New symptom?

[Jessica + Bo]

Bo has been exhibiting some new and semi-new symptoms and I'm just not sure if I should be concerned or what adjustments to make.

Bos diet for the past few weeks has been 1 can Purina dm for breakfast and 1 can FF pate for dinner.

On November 8th I added Dr elseys clean protein chicken flavor dry food to Bo's s diet as a crunchy treat. He gets about 2 tbsp free-fed per day, but normally only eats about 1 tbsp of it per day.

On November 10th he threw up about 10 minutes before AMPS, and he had diarrhea. I noticed it in his litterbox. It's the first time I ever noticed him having it.

On November 12th we stopped the purina dm for breakfast. So his new diet is 1 can FF for breakfast, 1 can FF for dinner and the 2 tbsp of Dr elseys. (I'm considering giving 1/2 can for lunch as well)

This morning, November 13th. He had diarrhea again. I noticed because he was sitting on the floor cleaning himself and when he got up there was a big liquid smudge of poop on the floor.

He has been a little antsy/stressed the last few days. I wish I noted when it started but if I had to guess, I would say since November 9th?

He has been wandering the apartment meowing loudly and deeply. Getting crazy zoomies and puffing up at any sound.

That behavior isn't too unusual for him, he always had his days where he was on edge or over excited. But he hasn't really done it since his diagnoses up until this point.


Life got a bit crazy a few days ago and I fell off from giving insulin and doing as much testing. But once everything settled and i was ready to start giving insulin again, i noticed his numbers were doing relatively fine, and he had developed this weird antsy behavior. So I was nervous to dose him out of fear that I was getting false highs from him being stressed. Especially since his nadirs that I have gotten recently have been really good without insulin.

I'm just wondering is this antsy/stressed behavior can be chalked up to him being a cat? And has anybody experienced diarrhea with their sugar kitties? I was afraid about DKA but he's eating and peeing fine and his BG has been in normal ranges.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Jessica -

My first thought was that the diarrhea was from the Dr. Elseys. I'd eliminate it and see if things go back to normal.

I also think Bo needs insulin. His numbers are not consistently in normal range. You're also not testing at night to know what's going on.

 

[Snickers and Chrissy]

Although I'm not an expert on dosing, my cat has a sensitive stomach and food allergies, so I know quite a bit about that. I agree with Sienne that the Dr. Elsey's could be the culprit. Only because it was recently introduced. Any new food has the potential to cause stomach upset. I would take it away and see if the problem clears up in a day or two. That's just my opinion, of course, but it could just be that simple.

 

[Jessica + Bo]

I let him finish what I gave him with breakfast (about 1 tbsp) but won't give any more for the next few days to see if his new symptoms clear up.

About the insulin. I haven't had time to do midday or night time tests. I've been struggling just to get the pre-meal tests these last few days. I haven't given up on giving him insulin yet, but honestly i have put insulin on the back burner for now with his relatively good numbers and my lack of time/capacity. I took a lot of sick leave in the last few weeks just to get the hang of everything and try to get him regulated. I just can't take much more time off right now.

Are there other things I can do or try in the meantime?

 

[Basic's Mom]

Bo has been exhibiting some new and semi-new symptoms and I'm just not sure if I should be concerned or what adjustments to make.

Bos diet for the past few weeks has been 1 can Purina dm for breakfast and 1 can FF pate for dinner.

On November 8th I added Dr elseys clean protein chicken flavor dry food to Bo's s diet as a crunchy treat. He gets about 2 tbsp free-fed per day, but normally only eats about 1 tbsp of it per day.

On November 10th he threw up about 10 minutes before AMPS, and he had diarrhea. I noticed it in his litterbox. It's the first time I ever noticed him having it.

On November 12th we stopped the purina dm for breakfast. So his new diet is 1 can FF for breakfast, 1 can FF for dinner and the 2 tbsp of Dr elseys. (I'm considering giving 1/2 can for lunch as well)

This morning, November 13th. He had diarrhea again. I noticed because he was sitting on the floor cleaning himself and when he got up there was a big liquid smudge of poop on the floor.

He has been a little antsy/stressed the last few days. I wish I noted when it started but if I had to guess, I would say since November 9th?

He has been wandering the apartment meowing loudly and deeply. Getting crazy zoomies and puffing up at any sound.

That behavior isn't too unusual for him, he always had his days where he was on edge or over excited. But he hasn't really done it since his diagnoses up until this point.


Life got a bit crazy a few days ago and I fell off from giving insulin and doing as much testing. But once everything settled and i was ready to start giving insulin again, i noticed his numbers were doing relatively fine, and he had developed this weird antsy behavior. So I was nervous to dose him out of fear that I was getting false highs from him being stressed. Especially since his nadirs that I have gotten recently have been really good without insulin.

I'm just wondering is this antsy/stressed behavior can be chalked up to him being a cat? And has anybody experienced diarrhea with their sugar kitties? I was afraid about DKA but he's eating and peeing fine and his BG has been in normal ranges.

I have $100 worth of Dr. Elsey’s and have to stop giving it to my cats. They have both displayed the symptoms you have listed since starting this food. It isn't constant, but it is too much for my liking.

I wanted to share this with you. Scroll to post #13 and read the attached links.

https://thecatsite.com/threads/dr-elseys-formula-change.459062/

I contacted Dr. Elsey's to see if with all the complaints about the new formula if they were considering returning to the old formula and they said no. I'm afraid the explanation giving on that post could be tied to all these issues in cats. For the price, the food shouldn't be causing these type of GI issues and sending people to the vets to have their cats checked out. (I'm not saying don't take your cat to the vet either.)

I'm sorry it didn't agree with your cat.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Are there other things I can do or try in the meantime?

Eliminate all dry food. That could help. I also (as you already know from previous chats) don’t think he’s ready to go completely off insulin; however, if you have made up your mind to not give insulin for the time being, please keep trying to get those a.m. and p.m. tests so that you will be aware if his numbers start to creep up.

 

[Jessica + Bo]

I have $100 worth of Dr. Elsey’s and have to stop giving it to my cats. They have both displayed the symptoms you have listed since starting this food. It isn't constant, but it is too much for my liking.

I wanted to share this with you. Scroll to post #13 and read the attached links.

https://thecatsite.com/threads/dr-elseys-formula-change.459062/

I contacted Dr. Elsey's to see if with all the complaints about the new formula if they were considering returning to the old formula and they said no. I'm afraid the explanation giving on that post could be tied to all these issues in cats. For the price, the food shouldn't be having these type of GI issues and sending people to the vets to have their cats checked out. (I'm not saying don't take your cat to the vet either.)

I'm sorry it didn't agree with your cat.

I was afraid it was the Dr Elseys

Hopefully his symptoms clear up soon now that I've stopped it. Do you know if its only the Chicken flavor, or is the Salmon has the same issue? They're both very low in carbs, so I'm wondering if its worth it to give the Salmon flavor a try.

EDIT: I checked the site, Salmon has the same issue.

Eliminate all dry food.

I think I need more understanding on this. I thought it was just because there are so few low carb dry foods. Bur there are a few less than 10% carb options. And he would only be getting a tiny bit, so he will still be getting a lot of moisture from the wet food. Other than carbs and moisture, is there another reason we should be avoiding dry? I just want to make sure I understand it before I go on another hunt.

I'm mostly concerned for his teeth. I understand the dry kibble is great for their teeth, and I've still had no luck finding low carb "crunchies" that he will eat. I can only find freeze dried meats where I live, and he wont touch them. So I was hoping that adding a little low carb kibble would help his teeth stay plaque free.

Do people here do anything in particular to keep their kitties teeth healthy on an all wet/soft diet?

 

[Basic's Mom]

I was afraid it was the Dr Elseys

Hopefully his symptoms clear up soon now that I've stopped it. Do you know if its only the Chicken flavor, or is the Salmon has the same issue? They're both very low in carbs, so I'm wondering if its worth it to give the Salmon flavor a try.

I have both and my cats have had both, the chicken and salmon. He pukes after the salmon. She pukes with the chicken and they both have the sludge like poop. It isn't quite diarrhea. I think sludge describes it the best. They don't act sick, but it really concerns me thst they are both having these reactions.

I am getting ready to start raw with them as soon as I have some answers about some things. I'm very hopeful the transition goes smoothly. I tried removing the kibble completely for 3 weeks when he was first diagnosed. He would go on a food strike every time for 24 hours. I'm just simply doing what I can and remaining hopeful. He loved a very small piece of raw venison I gave him today. I am hopeful his sister will also adjust. She loves kibble and I can't risk hc kibble being in the house anymore. And at least one other lc kibble causes these same reactions in some cats.

My cats also hate freeze dried treats.

 

[Jessica + Bo]

I am getting ready to start raw with them as soon as I have some answers about some things. I'm very hopeful the transition goes smoothly. I tried removing the kibble completely for 3 weeks when he was first diagnosed. He would go on a food strike every time for 24 hours. I'm just simply doing what I can and remaining hopeful. He loved a very small piece of raw venison I gave him today. I am hopeful his sister will also adjust. She loves kibble and I can't risk hc kibble being in the house anymore. And at least one other lc kibble causes these same reactions in some cats.

My cats also hate freeze dried treats.

Raw would be a big commitment but it feels like such a healthy option if your cats enjoy it. Much closer to what they would be eating in the wild.

I tried raw with mine but he went on a food strike. And with raw it's not like you can leave it out all day until they give in. That was a few years ago though, so maybe I'll give it another try.

And I don't even want to think about the number of low carb freeze dried treats I've bought that he wont touch. I'm going to start a "diabetic cat treats sample pack" business

 

[Basic's Mom]

Raw would be a big commitment but it feels like such a healthy option if your cats enjoy it. Much closer to what they would be eating in the wild.

I tried raw with mine but he went on a food strike. And with raw it's not like you can leave it out all day until they give in. That was a few years ago though, so maybe I'll give it another try.

And I don't even want to think about the number of low carb freeze dried treats I've bought that he wont touch. I'm going to start a "diabetic cat treats sample pack" business

I was laughing as I was typing to you. I truly believe I would only go to these great links for a cat. Nothing else.

With this product, https://www.foodfurlife.com/store/p4/EZComplete_Fur_Cats_450g_-_Makes_24.2_lbs_of_food.html#/, it made me feel much less intimated by going raw.

Also, try different proteins. I've been warned not to start with the most expensive because that is what they will insist on eating. I know my cats would definitely be that way. I also have venison in my freezer usually.

Here is a thread about switching to raw for our seniors. You may know all of this already, but here it is in case you don't or someone searching finds this.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/raw-feeding-senior-kitties.248460/

 

[Basic's Mom]

Start that business. I would've hit you up for sure. Look at all the foods/treats we've been through. I swear, my guy laughs at me when I try to give him the most expensive can food. I shake my head as I grab a bag of $12 freeze dried treats KNOWING he won't touch them. We can say we've given it all for sure.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I'm mostly concerned for his teeth. I understand the dry kibble is great for their teeth

Funnily enough, my dentist doesn't agree with biscotti are great for my teeth argument. There is a prescription dry food (very high carb) that is designed to help a cat's teeth, but most dry foods do not help clean teeth. Most dry food are so small that cat pretty much just eat them whole and don't need to use their teeth to eat them. In the wild, cats clean their teeth by shearing meat off the bone. Neko used to occasionally get lightly cooked chicken gizzards to chew to clean her teeth. Larger chunks of meat can do the same thing. Longer term, it is better for a cats health to encourage drinking of water - which wet food gives them.

 

[Jessica + Bo]

I just wanted to update you all that it looks like it was the Dr Elseys! I took him off of it the same day and he has had no more diarrhea, and his antsy behavior seems to have subsided quite a bit. Luckily I bought it at PetSmart and they accepted it as a return once I said it made my cat sick. So at least it wasn't $$$ down the drain.

 

[Jessica + Bo]

Funnily enough, my dentist doesn't agree with biscotti are great for my teeth argument. There is a prescription dry food (very high carb) that is designed to help a cat's teeth, but most dry foods do not help clean teeth. Most dry food are so small that cat pretty much just eat them whole and don't need to use their teeth to eat them. In the wild, cats clean their teeth by shearing meat off the bone. Neko used to occasionally get lightly cooked chicken gizzards to chew to clean her teeth. Larger chunks of meat can do the same thing. Longer term, it is better for a cats health to encourage drinking of water - which wet food gives them.

Thanks for the advice, I have also started adding some water to his wet food to give him a bit more hydration since reading your message. I've tried giving him meat before but he was disinterested. But I'm going to try to keep offering different kinds of meat until we exhaust the whole list, or find some he'll eat.

He has always had great teeth, the vets always have a little surprise to their voice when they check his mouth and say "his teeth are really good for his age". So here's to hoping we don't run into any dental issues with the diet changes.

 

[Basic's Mom]

That is great the problem ended for Bo (and you) and that you got your money back.

My cats have stopped having the issues. I am not really giving my diabetic cat much at all, maybe 10 pellets and he isn’t protesting or going on food strikes. My nondiabetic cat is much smaller. I was most worried about her becasue she was having much more of a reaction. I only give her 10 pellets at a time now and I only do this two or three times a day. I was giving them both a ¼ C all at once in the morning. She isn't protesting either and she was more of a kibble fanatic than her brother.

I'm giving the majority of the Dr. Elsey's to my mom for her cat. I had her start him awhile ago and he has had zero issues. I'm not sure all cats will have the reaction our did from it, but there are definitely thousands of cats that are.

I am just hopeful switching to raw goes well. I'm still waiting on my EZ complete. I got an incredible message from an employee there in great length about how long one should give their animals to adjust to this diet or any diet change. She also told me it took her senior cats just over 9 months to make the transition. I wanted to share that with you because we were discussing the issue with trying to introduce something new in their diet. The message also stated that if there are any GI issues, to back off on the amount of food, which is kind of what I had already resolved about the Dr. Elsey's.