NEW to caring for a diabetic cat

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

birdbander

New Member
Hi everyone!
My 13-yr old cat, Indy, was diagnosed with diabetes about a month ago after he was taken to the emergency room. He was 16 lbs in Jan and weight in at 14 lbs in Apr, and still could stand to lose 2 more lbs, otherwise he's been a healthy cat his entire life. Additionally, he had some heart problems which started as an atrioventricular block and heart swelling, and is now only a right bundle branch block with one atria slightly swollen. He's being treated with 2U of glargine 2x per day and eating Purina DM, canned and wet.

This week he started to not be interested in eating and his bloodwork and urinalysis showed nothing out of the ordinary, except slightly elevated amounts of ALT related to his liver, so he goes back on Mon for an ultrasound to look at his liver and pancreas. Today, I decided it was time to force feed him to make sure he would eat, since I skipped his does this AM b/c the little he did eat, he regurgitated. Thankfully, after putting the canned DM in his mouth quite a few times, he eventually ate some on his own, and is now eating more this evening than he ate the last 3 days, so I could resume his dose this PM!

Now that his heart is returning back to normal, I'm able to spend more time researching diabetes, trying to figure out how best to care for him, and find a vet who will work with me better. I've read alot about the food and less about home testing for blood glucose and/or ketones in the urine. I have a few questions.

I've read through Janet & Binky's food pages, which I'm extremely thankful for! I found them when trying to find more healthful food for my cats. My cats have been raised on dry Science Diet, and last winter I switched to dry Wellness Core, which they seemed to like initially, but both no longer like. Indy has a brother, Cody, who also could lose some weight. Cody is now eating dry Wellness Complete Health Chicken and canned Wellness Complete Health (we're working on which flavor).

1. Do you generally find a food that works and that your cat eats and stick with it?
2. How often or do you call the manufacturer to periodically verify the nutritional content (fat, protein, etc)?
3. It sounds like alot of people suggest home testing, which I do need to read more about. Has anyone decided not to home test, and if so, why?
4. Is it common for diabetic cats who are otherwise healthy to lose their appetite occasionally?
5. Indy not eating has been so strange, especially since he acts and seems otherwise normal. Why do they seem to turn their noses up at food, but once you put it in their mouth they decide to eat it? And sometimes only eat very little. I can't tell if he decides he doesn't want *that* food or just doesn't have an appetite. He seems to need to smell/taste it from my finger before he will eat it from the bowl. Could this be a perpetual routine?
6. Has anyone seen/heard of cats getting a dirt line along the top edge of their nose that won't rub off?
7. Has anyone experienced their cat very occasionally sitting with their mouth slightly open, or with their cheeks puffing out? (not panting)

Apologies for all the questions, but it's been a roller coaster of a month for both of us. He is my baby and I'm up at night worrying about him!! I'm thankful to have a forum to share all of this with, so thanks for reading!

Thanks so much,
Gina
 
Dear Gina,
The very first thing I want to say is this. It is never ever a good idea to shoot insulin at all when your kitty is not eatting.
Now I'll repost your Q's and give my A's ok?

1. Do you generally find a food that works and that your cat eats and stick with it?

Yes, I would say most of us do. But cats being cats...and sometimes finicky,you lhave to be prepared at times to have a variety of menu choices on hand.


2. How often or do you call the manufacturer to periodically verify the nutritional content (fat, protein, etc)?

never. I feed nature variety raw rabbit, and several flavors of fancy feast. I trust what I am choosing is still low carb.

3. It sounds like alot of people suggest home testing, which I do need to read more about. Has anyone decided not to home test, and if so,
why?

Gina this is a must not a maybe. It is not safe, nor will you stand a chance of going from insulin dependent to diet regulated without testing.
Not to mention...if you change diet to a lower carb...and kittys number drop and you shoot same dose...well, you may not see the disaster in the making (hypo) until it is too late. This happens with kitties who are tested...we see this so often it is not even funny. Cats who do NOT need a shot. Had it not be for the test they would have recieved a shot....consequenses are potentially fatal.
Plus testing your kitty is a wonderful bonding eventually. You may fear it at first. You may consider it a hassle. But I beleive all of us here (numbering in the maybe 1000's) who test have kitties who have grown to enjoy to ritual and we kind of like it too.

4. Is it common for diabetic cats who are otherwise healthy to lose their appetite occasionally?
NO. Sure it can happen. But if it does when you are using insulin it is always cause for concern. First because you can nOT shoot a kitty on a hunger strike. Next is becuase no appetite could be a sign of Ketones...a horrible condition you want to avoid if at alllllll possible. More likely to happen if you are not testing. More on that topic later.

5. Indy not eating has been so strange, especially since he acts and seems otherwise normal. Why do they seem to turn their noses up at food, but once you put it in their mouth they decide to eat it? And sometimes only eat very little. I can't tell if he decides he doesn't want *that* food or just doesn't have an appetite. He seems to need to smell/taste it from my finger before he will eat it from the bowl. Could this be a perpetual routine?

Please be aware that this is not normal, nor a good sign. Again no shots, Again please get a sugar reading with this behaviour as well as a ketone test. Keto-stix are sold at the pharmacy, or walmart, or stores that sell diabetic stuff. about $10. you slide under a fresh stream of urine to read.

6. Has anyone seen/heard of cats getting a dirt line along the top edge of their nose that won't rub off?

ummm, not sure about this one.

7. Has anyone experienced their cat very occasionally sitting with their mouth slightly open, or with their cheeks puffing out? (not panting)

again, neeed more info. please test your kitty.
and if you'd like a kit that will start you with everything you need check out newbie kits link at the bottom of my signature.

Gina, I don't say this lightly. You can not treat diabetes without testing blood sugar.
And Welcome by the way to our family of sugar kitties.

Lori
and tomtom too!
 
Hi Gina, and, of course, you too, sweet Indy -- and, your bro Cody,

Well, gosh... You are a researcher! So, please let me simply start out welcoming you to the place you never wanted to be; but, will be blessed for having found.

Before I humbly answer your questions (or maybe just some of them...), I don't know anything about Indy's heart issues, okay? Although it appears he's making progress, I don't what affect this may have on my answering your specific questions. Others here might. Think of me as kind of a fearless welcomer to the sugar dance, okay?

birdbander said:
1. Do you generally find a food that works and that your cat eats and stick with it?
Click to expand...
I wish I could type the sound my mouth just made... Then again, I was trained by Giz, who defied just about every eating protocol for a sugar cat. Yet, we danced for four years (and, she was 14 at diagnosis...)

So! Let's talk about Nikki. She likes cat food! She only eats Fancy Feast low carb canned (wet) food. She basically eats Classic Chicken, Beef, Chicken and Liver, and Turkey and Giblets, along with Chunky Chicken, Turkey, and Chopped Grill. I mix them up because she's a cat. Cats are creatures of habit with just about everything but food. So, sometimes I'll give her Classic Chicken and Tuna, or Flaked Trout or Flaked Tuna. It's a mood thing. She may be extra-sweet, but she's still a cat...


birdbander said:
2. How often or do you call the manufacturer to periodically verify the nutritional content (fat, protein, etc)?
Click to expand...
Quite frankly, Gina, I've never actually done that. I've simply been beyond grateful for everyone else who has and does. But, you can. You could be one of those wondrous people on Janet and Binky's Famous Food Charts who are noted for updating them! (Note to self: think about Gina's question about calling manufacturers.)


birdbander said:
3. It sounds like alot of people suggest home testing, which I do need to read more about. Has anyone decided not to home test, and if so, why?
Click to expand...
It took me one month and 28 days to home test Gizzie because her ER vet strongly urged me not to and I was an emotional train wreck wimp. (This was back in 2003 and I will always love this vet for other things she did for Giz.) I'm not proud of it yet I learned a lot about the whole cat approach because I wasn't home testing. I was catching pee to check for ketones and the presence of sugar in her urine (Keto-Diastix) within a week or two. But, once I was home testing, I was both intrigued and grateful. Why intrigued? Because it was fascinating and I learned so much how she was reacting to the insulin and dose. Why grateful? Because without home testing, I would have never caught her hypo early on. Because without home testing, I would never have known she was getting way too much insulin based on vet checks based on vet stress. Giz could and would go up 150-200 points with a vet blood draw (and trust me, Gina, I checked my meter with her vet's and it was within 8 points). And, that was the number her vet was basing her dose on. Because without home testing, I wouldn't have reduced her dose.


birdbander said:
4. Is it common for diabetic cats who are otherwise healthy to lose their appetite occasionally?
Click to expand...
It could be a mood thing. Honestly, Gina, the most important thing for a diabetic cat is that they eat. Period. If Indy goes off his food for day, I'd call his vet. Why? DKA, diabetic ketoacidosis can come on in a flash with high numbers; or, HL, hepatic liver, after not too much longer of not eating. Also, if they go too low, hypoglycemia, they might be too dazed or too confused to eat. All reasons to home test and make sure they eat.


birdbander said:
5. Indy not eating has been so strange, especially since he acts and seems otherwise normal. Why do they seem to turn their noses up at food, but once you put it in their mouth they decide to eat it? And sometimes only eat very little. I can't tell if he decides he doesn't want *that* food or just doesn't have an appetite. He seems to need to smell/taste it from my finger before he will eat it from the bowl. Could this be a perpetual routine?
Click to expand...
Sometimes they just want attention. Sometimes they're getting used to insulin being administered in their bodies and need a little help in the beginning. Perhaps he might have a little cold or allergy or something that's involving his smell. Cats need to smell their food. Perhaps something stinkier might help. Perhaps sprinkling Parmesan cheese over his food might be stinkily enticing (Thank you dearest Anne, and darling French Fry). Do you have a Trader Joe's near you? The reason I'm asking is that Lisa, and Merlyn forever in our hearts, says that Trader Joe's Tuna for cats is so stinky it basically requires her to open all the windows and leave her apartment. But, her cats love it! Perhaps it's time for a different bowl. Sometimes Nikki just likes food served on a little plate instead of her bowl (or maybe she just wants a second choice...). There are meds to increase appetites. Always had good luck with Cyprohepdamine (sp?), although there are probably newer ones. Call your vet if Indy's inappetance continues. He's on insulin and needs to eat.



birdbander said:
6. Has anyone seen/heard of cats getting a dirt line along the top edge of their nose that won't rub off?
Click to expand...
I haven't. Is Indy indoor/outdoor? If indoor only, how can I put this gently? Hmmm... Could it be dried mucous? See aforementioned cold/allergy mention regarding stinky food...


birdbander said:
7. Has anyone experienced their cat very occasionally sitting with their mouth slightly open, or with their cheeks puffing out? (not panting)
Click to expand...
Nikki only sits with her mouth slightly open when she's about to bite me. Also, her cheeks only slightly puff and huff when she's about to bite me. Is Indy about to bite you when he exhibits these things? It could behavioral. But, when in doubt, call his vet.


Honestly, Gina, you have questions you're probably going to have to consult with Indy's vet about. We can certainly help you with his diabetes. I'm just humbly concerned he might be betting too much insulin. Then again, he's still getting dry food, so it's a tough call. The dry food could be what's saving him if he is getting too much insulin. Sigh.. It's a tough call...


You have come to the right place, dear Gina.

Love and encouraging hugs for you, Indy -- and Cody, who's calmly watching all of this,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...
 
birdbander said:
Apologies for all the questions, but it's been a roller coaster of a month for both of us. He is my baby and I'm up at night worrying about him!!
Click to expand...

PS: I forgot to humbly suggest that you breathe, dear Gina. Just breathe.

It's a mommy thing, okay?

Are you breathing now?

Continued love and encouraging hugs,
Deb

PPS: Dancing with a sugar is definitely a roller coaster in the beginning! Then again, life with a sugar cat is both interesting and rewarding...
 
Welcome to FDMB.

Most of us who have an actively diabetic cat home test. When I first arrived here and was lurking, someone commented to a new member who asked about home testing, "If you had a diabetic child, would you give that child a shot of insulin without testing first?" (I'd expand that to include if I were diabetic would I shoot without testing first?) I closed my computer and promptly went out and bought a meter, lancets, and strips and haven't looked back. You can see Gabby's spreadsheet if you click on the link in my signature. (Don't panic -- I test a lot.) IMHO, you have absolutely no control over your cat's BG (blood glucose) levels without test data. In addition, Lantus/glargine dosing is based on the lowest point of the cycle (the nadir), not on the pre-shot test. As a result, you need to get more tests than just your pre-shot.

I would also hazard to guess that the vast majority of people here do not feed dry food. We strongly encourage you to feed low carb, canned food. By low carb, we mean less than 10% carbs -- and most of us feed considerably lower than 10%. However, I would not eliminate the dry food from your cat's diet until you are able to home test. Eliminating high carb food could have a fairly immediate effect and could drop BG numbers to low levels and without testing, you could not keep your cat safe.

I have, on occasion, contacted a manufacturer regarding carb and other nutrient counts. I've done this if there is some change in the food or a new food is introduced that's not on Janet & Binky's list.

I would encourage you to read a bit more about Lantus and it's use. Below is an overview of some of the linked notes that are on the Lantus board and the information contained in those starred, sticky notes.
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal versions -- the Tilly Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany and the Queensland/Rand protocol developed by Jacqui Rand, DVM and published in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot/shed: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Becoming Data Ready: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation.
 
hi gina! you've come to the right place - i found it for my cat & i in February and am very grateful for everyone's help here.

you have a lot on your plate. i don't know anything about the heart stuff - although there are plenty of people on here who have kitties with problems in addition to their diabetes, or who have other cats in their family with other medical issues. i hope someone can answer those questions for you.

i was also having my cat's blood sugar tested at the vet's once a week - and can tell you that i'm honestly amazed my cat survived that. we did that from december-february, and all that while my radar was rising, because i was reading online and what i was finding online didn't match with what the vet was telling me. my decision was eventually to go to home testing and follow the protocol here with help from people here on how to dose my cat. consider it - do you know any human diabetic who doesn't test their blood before they shoot insulin? it defies logic that you wouldn't do it with an adult, but with a 10 or 15 pound tiny critter you would give insulin without testing.

i adore my vet - he's a good man, he knows a lot, but he doesn't know cat diabetes. that's just the truth. he's trying, but he made some major mistakes with us and i am just grateful that i have the experts here to help us get through this. the people here do feline diabetes 24/7 for years on end. my vet practice (3 vets) had 1 other diabetic cat. i asked them to test my cat for acromegaly, a condition that causes a need for large doses of insulin, and they'd never heard of it. there are several cats on this site with it. just one example of how folks here know more than the vet on this topic. i'm not slamming vets, but they have to cover a lot of animals and a lot of medical conditions. they can't be experts in all of it.

my cat's my priority - i love him and i want to help him as much as i can - so i learned to hometest, shedding a few tears of aggravation along the way. it took about a week before i felt pretty good at it. i switched him to fancy feast low carb canned foods, the chicken & turkey are the mainstays and i give him fish on the weekends for a treat. i trust the janet & binky's food charts - i don't have any concern about just going by those.

the crusty nose thing - my dog had that and i recall asking the vet about it. if i remember right (years ago) i think he said it was like dry skin. it was either dry skin or an aging issue. It wasn't a health issue, but i would surely mention it to your vet just in case you're seeing something different.

We're all here to help you. there's someone online almost 24/7 - so ask away and we'll all be glad to answer. it won't be long before you find yourself wanting to help new folks yourself because the learning curve is steep and once you've got it, you want to "pay back" for what others have done for you.

welcome!

by the way, someone said to me "it's a marathon, not a sprint." that was the best advice ever. i remind myself of it regularly. i used to get up every morning and wonder if punkin was still alive. sounds morbid, but that's what i thought. now i have confidence that he is because i tested him the night before i feel *mostly* in control.

ps - does your vet know that dosing is based upon the nadir of lantus? the nadir is the point in the 12 hour cycle when the insulin reaches its peak strength, generally around 6 hours after the shot, although that time can vary. i don't think my vet even knew that. if your vet doesn't know that, that should tell you something. if you are going in to the vet to have the blood sugar checked, it should be 6ish hours after the shot - and even with that i would be a nervous nellie giving insulin without home testing. Take a look at punkin's spreadsheet in my sig line below and you can see that although punkin's dose has changed by very little, his numbers have been all over the map, including going hypoglycemic. without home testing i would never have known that.

sorry for being so long-winded. somehow i've become passionate about the issue! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
B B B But,,,,before you switch to an all low carb wet food diet...either drop dose immediately or get that meter.
the change in diet alone may necessitate an immediate change of dose as Sienne said.
 
did y'all read where this kitty has lost interest in food?
 
I reiterate what Sienne said....before you change the diet especially removing dry food or DM, please home test. We can help you learn how. I think the other ladies have given you some great answers. We are all here to help!!

And Julie...that someone was ME ("marathon not a sprint") but I can't take credit for it...someone told it to me since i scarcely like to wear my patience pants.
 
lori and tom said:
did y'all read where this kitty has lost interest in food?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Deb415andNikki said:
It could be a mood thing. Honestly, Gina, the most important thing for a diabetic cat is that they eat. Period. If Indy goes off his food for day, I'd call his vet. Why? DKA, diabetic ketoacidosis can come on in a flash with high numbers; or, HL, hepatic liver, after not too much longer of not eating. Also, if they go too low, hypoglycemia, they might be too dazed or too confused to eat. All reasons to home test and make sure they eat.


Sometimes they just want attention. Sometimes they're getting used to insulin being administered in their bodies and need a little help in the beginning. Perhaps he might have a little cold or allergy or something that's involving his smell. Cats need to smell their food. Perhaps something stinkier might help. Perhaps sprinkling Parmesan cheese over his food might be stinkily enticing (Thank you dearest Anne, and darling French Fry). Do you have a Trader Joe's near you? The reason I'm asking is that Lisa, and Merlyn forever in our hearts, says that Trader Joe's Tuna for cats is so stinky it basically requires her to open all the windows and leave her apartment. But, her cats love it! Perhaps it's time for a different bowl. Sometimes Nikki just likes food served on a little plate instead of her bowl (or maybe she just wants a second choice...). There are meds to increase appetites. Always had good luck with Cyprohepdamine (sp?), although there are probably newer ones. Call your vet if Indy's inappetance continues. He's on insulin and needs to eat.
Click to expand...
 
Oscar has sometimes gone on hunger strikes. Usually a crushed up freeze dried chicken treat sprinkled on his food gets him to eat. He'll require that for a week or so, then finally give in and eat regularly again.

The open mouth breathing can be due to the heart issues. Usually this is either an asthma sign or a heart problem sign, and you have already confirmed the heart problems. The better control you can get on the heart problems, the more the open mouth breathing should go away.

Especially with him not eating much and not getting insulin, you REALLY need to be testing for ketones. This is a prime situation for them to become a problem. If you can get some food in him, then go with a reduced dose of insulin. If he is eating normally, then give the regular dose. 2u isn't a whopper dose, especially if MD dry is in the picture, but home testing will definitely help you both in trying to get your kitty off insulin, and in trying to prevent dangerous hypoglycemic episodes.
 
Thank you all for the feedback and candidness/willingness to put your honest feedback out there. I just ordered my newbie kit and will start home testing as soon as I get it! And, will go buy strips to test for Ketones in his urine. He was tested for them on Fri at the vet, and they were not present. Some notes, Indy is indoor, and his heart and lungs were checked for the sometimes strange breathing. I'm also monitoring his heart rate and respiratory rate. As a side Q - Does anyone have experience with how heart rate or respiratory rates may change in relation to blood glucose levels? I assume hypoglycemia would lower both.

I have asked many of the questions I previously posted to my current vet, and have gotten unsatisfactory answers - hence why I will be shopping for a new one this week. The other problem is that his initial heart condition was pretty rare, and resolved into a much less severe condition, and they do not know how or why this happened or if it's somehow related to the onset of diabetes. We were thrown into who we got at the hospital b/c of his emergency care, and it's the only place I can take him where I live that can do ECG and ultrasounds for heart, liver, etc. It's been very frustrating, b/c she discouraged me from home testing but yet didn't seem *that* concerned about his not eating well. Although he is going back tomorrow for an ultrasound. It could just be a different communication style, but I fear that Indy is not being taken care of as well as he could be.

I know that I should not give a shot when Indy hasn't eaten, but not sure how much food he needs to eat to get his shot. (Also something I asked the vet, and she really didn't give me an answer - she told me to call them when I had questions and usually just asks if he seems 'normal', athough she did suggest to bring him in again last week). I'm terrified, b/c I don't know what is 'normal' for Indy anymore. The vet keeps telling me he probably used to be a ravenous eater b/c he was diabetic. Well, either he's been a diabetic for a large portion of his life, or he is a ravenous eater. He used to eat so fast he'd regurgitate. I initially was afraid to home test, b/c I was already an emotional wreck and thought it might make me more panicked and make silly decisions. I realize it's not rational, especially with my background in science, but I wanted to settle down emotionally to take this next step.

Thank you for the advice to breathe. Some days are better than others. Now that he is eating without force feeding, I feel a slight bit of relief. I generally feel like an emotional train wreck worrying about him, so thank you for the encouraging words.

Now time for me to read up on home testing and to browse your spreadsheets! I'm sure I will have more questions in a week.

Thanks again for your support!
 
Awwww, Gina....ya know, we all of us arrive in about the same state of worry, panic, some hysterics, some tears etc....
We all do.
And we all come to be just fine in time.
And amazingly our kitties usually beat us to 'fine' in a matter of days with proper food, along with porper dose as per testing results. They tend to bounce back quickly.
Take US a while to bounce back from the ledge at times.

But as for your vet...good thing you have joined our little troop.
There is almost no mistake your vet can make about FD that you cannot check out here first and get right.

I would not want to shoot unless Indy show's a modecum of interest in eatting himself. Because he may just throw up...or it may not be enough. What is enough? depends how often he eats...a grazer? how much does he weigh?

Your kit will go out first thing in the morning Monday.
Should arrive Wed. Shipped 'Priority"
Will have all you need to start the testing asap.
I'm going to find a video someone here made of testing there own kitty and brb.
You are doing great being so pro-active.

I'd say Indie is going to be getting the 5 star treatment for his 'dire beasties' as the kitties here like to call them.

Lori
and tomtom too!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

now while you may not believe it can be this easy....i will say this: for most of us it is. yep, probably 90% of us get to do it so easily that it's over and done within 30 seconds (except for the luvins and the treats kitty gets for being so good)

might i suggest you start now, before the kit arrives. find the comfy place for both of you that you expect to do the testing. bring some tasty low carb treats to this spot (i know kitty is'nt very hungry) will he except some extra luvins on his favorite parts. start telling him how wonderful he is and especially this ear is sooooo beautiful and start gently rubbing it. he should become accustomed to you touching and rubbing that ear.
and when you do get to test. remember, as far as Indy is concerned, there are NO failed attempts. only glorious times with that wonderful ear. YOU may feel frustrated if you don't get that first pokey just right....but Indy is a rock star EVERY SINGLE TIME.
you get it right? this is HIS time, not yours. he is the greatest yes?

Lori
and tomtom too!
 
Hello to Mommy & Indy'...
I am very new to the sugar dance, but we are doing great... I just wanted to respond to the testing issue... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not shoot w/out testing.... my first test was after approx. 2 weeks of 1 unit 2xday... curve at vet, him raising it to 2 units 2xday...which after being on this site, did not do the full 2 but did up the dose a small bit. I was not testing at home cuz I was scared and cuz the vet really did not push the issue when I brought it up; however, I was feeling more and more that I should because of this site! I finally got my 'big girl panties' on and tested for the first time (which took approx. 4 pokes to get a sample). I was +2 over the dose time and she was a BIG FAT 26!!! I did learn the hard way, many folks on this site stayed w/ me for 4+ hours, posting and on the phone - stepping me thru bringing up her numbers... WAS HELL!

I guess I just want to say TEST TEST TEST TEST! Then shoot! My Bean girl is sooo carb sensitive I have found out, and you can look at the spreadsheet that I have just started for her if you would like. In my notes on the side, I have recorded when she gets into the others higher carb dry food (caught her red handed)!

Oh my, how I hated to poke those tiny beautiful ears at first... still dont like to do it now, and the darn right one just will not bleed to save her life.... so the left is really probably getting sore as you know what, buttttt..... she will at least be tested 1 to 2 times a day, usually at shot time... Probably will be chastised here for not doing it more often.....I was so scared to do this that I had my kit for approx. 1 week before I even got it out.... I am still not the best at pokey poke time, but I AM BETTER... And Bean bonds with me now better than what she used to.... I started with the whole towl on lap... talking, rubbing, and play/rubbing the ears before the kit even came in the mail...She also gets a small treat...100% tuna flakes from Petco while mommy rubs those little ears.... then a small one when done... lots of loving words, baby, sweet talk and we get to bond... she gets tested and then she gets to go outside for her 10 min. of fun!!!!

Welcome here and please test your baby first!
Mommy to sugar bean, slappy girl, and new heart patient gumpy girl
 
Oh Bell, I won't chastise you for not testing more! Your baby does'nt even get a shot anymore after you started testing...she does'nt need insulin! Unless of course she gets into the forbidden food....then you see what happens, ZOOM to the moon numbers.
no insulin, not so much on the testing. is ok.
But your story of that special night in history. Your introduction to testing sweet bean. very first test was a hypo number...and the insulin had not so much as kicked in (the most recent shot) so we all here knew she was going to go much much lower (did'nt have any lower to go really without a coma) so yes, your intro was dramatic, and intense. You are a true Vampire now and can easily get blood when you need it.
We don't want this to happen to anyone else. You are so good to stick around and tell your story to every untesting newbie who appears.
Let us remind folks that Bean showed absolutely no signs that she was maybe an hour away from seizure and/or coma without immediate intervention of whatever carbs were found in Bells house...which included milk soaked bits of bread with honey on top.
We would like to say NEVER AGAIN but some mommies are harder to convince than others...probably the vets fault.
Lori
 
Which reminds me Gina, do you have your hypo tool box ready? A few cans of high carb (18%) gravy like food. A bottle of Karo syrup, or honey, or pancake syrup, calm nerves, always enuf strips, and access to us.... :mrgreen: .
It is good to keep your HC (high carb) cans in a seperate place than your low carb...so you don't accidently grab it unintentionally.
but always know where to reach it in an emergency.
And Dear Gina, a bit early in your education to tell you this...but I see this all to often too. A low number is only as low as where it is in the cycle. If a number is low...say 10 hours since you shot insulin...is not so much an emergency. I mean 26 is always kind of an emergency...but much bigger if say only an hour or 2 after you gave your shot.

This number would likely never have shown up if the test were given before Bell shot the insulin. Why? It is unlikely she had a shootable number in the first place.

Is this TMI?
 
Dear Lori! You are soo right and that is why I WILL stick around and try to tell my story, which is nice because it has a happy ending! WHY?? Because of this site, hugs, information, love and our wonderful sugar babies!!! If I get just one person to test and not shoot first, that could just save one wonderful sugar baby from a fatal ending, it is sooo well worth it... Just hope the not so newbies do not get tired of seeing me post it! lol!!! :oops:
Love & hugs to you and tomtom!
 
Never Bell, you and Bean are a legend now...and no one will EVER tire of seeing you encourage newbie's with your story.
Don't you think I wonder if peeps tire of me saying 'hey please test your kitty, even against vet's orders?'
Or, 'hey, pick up that dry kibble'
Nah, no one here minds hearing the same advice. Becuase it is good advice. It is life saving advice. My biggest 'tired of' is hearing of vets who poo poo this idea of home testing.
THAT IS WHAT I AM TIRED OF!
 
Thank you all for the additional comments!!!! Now I'm terrified to give him his insulin until I can home test this week.

To Lori - Indy weighs 13.9 lbs, and they calculated his food intake if eating the Purina DM. If he eats canned, he gets 2 5.5 oz cans and if dry, he gets 2/3 C. All of this total per day. Prior to his lowered appetite, he was only consuming about 3/4 the amount above (so total ~1/2 C dry per day). What scares me is now all he is eating is the canned food, and I have no idea how they calculated his needed insulin or what they were feeding him while he was in the hospital. But since he's been home (Apr 19) until this past week, he was eating dry Purina DM. Today he's only eaten about 1/4 of 1 5.5 oz can, eating it all on his own. I don't let them graze b/c my 2 cats live with a third kitty and they all want each other's food, of course!!! So, I will feed him again before and after his shot time, but don't know how to judge whether to give him his shot or if in a smaller dose. He had a fructosamine test (which some vets think is an unreliable test) done 9 days ago and those values were ~490. I'm guessing he may eat another 1/4 of 1 5.5 oz can, so total for the day this would be 1/2 of 1 5.5 oz can, which is 1/3 of what he was eating prior to this week. I hope this isn't too confusing.

How would you proceed for the next few days? Eeeeeeeeep.

Gina
 
Gina,

Okay big deep breath, eating all canned is fine as long as he is eating enough of it, and his tummy is fine with it, in fact that is what you want him to do. If he really isn't thrilled with the DM canned, there are lots of cheaper and just as good commerical foods out there, maybe you could try a few, and see if there is something he likes better. I have 11 cats, (only 1 diabetic) but when my first diabetic came home she was on canned DM, not a single one of my cats would touch the stuff after a couple of days. So when I adopted Maxwell after my first girl passed away (not from diabetes), we stared feeding everyone the same thing that my diabetic now eats, just good old fashioned Friskies Pate, but many folks here feed Fancy Feast, Evo, Wellness or even Wal-mart's store brand Special Kitty.

Here's the link to the lists we use when picking out our sugarcats' menu. http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html You just want to look for things that are under 10% carbs (third column). And if you find something he likes better then take the unused DM back and tell them he just won't eat it. Or some other ideas for getting a kitty to eat would be: Sprinkling it with really stinky cheese, warming it up in the microwave, even sometimes if he is a big catnip fan sprinkling it with a little nip. You can also get a product called Fortiflora from your vet, that can be sprinkled on the canned food to make it more appealing. But he needs to eat, whatever that takes right now.

As far as giving insulin before you are home-testing, while scary it can be done, first read and print out the signs and treatment for hypos and put that somewhere easy to get to if you need it. (ours is taped to the frig). Get a hypo kit or two together and have everyone know where it is if you should need it. And I personally don't think I would give anymore than .5 to 1u twice a day until I could test, better to be a little high for a few days more than too low for a moment.

Or if you can swing it and you have a Wal-mart nearby you can get a good little meter called the Relion Micro for about $9-12 a box of 50 test strips for $20 and a couple dollars more for a box of lancets, and you would be all set for under $35, even picking up a thing of Ketostixs to test for ketones.

Mel, Max and The Fur Gang
 
Gina --

Is there any reason you can't feed all of your cats the same food? Low carb is good for any cat. Cat's are obligate carnivores. In other words, they don't need grain or any form of carb (vegetable or fruit). You might want to take a look at Lisa Pierson, DVM's website on feline nutrition if you're not totally overwhelmed with information already. When someone here pointed out that I could feed both of my guys the same food it made my life immeasurably easier.

How much does Indy currently weigh? And, is this a good weight for your cat. This is a formula that is on Dr. Lisa's site for calculating the amount of calories a cat needs per day. It's generous so if Indy is eating somewhat less than this, it's OK.

Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70​
If Indy needs to lose weight, you don't want him to do so too rapidly.
 
no Gina, not confusing.
his appetite is def. down.
be safe. feed as much as he can eat and cut your dose IMHO
maybe give him 1unit.
question...did you switch to all wet AFTER the fructosamine?

better being scared now...not advocating fear----but better now than seeing symptoms you are frightened of.
i am sending you 50 strips and a free style meter with lancets, rice sock to warm ear...toys.
if you want to go get yourself a free style and keep it as back up...get a few strips...?
you can be calm in the knowledge that he is eatting low carb and has some insulin on board right?
 
Hi Gina.

I don't have time to read all or the posts in your condo...so pardon me, if I repeat what has already been said...
but I do have time to say welcome :) and we will help you.
My cat J.D. ate Purina DM dry and then wet for about a month and a half to 2 months and then he was "through with it". I have heard that a lot of cats won't even tolerate it that long. I hope that you will try out some of the other options, like the low carb Fancy Feast. I have both my cats (one diabetic and one not) eating Fancy Feast only. They eat a variety of I don't know about 10 or 12 different flavors.
I'll also say good luck to you, and I hope you keep posting and asking questions, because we're here to help you.
Keep breathing.
 
Hi Gina!

A lot of cats don't like the DM because it's mostly liver. I would definitely try a different food and see if he takes to it. Bandit is a kitty garbage disposal (he also will eat so fast he pukes if I let him), and he'll turn up his nose at foods that are mostly liver.

Here's a list of Fancy Feast flavors that are diabetic safe: http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm, Or you can take a look at Janet & Binky's list and pick something under 10%.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top