New To Board, Need Help With Numbers

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Brenmac

Brenmac

Member Since 2013
Hi all,
2 months ago my sweet 12 year old girl, Rhea, was diagnosed diabetic. Her initial BG at that time was 230. We started her on 1.5 units of Lantus 2x daily and switched from free feeding to feeding 2x daily, giving Medical Diabetic hard food.

Since that time I've been reading everything I can on this board and some other online resources.

I had her in for a glucose curve about 2 weeks after diagnosis. The vet declared her numbers to still be too high and advised to move her up to 2 units 2x daily, I was disappointed and decided to take more control of her treatment.

I then switched her to soft food - Friskies Turkey Giblets pate with extra water mixed in, still 2x daily with her needle. I upped her insulin to 2 units. I continued this for approx 3 weeks. She didn't seem to be improving, her neuropothy was still quite bad, and she was lethargic.

The fee my vet charges for a curve is beyond my ability to cover as often as she suggests, so I picked up a glocometer - an Accu-Check Compact Plus, second hand to try and monitor her at home.

She hasn't taken kindly to having her ear pricked, but so far I have gotten the following 2 readings:
Once, at 4.5 hours post feeding & needle she was 2.8 mmol/L. Then, on a different day, at 11 hours post feeding & needle (or, pre needle) she was 8.2 mmol/L

I felt these were a bit too low and decided to change her back to 1.5 units 2x daily. I haven't dared a test since but she seems less lethargic, more alert.
I understand how important monitoring is, and I will make an effort to test more often. But, my question is, are these numbers ok in your wise opinion(s)? Should I try to see if my machine will read mg/dL instead? Is that more accurate?

Any advice is appreciated!
Thanks for reading :)
 
Welcome
Either units of measurement fine. Yes, the 2.8 (50 USA) at + 4.5 is too low for comfort. The 8.2 (147 USA) before shot isa boot preshot (PS) number.
Almost all of use here test before each shot. The is especially important when just starting.
You should ditch the dry and use low-carb canned. Here is listing of them
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=94685
When you change the insulin dose will likely need to be decreased.
 
Hi sugarkitty Rhea and welcome to the message board. Would you introduce your bean (human being) to us?

No, the numbers are no more accurate expressed in either format. Those expressed in mmol/L are for international users. The numbers expressed in mg/dL are only used in the backwards US of A. We know that we can multiply by 18 to express your numbers in a format more easily understood by those of us in the US. No need to look for a different meter.

The Friskies Turkey & Giblet pate you switched your kitty to is a good low carb option. Many of us here use the Friskies pates, Fancy Feast pates or Wellness grain free foods for our diabetic kitties.

Here are some ear testing tips to help you. I think the 2 key things are to warm up the ear first and always give a treat. We suggest 3 attempts at poking the ear and then give a low carb pure protein treat as a reward, successful test or not. It takes time to become proficient at the home testing.
 
Decreasing the carbohydrates can result in a drop of 100 mg/dL in the glucose level.

Stress at the vet's office can increase the glucose from 100 to 180 mg/dL.

That initial BG of 230mg/dL might have been explained by those 2 factors alone.

Get tests between +5 to +7 as often as you can; you could be giving too high a dose.
 
Thanks so much for the replies. The ear testing tips are all great! It does get easier each time.
 
Just an other update. Tonight's testing went beautifully. I followed some of the tips posted and they definitely worked!
Our pre needle number was 5.8.
My next question is - is there a handy guide to what our numbers should be at different times during the cycle? I read to aim for 5.5 - 10 at all times, is that the general rule?
 
So glad to hear some of those testing tips are making it easier to test your kitty Rhea. Bribes :shock: :eek: :shock: are always a top recommendation as well as warming the ear first.

Which insulin are you using? I see you said Lantus.
What meter are you using for testing?
What the numbers should be depends a bit on the insulin you are using and the type of meter.

BJM has a nice writeup on what the various numbers mean. Listed for both human meters and pet meters, and values for the US and for international.

Here it is, copied from another post.

[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


How to use the glucose reference values chart:

When you get a test, look for the number on the chart that either equals, or contains, the test value you have. Read the information. As needed, make a decision and act.

Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.

Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.

Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)[/quote]

Sounds like you don't live in the US with that number you gave us. I'm guessing maybe Canada?

What is your name? You introduced your sugarkitty girl Rhea to us, but not yourself. We sure would like to know you first name if you would share that with us.

I'm Deb and that gorgeous tuxedo pictured on the right is my sugardude Wink. Hi from both of us.
 
Hello and welcome from someone else who uses the mmol/L numbers. As other mentioned, just multiply your number by 18 to get the same values others use.

One important thing when you are starting out, do not give insulin if Rhea is less than 11.0 (200). Normal non diabetic kitty numbers are 2.8 to 6.6 (50-120). Any preshot test of 11.0 or lower is too low to give insulin when you are first starting out.

The following is an example of an typical Lantus cycle.
Example of an active Lantus cycle:

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.
Click to expand...

However, many cats are not "typical" so the nadir can be earlier or later. This just gives you a general idea of what it looks like.
 
Gosh, you guys are so helpful!
By the way, my name is Brenda, and yes, we're from Canada.
I'm not sure what else to say :smile:
Sometimes this diabetes thing can be overwhelming, but all of you on this board have been SUPER helpful.
Thanks! :-D
 
Hi Brenda! Thanks for the intro, really appreciate it.

What meter are you using is the last question I think you missed.

Yes, we know how stressful and overwhelming this diabetes diagnosis can be. The good thing is, you've found this board. We not only give great suggestions and tips, but emotional support and a shoulder to cry on too.
 
Hello from another Canadian!

You are doing all the right things. However I would be inclined to move him back to free feeding as it doesn't stress the pancreas as much.

Can you get some more blood tests? I worry she may be heading toward remission with a diet change and is dropping too low. the 1.5 units may also be too much

Also I usually recommend 3-4 tests a day

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low the cat’s blood sugar is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want the cat dropping too low (under 50).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what the cat's overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle

Wendy

PS if you are close to the border you might want to pop to the US walmart and pick up a relion confirm or micro meters - much cheaper for strips!
 
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