New to board, when is best time to test blood?

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Yay, Kona is very happy to have a day off from blood testing. We will test again in a couple of days. Thank you all for the online party for Kona.
 
I am happy she is OTJ. Would you keep posting on the board and giving moral support to other newbies? Going OTJ is a success other newbies may gain hope from..
 
Thanks so much for the online party.

Kona continues to test in the normal range and I'll continue testing once a week to be sure she stays normal.

Yes, I will try to post in support of other newbies.
 
Re: Getting higher evening readings

Kona was doing really well so cut back on the testing. The past two evenings she's been at 119 and 120, higher than I'd like to see. She usually eats a late evening meal at 10 p.m.

I'm a little concerned. I'll try to get a test again later tonight after feeding, if I stay up late.

I'm still using the freestyle lite because her levels were looking really good.

As far as I can tell there is no specific reason for her to be higher. I thought she might have snatched some of the other cats' dry food but was very strict today about keeping any extra dry food out of reach.

Also, she hasn't been real good about eating. Still have her on Friskies pate and Fancy Feast classic.

Should I be worried?
 
Is there any chance she might have an infection? Urinary tract infections and dental problems are things you might want to consider

She's still just a little higher than we'd like to see, so it might be a good idea to get some more tests in for awhile to see exactly how she's doing. Test at AMBG, then every 2 hours (for a normal curve) or 3 hours (mini-curve) for a total of 12 hours. Keep track of when she eats in that time period too and let us know what you find out.

Make absolutely sure she's not getting into any contraband, like dry food too.

If she measures high during your curve, it might be a good idea to have her looked over at the vet for signs of infection. Let's see what her numbers are when you've done a little more testing

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the input.

I plan to check her again in a minute, before her 4 pm feeding. She really hates to have her blood taken so it's hard for me to test frequently because she gets less cooperative.

She has had a history of dental issue so I think infection is a possibility, and I hadn't thought of it.

We have been strictly monitoring the contraband dry food. I'm hoping she might be better today. She still isn't eating that well. I'll report back.
 
Hows she doing? I think a vet trip might be in order if she is still high because if she is falling out of remission you want to catch it early.

Wendy
 
I think maybe I should take her in to the vet. Tonight she had a reading of 197 at 10 pm! That's the highest I've gotten since I've been testing her at home. Then I tested it again immediately, did another prick and used a new test strip. I got 175. That is a pretty big variation but she is still high.

Yesterday's reading was 119.

I'm going to order the new meter tonight because I just don't think the FreeStyle Lite is good enough.

Oh, am wondering, I gave her some corn on the cob tonight. She always liked it. I didn't consider if that could raise her blood sugar level. I know in humans that corn is considered low glycemic but don't know how it would affect cats. I didn't even think anything of it.

She has lost a lot of weight and eats irregularly. Some days she's good at eating, other days she doesn't eat much. I'm keeping her on the recommended foods, Friskies pate and Fancy Feast classic.
 
If you can get to a WalMart, that'd be the best option for the meter. The Relion brand meters are about $15 and the strips are the cheapest around, as well as always available in case you run out.

The Prime has the cheapest strips at $9 for 50 but takes a little bigger blood sample. The Confirm or Micro are about $18 for 50 but take a really tiny amount of blood
 
vibeskat said:
I think maybe I should take her in to the vet ... She has lost a lot of weight and eats irregularly. Some days she's good at eating, other days she doesn't eat much....
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Yes. Vet. Weight loss, elevated glucose, and inappetance tell me something is wrong.

vibeskat said:
...I'm going to order the new meter tonight because I just don't think the FreeStyle Lite is good enough...
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If you're not a fan of WalMart, the generic version of the Confirm is the Arkray Glucocard 01 or 01 Mini. Available from our shopping partner ADW; link at top of page.

vibeskat said:
...Oh, am wondering, I gave her some corn on the cob tonight. ...
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That may do it; carbs. Cats respond differently from humans.

vibeskat said:
... I'm keeping her on the recommended foods, Friskies pate and Fancy Feast classic.
Click to expand...

Maybe go for the Fancy Feast Kitten Turkey and Giblets - a bit higher fat and protein.
 
Oh, rats. Didn't realize I needed to click the shop icon to give a credit to the site. I did order the Glucocard 01 and it has shipped.

I took Kona to the vet today. She has a tumor or growth of some kind on her belly, near a breast. Could be breast cancer. Given her age and health we're not going to do anything about it right now at least. My vet said that some studies have shown that cats who have these types of cancers removed don't really live longer with surgery. Plus, since Kona had a stroke the last time she was sedated we don't really want to do that again.

As far as the diabetes goes, she's still testing high. I'm waiting for the new glucose meter to come. My vet has the same brand of meter as I do. Hers reads higher than mine by about 20 points. For now we're not going to start Kona back on insulin. We're going to continue to monitor her and decide in a week or two what to do.

The vet didn't know if corn could have caused her to have high glucose readings but I'm not going to give it to her anymore.

The vet didn't think that the growth or tumor would cause a spike in blood glucose. She didn't have a temperature and lungs and heart sounded good. Her teeth looked ok.

We're supposed to try to get Kona to eat more, sometimes she responds to coaxing and some extra attention so will try that.

The vet didn't think I needed to test that much but I'm considering doing a curve when I get the new glucometer.

I'll look for the fancy feast kitten food. Is it still low enough in carbs?

It seems like she is going downhill, maybe from a combination of factors. We're still going to try to do the best we can for her. Not sure what that will mean exactly.
 
Sorry to hear about the lump. Hoping it's not anything serious and you have many more years with Kona.

Yes, the Fancy Feast kitten, turkey & giblets is low carb

As long as you're not giving insulin, it's not required that you do as much testing. I'd continue to test though since her numbers are a little high. If you choose not to treat her with insulin for the diabetes, that's your decision. Only you know what's best in your circumstances. As long as she stays below the renal threshold of about 240, hopefully you won't have any problems with kidneys to add to your problems.

Good luck to both you and Kona. Sometimes there are just no easy answers.
 
I hope the lump is nothing more serious than a cyst. I am glad you stopped the corn - it may likely be an issue to her BG

hows her BG today?

Wendy
 
Kona is doing ok. Yesterday she tested at 127. Today the new meter came, Glucocard 01. Tonight I tested her with both meters and the Arkray tested 146 while the Freestyle Lite tested 142. Pretty close. I guess she is still borderline and right now we are going to continue testing daily and then consult with our vet to see what she thinks.

Also, we did get some Fancy Feast turkey kitten food and Kona seemed to like it. I think she still isn't eating enough. We keep trying to encourage her to eat more.

We're not planning on doing a biopsy on the lump since she seems so frail now. I guess we're just going to take it as it comes and see how she does.

Today she went outside and sat in the sun for awhile. She really liked that. I kept an eye on her of course, good excuse for both of us to get outside.

Thanks everyone for your help. I'll let you know how she's doing.
 
Ok, thanks for all of your input. I've decided to give Kona a break on testing blood glucose today. She seems like she might not be feeling so well tonight.

We are coaxing her to eat as much as possible. She is very thin.

I'll test her blood tomorrow.

Thanks again. I really appreciate that you all take the time to answer my questions and care about Kona.
 
I think Kona is not nauseous. She does eat some, just not enough. We gave her some salmon that we prepared for dinner and she ate that up so offered her some fancy feast which she at a little of.

Tonight her BG was 220 testing with the Arkray. Yikes!!!!!!!!

Ok, so I have some decisions to make and a few questions.

In the past I had her on a half unit of insulin and I thought she tended to be low. I'm not sure I can measure less than that with my syringes, which do have half unit markings on them. I had trouble being accurate with drawing up the fluid. I did check some tips on it but am not sure I could give her a smaller dose.

Since she doesn't eat that well in general I'm concerned that I wouldn't be able to keep her on a schedule of regular insulin without her being low frequently. If I start to give insulin again do I have to maintain a regular schedule? It seems that I would need to. My vet mentioned possibly giving once a day instead of twice. Is that a good idea?

Also, my vet thought I should make the judgment about whether or not to start insulin again based on readings over the next couple of weeks. So I'm trying not to freak out over this one reading which is the highest I've ever gotten. Should I be worried?

I really want to do a trial of BG levels and won't have the time to do that until Monday.

Besides that we have this wild card of her having a growth that is near her breast. We don't really want to biopsy since she is kind of frail and it might just be too much for her.

Thanks for the link on tips for getting cats to eat. I'm going to go look at it now.
 
Having high blood glucose levels will slowly cause other organs in her body to fail, but having too low levels can kill quickly. She was probably diabetic for quite some time before she showed enough signs to get the diagnosis, so having her have higher numbers for a few more days shouldn't really cause too much trouble.

You should probably test for ketones especially if her numbers go much higher..if more than a trace, it's an emergency

Have you tried counting drops in your syringes? You can pull up some colored water or tea (makes it a little easier to see) and then you "twist" the plunger until it forms a drop at the end of the needle. If you can find out how many drops are in .5, you could get a better idea of where .25 might be.

Here's what .25 looks like to compare:
025unit-1.jpg


Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I know it has to be tough with the possibility of cancer on top of everything else. You might ask your vet what he/she thinks about doing a biopsy. At least then you'd have a better idea of what's to come with her. I know you're concerned about how frail she is, so I'd ask the vet their opinion of her condition and if they think she could handle the biopsy.
 
My vet wasn't too interested in doing a biopsy of the lump because of her health. Also, she had a stroke the last time she was sedated for dental work.

I'll try to get an AMBG and hope that the numbers are better.

My problem is that I can't really see well enough to find 1/4 unit on the syringe. And also it seems difficult to pull up the insulin to the correct level. I guess if we decide to go back to insulin I'll have to give it a try.
 
My problem is that I can't really see well enough to find 1/4 unit on the syringe.
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OK, but if you pull up (for example) 1 unit, you can twist the plunger until a drop forms on the needle...you can count how many drops you get in 1 unit. if you get (for example) 12 drops, then 6 drops would be .5 .....3 drops would be .25...so if you know all this, you can draw up 1 unit of insulin, and throw away 9 drops...what's left is 3 drops..or .25

Use colored water or tea to see what you can do with it...but that way, the only line you'll have to see is the 1 unit line...and then you have to "waste" the number of drops you have to go leave only 3 drops left...which would be .25

I think..my brain is tired tonight...if this doesn't make much sense, I'll try again tomorrow unless someone else can explain it better
 
vibeskat said:
...My problem is that I can't really see well enough to find 1/4 unit on the syringe. ...
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Miss Myopia (severe nearsightedness) suggests popping over to our shopping partner Amazon and searching for
A) clip on magnifiers if you wear glasses - Carson Clip and Flip (these worked great for me) come in a variety of strengths up to 4X. Pretty reasonably priced.
B) visor magnifiers which are on a headband.
C) stand magnifiers

Just click the link at the top of the page so FDMB gets credit.
 
We are hanging in there. Yesterday Kona tested 176 B.G. so she is on a downward trend from the highs in the 200's that we had.

One of our feral cats has been having some serious health issues so I have been a bit distracted by that.

But I'm checking Kona's blood once a day just to get a feel for where she is. She ate well this morning, not as well for the evening feeding.

The drop system for measuring insulin dosage is genius! If we do have to go back to it I will give that a try. Too bad we have to waste all that insulin though, it's quite expensive.

Thanks for the tips on magnifiers. If we end up doing insulin again I'll have to try something.
 
Yes, I have a whole bottle of Lantis in the frig. that we never even used once.

ETA, Kona tested 182 tonight. At least she's not going up over 200. I'd like to see lower numbers, though.
 
yes, before you want to think about getting rid of the insulin, you need to go 'officially' OTJ...we love our OTJ kitties...they have such great parties on day 14 of their OTJ trial

When you think you're ready to try an OTJ trial, here's how we suggest that's done

Test at your normal AMPS and PMPS times. Feed multiple small meals throughout the day as much as possible (small meals are less likely to overwhelm a newly functioning pancreas).
If he is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time, just feed small meals and go about your day. If he is blue, feed a small meal and test again after about 3 hours. If his number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then his pancreas is working!
Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens, we just give him the support he needs. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on.

Good luck when you decide you're ready to start your "trial"....we have some pretty good clawyers in the group that might help during your trial. :lol: :lol:
 
Have been keeping an eye on Kona. She seemed to not be doing well today and not eating well. She didn't eat her 4 pm food and at 5 I decided to test. She was as 292. I decided to try to give .25 unit as suggested by some people on this thread.

At 5 pm I gave a guess at .25 lantis. Then I gave her some hamburger which she ate. At 6:30 I gave her some Fancy Feast. We had to go out, though she was looking better and I was encouraged because she ate.

When I got home at 10:50 I tested right away and got a 33 reading with no symptoms. I immediately retested with a bigger sample and got 50 using the Arkray meter. Right after testing I gave her some Friskies with gravy since it is supposed to be higher carb. She ate some of it. I gave more Friskies pate and she ate a little of that. Then I gave her some more hamburger since I was pretty sure she would eat that. I've left her with the food to see if she will eat a little more and then will test again.

If she is still low should I give maple syrup?

I feel like I did the wrong thing giving her the insulin. We were thinking that she just didn't look good and when I got the high numbers I figured it was worth a try.
 
OK...retest her in 30 minutes and see where she's at...if she's still below 50, give her a little more of the "gravy" part of the "gravy lovers" kinds of foods. When they go below 50, we want to get them up, but not feed them SO much that they won't eat later if we need them to

Once she's above 50, don't feed her anymore and restest in 30 minutes...as long as she stays above 50, you need to keep testing every 30 minutes or so for 2 hours after the last time you gave her any food to make sure she STAYS up

If she drops below 50 again, another couple teaspoons of gravy (or Low carb food with a few drops of Karo, honey or syrup) and that "2 hour" rule starts over

You didn't do anything wrong..that 292 indicated maybe she needed it, but if she wasn't feeling well to begin with, I'd want to figure out why before restarting it based on just one blood glucose reading.

Hope Kona feels better soon!

Kathy...if Kona drops below 50 again (or is still below 50 when you retest), please go to the first post here (the very first one you posted) and add the 911 icon..just "edit" that first post and add the 911....it will help get you someone to help you quickly
 
That's good...don't feed her anymore and just keep testing for awhile longer...although it sounds like you gave her enough food to send her pretty high...and don't be surprised if you get some whacky numbers tomorrow

Glad she came up for you!
 
Just tested 166 at 12:40 am. Now I'm having trouble getting blood, too late at night. Will stay up to test at least once more.
 
Yes, she's been high lately. I thought I was kind of on that very small dosage. like in the photo you linked to. I am just a bit scared of the whole insulin thing. Especially because I'm not able to be around all the time in case she would go low. I often have to be out of the house for work. I wouldn't want to leave her and have her go extremely low while I"m gone. Also, she still eats very tiny portions of food per serving. We have to try to get food into her whenever we can.
 
At one point when I was researching how to shoot a small dose of insulin I found a youtube video on how to measure out drops from a syringe to figure out fractions of a unit dosages. I can't find it again. I'm wondering if anyone knows of this video and if so, could post a link to it.

I took Kona to the vet again today since she hasn't been eating much and has had bg in the 300's quite regularly.

The vet checked urine for ketones and she didn't show positive for that.

Right now she suggested syringe feeding because Kona isn't eating and has lost about a pound since the last visit. She doesn't want to try insulin again right away since Kona isn't eating enough. I'm also hesitant since the last time I did give insulin she went down to 50.

Anyway, that's the status update for Kona.

If anyone has that link to the video I'd appreciate it if you could post it.

thanks.
 
:RAHCAT
So delighted to see you and puss are OTJ!!
Keep up the good work. You are a good catmother.
 
vibeskat said:
At one point when I was researching how to shoot a small dose of insulin I found a youtube video on how to measure out drops from a syringe to figure out fractions of a unit dosages. I can't find it again. I'm wondering if anyone knows of this video and if so, could post a link to it.
Click to expand...

I don't know about a video, but there is this post on measuring a dose consistently that has pictures.
 
We are having a hard time with Kona. Her BG numbers have been high and we're trying to give 1/4 unit Lantis. However, it doesn't seem to be working that well and I'm considering going to 1/2 unit. BUT she isn't eating well. We've tried many of the suggestions to get her to eat and she still isn't eating enough. I'm thinking I'm going to syringe feed tonight and try 1/2 unit. She was at 238 this morning before feeding. We gave insulin 1/4 unit at 10:15 a.m.
Tonight at 10:05 pm she tested 402, then I immediately re-tested and got 394.

How long should it take for the insulin to start bringing the numbers down?

Last night she was at 321 before eating and before insulin. Then 1 hour 20 minutes later she was at 341, up 20 points.

I'm having trouble understanding these numbers and why we are getting them.

She is eating Friskies pate and Fancy Feast classic, no dry food.

Is 402 an emergency on the high end?
 
The worry when their numbers are high is ketones. Are you checking Kona?

If her BG are running high, plus she's not eating, she could be starting DKA and that's an emergency. If you test her urine and get more than a trace of ketones, get her to the vet immediately!! You can get ketostix at any pharmacy over the counter...they're about $9 at WalMart

What would REALLY help is if you'd start keeping track of her numbers on our Spreadsheet so we can see how she's doing. It's almost impossible to advise you on dose adjustments without seeing where she's been and how she's responded to insulin in the past.

Here's How to get a spreadsheet

The increase of 20 points after eating isn't unusual, but I'd be concerned about Kona not being under better control. It's totally possible she needs more insulin, but again, without having the spreadsheet, it makes it really hard to say. We don't like to "guess" when it comes to increasing!

Another quick thing that will help is for you to go ahead and add some information to your Signature Box. You already have your name and Kona's there, but if you could add her diagnosis date, what type of insulin you're using, which meter you use to test with, and any other health issues Kona has, it'll keep us from having to ask the same questions over and over again. Just go to the User Control Panel (top left) and click on Profile...then "Edit Signature"....add the info and "Submit"

As for the eating, how much does she weigh and how much do you feed her?
 
Thanks. It's going to take me some time to figure out the spreadsheet.

Kona weighs about 6 lb. lost a lot of weight. She's old, probably 12 years at least.
 
The spreadsheet isn't really too hard. You have to sign into Google, but if you use the spreadsheet that's included in that link, all you have to do is put the numbers in...it'll do the rest

If you need help, there are others here that can help you too!
 
Remember the way Lantus works.. its not the preshot number that you base dose changes on - its the mid cycle number - the lowest point of the cycle. because you don't want to raise the dose if this number is already low and push them into hypo!

So, can you get some mid cycle tests?

here is an example of how lantus works to bring the blood sugar down

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle). This is the number you base dose changes on. It does vary by cat though.. anywhere from +4 to +8.
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.

Wendy
 
Thanks for the info. on how Lantus works and also on the spreadsheet. I will try to set it up tomorrow. I don't have a google account so I guess I'll have to get one.

We're getting Kona to eat a little more and are hanging in there with giving the insulin.

Also, I'll try to get a mid-cycle reading tomorrow.
 
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