New Thread re: Desi

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Korynn

Korynn

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Oh, re: the skipping, I thought you meant "forgetting a shot" for some odd reason. You are right, we did intentionally skip the night of 4/21. Thanks for the feedback, as always!
 
Mark and I are thinking about the 10/14 - his numbers are almost always so much higher in the mornings. I'm not sure why we would wait to try it. Maybe we will test at +13 and then decide whether to test again at +14. Hmm. I just don't know.
 
Korynn, do you think you could possibly grab a mid cycle test one night? His morning numbers are somewhat unpredictable. It makes me wonder what's going on at night.
 
Rachel said:
Korynn, do you think you could possibly grab a mid cycle test one night? His morning numbers are somewhat unpredictable. It makes me wonder what's going on at night.
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Sure. He does nothing but sleep (on me! so I know - cuz the dog is also with me and Mark so it's a full bed!) at night! It seems like his metabolism is such that he goes through the insulin faster at night for some reason. He's almost always high in the morning (ha) - higher than at the PMPS, anyway. There is only a single case in which his PMPS number was lower than his AMPS.
 
Glad he's doing well Korynn. Loved the pic of him and his sis! Many cats seem to go lower at night for some reason. I was wondering if he was going lower and bouncing for AMPS? Maybe some night tests will give us the answer.
 
You might try feeding a slightly higher carb level at night to see if you can balance the numbers a bit that way.

Or, you might consider doing a slightly lower dose at night vs the morning dose - ProZinc can work fine that way, as well as on a sliding scale.
 
BJM said:
You might try feeding a slightly higher carb level at night to see if you can balance the numbers a bit that way.

Or, you might consider doing a slightly lower dose at night vs the morning dose - ProZinc can work fine that way, as well as on a sliding scale.
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BMJ, is this assuming we are feeding him after the PMPS or before? Because wouldn't the carbs raise his BG? We usually test him before feeding him in the evening.

And if we gave him a lower dose at night, wouldn't his numbers be even higher in the morning?


 
Sorry - I though you indicated he goes lower at night.
If its the other way around, you can slightly increase the carbs in the morning, and again, shoot on a 12 and 12 schedule.
Or, shoot less in the morning - ex the 0.3 - and slightly more at night - 0.4.

Or maybe a combination of both.
 
Hmmmm. . Are you getting shootable pmps at regular times or +13? Are your pink amps numbers at +11?

As BJ says, you can give different doses - 0.3 on yellow preshots and 0.4 on pink.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Hmmmm. . Are you getting shootable pmps at regular times or +13? Are your pink amps numbers at +11?

As BJ says, you can give different doses - 0.3 on yellow preshots and 0.4 on pink.
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Yes and yes. We are getting shootable pmps at +13 AND pink amps at +11.
The numbers seem to be climbing to me! Ugh.
Sometimes I think we should have started with 0.5 which I read somewhere on here was recommended. I think starting at 2.0 really shocked his system and we still haven't found a pattern.
 
Good call on skipping! We say "Better too high for a day, than too low for a moment!"

In the morning, give less than you normally do for the pre-shot level you get, so that you can (we hope!) shoot something in the evening too.
If 0.3 drops the glucose 300+ mg/dL (ex 04/24/2016) by +8, that suggests that 0.1 units might drop 100 mg/dL (an estimate!) and/or that the nadir in your cat tends to be later. When you can (weekend, maybe?), get some tests in the +5 to +8 period to see if you can determine when he's likely to hit his nadir.
 
I know this has been pretty stressful, Korynn, but remember this is good news! The lower numbers are stressful (who would have though that!) because we just don't know how to handle them. BUT...we're working with you and you're not alone here! The lower numbers mean he is feeling better...and they mean that hopefully he'll eventually get OTJ!
 
Robin&BB said:
Hi, Korynn:) - How is Desi doing tonight?
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He seems good. Just sitting on some clean clothes from the dryer (his fave). I think he wants dinner but we need to test his blood at 8:30 (PST). His numbers were so low today...we just never know!
 
Even if he's over 200, my gut is saying you may want to reduce that dose a bit. Here's why: He was too low to shoot last night, then high this morning.
That tells me two things: He's probably bouncing and the dose is probably still a bit too high. Which syringes are you using (sorry, I've forgotten) - are they U40s or U100s?
 
Robin&BB said:
Even if he's over 200, my gut is saying you may want to reduce that dose a bit. Here's why: He was too low to shoot last night, then high this morning.
That tells me two things: He's probably bouncing and the dose is probably still a bit too high. Which syringes are you using (sorry, I've forgotten) - are they U40s or U100s?
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201
Yes, we use the U100s now.
So how much do you reckon?
 
IF he makes it to about 200, I would prefer to see you shoot only 0.2U tonight. (So just half of what he got this morning.)

And would hope you could set an alarm and try for a mid-cycle test tonight. (If at all possible?)

ETA: Just noticed that "201" in your post above. (Goin' blind here:rolleyes:)
 
Robin&BB said:
IF he makes it to about 200, I would prefer to see you shoot only 0.2U tonight. (So just half of what he got this morning.)

And would hope you could set an alarm and try for a mid-cycle test tonight. (If at all possible?)

ETA: Just noticed that "201" in your post above. (Goin' blind here:rolleyes:)
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Definitely can do the 0.2 but the mid-cycle test is harder to guarantee. I am horrible in the middle of the night in terms of functioning and need my sleep for work, but I could definitely commit to this over the weekend. (He sleeps on me, you'd think it would be easy but there is also my husband and our dog in the bed...it would not be fun.) If I happen to wake up to pee, I'll see what I can do.
Can you remind me what exactly bouncing is? Is it describing the big swings between reading? Or is it going up and down and up and down?
 
Korynn, did you see my above post on redux of the dose? Ha, We cross-posted. Will post separately on bouncing ...
 
Bouncing occurs when the cat’s body perceives a drop that is below what has been occurring and releases extra glucose, resulting in an “artificial” rise in numbers. (See how low he dropped on today's cycle? Down to 70 at +9 after an AMPS of 427. That deep a drop kind of sets him up for a bounce - and I think he's been bouncing around already).

It can take several cycles or so for a bounce to clear. Not at all uncommon. @Sue and Oliver (GA) - Sue wisely tells ProZincers: "Cats can bounce ... until they don't.";)
 
Robin&BB said:
Bouncing occurs when the cat’s body perceives a drop that is below what has been occurring and releases extra glucose, resulting in an “artificial” rise in numbers. (See how low he dropped on today's cycle? Down to 70 at +9 after an AMPS of 427. That deep a drop kind of sets him up for a bounce - and I think he's been bouncing around already).

It can take several cycles or so for a bounce to clear. Not at all uncommon. @Sue and Oliver (GA) - Sue wisely tells ProZincers: "Cats can bounce ... until they don't.";)
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I don't know why this concept is difficult for me to grasp but I think I have it. So when he goes low sometimes, his body reacts by releasing more glucose...and this is why his numbers seem to be going up at times, but really he's not overall? I would have to run a curve (or whatever that term is) or test more frequently to catch this?
 
Korynn said:
So when he goes low sometimes, his body reacts by releasing more glucose...
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Yep, that's right.
Korynn said:
and this is why his numbers seem to be going up at times, but really he's not overall? I would have to run a curve (or whatever that term is) or test more frequently to catch this?
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Well, it's always nice to run a curve every now and then anyway; helps you see more clearly how his body is processing the insulin throughout a cycle. (Although keep in mind, nothing is ever really "static" - things can change from cycle to cycle. But what you're always looking for is the general patterns, and these can really help with dosing decisions.)

As for Desi's bouncing, from what I'm seeing when I look at his SS, I'd guess that he's been on the bounce for (possibly) the past week. What we're going for here are two shootable pre-shot #s, both morning & night. He wasn't shootable on the night of the 21st, nor last night. That's why I'm thinking the dose may be a little too high.

So am glad you did the redux tonight. We might want to try holding that little dose for a couple more cycles after this to see how he does.:)
 
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you above ... had to pause & test, then steer Bat's BG upward with a little food. (She's great at "cliff-diving!":rolleyes:)
 
Robin&BB said:
Yep, that's right. Well, it's always nice to run a curve every now and then anyway; helps you see more clearly how his body is processing the insulin throughout a cycle. (Although keep in mind, nothing is ever really "static" - things can change from cycle to cycle. But what you're always looking for is the general patterns, and these can really help with dosing decisions.)

As for Desi's bouncing, from what I'm seeing when I look at his SS, I'd guess that he's been on the bounce for (possibly) the past week. What we're going for here are two shootable pre-shot #s, both morning & night. He wasn't shootable on the night of the 21st, nor last night. That's why I'm thinking the dose may be a little too high.

So am glad you did the redux tonight. We might want to try holding that little dose for a couple more cycles after this to see how he does.:)
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Also, we changed from 12/12 to 11/13 and then to 10/14 - should we switch back to 11/13? Or...what do you think? We were trying to get the two shootable numbers by switching but it's not working.
 
OK (about giving him a tiny dose).

As far as which schedule suits us - any of those (12/12, 11/13, 10/14) are do-able for us. So it doesn't matter to us. It's whatever is best for Desi.
 
Might want to go back to 11/13, for now. (Is not a good idea, for example, to jump from 10/14 all the way back to a 12/12. Better to shift slower, for safety's sake.)
 
Basically - unless your kitty's in danger of a hypo - is better to make changes gradually rather than too quickly. (Gives the body time to adjust; also makes it easier to sort out which thing is working and which thing isn't.;))
 
Robin, are you still awake (where are you, anyway?!)? Look at the numbers today! You were right! At least it seems like it so far. We are going to give 0.2 tonight. I hope that's an OK call.
 
Yes, I'm up! (In AZ, so on California time; we don't do daylight savings time here). Am taking a peek at SS now ...
 
Hmmm...I think the mid cycle test will actually help us decide. That will tell us what Desi is doing overnight so we can see if an increase is warranted or not. :)
 
Rachel said:
Hmmm...I think the mid cycle test will actually help us decide. That will tell us what Desi is doing overnight so we can see if an increase is warranted or not. :)
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OK, I'll do one before we go to bed and then one a few hours later...I hope! :)
 
Sorry, I missed you, Korynn - but Rachel's advice here is spot-on.;) @Rachel - I may not be around much tonight; had to see doc about my right hand. Turns out I have a (spreading) staph infection in 3 fingers o_O (no clue how I got it, as I wash my hands ALL the time:confused:), but had 2 shots & taking oral antibiotics for it now, too. Am feeling a bit puny. Hope you can maybe be around tonight?
 
Robin&BB said:
Sorry, I missed you, Korynn - but Rachel's advice here is spot-on.;) @Rachel - I may not be around much tonight; had to see doc about my right hand. Turns out I have a (spreading) staph infection in 3 fingers o_O (no clue how I got it, as I wash my hands ALL the time:confused:), but had 2 shots & taking oral antibiotics for it now, too. Am feeling a bit puny. Hope you can maybe be around tonight?
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Oh, Robin, I hope the antibiotics work fast! I will be around tonight.
 
I will try to be around too! Some pretty severe storms are passing through, so if power goes...I'll probably be off for the night. Hoping it stays on!

Glad Sue will be around!

Get some rest Robin!
 
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