New poster Teresa was talking about

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Dragonfly229

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I'm the Newbie Teresa was talking about :) Here is our information from the Feline Health board . . .

I'm new to posting, but I've been reading your forum since Linus was diagnosed last month. I have just built a Google spreadsheet with all his numbers and will try to attach it to my signature. He is on ProZinc, currently 3 units, and his numbers are pretty much all over the place. The one thing I do notice is that he will sometimes be much lower pre-shot, as if the insulin takes 10-12 hours to kick in. He then goes right back up within an hour or two. It's hard to give that shot at the low numbers, I keep telling myself that I know he will go back up, and when he does he will need it. From what I've read, ProZinc has no residual, once it's gone, it's gone, and if I didn't give the shot earlier, it's that much longer until the next dose starts working. Is that essentially correct?

I have been testing Linus for a little under a month. How long will it take before his glucose levels will be somewhat more predictable? I plan to try to be around home to get a new curve tomorrow, the last one I did he stayed over 400 all day long before dropping to 265 at +10. I would like to see a real curve instead of all these spikes.

As far as food, we've switched from Nutro dry to all canned, primarily Merrick and Sophisticat, with Evo low carb dry for treats during shots and ear sticks. I know I'm on the right track, is there something else I should/could be doing? Thanks for any input, I've already learned so much from this site and this board.

The vet started him at 1 unit, increased to 2 after a week when numbers were still high, and then to 3 on January 25th after many emails back and forth with my testing info. I've been beginning to realize that I may be causing the spikes I'm seeing because of the dose he's getting. I was thinking of trying Dr. Hodgkins' tight regulation protocol, but I'm not sure my schedule will allow testing and shots every 8 hours. I thought maybe 2 units every 8 hours with some overlap would be better than what he is getting

Currently feeding only 3 types of Sophisticat, low carb and no by-products in the smoked trout, shrimp and fish and whitefish and salmon types, as well as the low carb Merrick flavors. He still loves dry food, I didn't think I could switch him to wet until I found exactly what flavors he really loved, and then focus on those. He gets about a can of Merrick and a can of Sophisticat a day, plus another 1/2 a big can or 1 small can if he's eaten everything and asking for more. The primary symptom was a loss of weight and body condition, that has all come back, so even with the high numbers I do see progress.

Thanks to everyone who headed out to the Feline Health board to find me and give advice. As of tonight, I'm dropping Linus to 2 units, and will give that a few days to see if things even out. I may then be able to do a curve on Wednesday.

I'm still learning and open to any information, so keep it coming!
 
I had to laugh at your subject line! :lol:

Sometimes life just gets busy and I know some of us hurry to catch what we can on the PZI board and don't check the Health board....so figured I'd give you a bit of coverage. :-D

Welcome to PZIville! cat_pet_icon

The one thing I do notice is that he will sometimes be much lower pre-shot, as if the insulin takes 10-12 hours to kick in. He then goes right back up within an hour or two.

I'm curious, when is Linus fed in relation to his testing and shots? I used to test, feed, wait a half hour then shoot. Now I do it all in about 5-10 minutes, depending on Poopy's cooperation. :lol: The reason I was given to wait the half hour was to be sure Poopy ate. Pfft. As if that was something to have to wait for! ohmygod_smile

I usually don't even test Poopy in the first 2-3 hours after his shot due to him also eating at the time as food will effect BGs within 30 minutes to a couple hours. At 4 hours after eating, I can be reasonably sure the BG is not too food related. I say not too related because Poopy and his civvie sister tend to snack on and off all day so food is almost always present, just not as much as the initial gluttony over fresh servings. :lol:

In other words, knowing how and when food is present will help to understand the BGs we get. :smile:

Be sure to ask any questions you have. You've found a great resource! And if you ever need immediate help, do not hesitate to also post on Health. :-D
 
On another note...

Currently feeding only 3 types of Sophisticat, low carb and no by-products in the smoked trout, shrimp and fish and whitefish and salmon types, as well as the low carb Merrick flavors.

If Linus is now switched to wet, you may want to introduce other flavors not specifically seafood based. Seafood tends to not be a good choice to feed often, but is fantastic to get our dry food junkies over to wet. :lol: Most wet may have fish in them, but aren't the main ingredient - and that's ok. :smile: We just want to limit the main ingredient being seafood for daily feeding.

Let us know how we can help you help Linus. :-D
 
I posted on your Health thread but you are much more likely to get dosing advice here. As I said there, I think it is possible your dose is too high - that you increased too fast and by too much getting there. Lowering it would give you a good idea of whether less insulin will equal lower bgs.

If you do that, we suggest testing for ketones, just to keep him safe.
 
As far as feeding, I wish I was on a tighter schedule, but I don't know if that's possible. Weekdays, I get up, Linus is HUNGRY, I quickly feed him a half can at about 6:45, but then I need to do other things until 8:00, which is shot time. So that morning number is definitely food related, which is why it's even more confusing when it's at a lower number. We try to feed him again when the first person gets home after work/school, but that can be anytime between 4:00pm and 6:30pm. Evening shot is at 8:00pm, and then I feed him once more before bed, around 11:00.

I do try to mix in other than seafood, as I'm concerned about mercury, etc. in the fish. He loves Merrick Turducken and Southern Delight. I also have Cowboy Cookout and Surf and Turf. I also bought some cans of EVO Turkey and Chicken, which he also liked. He seems to prefer a more chunky type food to a pate style.

Thanks again, Teresa, for your welcome and help. Maybe I should have titled this topic "I am the person Teresa warned you about!" :)
 
Hi and welcome to our group.

I agree with Sue, the Prozinc website suggests a starting dose of 1 unit. You did start at that but went up to 2 units so fast.

I would start over at 1 unit and let him get used to that dose for at least a week and get a curve done during that time, test for ketones daily. Increasing by whole units at a time you could miss the right dose. The start low go slow mantra is so that we can start to see the patterns and how well that dose is working.

Especially now that you have switched over to low carb canned food. Also once you drop back down to 1 unit I would ditch the dry food even as treats, that will just keep him wanting his dry food back.

Glad you found us,

Robin
 
Eh, no warning necessary! :lol:

When Poopy was diagnosed, my vet also suggested (instructed but I take it as suggestions :lol: ) for me to double Poopy's dose from 1u 2xday to 2u 2xday. If I had, I'd still be searching for the illusive perfect dose and probably would have been dealing with hypos or numbers off the wall (kind of like your off the wall numbers).

I know we all want what is best for our kitties (why I'm still trying to fine tune Poopy's dose), and we do have a tendency to believe our vets' know best. Unfortunately, in most cases, we end up knowing more about feline diabetes than many vets. And that's ok, because whatever is best for our kitties is the way to go. :-D

It won't hurt to drop back to 1u and go slow upward. Who knows? Maybe your perfect dose is just over 1u? :-D
 
It depends on your comfort level and whether you will be around to test. Weekends are usually a good time for a change.

I would start at one unit, hold it for a few cycles, testing bgs often and testing for ketones. ketones The nice thing about ProZinc is that if you see super high numbers, you can move up by .5 and see if that changes.

I wanted you to see Sev's spreadsheet. He is one of the best examples of what can happen if a cat is on too high a dose and changes are made too fast and by too much. (Don't be alarmed by how often he tests. Sev likes to test. We don't expect any to be testing as often as he did. We are happy with preshots, nadirs and a curve on the weekend. Sev was increasing from 1 to 1.5 to 1.75 and then having to react to lower numbers. Once he got down to .5 and held that dose awhile, Kitty's numbers started to make more sense. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AopnX-7vlQSUdExMQmUtalV1ckJFNEREWjRsNDdBaHc#gid=3

Your feeding schedule also may have an influence on your numbers. Could you feed during the day and overnight so he is not starving in the early morning/evening? Then maybe a tiny snack might hold him until you can test. If there is any way you can test, feed and then shoot, that is ideal. ECID but in some cats, feeding can influence the numbers for 2 hours after the food. There are lots of low carb treats - some are kind of crunchy which is often helpful. Bonito flakes and PureBites are popular at my house. Lo carb treats

Lots of us use automatic feeders and freeze the wet food to accomplish the overnight/daytime feedings. There are some cats who do better free feeding; the idea is that food can support the pancreas. It is however, an Every Cat is Different thing.
 
One more question, and then I'll leave you guys alone for a while. I'm headed to Walmart later for supplies. Would standard syringes (I have u40 syringes from the vet) be easier to figure out these small increases? With what I have, it's going to be a guess at best.
 
Walmart sells U100 syringes with half unit markings. Those half unit markings make small dosing much easier.

The UPC code on the short needle is 6 81131 31179 3

The UPC code on the long needle is 6 81131 31167 0

Be sure to print out the conversion chart and hang it where you draw the insulin to make sure your doses are correct.

PS: Please don't ever leave us alone for a while.
 
Short or long needles is personal preference. How thick and fatty is his skin? How easy is it to tent the skin, how much of a cave opening do you get in the tent?

I prefered the short needles but was having problems with absorbsion so I ended up using the long needles.
 
The ones I have now are about 1/2 inch, I'm assuming that's short? His skin is pretty loose, I've been grabbing his side and pulling up and then rolling my hand to pull it tight, if that makes any sense.
 
That makes sense. Are you shooting into the tent at a 45 degree angle? That helps to prevent furshots.

1/2" is a long needle the short ones are 5/16".
 
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