can feed and shoot at the same time.... you don't need to wait to shoot until some food has been consumed.

There will be some people here who will say 'don't shoot any numbers under 200 ( our 11.1), but I think if you get a number around 10 (or 180) maybe post here and ask what if it's safe.

People will ask you to create a spreadsheet and have you put your BG test results in... that way, if you need help, people can look at the numbers you have been getting and the dose given, and be able to help you.
Create your Spreadsheet the sheet really does help.

The first thing to do is drop that dose down; stick to 1unit twice a day for about 5days... see below:

"General" Guidelines:
--- Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles).
--- Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
--- Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

Increasing the dose...
--- Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose.
--- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
--- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.

Reducing the dose...
--- If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.

--- If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose.
--- Try to go from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely.

Random Notes...
Because of the cumulative nature of Lantus and Levemir:
An early shot = a dose increase.
A late shot = a dose reduction.

A "cycle" refers to the period of time between shots. There are 2 cycles in one day when shooting twice a day.

Sometimes a dose will need to be "fine tuned" by adding some "fat" or "skinny-ing up" the dose.
 

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Hi Shaunna & Rune!

Just wanted to pop in and say hello and welcome! You've gotten some great advice so far and I agree that 3U is way to high. We've all felt scared and confused at the beginning...I was a disaster when we first started treating Kit. But as you go through all the info and ask all the questions you have, you'll see how everything starts to fall into place. The people here are fantastic!
 
All the sugar mamas here know their stuff. :) My vet also started my cat on 3units of Lantus 2x a day when my cat was first diagnosed. Not knowing about the message board, I gave it. When I did his first curve, I noticed he was getting way too low. So against my vets advise, I lowered it on my own and did another curve and found out he could try with no insulin. We are hitting our 2 week mark and so far, so good. The information that was given to me was more than my vet gave and I am nothing but grateful for this board and all the sugar mamas who helped us through our scary journey. Lowering he insulin tis a good idea, esp if your kitty is now on wet, low carb, high protein food. Good luck!
 
Hi. I understand how scared and confused you are as I'm going through it myself. I can't give you advice because I don't know much yet.

We started at 2u while I was blindly following my vet's prescription. I didn't home test at first, but when I finally did I was shocked to find his BG to be over 600. The vet pushed the dose up to 3u. I only gave the 3u dose to him once. Then, I did a crash course of research to try to feel educated about the "bouncing" syndrome, and all this diabetes business in general. I've given 2u every 12 hours since then. It's been a real roller coaster with my cat having BG readings in the 100s (even as low as 111) and then shooting back up to the 500s. I'm still giving 2u, and his readings are starting to come down to the low 300s with his last +6.5 after the AMPre-shot dose being under 300. We changed his food on Monday by mixing his old food with some Wellness Chicken and Beef, and I'll slowly transition to Wellness only. I still have no idea what will happen next, but I've got my fingers crossed.

Know that you are not alone, and you have a lot of support here. Good luck.

Dale
 
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