New poster with questions

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Dragonfly229

Dragonfly229

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Hi, I'm new to posting, but I've been reading your forum since Linus was diagnosed last month. I have just built a Google spreadsheet with all his numbers and will try to attach it to my signature. He is on ProZinc, currently 3 units, and his numbers are pretty much all over the place. The one thing I do notice is that he will sometimes be much lower pre-shot, as if the insulin takes 10-12 hours to kick in. He then goes right back up within an hour or two. It's hard to give that shot at the low numbers, I keep telling myself that I know he will go back up, and when he does he will need it. From what I've read, ProZinc has no residual, once it's gone, it's gone, and if I didn't give the shot earlier, it's that much longer until the next dose starts working. Is that essentially correct?

I have been testing Linus for a little under a month. How long will it take before his glucose levels will be somewhat more predictable? I plan to try to be around home to get a new curve tomorrow, the last one I did he stayed over 400 all day long before dropping to 265 at +10. I would like to see a real curve instead of all these spikes.

As far as food, we've switched from Nutro dry to all canned, primarily Merrick and Sophisticat, with Evo low carb dry for treats during shots and ear sticks. I know I'm on the right track, is there something else I should/could be doing? Thanks for any input, I've already learned so much from this site and this board.
 
Welcome to the FDMB family, Sue and Linus! cat_pet_icon

It's possible the amount of insulin you are giving is too much.....but let's see what the more experienced folks have to say, ok? :-D

Just wanted to welcome you and say "WOW! Good on you for getting the spreadsheet up and running and with numbers!" Woohoo!

Also, since you're using ProZinc, feel free to post in the PZI group. We're a small but growing family over there. :-D
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB...
I just had an experience with my baby Shakes....I was using the wrong meter, then I switched meters,upped dose,
and his numbers have been high with a low preshot every other day or so...
turns out I was giving too much insulin....
We always say to start low and go slow
If you started at 3 units...most likey that is too high which is why you are getting the
numbers you are
PLease reduce the dose to 1 unit and start from there...but also realize that it sounds like he is
getting too much so it might take him a few days to come down from that rebound he is on...

that is my recent experience and I am sure that a lot of people will be on soon
to help you...there is a lot of reading on here so please go through and let us know if you have any questions

Denise and Shakes
 
Great work on the spreadsheet!

When I had spitzer on ProZinc, it only lasted about 10 hours for him. Also, my vet indicated it can take upt to a month for the response to the ProZinc to stabilize.

When you increased to 3 units, you got a mid-cycle glucose less than 50. Generally, a 50 indicates a dose reduction. And, as the others have noted, you may have increased too quickly and need to back off and go more slowly.

As far as food goes - compare the different food's calorie and fat contents; variablity in the carb & fat content may be part of why you're getting variable numbers. Sophisticat (now Great Choice) has almost no carbs in the Turkey and Giblet, while the other has some carbs and fairly high fat. You may be better off with a consistent mix, rather than having very different levels meal to meal.
 
Hi Denise, thanks for the input. The vet started him at 1 unit, increased to 2 after a week when numbers were still high, and then to 3 on January 25th after many emails back and forth with my testing info. I've been beginning to realize that I may be causing the spikes I'm seeing because of the dose he's getting. I was thinking of trying Dr. Hodgkins' tight regulation protocol, but I'm not sure my schedule will allow testing and shots every 8 hours. I thought maybe 2 units every 8 hours with some overlap would be better than what he is getting now.

And thanks everyone for any advice, I do plan to head on over to the ProZinc board as well.

Currently feeding only 3 types of Sophisticat, low carb and no by-products in the smoked trout, shrimp and fish and whitefish and something types, as well as the low carb Merrick flavors. He still loves dry food, I didn't think I could switch him to wet until I found exactly what flavors he really loved, and then focus on those. He gets about a can of Merrick and a can of Sophisticat a day, plus another 1/2 a big can or 1 small can if he's eaten everything and asking for more. The primary symptom was a loss of weight and body condition, that has all come back, so even with the high numbers I do see progress.
 
Hi Sue & Linus,

Welcome! Great job in getting your ss up and testing so often. Linus does have very low numbers and for a newbie, they're a little scary. I don't understand why your vet wanted you to increase to 3u. I'm not a vet but he looks like a classic case of rebound to me. My opinion is that he is getting too much insulin. You're seeing extremely low numbers, then very high numbers which could be a reaction to too much insulin. That said though, all new insulin takers are all over for a long time. Every cat is different in how long it takes for them to regulate. Racci took forever to regulate and now is unregulated again hopefully temporarily because she's sick so you never can tell how long it will take. Linus looks like he could regulate quickly with all those nice low numbers.

You also need to read the link at the top of the health forum page about low numbers:http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=61799 if you haven't.

That said, it looks like he's doing well on the pzi but he's just getting too much of it. I would reduce to 1.5u and slowly increase by .5 from there after a week in between each increase if you need to if he were my cat but someone more familiar with PZI will be better able to tell you the length of time between increases. I use Lantus now. Racci did not do well on PZI.

BTW, PZI only lasted Racci about 10 hours also. Lantus is a better insulin, has a better remission rate and is usually cheaper because you don't have to get it from the vet.

Melanie & Racci
 
I just wanted to add a couple things.... for snacks/treats, you can toss those dry bits and try some better types like freeze dried chicken or some soft treats with no sweetener in them. Even a couple pieces of dry can be enough to set off a carb sensitive cat to go soaring.

if you are finding that PZI is just not lasting you long enough, you may well need to look into trying a longer lasting insulin, like Lantus or Levemir.... there are not many people who can afford to be dosing every 8hrs.... doesn't leave much time for living!

For sure that dose of 3u is too much.... look how it's knocking the BG all the way down to a low of 41 on one day... that's low.
 
Welcome Sue and Linus! You have already figured out the food and hometesting so you are way ahead. ProZinc is a good insulin.

I agree with everyone else. It is possible that the dose is too high. It can cause rebound

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

The other possibility is that his ideal dose was skipped over - we urge increases of .25 to .50.

I would encourage you to come over to the PZI forum and discuss possible dosages, see some other people's spreadsheets and join the group. It is busiest in the am and pm.
 
Welcome!

Glad you found FDMB! As you already know its the best place to be to help Linus. I would try to eliminate the dry food from his diet all together as soon as possible. There are lots of healthier treats you could use. Baxter loves Bonito flakes. They are fish skin flakes. You can find them at Asia supermarkets or even Petco has them.

I use ProZinc. At this time I can not comment on dosage. Like everyone else I want to invite you over to the ProZinc board. You will get lots of experienced help on dosing.

See you guys over in ProZinc.

Jenn & Baxter
cat_pet_icon
 
Seconding the Bonito flakes. Scout tries to stuff her whole head in the jar when I take off the lid. :)

Welcome and see ya over in PZI!

Lori
 
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