New, overwhelmed -info overload!!

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Luck217

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Hello, my name is Liz I'm 29 and my baby Alvin is 11. We live in Orlando, Fl and he was diagnosed on 11/18/11. Got him and his brother at 2 weeks old when they were left in a cardboard box at a service station near New Smyrna Beach, the two sweetest boys in the world. I have so many questions I don't even know where to start! I feel like my brain is about to explode, I have ZERO experience with diabetes and I've been naive to feline nutrition. I'll start with what I know for certain thus far.

~Alvin is 11, and began rapid weight loss in the middle of October, his eating habits fell off and water was the only thing he wanted. I was in the hospital for an appendectomy/blood infection for a week and half and on bed rest for the following week and now have more complications so I wish I could have gotten him in to the Vet sooner. Thursday the 18th the Dr's seemed very "confused" and told me his BG was normal, and they thought he was either showing signs of kidney failure or had a thyroid problem. Sent me home with an appetite stimulant and said they would call with all lab results. Called me in the evening to say "the lab equipment had malfunctioned" and he was diabetic with a BG of 493! "Come back first thing in the am" they say. Exhausted and upset return to the vet shown how to blood test/administer insulin and not given very much info. Told to buy prescription DRY food and sent home $500 later. Start my own research, eyes burning.

Readings thus far seem much better than the intial 493
11/19 am-289 pm-232
11/20 am-284 pm-240 I also did a "+6" test on this day and got 224, should I do that everyday for a while?
11/21 am-242

We are giving 1 unit of ProZinc after am/pm testing per the vet. He said to wait 7 days to perform a curve, which I will do b/c they already took all my extra income for the month. Also giving Renal K+ once daily due to potassium in blood was so low, and 1 tablet a day of Tapazole for his thyroid.

I purchased a glucometer right away at Wal-Mart in a hurry under stress and went a little overboard on price and now I'm kicking myself. $65 for 50 test strips!! I had no idea what I was doing, so now I know better. I got the freestyle freedom lite with the butterflies on the strips b/c thats what the vet had so I figured I couldn't go wrong. Does anyone else use this meter? The vet said a human meter would be "off" by a few points for a feline. How do I know how "off" it is?? Do I add to his BG or subtract? When his was 289 my non-diabetic's was only 45! I tested myself as well to make sure it was accurate and I got a fasting 76.

This has me super upset, the vet sent me home with Hill's W/D DRY food. After doing research I've come to find out he might be dyslexic since it should have been the M/D. Everything I've read on W/D says it's for cats who became diabetic due to being obese. I'm correct in this right? I've always had cats and these two are the only ones who have ALWAYS turned up their noses at the wet food. So after reading he should be on a high protein/low-carb WET diet I'm even more stressed out. I will go out and buy wet low carb food based on the kinds I've read to purchase and try my best with all the suggestions like parm cheese and Forti-Flora/ warming to "mouse body temp" etc. I've also always "free-fed", so I've decided since Alvin should eat right after getting insulin and not for several hours prior that my schedule would be to test at 7am/ administer if required then feed. I will leave whatever he and his brother do not consume until 1pm and then remove it. I will then do a 7pm test and feed again. That food I'll just pull up before bedtime which for me is usually pretty late b/c I work nights so they will have a few free-fed hours but he will still be hungry enough to eat after his shots. What should I do about the W/D food? I want to have dry food on hand while I attempt to transition but I don't want it to be high carb food thats bad for him! I want to call the vet and tell them to swap it out for me b/c they messed up but I would rather have someone tell me I thats a good idea first. Does everyone think my food schedule will work out? Is no food 6-7 hours prior to testing a good route or more/less?? I read that Acarbose can be given to help absorb carbs before the body does, does anyone recommend that?

I've also read alot about ketones and testing for them, my vet said NOTHING about this! It's a hospital for ONLY cats, you would think they would have this information pouring out of them by now. Should I go buy strips and do this myself? Or take him back there and demand that they test him? He lost so much weight so fast I'm worried that I may not have caught this in time, but his BG did drop dramatically even though it is all over the 200's it's under 300 and from what I've read so far so good. The vet didn't say anything about not giving him insulin if he tests under 200, I've read a few contradicting things on here. Should I not give insulin at all if that happens or just lower to 1/2 a unit? I know I'm no where close to regulated yet I'm just thinking ahead.

Why are only 50% or less prescribed ProZinc? Should I just wait it out and see if it works for a while or ask to switch the one of the others with a higher remission percentage?

What is a fructosamine test? Again no mention at vet but a pamplet they gave me says to have this tested in 3-4 weeks to test for regulation. I really hope they were just having an off day b/c I feel like they really missed alot, and they came highly recommended.

I see alot of people give EXACT ounces of food to their sugarbabies, if he is 10 pounds now how much food should I be giving him? I have two bowls but when I put them down this am withholding the food for the first time they chowed down and kept swapping bowls in between water. How will I be able to keep track ofwho is eating what? And Alvins brother Munchkin is not a diabtic but he is a little on the heavy side, is it going to be ok for him to have diabetic food?

Sorry I'm all over the place, I'm trying to organize all this information in my brain. There is so much to absorb, I really appreiciate a group like this. After reading several other posts, it put me at ease knowing I'm not alone in loosing my mind and that people have answers and can help.

Thanks for reading!
 
Hang on, Liz, and BREATHE.

You are suffering from the same overload and panic that every one of us suffered when our kitty was diagnosed with diabetes, but you have come to the right place.

You are ahead in the fact that your vet is for home testing, and your kitty is on a good insulin at a good, low dose.

People with a lot of experience will come on the board soon and start giving you clarifications. And work with you in getting all this information prioritized into what you need to do first.

Again, you are way ahead in that you are home testing already. The Freestyle is used by many, but the testing strips are very expensive. Walmart has a Relion meter that has strips for only about $20 for 50. Many people use Relion.

Welcome. and glad you have found this site. I was a newbie on 10/1/11, just as frantic as you are, and it's going to take a while for you to really absorb everything, but you now have good support from people who will really help you and your kitty.
 
Welcome Liz and extra sweet Alvin!

Now....take another breath....and another....

Now, doesn't that feel better? Right now you're exactly where you should be about now - totally confused, overloaded with information and not sure where or how to use it. You've probably read about several different insulins without realizing it, you've read about obese cats, skinny cats, wet foods, dry foods....all just adding to that huge stack of 'stuff' you've found. Believe me, that 'stack' of info teetering in your brain WILL start making sense but seems like we have to get TOTALLY confused before the light appears! You're SO close to that light switch already...hang in there, ask questions, there'll be someone to help unconfuse you.... :-D

Welcome to the sugar cat dance! BIG hugs from all our 80 fuzzy footsies....
 
1) Food: if possible you want to feed wet low-carb. It doesn't have to be prescription; there are better, cheaper options. There is a list (Binky's) of food with nutrition.breakdowns. Both kitties can eat the same food. There are some low-carb dry options (evo) if wet just won't work.but it's harder to control blood sugar on dry. The vet should take back the food they sold you-just say they won't eat it

2) Ketones: you can buy ketone strips at any pharmacy. Stick them into fresh urine (stream or you can try to catch it). Always a good idea. Given that weight loss was a symptom, I'd check. If you see anything above trace levels,.get to the.vet.

3) Testing: good show on home testing! You'll want to check prior.to giving insulin every time, and about 6 hours later when you can. This shows when it.s safe to shoot and how low kitty goes in a cycle. Don't worry about a fructosamine; it's just average blood sugar for 2 weeks and if you.re home testing, not needed. If blood sugar is.below 200, we advise.skipping a shot, at least until you know how kitty reacts to insulin.

Good luck!
 
Off to buy some ketone strips and wet food!

Alvin got so excited to eat after his shot this am that he forgot to chew and ended up vomiting everything back up. It's the first time food has ever been witheld from him in 11 years though. Does anyone think my feeding schedule is a good idea? Is witholding food right away after free feeding to sharp of a change? I figured I'd remove food 4-6 hours prior to BG testing.

I am correct in that he should have his BG tested on an empty tummy right? Then fed after insulin? I'm a little confused there.

Read some contradicting statements about letting him eat when he wants since he lost weight.

I still can't believe my vet didn't mention a thing about ketones. After reading every article I could find it seems like a given, I should print a select few out and bring them when I return the WRONG cat food he sold me. Irritated.


Sidebar:
-How do I figure out if anyone on here lives in my area?
 
Try to not let him eat for 2 hours before a test so that the BG numbers you are getting are not inflated due to eating. It doesn't have to be as much as 4-6 hours before.

You don't want him gorging himself and then vomiting, because it is important that he keeps the food down so that the insulin does not have too large an effect.

I know this is confusing for you, and also for him. He doesn't understand why all of a sudden his world is turned upside down, he doesn't see food when he expects it, and some crazy lady who looks like his Mom is all of a sudden poking him all the time with sharp things!

A diabetic cat, especially at the start of treatment when his BG is all messed up, will need to (and feel like he needs to) eat all the time. He can't process the food and get all the value from it that a non-diabetic kitty would.

You can serve him multiple small meals throughout the day and night rather than just two meals at shot time. You just don't want to let him eat a couple hours before the pre-shot tests. And keep a note of how much he eats and when because that will help you make sense of the numbers for all the tests you do during the day or night.

Carl
 
There are other members in Florida..... Post a thread in Health or Community with a subject like "Anyone Else Near Orlando?" and they will see it.

Carl
 
Just wanted to say welcome!!!
My 2 out of 3 girls eat the same...low carb wet, and raw, so I will just talk about them.
When I get up in the am, I would test Bean, feed and shoot while she was eating. I would wait until she was almost done. She is in remission right now so I do not have to do this anymore.
I put out the food for them before I even get a sip of coffee, finish my am to get ready for work, and refill right before I leave out the door. They graze on what they want during the day. I pick up anything not eaten when I get home, and repeat. They get fresh food within 20 min of me walking thru the door after work. I will refill before I go to bed. I also throw away anything not consumed during the nite. Usually, between the 2 of them, I will put out 1/2 can of Friskies & 1/2 can of f. feast....total of aprox. 8 oz when I first serve and then will add about 1/2 that amount right before bed or before I go to work, so another 4 oz.... I also feed raw food. They get about 3-6 oz a day..... I think mommy overfeeds....eeeeeeks nailbite_smile

I know until the diabeties is regulated, kitties usually want to and need to eat more.

You are miles ahead of most newbies as you are already testing and wonderful your vet suggested it, most do not or discourage against it. Great job!!!! Most will suggest not shooting if bg is 200 or under.

Bean was on PZI BCP for aprox. 6 wks before remission. I used the Relion meter from walmart and ketone sticks. We switched to low carb food and no carb treats during testing. I use petco tuna flakes and purebits chicken, Grandma Lucy lamb and venison. All 100% meat.

Keep posting often, asking questions, it will get easier - promise promise!!!
 
Sorry, I should have put all this in just one response!

I am correct in that he should have his BG tested on an empty tummy right? Then fed after insulin? I'm a little confused there
Click to expand...

The sequence should be test, then feed, then shoot.

Test first, because you need to test without the food interfering with the result.
Feed next, because you need to be sure there is food in his tummy to counteract the insulin.
Then shoot, after you see he has eaten. For now, I'd give it 15 minutes or so, to make sure he keeps it down. Once he gets used to the routine, you'll probably be able to shoot while he has his face in the bowl, and he won't even notice it. But if he wolfs it all down, and then tosses it back up, that's not good either.

Carl
 
Yes, please don't feed the W/D. This food is about the worst thing you can feed a diabetic cat, and I'm pretty sure it's what caused Bandit's diabetes to begin with. It's extremely high in carbs, and with a diabetic you want the exact opposite. Any low carb commercial canned food is ok to feed--Bandit eats Merrick's and sometimes Fancy Feast. All the the Fancy Feast "classic" flavors are low carb and they're easy to find, so that might be a good starting point.

As for feeding both cats--I think what would be easiest is to ditch all of the dry in your house, and just feed both the same low-carb commercial canned food. Then you don't have to worry about them swapping bowls. Also, it's a good idea to feed diabetics smaller portions more frequently--Bandit eats 1.5oz (about half a small can or a quarter of a medium sized can) of food 4 times a day. If you're worried about feeding them when you're not there or sleeping because the dry is gone, you can freeze portions of canned food and leave them out, or use an automatic feeder if your cats are gobblers (you'll want to get one for each cat). You'll want to make sure that your diabetic does not have any access to dry food, ever again.

As for your insulin question--Lantus or Levemir do have higher remission rates than Prozinc, but Prozinc isn't a bad insulin. I would try the Prozinc until it's time for a refill, and if you haven't seen a lot of improvement by then, then you can always switch insulins.
 
Alrighty vet said bring the W/D in and exchange for the M/D. Want to have it on hand b/c at feeding time this evening they both REFUSED the wet food I got them. Got 7 different "classics" of Fancy Feast just to give it a go(per articles on low carb inexpensive food). I also bought two flavors of the freeze dried treats and while Munchkin(non-diabetic) said "um no thanks" Alvin went bonkers for the liver/beef flavor. But refused the wet even after I pulled his remaining dry left from the am at 2pm and fed the wet at 7 pm. He won't even taste it, I warmed it put some on his gums it was an ABSOLUTE no. So skinny boy has been 5+ hours with no food, I feel so bad for him. Going to give him another hour to change his mind before I throw in the towel and give out some dry just so he can get food in his belly. However during this evenings BG testing I decided to try a pad on the rear foot as seen on a few youtube videos and I got a reading of 147! I was blown away and to make sure I pricked the poor lil guy's ear again too. Low and behold it was 40 points higher but still 187 which is below 200. So I'm skipping insulin this evening as recomended. Good call??
 
Yes, good call. Once you have done this for a while (assuming you even have to do it for a while), you will be able to shoot a number below 200. But for now, better safe.
Did you try mixing the wet and dry to see if he'll put up with the wet in order to get to the dry? M/D is "better" than W/D (13% carbs instead of 37%), but still not low enough. As long as "dry" is on the menu, his numbers will be a little higher. But right now, it is more important that he eat well than not at all.
The 40 point difference can be part meter variance (+/- 20%) or a little stress inflated because of the back to back pokes. Not a worry, both are pretty darn good numbers!

Carl
 
in regards to members in your area, you can either start a new thread with something like "anyone in Orlando?" as the subject line or you can do a search for Orlando. i just did that and came up with some names there or near

Complick8d is in Orlando
doombuggy looks to be there too
Priscillalea is 90 miles away from Orlando
jeannes is there
Kris & Motska are there
Barbara and Tuffy are there

boy, there's a lot of people in your neck of the woods :-)

you can still post the new thread or you can go to "members" in the upper right, click on that then find them in the alphabet and send them a message if you'd like or since you are new, would you like us to send them messages pointing them here for you for now until you get the lay of the board?
 
btw...........just wanted to say.......GOOOD CALL ON THE BG'S..........SOOOOOO GLAD YOU ARE TESTING THAT BABY! WHAT A GOOOOD MOMMABEAN YOU ARE \M/
 
I got 2 PMs on this thread (thanks ladies!) but am at work an unable to dedicate time to really read this thread. What I will do is send you a PM with the name of MY vet! He's on OBT and you might want to consider a change as he is familiar with diabetes (has dog & cat with it). He prescribed lantus right off the bat and Cedric went into remission in a month with the insulin and diet change. My vet is big on canned food, so Cedric had been on a diet of canned and dry for about 4 of the 5 years I have had him. check your PMs (private messages). I will be home tonight and I am also off tomorrow so will be home most of the day.
 
Crap, I had a problem sending the first long message I typed and it was lost. I have to get back to work, but did send you my #. Here's a link to my vet (note their site needs to be updated a bit).
http://kindredspiritsanimalclinic.com/
I would highly recomend them, not sure how their costs stand up to others as this is the only place I have ever gone (been here 7 years).
 
Another option for dry food while you're transitioning completely to canned is EVO dry--it's cheaper than the prescription food, has better ingredients and is lower in carbs. Someone else already posted the link to the transitioning tips page, but here it is again: http://www.catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_

Step one to transitioning (and this is the most important step!) is no longer free-feeding the dry food. Treat dry feedings the exact same way you would canned feedings--with specific portions at scheduled times. This allows a more natural hunger response for the cat, so that they'll be more willing to try different types of food. Sometimes it takes some time and patience and tricks with stubborn cats, but nearly all of them come around eventually. :smile: I'm helping a friend of a friend right now transition her cats--and the one that wouldn't touch the canned food at first is now starting to eat it because he knows he's only getting the dry twice a day--so if he wants to eat at the other two feedings he needs to eat the canned (with 4 feedings a day).

Cats are great at making us feel bad because they're so starving, but in reality they are fine, and you just gotta ignore treat the food begging with a grain of salt, no matter how sad they're acting, because they are certainly not starving. Bandit is a master at pretending he hasn't eaten in days when he was just fed an hour ago--not because he's hungry, but because he knows he might get some extra food. I know it's not real hunger, because if I'm home to watch him get fed at dinnertime, he doesn't beg for more food an hour later. But if I come home from work an hour after he's been fed, he thinks I'm a sucker because I wasn't home to see him fed. We've had to get around his trickiness by leaving notes at each feeding.
 
Yup mixed the dry in! He turned up his nose like a spoiled little child. He's never liked wet even as a kitten he hardly ate it while everyone else in the kitchen was like "yay more for me!".

I'm not going to give up, just make sure he has food to eat cause he's such a tiny lil guy now. I'll keep on with the transition, we did only try one flavor of food maybe he's a chicken lover. I've read several documents on it, I understand it takes alot of patience to transition.

-His am BG is 279 today which is pretty consistant with all am tests so far, are numbers always generally higher in the am than pm?

Thanks for all the help looking up people in my area, I've already polled all my friends via facebook and I can't believe no one has any experience with diabetic kitties.

-I'm still a little concerned on the varience with the glucose meter. If there is a 40 point varience from paw to ear what if I give him insulin say he tests 220? But it's really 180? I guess I'll just tread very cautious in the beginning here. Especially since the vet wasn't very imformative.

-Do most people use the ear for testing BG? B/c I gave the paw pad a go since he loves to lie in my lap upside down and he didn't flinch, budge or get upset. With his ear he throws a minor tantrum, and I'm just curious if the paw is typically consistant. He does not flinch for the injections either, just those ears. The only cat I've ever had who hates his ears scratched, he slaps your hand and pulls it down to rub his neck instead.

Thanks again for everyones help, you are all amazing!
 
Actually those reading aren't really that far apart given the fact that all meters have a +/- of 20%

So if you look at it this way.

180 + 20% =216
220-20% = 176

You can see both numbers are within the variance allowed with all meters.

I know there are some folks here that test on the paws for various reasons, while most of us use the ears, the only thing with using the paw pad is to watch out that it doesn't get infected because of litter box use. Personally, I don't think it is as important where you are testing as much as that you are testing. If testing on the paw pad is easier and stress you both out less then go for it.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
I test Cedric on his ear (once every week or two now). Never tried the paw but I have a co-worker who has a black diabetic cat & that is where she goes (note she doesn't do it every time, and that what concerns me). When I prick Cedric with the 28 gague lancet, I heat his ear first with a heating pad from a toy of his. He doesn't like it but he tolerates it...
 
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