New - my old boy is diabetic :(

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Mudge

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Mudge is 16.5 y old, and he seems to have aged a lot over the past year. I had been noticing that he was having difficulty jumping but attributed it to arthritis. When he began walking on his hocks,I had him tested and he is diabetic. The vet did a geriatric panel and urinalysis, and a fructosamine test to confirm. All results were high but I don't have the numbers. He also discovered that his eyesight has deteriorated and he has very limited vision. He gets around very well, aside from not being able to jump.

Due to the fact that I am going to be away for the month of December and Mudge will have a sitter, and the fact that there is a shortage of the insulin that my vet prefers, we decided to try controlling his diet until January and see how he does. He had been eating dry food exclusively (Iams). The vet recommended DM and I have really tried to get him to eat it - but he just doesn't like it - even mixed 50/50 with another food. Discovered this site and tried some alternate foods - EVO, Wellness...he's not crazy about them but will eat them, particularly if I vary the flavours. He does like Fancy Feast. He doesn't eat a lot in a day; how much should he be eating? He weighs 14 lbs, hasn't varied much from that over they years - he was never overweight. He isn't very active so I assume he doesn't need a lot, but I have no idea how much I should expect him to eat in a day. Have been trying to get him to eat twice a day because the vet said he would get insulin twice a day and given what I know about blood glucose ( I am a biologist and actually teach endocrinology) I wouldn't want to inject him if he hadn't eaten. (I know a lot of theory but haven't ever dealt with a diabetic cat, as you have!)

My vet said there is no point in home testing and it doesn't work well, but that just didn't make sense to me, so I got a glucometer and started testing him periodically. In the past week, the highest number I've seen was 187 an hour after eating, and other random numbers have been in the range 108-158. Much higher than my other cats, but according to this site, not outrageous and from what I've been reading most wouldn't give their cat insulin with those numbers, is that correct??

I found some freeze-dried fish treats, and he loves them. Does anyone else use these, is it okay to give him a treat? It is really useful when I am doing his testing to reward him.

Thanks for any advice/encouragement you can offer!
Rosemarie
 
Rosemarie,

Welcome to you and your sweet Mudge! You are in the right place to get all of your questions answered. Unfortunately, I'm a relative newbie and don't have many answers to give. But I'm sure more experienced people will be along to help you shortly. Since you have found this forum, please know you will never be alone on this journey through feline diabetes.

On the treats issue, if it is purely fish, it should be carb-free. Most of us will always give a treat at testing time. As you have noticed, it makes the poke go easier. There are also freeze-dried chicken bits and liver that are carb-free. If you buy the ones packaged for dogs, it's the same product, but much cheaper.

Again welcome. You can breathe now.
 
Welcome to you and Mudge.

You are way ahead since you are testing. A previous post told you about the freeze dried treats being fine. You will want to try to have Mudge on a low carbohydrate wet food diet. Since he is used to Fancy Feast, you could make sure you keep to the Classic flavors.....those are all under 10% carbs, and it is recommended to stay well under 10% carbs. Here is a link to a great food list, that shows the carbs for various foods. http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm

You can go ahead and feed Mudge more often than twice a day if he is used to eating more than twice a day. In fact, most of the people on this board with lots of experience tell you that small meals during the day are actually beneficial in controlling diabetes.

I, too, am a Newbie....my "old boy" (13) was diagnosed 10/1/11, and was put on insulin (ProZinc). We changed to the lowcarb wet food at the same time, and my kitty was off of insulin in a month, and his BG is remaining in the normal zone with the continuted lowcarb wet.

The more experienced will be coming on with valuable information. Ask any questions you think of....you will have plenty of support from the good people here.
 
Hi and welcome :)

Those numbers you are seeing are actually pretty good considering, so yeah, you are right to question giving insulin and you were definitely right to start hometesting! My suggestion would be to give him a canned diet low in carbs and moderate in protein but that he'll eat...Purina DM is nothing special and is full of less than optimal ingredients..you can give foods with muscle meat instead of all liver and acheive good results AND serve something your boy will eat.

My suggestion is to find foods he'll eat immediately, keep on testing blood glucose levels at home, test for urine ketones at home and monitor how things go before you go.

The next part is tricky because if for some reason blood glucose levels go up while you are gone, he's at risk for complications like diabetic ketoacidosis and liver issues. Monitoring urine glucose levels prior to going might help establish a baseline for your sitter to use, and if urine levels go up and/or clinical symptoms (increased drinking/increased urine output/bad fur condition/etc.) present then you might need to have a back up plan like insulin in the house.

What do you think???

Jen
 
Hi!

I'm in the same boat! 13 yo diagnosed recently and I'm new.... however his levels were 500 before changing diet, and 400-300 after diet controlled. Now with insulin he is controlled in the 50-200 range!

I was in the exact same boat! He got diagnosed RIGHT before I left for a month, so I changed diet while I was away, it did help but not perfect.... He was WAY higher than your cat too, so I bet you'll be fine on diet control while you are gone, especially with those numbers I wouldn't worry. Lucky for us cats are very resiliant to BG changes compared to humans or other species.

however
"My vet said there is no point in home testing and it doesn't work well, but that just didn't make sense to me, so I got a glucometer and started testing him periodically. In the past week, the highest number I've seen was 187 an hour after eating, and other random numbers have been in the range 108-158. Much higher than my other cats, but according to this site, not outrageous and from what I've been reading most wouldn't give their cat insulin with those numbers, is that correct??

I found some freeze-dried fish treats, and he loves them. Does anyone else use these, is it okay to give him a treat? It is really useful when I am doing his testing to reward him. "

HOME TESTING WORKS AMAZING. You are doing great, ignore your vet on this point. Mine didn't endorse home testing either and if were not for home testing and I had blindly followed her advice Cello would be on a terrible insulin and I would have overdosed him for sure since he responded REALLY well and REALLY fast to insulin.

As for the numbers you are getting.... they are really close to normal. I actually never ever give my cat insulin if he is 150 or less. That is still a "normal" range (100-150), so it sounds like home testing will be critical for your cat. Also it is pretty likely with those numbers that a full diet change will control his diabetes, but wait to hear from more experts on that note (I am by no means an expert, but a very good sign).

Freeze dried meat treats are perfect! Almost all protein and def. helps with the testing procedure.

You're doing great! and welcome!
 
Thanks everyone, certainly makes me feel better!! Much better than the common reaction which is "why don't you just have him put down, he's old anyway".
Jen, the problem with urine testing is that he likes his privacy. I have only observed him peeing a couple of times in his life. When we need urine test the vet usually has to take it from his bladder. I don't think the sitter will be able to get a urine sample to test ...all I can do is get her to check on his condition twice a day and hope for the best :( I contemplated boarding him but I think he does a lot better at home, he gets sooo stressed if you disrupt his routine.
I am concerned that he isn't eating enough, he hasn't had dry food at all for a couple of weeks and he doesn't seem to eat a lot of canned food. I would like to have some sort of regular feeding routine established before I have to leave in 3 weeks. I have bought lots of different varieties of low carb foods, and so far the one he likes best is EVO duck, but he won't always eat it. I guess I'll just keep trying.
Thanks for the encouragement and thoughts!
Rosemarie
 
He definitely needs to eat. Thare should be people coming on who can give you tips about transitioning from dry to wet. But, especially since you will be gone, and have a sitter come by, it would likely be best to make sure the food he is going to have available is food he will eat. EVO has a dry that is pretty low in carbs.

Again, people more experienced people should be able to give you some more help on that.
 
Try warming up the food in the microwave a bit before you feed, makes it smell stronger. Or if he loves the freeze dried treats, push them into the wet food and it'll get the taste in his mouth and hopefully he likes it. Have some other tricks if those don't work. If he likes the fancy feast just go with it and don't worry about the other foods, try mixing the fish flavours (they like these better) with the meat flavours to make it more enticing at first as well!! At that age if you can get him eating 5-7oz a day that should be pretty good I would think. Cello is 13, ~14 lbs and only eats this much. I did both of these things with cello to get him eating the fancy feast and DM. Same with my other cat who I switched onto this diet as well.
 
A trick for urine ketone testing:
Start with a clean box and acquarium gravel - its non-absorbent.
Cats typically eliminate within roughly 20 minutes or so after eating.
Shove gravel to one side, tilt pan, dip strip, compare to colors on container.

For this to work, you must have a clean box and litter, or it will be contaminated by previous products.

Another option is to place plastic wrap over regular litter and hope it will catch some puddles which may be tested.
 
Good for you for deciding against vet comments to home test. The first lesson you should know in my opinion is to ALWAYS question what your vet tells you. We have a tendency to think that they know everything but they cannot be experts in all disease in all animals (which is what they are expected to be), and more importantly, in the day to day treatment of chronic diseases. I learned the hard way through my two cats that I was often 'right' and knew my cat better than any vet every did.

The good news for you--my soulkitty Fred was diagnosed at 15 with Db. He lived for 5 years. Thanks to this site, I never once gave him insulin without blood testing him first-for 5 years. He never had a hypo either--until the week of his death. He also had heart disease and kidney disease in the last few years and with ALL 3 disease there were many instances where I challenged the vets treatment recs--and in doing so--saved my cat's life, or at least improved the quality of it.

For example, with the kidney disease, the vet recommended using huge 18 gauge needles to give him subQ fluids, I insisted on a smaller needle--like as small as an insulin needed. I ended up experimenting going down in size until I settled on 25 and 26 gauge needle--and Fred never got a lump of fluid under his skin and it was a pleasant experience for him. The vet and vet techs at the office insisted that I didn't need to do this and it would be too slow (only another 10 minutes or so, no biggie if it made Fred feel better.) Also, from info on this and other sites, I refused to put him on renal food--low protein--for 6 years of having kidney disease. He declined very very slowly and actually in the last year his kidney values improved. So, don't be afraid to say 'no' to what your vet recommends.

Fred was put on 4 heart meds after he was diagnosed with heart failure and CHM at 19 1/2 yrs old--and that heart failure was TRIGGERED by the subQ fluids because THE VET NEVER TOLD ME THAT IF HE HAD UNDERLYING HEART DISEASE HE SHOULD NOT GET FLUIDS. He never recommened that I test him with a cardiac echcocardiogram first to see--I would have had I known!! So after 6 months of fluids where at first he was improved, but then he started getting limp in the legs right after fluids--and the vet disputed that the fulids were the cuase--and THEY WERE--he finally got fluid in the lungs from the subQ fluids--which led to the heart failure and an open-mouth breathing episdoe. They aspirated his lungs and he was GREAT for one week on NO fluids and no drugs. But then they gave the prescription for the heart condition--4 heart drugs. The second day on the drugs he did not move for 10 hours. I knew something was up. Two of those drugs were bad for his kidneys. I questioned the vet, he got mad at me and said it was standard procedure and the consultant cardiologist had prescribed these drugs. I went ahead and took him off one of them on my own (after researching it), and was iffy about another...I went to a second cardiologist and got a new ultrasound. Fred's CHM had been improved--since his lungs had been aspriated and he was no longer getting subQ fluids the fluids in the lung never came back and his heart condition was changed to 'mild' rather than 'moderate'..and the cardiologist said that there was NO PROOF that several of these drugs actually did anything, there were more precautionary and 'standard operating procedure'. He agreed that it would be better to be ultra conservative with a 19 year old cat and took him off 3 of the 4 drugs Only kept him on Plavix for potential blood clots. Fred lived for another 10 minutes with kidney, heart diseases and diabetes and on only 1 drugs and no kidney food and no subQ fluids. (I did do things like phosphorus binder in his food and pepsid a/c for nausea). anyway, the morale is: research and question anything your vet tells you. Often you will learn more and get better advice from the people on the varous cat-disease web forums who are dealing with this stuff daily and for years.

Your numbers are GREAT. And you are right to shun the DM and also to give him the good canned stuff. If he gets hungry enough he'll learn to love them!
 
cellosmom said:
Try warming up the food in the microwave a bit before you feed, makes it smell stronger. Or if he loves the freeze dried treats, push them into the wet food and it'll get the taste in his mouth and hopefully he likes it. Have some other tricks if those don't work. If he likes the fancy feast just go with it and don't worry about the other foods, try mixing the fish flavours (they like these better) with the meat flavours to make it more enticing at first as well!! At that age if you can get him eating 5-7oz a day that should be pretty good I would think. Cello is 13, ~14 lbs and only eats this much. I did both of these things with cello to get him eating the fancy feast and DM. Same with my other cat who I switched onto this diet as well.
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I've tried warming the food up a bit, mixing some of the freeze-dried fish in, adding some low-sodium chicken broth, adding some water from canned tuna...mixing it with a fish flavoured Fancy Feast that he likes - and with any of these tricks, even if he hasn't eaten for 12 hours and I know he's hungry, he is just not going to eat the DM. He is doing pretty well today eating Fancy Feast so that may just be the way I have to go. He still only eats a couple of tablespoons at most at a time.

Good to know how much Cello eats, so I know a cat of his size is okay with that much food :) Thank you!

Since the switch from dry to wet food, Mudge has lost about 1/2 pound. That's probably okay as long as it isn't a trend.
 
Martica and Fred said:
Good for you for deciding against vet comments to home test. The first lesson you should know in my opinion is to ALWAYS question what your vet tells you.
I don't have a problem questioning what he says.. I was just feeling a bit shocked at first and needed to get a bit more educated about it all. Next time I will come armed with information... Wow, you went through a lot with your boy! That is encouraging that he lived so long.
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Cello lost close to 1 lb during the food change (15.7 - 14.5) but has stabilized now, he is a big cat but the weight loss didn't hurt him.
 
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