New sugar cat

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Laura13

Laura13

Member Since 2014
Hi everyone

I am new here, my cat has was diagnosed with diabetes 3 weeks ago. This is a very new and daunting journey for us. My boy is not even 2 yet so hopefully we will have him for a long time to come.

I am hoping to connect with other people to share stories and advice. We have a lot to learn and instead of being scared I want to be prepared!
 
Welcome to the FDMB!!

You're in the best place you could be to learn everything there is to know about the "sugardance", and we'll be happy to help you any way we can!

First, we'll need to find out some information about your sugarcat though. I'm assuming your name is Laura? Or is that your kitty?

What are you feeding? It's important that you find wet foods that are less than 10% carbs. Here's a Food Chart with pretty much every kind of food available listed, and the percentage of carbs (Column C)

Are you giving insulin yet? If so, what kind? Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc are the only insulins that work well in cats.

It's very important that you learn to home test your kitty's blood glucose at home. We wouldn't give our young children insulin without knowing what their blood glucose was first, and it's the same for our furkids. It can sound scary, and everyone thinks they can't do it at first, and soon, they're all testing like pros.

Here's a shopping list of things you'll need (Human glucometers are fine..You don't need a "pet specific" meter, and the strips are extremely expensive)

1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro. (about $15 at WalMart)
2. Matching strips (about $18 for 50)
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool. (about $6)
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high (about $8)
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Ask questions as you think of them! We're all here to help you and look forward to helping you with your sugarcat!
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB.

Receiving a diagnosis that your cat is diabetic can be scary and overwhelming. However, Feline Diabetes is something you can easily manage. With proper diet, hometesting and insulin, you can manage your cats glucose levels and can have many more years with your sugar baby.

Chris has already given you some great advice for what you will need for hometesting. For food, look on the list. You do not need to feed your cat prescription food if your vet has prescribed it. Most of it is not good for diabetic cats anyway. Many of us feed our cats Fancy Feast, Friskies or Special Kitty brand foods. You want to feed pate flavors instead of anything with gravy. These will be your lower carb foods.

Start reading the posts and information on this site. Some of the things you want to read about are insulin, diet, hometesting and also hypoglycemia. If you have any questions, please ask them. You have a lot of experience on this board and we are here to help you.
 
Welcome, your kitty looks like Dusty's twin! What's his/her name? Have you started insulin yet and what kind of food are you feeding your kitty? Lots of info here to absorb but it'll all become second nature before you know it. :razz:
 
Welcome!

2 years old at diagnosis is quite young. Usually, when they're diagnosed at such a young age, they might have something else going on to cause those high numbers, like an infection or steroid use. The good thing is that this means there's a much higher chance of remission. Is there anything else going on? Any co-morbid problems?
 
Hi everyone, thank you for your replies!

Looks like I have some research to do, especially since I live in Australia and I don't know what is available here. So far I've been to two different chemists for syringes and neither of them had what I wanted.

My cat's name is Rupert, he is a Manx and a total cutie boy. He is so loyal and affectionate and a real chatterbox. He'd lost weight (30% of his body weight, he was very underweight!) and was throwing up once or twice a week which made us think maybe there was something wrong. He's had blood tests, urine test and an ultrasound with the outcome of primary diabetes. We've been told he will have this for the rest of his life.

We're feeding him Hill's Science Diet m/d wet food and a little bit of dry food occasionally. We have Fancy Feast available here so I'll look into that too, I know it'd be a lot cheaper than m/d! He is ALWAYS hungry. How often do you feed your cats? I'm not working at the moment so I'm always home and whenever I go in the kitchen he is there wanting food.

We have a total of 4 cats currently, feeding time gets manic! Our other cat is Sophie, she is 3 and a calico domestic short hair. We also foster kittens and cats and have 2 kittens at the moment who are getting adopted tomorrow.

Rupert is at the vet today for a blood glucose curve. When I pick him up I'll ask about checking his levels at home. He is on Lantus insulin, 2 units morning and night. He lets out a sad little meow sometimes! Poor boy.

Well I think that is everything. I love Rupert, he means the world to me, but I am so glad he is out today because it means I can have breakfast without him trying to steal it from me!
 
For syringes:, you want
U-100 (means the insulin has 100 units in 1 mL) insulin syringes
3/10 mL ( or cc, its the same thing)
With half unit markings.
 
Nice to meet you Laura and sugardude Rupert!

First of all, you can take back the M/D and get your money back. It's too high in carbs. Just say your cat won't eat it. There are also no good dry foods, so if you can get everyone eating the Fancy Feast Classics (Pate's) you'll be taking a big step toward helping Rupert control his blood glucose. It's very important if you're already giving insulin, that you change over to a lower carb food gradually! The right food can bring the numbers down 100 points or more, so it's important that you don't just switch over to low carb quickly while giving the same amount of insulin.

It's great that you're on Lantus. It's an excellent insulin!! The one problem there is that you probably have started out on too high of a dose. We usually start at .5 to 1 unit, every 12 hours. Giving too much insulin can cause high numbers, just like too little can, so it's important to start low, and slowly increase. We increase the dose in .25 unit increments.

Yes, it's important for you to try to find some syringes that have 1/2 unit markings. I don't know what's available there, but it's really important that you find some if at all possible. Maybe online?? BJM posted the best kind to get if you can find them.

A lot of vets don't know about home testing, or the protocol we use here, but the Tight Regulation protocol was developed at the University of Queensland (among others) and modified here for what hundreds (or thousands) of cats have done well on. If your vet doesn't know about it, maybe you could share the Roomp/Rand Tight Regulation Protocol with him. The TR protocol has been shown to be able to get up to 84% of newly diagnosed cats off insulin completely within 6 months, so it's a very successful way to go.

When you get the results from your vet, we'd love for you to start a spreadsheet and put the test results in. Once you're home testing, you won't ever need to have another curve done at the vets, so it'll save you money as well as help you treat Rupert better by knowing how he reacts to insulin at home. Here's How to get your spreadsheet and link in your signature

Please don't be overwhelmed! There's a lot of information we're going to throw at you, so if we're going too fast, don't be afraid to say "Slow down!". The "stickies" at the top of the page have a lot of good information to read over.

Again, welcome! Ask questions, read others posts (which will help a lot) and we'll be happy to help you to help Rupert have the healthiest life possible!
 
An update on Rupert. His curve showed high levels. I have no idea how they are read here compared to America but I'm thinking they're different since I don't recognise anything I've read here. The lowest result was 18 and highest about 23 I think. High levels. We upped his morning insulin to 3 units for a week and went back to the vet for another reading a week later. That came out as 23 I think. Still really high. So he now gets 3 units morning and night. I will call the vet on Thursday with an update on how he's been going and I think we'll be back again next week to check his levels again. The vet tried to show me how to check his levels but he wasn't cooperating so she just did it herself before he got too upset.

He is a very lively boy and will not put up with anything he doesn't like! I'm thinking about getting a Thundershirt for him so we can check his levels at home without stressing him so much.

I am feeling very overwhelmed by it all, like we're fighting a losing battle. I am just impatient for his levels to be ok.
 
Hi Laura,

Folks in the US measure blood glucose differently to those in rest of the world. To convert 'rest of the world' numbers to US numbers we multiply by 18, and vice versa.

A diagnosis of FD can feel overwhelming at first. It can seem like a steep learning curve. But you will very soon get the hang of things. Honestly!

Welcome to FDMB. :smile:

Eliz
 
Hi again Laura and extra sweet Rupert!

First, since you're in Australia, the numbers are just in a different scale than the majority of us use. (They keep telling us the US is going metric, but we're still waiting!) For you, if you take our numbers (like normal is 50-120) and divide by 18, you'll see that in mmol terms, normal is 2.8-6.8

At the bottom of this post you'll find a chart with various levels and what they mean. Just find the number you get on your meter, and see where it lands on that chart. From the numbers you've given us, Rupert isn't doing well as far as getting him controlled yet. Your 18 is our 324 and your 23 is our 414...both numbers are too high!

Have you switched Rupert over to the low carb foods or are you still feeding the Science Diet M/D and some dry? You can't get good results if you are still feeding higher carb foods. It's like trying to put a fire out by dumping gasoline on it. It just doesn't work.

It would be BEST for Rupert if you'd learn to test at home! Even the worst tempered cats can learn to accept it, and some even end up liking it! Tests done at the vets office are not going to be accurate due to stress. Stress can raise the blood glucose up to 200 points! (11.1) We can help you learn how if you'll be willing to try it.

Next thing is that I notice you're increasing in whole unit increments. This can be dangerous, as well as ineffective. Doses of Lantus should be changed in .25 increments, never whole units. It's quite possible that Rupert is getting TOO MUCH insulin instead of not enough. Too much can cause high numbers, just like too little can, and the only way to know for sure is to start low and go SLOWLY up, testing at least 4 times a day to see how each dose is working. Giving too much can also lead to the cat becoming resistant to insulin so you have to use much higher doses to get any improvements.

If you're willing to try the protocol we use here (that's been proven to get up to 84% of cats into remission within 6 months) we'd be happy to teach it to you, but it does require home testing at least 4 times a day (although more is better)d

At such a young age, I'd think he'd have an excellent chance of becoming diet controlled, unless he also has one of the high dose conditions like acromegaly or insulin resistance.

Here's the chart I told you about:

[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]

We'd love to help you get Rupert under better control!
 
Just a word of advice on the food. I know many people are against the prescribed Hill's M/D..but it is designed specifically for your diabetic cat's needs. I have done extensive looking into these foods as I was advised to use low end foods such as Fancy Feast, Friskies, etc....You should really consult with your vet about this and NOT change foods without your vet's recommendation. Most vets will tell you to stay away from Fancy Feast as they have extremely high phosphorus and fat, which will only increase your cat's chances of other diabetic related issues such as kidney disease. Low carb is the way to go, but the other nutrients are equally important. prescribed diabetic foods such as Hill's M/D and Royal Canin are designed specifically for diabetic felines. It is a very good food. I was confused as anything when all I kept hearing was use Fancy Feast, etc. I have checked with not only my two vets and feline nutritionist, but many other vets and have read and called manufacturers. To treat your cat with only the focus on remission is not the best way to go, many of these diabetic cats wind up with other issues due to an improperly based diet that reeks havoc on the kidneys. I have been feeding my two diabetic cats the M/D and they both are doing very well. Their numbers have continued to decrease and their overall health is much better than it was. Neither one of them have any other diabetic related issues. These foods are a bit more expensive, but much better for your cat's overall health. I personally would rather pay more for their food and avoid further unnecessary harm to them, than to try to save money and feed a low carb only diet and have more health problems later.
I am NOT a vet and just wish to convey to you what I have been told by licensed vets and nutritionists, manufacturers of food, etc.

As far as the ProZinc...just double check with your vet. Mine started on 1 unit and it was adjusted form there. However, not all areas use the same syringes and it is possible that the units are smaller.

I wasn't home testing at first, it was all too new to me. I am now, and it is better for accuracy. One of my cats is so stressed at the vet his numbers were 100+ higher than at home! Now I home test and do a complete BG Curve every other week at home, I just call in the numbers to my vet and she calls me back if an adjustment need to be made. It saves money this way too. Just be sure to consult with your vet before making any changes, your vet knows YOUR cat's health and what best to do.

It's hard and overwhelming in the beginning, more costly too, but it does get better.

Lots of luck and I hope your cat gets well fast.
 
DoubleTrouble said:
...Just a word of advice on the food. I know many people are against the prescribed Hill's M/D..but it is designed specifically for your diabetic cat's needs. I have done extensive looking into these foods as I was advised to use low end foods such as Fancy Feast, Friskies, etc....You should really consult with your vet about this and NOT change foods without your vet's recommendation.
Click to expand...
Hi,

Those are very interesting points that you make. Thank you.
And I am glad to hear that your cats are doing well.

I would hope that all of us here feed our cats the best quality food we can afford. Some of us have sufficient money to enable us to have lots of choices about what we feed our cats, some of us are struggling on a tight budget. Some of us have only one cat to feed, some have many cats to feed. But I believe that everyone here has the best interests of their cats at heart.
And yes, the carb content of the food shouldn't be the only consideration. (And in fact where cats have another serious health issue going on it is often recommended here that the more serious health issue should take precedence when making food (or medication) choices, as the diabetes treatment can be 'worked around that'.)

The issue of 'what to feed' can be a difficult one. How do we know what or who to believe? It's not easy.
I used to feed Hill's Science Diet dry food that was recommended and sold by my vet (and by most other vets in the UK). I trusted that this was the right choice for my cats. Then Bertie became diabetic at the age of 8...
I switched all my cats to low carb wet food and the condition of all of them improved enormously. The 'proof of the pudding was in the eating', so to speak.
And I do still sometimes wonder whether Bertie would have been diabetic at all if I had only ever fed him low carb wet food.

Here in the UK there is a financial link between certain pet food manufacturers and the veterinary profession. And I understand that training in feline nutrition is also sponsored by certain pet food manufacturers.
I wonder if the same is true in the US? You may want to read the following extract written by a US vet, Dr Lisa Pierson (It's from catinfo.org).

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

"All canned foods made by Hill's are too high in carbohydrates. This includes all of their 'prescription' diets including m/d and w/d.
As a side note, here is an excerpt from a paper that I am working on entitled Veterinarian Prescribed Diets/Over-the-Counter Options:

'Prescription dietʼ is an industry-coined term trademarked by Hill's and holds no legal meaning.
In other words, these diets contain no ingredient that actually requires a prescription. The term 'prescription diet' is simply a clever marketing tool between Hillʼs and veterinarians. The sale of these diets is restricted (by Hillʼs, not by law) to veterinarians only. In return, Hillʼs enjoys a boost in perception of quality brought about by this professionʼs endorsement of their products. However, this perception of quality is undeserved and this incestuous relationship jeopardizes the integrity of the veterinary profession.'

There is nothing magical about the veterinarian-prescribed diabetes-management diets. In fact, several of them such as Hill's m/d and w/d (dry and canned), Purina DM dry, and Royal Canin DS (dry) are far too high in carbohydrates making them very inappropriate choices for all cats but especially diabetic patients."


Eliz
 
Elizabeth,

I agree with you that not all of us can afford more expensive foods. I myself am now disabled and on a fixed income. I have reached out for help with their diabetic needs, and most places I have tried had "rules" that weren't in the best interest of the cats' treatment. Luckily, my vet has helped me tremendously. She is more concerned with the health of animals than the money.
I was feeding my cats Fancy Feast to save money. No, it wasn't worth it. I could just as easily blame the Fancy Feast for 2 of my cats' diabetes as they are not related and both were diagnosed with diabetes around the same time. The fact remains not all cats' diabetes are derived from diet. I did however take all of my cats off of FF. I have a Main Coon who was gaining too much weight and her fur was getting very rough and knotty. I tried oils, different foods, etc. After the boys were diagnosed with diabetes I switched her to Hill's W/D, she is doing very well and her coat once again is soft, shiny and so far, no more knots. And as I stated before, my boys are doing much better as well, with lower numbers, and a visibly noticeable improvement all around. In fact, my one boy who had a lot of gastro issues going on, has drastically improved and has no more issue with that. Years ago one of my cats had horrible stomach problems. His vet back then had recommended Science Diet, he improved drastically as well....when I became disabled I had to cut costs and unfortunately cut costs on my cats' nutrition....I wound up with my cats not doing so well, now causing me vet bills for their treatment. It wasn't worth it...so I guess you could say I have my "proof" as well.
I can assure you most vets aren't "trained in nutrition" by food manufacturers. Many vets do speak with manufacturers to gain knowledge on their particular products. My vet is constantly looking into nutritional values in other foods, but it doesn't mean she is gaining her knowledge from them.
As far a DR. Pierson, I'm sure she is a decent vet, with the best intentions, but her info here is off a bit. Not sure why it states that Hill's is "too high in carbs" when they are far lower than most over the counter foods. As far as the reason it is prescribed food, the M/D is designed and balanced specifically for a diabetic cats. The portions are figured based on the individual cat (ie; weight, BG level, etc) and has other equally important nutritional balances. It is prescribed to ensure that each cat is individually seen to determine its needs. She may not like the food and she is entitled to her opinion, but to make false claims about the food is inappropriate.
I have seen a list of foods here (dated 2012) that does not even contain the nutritional values for Royal Canin Diabetic food (wet) which is lower in carbs than Hill's.
Again, focusing on only carbs is dangerous to these cats as higher phosphorus and fats are only assisting in future kidney disease and other diabetic related illnesses.
So my advice to Laura, was simply to work closely with her vet, while many here have been extremely helpful, none of them have examined nor have her cats' history. I see too many here pushing the FF which is ridiculously high in Phosphorus. Sure, the cat may go into remission tomorrow, but many develop CKD...isn't it wiser to feed them a more appropriate diet and avoid the risk of further complications? It can be pretty costly to have to run to the vet for more issues.
Again, I am NOT a vet nor trained in the field...I am simply in the learning process myself and have gone overboard with researching these things and have spoken to many licensed vets, with years of training and experience. I have also seen the result myself with my own cats.
 
DoubleTrouble said:
I am simply in the learning process myself and have gone overboard with researching these things and have spoken to many licensed vets, with years of training and experience. I have also seen the result myself with my own cats.
Click to expand...

Hi again, (I'm sorry, I don't know your name)

We are all in the "learning process"; and it is for each of us to weigh up the information we find and the advice given to us, and then to make our own choices, and to learn from our own experience.
I'm very glad your choices have worked well for you.

Best wishes to you,

Eliz

PS. My apologies to the original poster for taking up so much space on her thread.
 
Hi everyone, thanks for your concern! Rupert is doing well, he should be going back to the vet next week to check his levels. He doesn't like being poked and prodded so at the moment the easiest option is for us to take him there. We will eventually learn how to test at home. We have enough trouble giving him insulin sometimes. Something that we all need to get used to.

He is loving his m/d. We have decided to go with our vet's advice. My family have taken all our pets there my whole life so I trust their advice and while he is eating the m/d without a problem we will keep feeding him that.

We aren't treating him with the view of remission, just treatment. From what I have been told and understand he will have this for the rest of his life. If he does go into remission that will be a bonus. In the mean time we are just working on getting his levels down.

We're in this for the long haul and it's overwhelming and confusing but Rupert means the world to us so we are prepared to do the work.
 
Hi Laura,

That is great news!!! So glad to hear he is eating well. I would love my cats to go into remission immediately too, but not willing to risk their health to do it. If this helps you any, my Maxx was diagnosed in October, he has been on Hill's M/D since, it took a little bit but he is really close to not needing insulin. I wouldn't say he is in remission, but he is doing so well. Mufasa, a stray that I took in and took to the vet and was diagnosed 6 weeks ago, is doing much better as well, he is till reading in the high 200's low 300's but it has only been 6 weeks. He had some gastro issues, but the change in food seem to have really helped with that as well. They are both very healthy and visually doing better.
A couple of weeks back we changed their insulin from ProZinc to Lantus. They are responding very well.
I'm so glad to hear you are focusing on their overall health. The M/D is a great food. I'm actually feeding my Main Coon who is NOT a diabetic Hill's W/D....her coat is much softer and she is playful and her old self again.
I am not sure where you are located, but here ( US) Hill's occasionally sends patients a bag of M/D directly to your home free of charge. I don't feed my cats dry anymore per se, but I do use pieces of kibble as their "cookies" (treats)....
You made the right choice to follow your vets treatment, especially when so new to diabetes. Your vet knows your cats complete health and knows which treatment best suits him. I sincerely hope your cat continues to improve. Like I've said, it can be expensive in the beginning and overwhelming, but once you are home testing, and able to do the BG Curves at home, it will get much cheaper.
Lots of luck and keep us posted.
kathi :smile:
 
Hi Laura,

Glad Rupert is responding. The important thing at the moment is to get him eating & get him used to having his injections.

When you have learnt to hometest, I would then consider putting him on a lower carb food. fewer carbs in his system will mean that less insulin is required.

Incidentally, (Beware...ranting ahead...) Hills M/D is sold as lower carb food, but it is not a prescription therapy, and actually contains maize starch, which we all know is carbohydrate. Debunking the myths of so-called 'Prescription' foods is something that can never be overemphasised. It does not require a prescription. It is not a recognised therapy. It is not controlled by the same regulations as medicines, and has never been through any clinical trials. It is a food that is marketed to resemble a therapy, in the same way that we humans by 'Diet' & 'Lite' foods for ourselves under the belief that they will help us lose weight. Hill's do not publish any of the scientific data they collect when testing their food. Nor do many pet food manufacturers. By law, all they need to show is that a minimum of 6 cats do not lose weight whilst on their diet. The whole industry is a complete nonsense and they are hoodwinking pet owners & vets alike across the globe. There is simply no legislation that will regulate this kind of marketing, and we buy these products believing they have been designed specifically for the benefit of our sick pet's health, when in fact, they have been labelled specifically to target people like us.

Saying that, if Rupert is happy on M/D, then feed him that. When you are all comfortable with hometesting, you can revisit his diet.

In Aus, you have Ziwipeak (actually made by the Kiwis), which is a decent food, but reasonably high in phosphorus so not for kitties with kidney worries.I will have a scout around for other brands available in Aus & get back to you about it.

Best wishes

Juliet
 
Actually that is false and repeating false information could be harmful and inappropriate for the care of animals. The reason it is "prescribed" is to prevent misuse. The food is designed to be fed based on the cats weight, BG levels, etc.( I go to a pharmacist to have my vitamin D pills (50,000mg) when there is no cause for vitamin D to require a script. ) The company does NOT pretend it has any magical ingredients, it supplies solely through vets in order it be fed properly and not that someone can just buy it off of a shelf and feed the incorrect amounts. It is also designed specifically for diabetics covering ALL their needs, properly balancing the carbs, fats and phos which are extremely important to avoid other diabetic related illnesses. It is low carb, properly balanced to the needs of the cat. It is much lower than almost all foods out on the shelves, less a few that compensate for their lower carbs with higher fat and phos which only succeeds in causing problems with the kidneys, etc. Which is why many of the kitties on these "low carb" only focused diets wind up with renal failure, and other illnesses. Yes great your cat goes into remission but now has kidney disease. Some of us prefer a much safer treatment.
The best thing to do is follow your own vets treatment, after all they have seen the cat and know what is best. I don't believe any vet in the world would prescribe something not appropriate for their patient.
 
DoubleTrouble said:
...repeating false information could be harmful and inappropriate for the care of animals. .
Click to expand...

I think we'd all agree that "repeating false information could be harmful and innapropriate for the care of animals".

You've made it very clear that you are keen to use and to promote the use of Hill's products.
This is obviously something that you feel passionate about. But, so that we don't take up further space on this thread repeating the same points, may I respectfully suggest that you start a thread in the Think Tank forum to discuss the pros and cons of various cat foods, including Hill's.

Eliz
 
Elizabeth

no I am not looking to promote Hill's. My response WAS to Laura....the other person that commented attempted to give her false information, I just responded with fact. I don't think it does anyone good to have false information that is repeated based on someone else's opinion. But Laura made the right choice and she and her cat will be happy she did. I see no reason for me to create a new thread when my comments were to Laura.
Have a nice day!
 
DoubleTrouble said:
...the other person that commented attempted to give her false information..
Click to expand...

This is a serious allegation. And - unless you can substantiate your comment with facts that can be verified - I will report your post to the moderators.
 
Please folks, let's get this topic back on track and try to help the original poster with her questions.

It's up to Laura to make her own decisions on what food she will feed. Our job is to help her the best way we can with the information we have available. The feeding recommendations we make are based on scientific articles, many vet journal published. For example.

We follow the AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats, published in 2010 which say to feed the lowest carb food your cat will eat. This is based on several vet journal articles, referenced in the guidelines.

Diet therapy goals and management
##Optimize body weight with appropriate protein and carbohydrate levels, fat restriction, and calorie control. ##Weigh at least monthly and adjust intake to maintain optimal weight.
##Management goal of weight loss in obese cats: 1% to 2% loss per week13 or a maximum of 4% to 8% per month (hepatic lipidosis risk is minimized with the recommended high-protein diet).

##Minimize postprandial hyperglycemia by managing protein and carbohydrate intake.
##Feed a high-protein diet (defined as >45% protein metabolizable energy [ME]) to maximize metabolic rate, improve satiety, and prevent lean muscle-mass loss.14-17 ##This is necessary to prevent protein malnutrition and loss of lean body mass.
##Protein normalizes fat metabolism and provides a consistent energy source.
##Arginine stimulates insulin secretion.

##Limit carbohydrate intake.18-21 ##Dietary carbohydrate may contribute to hyperglycemia and glucose toxicity in cats.
##Provide the lowest amount of carbohydrate levels in the diet that the cat will eat.
##Carbohydrate levels can be loosely classified as ultralow (<5% ME), low (5% to 25% ME), moderate (26% to 50% ME), and high (>50% ME).22

##Portion control by feeding meals.23,24 ##Allows monitoring of appetite and intake.
##Essential to achieve weight loss in obese cats.

##Canned foods are preferred over dry foods. Canned foods provide: ##Lower carbohydrate levels.
##Ease of portion control.
##Lower caloric density; cat can eat a higher volume of canned food for the same caloric intake.
##Additional water intake.25-28

##Adjust diet recommendations based on concurrent disease (e.g., chronic kidney disease, pancreatitis, intestinal disease).
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This article, "Management of Diabetic Cats with Long-acting Insulin" published in 2013 in the special edition on Feline Diabetes in Vet Clin Small Anim 43 (2013) 251–266 also says lower carb food is best.
Low-Carbohydrate Diet
Cats are obligate carnivores, and it has been demonstrated that glycemic control
increases when diabetic cats are fed a low-carbohydrate, high-protein diet
(<15% metabolizable energy).15,16 Wet-food diets more often have a lower carbohydrate
content than dry-food diets and are also beneficial in that they have been shown
to facilitate weight loss in obese cats.17–20 The highest remission rates described in diabetic
cats have been achieved in studies using glargine or detemir, in which cats were
fed a high-protein, low-carbohydrate wet-food diet with 6% or less energy from carbohydrates.
3,4,6 Although the choice of an optimal insulin increases the probability of good
glycemic control and remission, the choice of diet also has an important effect.16 The
use of low-carbohydrate food (12% compared with 26% energy from carbohydrate)
resulted in statistically higher remission rates (68% compared with 41%) despite similar
protein levels.21 There have been no comparative studies using diets with lower carbohydrate
levels, such as those reported to be associated with remission rates of more
than 80% in newly diagnosed diabetic cats (6% of energy from carbohydrate).
Click to expand...

The feeding recommendations are from articles like this, not simply our opinions.
 
Hi Laura!
He doesn't like being poked and prodded so at the moment the easiest option is for us to take him there. We will eventually learn how to test at home.
Click to expand...
I know you said that for now, Rupert is easier to test at the vets.

Thought you might like to see these links to home testing, since you said you thought you would learn how to do that at home eventually.
1. This first one is more about the how to's of testing https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub
2. This second one is about making your cat more comfortable and accepting of the process. https://sites.google.com/site/michelangeloprofilefdmb/feline-diabetes/ear-testing-psychology

One step at a time. Getting shots every day and a food change is a lot to happen to Rupert. He needs time to adjust to all these changes.

Hope all continues to do well with you and Rupert
 
Hi Laura,

I was a very reluctant hometester; I was convinced that my cat would be impossible to test. But I got him used to the whole idea of testing very gradually, by getting him to associate having his ears touched - and the sight and sounds of the testing kit - with positive things.

Bertie was almost 7kg of pure attitude at the time of his diagnosis, so I thought there was no way that I'd be able to test him unless he wanted it.
I started out by popping him up onto my desk and then touching or holding his ears for a few moments, and then giving him a low carb treat as a reward. Then I also included clicking the lancet pen (ear-pricking device) next to his ear, and then gave him a treat; etc, etc. Then I added all the pieces of the puzzle together and tried to do a test for real. I crumbled some treats, and while Bertie was munching on those I quickly pricked his ear...and got blood! And Bertie didn't bat an eyelid. Hurrah!
Now, he comes running when he hears me rattle the test strip vial. And I can also test him while he's dozing in his basket.

The test itself shouldn't hurt the cat. So it's really a matter of just getting the cat to stick around long enough for the test to be accomplished. (And after just a little while you get really fast at it!)

Here's a couple of pages you may find helpful.
The first link is to a page of info and pics about hometesting. (I learned to test from this page):
http://www.sugarpet.net/bloodtst.html

The second link is to a page of reasons explaining why hometesting is so useful:
http://www.sugarpet.net/reasons.html

Even if you don't feel you want to hometest straight away I can strongly recommend buying a testing kit anyway and familiarising yourself with how it works. Then, in an emergency (if you see unusual symptoms or behaviour in your cat, or maybe you suspect that his blood glucose might be low) you'll be able to check his glucose and either reassure yourself that all is OK, or, take whatever action may be appropriate.

I'm sure you will do just fine with managing Rupert's diabetes, Laura; and he is very lucky to have you care for him as you do. cat_pet_icon

Eliz
 
Hi Laura, glad Dusty's "twin" is doing well. We all make our own decisions on what food we eat, some of us keep going to McDonald's, Burger King and Taco Bell even though we know most but not all menu choices are bad for us. Since our pets can't make that decision we have to make the right choice for them. My cat Dusty was fed Hills and he kept gaining weight until suddenly he became diabetic. After finding out that high carb diets are the key reason many cats and dogs become diabetic I quickly switched him to wet low carb Fancy Feast. When I first started treating Dusty with insulin I was convinced this would be our way of life from then on, I didn't start treating him with the goal of going into remission. After changing Dusty to Fancy Feast he quickly and I do mean quickly went into remission; within a week! It was so quick I hardly had time to reduce his insulin dosages and just like that he was in remission. We're now blessed with his remission, he's healthy, his coat has never been shinier, he's full of life and only eats Fancy Feast. Hopefully one day years down the road when you're still treating your kitty you don't find yourself wondering what would have happened if you had switched your kitty to low carb wet food.
 
Elizabeth
I'm not sure exactly what you wish to report, but if you feel the need I won't stop you. Again, my advice was to Laura to follow her vet. Do you have facts that can be verified that Hill's M/D is produced for the purposes the other poster posted? One doesn't like Hill's M/D that is fine. Apparently Laura's vet, who has seen her cat has prescribed Hill's to her cat based on her cat's specific needs, My vets have as well. If you do not like my advice to Laura, or my comment responding to someone else that is fine, I am not understanding your need to demand anything from me. I have not addressed you. I have done nothing except convey the information I have received from various licensed vets, feline nutritionist, my own vet, the manufacturer, etc....all professionals trained and experienced in the care of feline diabetes. I have also made it clear that I am not a vet and where I have obtained my information. Have a nice day.

Laura I apologize for drifting off in conversation with others. My comments were intended for you. I sincerely hope your kitty is doing well. I am grateful that our vets have chosen the treatment they have.
 
Hi everyone

I appreciate your advice and your experiences with your cats and their diabetes. Elizabeth I really like your way of getting Bertie used to the ear pricks, I'll definitely give that a go. I'll have a look at those links as well.

I would also appreciate your respect for the decisions I have made with my partner in regards to Rupert's diabetes. We have his best interests in mind and have chose to go with our vets recommendations.

I think we can all take a breather now. I have a lot of information at hand now and I thank you all for that.

I will keep you up to date with how he is going.

Thanks again

Laura
 
Laura13 said:
I will keep you up to date with how he is going.

Thanks again

Laura
Click to expand...
Hi Laura,

Yes, DO please post back and keep us up to date with how things are going.
I'm sure you and Rupert will do just fine. :smile:

Best wishes,

Eliz

PS. I am truly sorry that so much of your thread got sidetracked, and sorrier still for the 'tone' of some of the conversation here. I have been around FDMB for 7 years and I can assure you that things like this are an extremely rare occurrence.
FDMB is normally a very friendly, supportive, respectful and nurturing environment, and I'm sad that you haven't yet had the chance to see us as we normally are.
Again, my sincere apologies.
 
In the "old days", I might have jumped into this fire with both guns blazing on the whole "food" debate...

But I no longer post on the board, except when I put on my "moderator hat". Since this thread has been reported to the moderators twice, I figured I'd stop by.

I am going to close the thread and ask that any further discussion on the pros and cons of a low carb diet, or which foods are appropriate for a diabetic cat or not appropriate take place in a "Think Tank" thread, or at least in a different thread here.

In the nearly three years I've been posting on the board, one of the most sad things I've seen is when the "Introduction" thread of a brand new member gets hijacked by arguments that are not related to the questions the new member is trying to have answered. When "we" start dropping the "you should, you have to, you must do...." lines - although our intentions might be in the right place - it makes me cringe for the "newbie". All the new person wants is for somebody to PLEASE HELP ME!!! MY CAT IS DYING AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!. We are all very passionate about treating feline diabetes. This is an amazing place filled with some of the most generous souls in the universe. But at times, we might come on just a bit too strong.

Please keep two things in mind -

Baby steps. We all know how overwhelming "this" is. Think back to the first day you posted.

Do No Harm. That's the basis that Rebecca established for those who give advice. And that includes not only the sick sugar kitty. It includes the care-giver as well. People have joined the board, posted a few times, and disappeared. I always wonder what happened to those people and those kitties. Many times, they leave because either they've been overloaded with too much information too soon. Or because their feelings have been hurt. In most cases, that could have been avoided.

To Laura13 - Laura, please, please, keep posting and let us know how you and Rupert are doing. Just start a new thread the next time you post.

Thanks to all of you for all you do,

Carl
 
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