New readings and reduced dosage

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mfrancis69

mfrancis69

Member Since 2013
I have been gathering new readings and have posted them below.

I wasn't sure if I was accurately giving her the 2 unit dosage and made sure I was before making any reductions in her dosage.
After monitoring that for two days, I have reduced her dosage to 1.5 units and that seems to be helping.

10/29/2013 9:00 AM 178 2 units
11:15 AM 29
9:15 PM 118 2 units

10/30/2013 9:15 AM 123 2 units
9:30 PM 116 2 units
11:00 PM 113

10/31/2013 9:15 AM 137 2 units
11:30 AM 56
9:15 PM 173 2 units

11/1/2013 9:15 AM 117 2 units
12:15 PM 34
9:30 PM 155 1.5 units

11/2/2013 9:15 AM 108 1.5 units
9:15 PM 100

11/3/2013 8:30 AM 150 1.5 units
10:30 AM 64

Reducing the dosage seems to be helping, any feedback on her readings would be helpful.

Thanks
Melissa

mfrancis69

Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:17 pm
 
We usually recommend when you get a reading below 50 that a reduction is earned. However, getting readings in the 20/30's is quite low and should be treated in order to avoid severe hypo issues. It can be treated with higher carb food, gravy and karo (or other simple sugars).

HEre is a link on how to treat hypos: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1122

Please read and print this, and follow the steps to avoid these really low numbers in the future.

And here is how to "build" your hypo tool box: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2354

How long have you been on insulin, have you started a spreadsheet yet? If not, may I suggest that you start one: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
 
A spreadsheet and some tidbits of information in your user profile signature would be helpful.

Not sure what insulin you are using since you don't say in this post and haven't read back all through your history. Little bits of information such as the insulin and test meter being used in your signature would help us to help you better.
 
Thanks for the info and the links I will check them out.

Sassy has been on insulin for about a year now, I had no guidance from the vet other than give her insulin and have her take 2 units every 12 hours.
I have learned a lot from this forum and feel I have a better understanding of how to care for her going forward.

The only the vet wanted to do was keep having me come in over and over and charge me $175 to $200 each visit.
I am not working and couldn't afford that even if I was. I felt that was excessive and haven't been able to go back, can't afford another visit and can't afford to be getting partial information to treat her.

I have a spreadsheet and have been keeping one for awhile now, that is where the readings that I posted came from.
My difficulty is having no guidance, not knowing what to do when, the dosage reduction has seemed to help, and her mood and pep has also changed.
Although it is very difficult to get 1.5 units instead of 2 or even 1 unit at a time. as you know it isn't a lot to begin with.
I will keep monitoring and frequently post readings to get help understanding everything.

Thanks
Melissa
 
Melissa,

We can and are happy to help you. In order to do that effectively, we need basic information from you:

what insulin are you using?
What syringes are you using? and do they have 1/2 unit markings on them?

You mentioned you have a spreadsheet, would you please attach it to your signature so that we can look at it and be better able to help guide you.
 
Deb,

I have highlighted my situation regarding my cat Sassy, how long she has been diabetic and what she is on, how much her dose is etc.

I have been a new member for about a month now and posted all the history as a new member.
Maybe searching for my member name would get you to my pstings without having to look through many others (mfrancis69).

Thanks for your feedback
Melissa and Sassy
 
Hilary,

Sassy is on Lantus and I was told to start her at 2 units, no my syringes to not have half markings on them and I have suspected that I don't have the right ones for the dosage of a cat.

I was told to go to the pharmacy at Walmart and ask for small gauge syringes.
I am using ReliOn Insulin syringes ( 3/10ml cc - 29 gauge - 12.7 mm) these are the same ones given to regular diabetic people.

It was difficult to get a 2 unit dosage from this type and now reducing that amount has made it even harder.

Like I mentioned before I have had no guidance, just trying to figure it all out for myself.

I appreciate the feedback, like I mentioned I have learned so much more from this forum than I have ever been told from the vet.

Thanks
Melissa
 
Hilary,

Looking at my syringes more closely, I see that there are 1/2 marks but not quarter marks.

I will keep a close eye on her dosage, and post more readings in a few days, when I have gathered enough readings to compare one day to the next.

Thanks Melissa
 
The how to link the SS into your signature instructions from the google doc are in this link here, from the Tech Support forum. Look down at step B
B. Publishing your SS, aka Attaching to signature
Click to expand...
. Fairly easy to follow the directions.

With a SS for us to look at and the information in your user signature to look at, it's easier for us to help and guide you.

When I talk about your user signature, it's part of the user control panel. If you look at my posts, you'll see some information like my name, cats name age and sex, insulin used, meter used, food fed, etc. It's a quick recap of some of the key information you might have included in your previous posts, but right there for us to give a quick glance at and answer you quicker and better.

With hundreds of post a day on this message board, and a very small group of dedicated volunteers to answer, every little bit you can do to help us help you better is appreciated very much.

Won't you please consider putting some key information in your user control panel, profile, edit signature? We sure would love to have the information there to look at quickly.
 
I have posted the readings from the spreadsheet at the top of this post.
Times, dates readings and dosage, I am not sure why the request to post the actual spreadsheet is needed.

Being new to the forum, I haven't figured out all the in and outs of what to post where and how.
I tried to post a photo of Sassy as everyone else has photos, but even after reducing the size I wasn't able to get the website to accept it.

I do appreciate all the advice and feedback, as I mentioned before I have learned a lot from this forum and have so much more information in the past month from her than I ever had from the vet.
I will attempt to get more information on my profile for ease of other members, but not promising that it will all happen quickly.

The spreadsheet that was given to me from the forum, I didn't understand all the marking etc and being familiar with Excel, I just started keeping a record that was easier for me to navigate.
The readings that I have posted are the way the spreadsheet reads.

Thanks
Melissa
 
Ok, I have managed to figure out the photo and adding more basic information on my profile so far.

Now to tackle the spreadsheet and figure that one out soon
Melissa
 
There are several reasons why we ask you to put a spreadsheet together and attach it to your signature.

1) Using the google spreadsheet that we have on this board, will allow everyone to talk in the same language. We are all in different time zones and when it is 7 pm for you, it is 10 pm for me and it becomes complicated trying to understand and remember just where everyone is located and what the real time it is for them.

Using the google spreadsheet, we use the clock in a different way, where for example 7 pm is your shot time, we call that PMPS on the spreadsheet - meaning Evening pre-shot. Then if you test at 9 pm for example, we call that +2 - 2 hours after giving insulin.

This allows us all to talk the same language regardless of time zones.

2) The google spreadsheet is color coded when you put in the BG levels and this is another way to help us quickly, easily see trends - oh he is in the pink, let's see how we get him to yellow or blue. The codes are on the spreadsheet so you will easily understand what the colors represent.

3) By including the spreadsheet in your signature, it will always be readily available for all to see by clicking on it. We won't have to scroll through several posts in this or other threads in an attempt to find your numbers.

The point of all this, is to make the process easier for everyone to see and be able to help you. While you may feel it's a pain to do some of this work, in the long run, it will make the process much easier for all involved.

Additionally, what I see immediately by looking at your first post above, is that it doesn't appear that you are getting many tests in. Are you able to test more frequently to give us more BG numbers to look at.

4) We look at the trends and patterns of these numbers and the spreadsheets makes it that much easier to quickly see, including gaps where testing would be a good idea.

Hopefully this makes sense and if you need help putting it together or understanding it, please let us know.
 
Hilary,

Thank you for the reply. I understand the concept of the spreadsheet, I just didn't understand the spreadsheet.

You have helped me to understand it somewhat better but there are a few things that completely have me confused.

How do you know what my normal test time is if there is no where to put a time?
How does the time zone factor in? If I take it at 8 pm, it shouldn't matter where you are or where I am at, it was done at 8 pm? This confuses me
Maybe I am thinking too much on this.

By your explanation of what the numbers and letter mean it makes a lot more sense, I had no idea and was very confused as to what I put where, now I will need to go back and change my spreadsheet according to what I have just learned.

I will work on fixing my spreadsheet and getting it posted soon.
As far as the testing, we are preparing to move, I try and test her more than the two times a day but it has been difficult, I try and test her about two hours after a shot and today I plan on getting a reading at the 6 hour mark after the first shot.

Thanks again, I am finally understanding the spreadsheet better, having the time in the spreadsheet helps me more, that way I remember what time of day I tested and can figure out another time do to it again.

Melissa
 
Hi Melissa and Sassy!

Here is some further help explaining how to use the spreadsheet.
KPassa said:
Questions on understanding how to use the spreadsheet get asked a lot, so I thought I'd share a quick run-down of spreadsheet-specific terminology:
  • Fur shot: when the syringe needle pokes through almost like a sewing needle through fabric and it is unknown how much, if any, insulin actually made it inside the cat. Usually detected by wet fur or the smell of insulin (it smells like band-aids or scotch or antiseptic). IT IS ALWAYS ASSUMED THAT THE CAT GOT THE INSULIN AND YOU NEVER GIVE ANOTHER SHOT. It is always better to miss a shot than to give too much insulin.
  • AMS/PMS: morning (AM)/evening (PM) shot
  • AMPS/PMPS: morning pre-shot test/evening pre-shot test (it's assumed the shot is given within 15 minutes or less of this test).
  • +1, +2, +3...: How many hours after a shot, i.e. +1 would be one hour after their last PS (pre-shot) test
  • BG/BS: Blood Glucose or Blood Sugar (numbers). Usually used in relation to testing and dosing and what "level" or "point" the cat is at. Used in a sentence: "Michelangelo's BGs have been high so I've been increasing his dose."
  • AMBG/PMBG: morning/evening Blood Glucose. Used when no shot has been given at the regular shot time.
Click to expand...
As for testing, I always try to get at least 4 tests minimum each day:
  • AM Pre-shot test to know if it's safe to give a shot
  • AM mid-cycle test, if possible (this one I sometimes skip because of work). It lets me know how the dose is working and how low Mikey might go
  • PM Pre-shot test to know if it's safe to give a shot
  • Before-bed test to see how low he might go overnight while I'm sleeping
All other tests, I consider them as more data points on how Michelangelo reacts to the insulin in that particular cycle, how food and/or activity affects his numbers, if he needs an increase or decrease in dose, how he might be handling a new dose, etc.... I basically play fill-in-the blank across the week and try to grab tests at different times across different days with a few repeats thrown in.

Let me know if that helps or if you have any more questions. :-D
 
How do you know what my normal test time is if there is no where to put a time?
Click to expand...

you see how it is set up with amps then 1,2,3,4 -11 then pmps and the numbers start again.

your amps and pmps are your shot times -you put the bg test and units given in the amps or pmps section.

the numbers 1-11 represent the number of hours after your morning and night shot times.

so for example - if you shoot at 8 am and then test at 11 am, 1 pm and 4 pm your spreadsheet would look like, I am using random bg numbers for illustration only :

amps 300 2 units
+ 3 250
+5 225
+8 175
pmps 250 2 units

make sense?

How does the time zone factor in? If I take it at 8 pm, it shouldn't matter where you are or where I am at, it was done at 8 pm? This confuses me
Maybe I am thinking too much on this.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter, but when you say I tested at 8 pm, I don't know when 8 pm is for you as it is different for me, but if you say you tested at +5, I know you tested 5 hours after giving the insulin injection and am better able to help guide you with what to do, such as is the number going up or going down? and did the cat reach nadir yet (lowest bg level) or may the cat continue to drop and if so, could he drop dangerously low?

telling me I shot at 8 pm and tested at 1 am, isn't as clear as I have to now calculate how many hours after the shot you tested and what exactly does this mean - again, another way to simplify the process and help us, help you better.


By your explanation of what the numbers and letter mean it makes a lot more sense, I had no idea and was very confused as to what I put where, now I will need to go back and change my spreadsheet according to what I have just learned.
Click to expand...

Yes, it can be confusing and a lesson on understanding the spreadsheet is common. There is a glossary of terms in the starred/sticky section that will help understand the terminology used and what the different components on the spreadsheet mean.

Of course you can always ask, we are happy to answer and don't expect everyone to get it all at once.

I will work on fixing my spreadsheet and getting it posted soon.
As far as the testing, we are preparing to move, I try and test her more than the two times a day but it has been difficult, I try and test her about two hours after a shot and today I plan on getting a reading at the 6 hour mark after the first shot.

Thanks again, I am finally understanding the spreadsheet better, having the time in the spreadsheet helps me more, that way I remember what time of day I tested and can figure out another time do to it again.
Click to expand...

great! the more tests you can get, the more data you have to work with and can start seeing trends.

how else can we help.
 
Thanks KPassa,

Your explanation was just what I needed, I understand now what each line item is for and why yu should test more than twice a day.

I too am very busy, we are getting ready to list our house and getting it ready to put on the market.
We are also packing, painting, making repairs etc, so my days get pretty busy. I have been trying to test more than the twice a day, but not being too successful at it.

As far as testing to see if it is safe to give the shot? What is an unsafe level to give it?
What number should I be looking for and what I would constitute not giving one at all ?

As I explained I keep the spreadsheet and am understanding a better way to keep it, however, when I log on to my google account, which I hardly remember the password, I do not see the things that the instructions tell me to post my spreadsheet.

I want to post some new number to get opinions on what her current levels are now that the dose is lower. I am having troubles understanding the highs and lows from day to day when the routine, food etc do not change.

Hilary I understand what you mean now, but I have still added the time on my spreadsheet for myself, I am however using the +1, +2 etc for the purpose of posting and the forum understanding the readings.

Here is the latest readings since my last post;

Date Time AMPS U + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10 +11 Time PMPS U
11/4/13 8:30 AM 89 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8:45 PM 129 1.5
11/5/13 8:30 AM 136 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:30 PM 113 1.5
11/6/13 9:00 AM 155 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 84 0 0 0 0 0 9:30 PM 101 1.5
11/7/13 9:15 AM 175 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10:15 PM 165 1.5
11/8/13 9:00 AM 181 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 75 0 0 0 0 0 9:00 PM 171 1.5
11/9/13 9:00 AM 99 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:30 PM 137 1.5
11/10/13 8:30 AM 159 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:30 PM 128 1.5
11/11/13 9:30 AM 188 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:00 PM 130 1.5
11/12/13 10:00 PM 116 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:30 PM 172 1.5
11/13/13 10:00 AM 118 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8:45 PM 173 1.5
11/14/13 9:15 AM 119 1.5 0 0 0 0 100 0 0 0 168 0 0 9:15 PM 127 1.5
11/15/13 10:00 AM 96 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:00 PM 97 1.5

I know this isn't ideal but this is the best I can do right now, I hope it is able to be read and understood.
Thanks Melissa
 
Sorry, I straightened it out so it was easier to read and once it was posted it didn't work out.

Let me try something else:

Date Time AMPS U + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10 +11 Time PMPS U
11/4/13 8:30 AM 89 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8:45 PM 129 1.5
11/5/13 8:30 AM 136 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:30 PM 113 1.5
11/6/13 9:00 AM 155 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 84 0 0 0 0 0 9:30 PM 101 1.5
11/7/13 9:15 AM 175 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10:15 PM 165 1.5
11/8/13 9:00 AM 181 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 75 0 0 0 0 0 9:00 PM 171 1.5
11/9/13 9:00 AM 99 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:30 PM 137 1.5
11/10/13 8:30 AM 159 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:30 PM 128 1.5
11/11/13 9:30 AM 188 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:00 PM 130 1.5
11/12/13 10:00 PM 116 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:30 PM 172 1.5
11/13/13 10:00 AM 118 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8:45 PM 173 1.5
11/14/13 9:15 AM 119 1.5 0 0 0 0 100 0 0 0 168 0 0 9:15 PM 127 1.5
11/15/13 10:00 AM 96 1.5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9:00 PM 97 1.5
 
The spacing is not staying corrected

Date 11/4
AMPS 89 1.5 units
PMPS 129 1.5

Date 11/5
AMPS 136 1.5
PMPS 113 1.5

Date 11/6
AMPS 155 1.5
+6 84
PMPS 101 1.5

Date 11/7
AMPS 175 1.5
PMPS 165 1.5

Date 11/8
AMPS 181 1.5
+6 84 1.5
PMPS 171 1.5

Date 11/9
AMPS 99 1.5
PMPS 137

All readings in between were only at AMPS and PMPS until yesterday and they were all in the blue

11/14
AMPS 119 1.5
+5 100
+9 168
PMPS 127

11/15
AMPS 96
PMPS 97
 
Do you want me to ask someone to set the sheet up for you so you can just edit it?

By the way these numbers are very good. Normal cat levels are 50-130 and she is staying close to that at 84-182. So still a little high but her numbers are in the healing range which means she may be heading to remission. You will need more tests to make sure she doesn't go too low now as you may find she won't need as much insulin soon! If at any point she drops under 50 you need to decrease the dose a little - so you need to watch for that! .

I usually recommend 4 tests a day

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule - note this varies by cat so try and vary this time. This is to see how low she is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want her dropping too low (under 50).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what her overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

Wendy
 
The board software automatically converts 2 spaces into 1 space, that is why it wouldn't stay lined up.

A work around is to use periods or underscores and change the color of those to match the background - very laborious!

I was able to spot the nadirs and they are promising. Keep working at it and you may get your cat off insulin and to a diet controlled state.
 
I have finally got my spreadsheet attached and have been posting daily readings.
It is attached to my signature, I think that her readings have become much better since reducing her dosage down to 1.5.

Each day I see the readings getting better and better, take a look at my spreadsheet and tell me what you think.

Like I have said before, I am still learning what to do when according to the readings I receive from her, so with that said any feedback or advice is helpful to me.

Thanks
Melissa
 
Great healing numbers!

try and get some mid cycle tests - if she drops below 50 then reduce her dose by 0.25units as she might be trying to go into remission and you don't want a hypo. Also reduce the dose by 0.25units if she stays in 50-130 for a week.

Wendy
 
Thanks Wendy,

Good to know. I can't believe the support and knowledge I have gained from this forum, also I cannot believe that the doctors didn't tell me any of this.
She seems to be higher or lower not sure which is which on certain days, (I am referring to the mid to high 100 range), not sure if that means high or low.

I have been trying to get my house ready to put on the market and have been pretty busy, once we get it listed things will be more relaxed and I plan to do another curve on her when I can focus on her for the whole day.
I am also trying to get her the vet again soon for a follow up visit, I have contacted Jennifer to help with that if possible, as I don't have any income at all right now.

Hopefully they can see if there are any other health issues and get all of this under control once and for all.

Thanks for all your help
Melissa
 
These numbers look great! If she holds these numbers she may well need a dose decrease - one step toward remission.

Can you get a mid cycle and/or before bed test? Want to check she isn't dropping below 50 as thats a dose decrease. Or if she stays 50-130 for a week then thats also a dose decrease.

Lastly - you don't need to set a new sheet for each month. i couldn't find the november ones at first! We usually use one sheet a year.

Wendy
 
I can't believe the support and knowledge I have gained from this forum, also I cannot believe that the doctors didn't tell me any of this.
Click to expand...

We live with our diabetic cats on a daily basis, so we have learned a lot of tips and tricks and have lots of insights that the vets may not know about. Wide range of collective experience here. Think of it as the difference between reading about how to do something in a book and then actually doing it yourself for real. You realize all the little things the book may not have talked about. We try to pass along that experience to people here.
 
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