New Members: Katie and Bebe

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Katie Richmond

Katie Richmond

Member Since 2022
Hello all,
I’m glad to have the support of this group, and I have already been reading here and posting on the Facebook group. For the last year, I have been socializing, a pair of feral barn cats named Bebe and Boo. Shortly after I was able to bring them in and handle them, we realized Bebe was losing weight but we were still in the socialization process. I wasn’t able to get her to a vet right away. When I first took her to my local vet, she was jaundiced and had no appetite. They sent her home with fluids and liver support medication and a dose of antibiotics. She absolutely crashed over the next few days, so we took her to the ICU, where she was diagnosed DKA, severely anemic and diabetic. She was extremely critical, but bounced back well, and was able to come home after four nights.
She was initially on 1 unit of Lantus, and I was told to feed her Hills ID twice a day. She is currently eating 25% more each meal to make up for her weight loss. We did her first curve at the vet last week and she was between 632 and 400 during her stay, at this point, we were advised to move to 1.5 units and get her on to a lower carb food then the ID.
I got a glucometer a few days ago, and we are just starting to get comfortable with home testing. Biggest challenge I am having is that she is so ravenous and hyperactive directly before her next dose is due that I have not been able to get a value until after she has eaten and had her insulin.
I am currently feeding her Wellness complete health. Her numbers have come down since the vet visit, but with the combined factors of stress from the visit, change of food, new dose, and calibrating to the new glucometer, it’s hard to know what’s what.

The main thing stressing me out if how hungry she is all day. She cries continuously and is quite frantic.
Our first few home tests are here (first row are the numbers from the vet curve).

Any advice is welcome as we are very much still getting this under our belts. Thank you in advance.

Katie and Bebe
(I was sharing her story on TikTok before we knew she was diabetic. You can meet Bebe and Boo here: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR9v79s7/
 
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Wanted to mention she is also on a long dose of clindamycin and veraflox for a suspected gall bladder infection and indeterminate cause for her severe anemia (she received two transfusions in ICU).
 
Hi and welcome to the group! You are a kind and generous person to take Bebe in.

Unregulated diabetic felines are often ravenous because their bodies cannot effectively make use of the food they are eating. So they eat and eat but stay hungry. This also leads to weight loss.

It is ok to give a little low carb snack and then test if you need to do something to get kitty to settle down enough so you can get a blood drop. A small low-carb snack should not influence the blood glucose value much at all, and usually not for about 15-20 minutes. So if you give a few bites of food and then test immediately the number should be a valid one that is not food-influenced. ( some even manage to do it while kitty has their head in the bowl)

Also, ditch that old fashioned and outdated "only feed twice a day!" bullcrap. Especially for a kitty that was recently in DKA, you want to be feeding extra food and 3-4 times a day is totally fine. Just make sure there is no food available for the 2 hour period before you do a pre-shot test.

The folks here are amazing and they helped me and my boy Hendrick so much. It is a debt I will never be able to repay in full. (dammit where's that tissue box @Diane Tyler's Mom )

They are very numbers driven, for the experts here to be able to help you and Bebe, you'll need to do a few things -- set up a spreadsheet, get your signature setup, and continue to ask questions questions questions!

See this link: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
 
Welcome Katie you have definitely landed in the right place. Like Kyle said the members here are amazing and with their advice I got Tyler in remission
When I tap on the tests you have I can't see it so if you can set up your signature and our spreadsheet that would be great
I'm glad Bebe is in lantus
Do you have the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings?
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time. We don't adjust the dose by the pre shots ,we adjust it by how low the dose is taking them

Most of us feed our cats bigger meals in the AM and PM right after you check the BG number and them some smaller meals around @+2 , and @+4 ( this means how many hours after you give the insulin
If you can fill out what we call our signature that will be helpful,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine


We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

Here is the link for the spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

Also here is the food chart ,we like to feed 6% carbs and under
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
 
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Do you have your hypo kit in case Bebe drops too low
Do you have any med and high carb wet food and some honey?
Such as

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods
And some honey in the house

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.
 
Thank you - yes, I've already read through all the starter guides on feeding, testing, hypo emergencies and everything. I set up her spreadsheet and published, but I think one of the settings was wrong. I've corrected it now and added to my signature, so hopefully this response will have it listed. She's eating wellness complete health chicken which is listed as 4% on the chart.

I have been testing at different times throughout the day, trying to assemble a curve over a few days. We weren't getting enough blood for the first couple of days, but we are starting to get into a rhythm now. She's been a littel all over the map still. I have also struggled to give her shots exactly 12 hours apart. I have a few other special needs animals that need medications early and late at night, and my sleep schedule has been very disrupted trying to balance everyone's care. (We have a rescue cat with megacolon as well, a dog with a brain tumor, and we just lost our 18-year-old CKD/thyroid baby last week.) The vets had stressed to feed her only twice a day and to give the shots only after she had finished a complete meal, though I see a lot of folks here break up feeding. We'll get on a better schedule as everything settles this week.

I imagine our spreadsheet is still a little sparse to make strong recommendations.
 
wow you're doing great for only just starting out. Most people's spreadsheets have far less data! Great job! That being said, one of the things that is recommended is always always get AMPS and PMPS (test before you shoot) so you know it is safe to give the insulin. Then in addition to the pre-shot tests, it is good to get a test a few hours later, +2 or +3, if you can. Especially in the evening cycle because diabetic kitties tend to have lower blood glucose at night.

But don't get me wrong, what you're doing is perfect by building a curve by testing at different times on different days, that is really impressive!

Sorry to hear about your 18-year-old, that sounds tough and megacolon is no joke. You guys have been through a lot.
 
Thanks @Hendrick Cuddleclaw. I was initially writing in because she's been so wild and crazy that getting the AMPS and PMPS has literally been impossible. She runs around like a chicken with her head cut off from her hunger. But today I tried giving her a snack and tested immediately after she finished.

If I break up the meal as @Diane Tyler's Mom suggested (+2 and +4), is there a general rule about the percentage to serve? I.E, if I was instructed to feed her 120 grams 2x a day, should I give her 60 grams before her shot and then 30 grams at +2 and +4?

Thanks for helping out so much!

And I appreciate your kind words. It's hard to lose a pet no matter their age, but at 18, that boy had been around for so many chapters of my life. It's the end of an era, to be sure. Miss him terribly.
 
@Katie Richmond
Great job setting up your signature and SS already
You're doing a great job with all that you have do taking care of your furkids .
I'm sorry so about your 18 year old :( I also lost Tyler's brother to CKD.
I'm sorry but I don't understand grams when it comes to feeding
The rule of thumb for ideal weight is 20 x what Bebe's ideal weight should be
but since she was DKA this Oct I'm going to tag Bron for you about the amount of food to feed
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

Have you read the 2 dosing methods for lantus they will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed , I'll give you the link
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/


You can give any freeze dried treats they are all low carb
Tap on this blue link and read post #64 the post numbers are to the right of each post and you can read about the freeze dried treats I listed

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-to-this-i-need-advice.269452/#post-3007388

Do you have the U-100 syringes with the half inch markings?
 
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Katie Richmond said:
Hello all,
I’m glad to have the support of this group, and I have already been reading here and posting on the Facebook group. For the last year, I have been socializing, a pair of feral barn cats named Bebe and Boo. Shortly after I was able to bring them in and handle them, we realized Bebe was losing weight but we were still in the socialization process. I wasn’t able to get her to a vet right away. When I first took her to my local vet, she was jaundiced and had no appetite. They sent her home with fluids and liver support medication and a dose of antibiotics. She absolutely crashed over the next few days, so we took her to the ICU, where she was diagnosed DKA, severely anemic and diabetic. She was extremely critical, but bounced back well, and was able to come home after four nights.
She was initially on 1 unit of Lantus, and I was told to feed her Hills ID twice a day. She is currently eating 25% more each meal to make up for her weight loss. We did her first curve at the vet last week and she was between 632 and 400 during her stay, at this point, we were advised to move to 1.5 units and get her on to a lower carb food then the ID.
I got a glucometer a few days ago, and we are just starting to get comfortable with home testing. Biggest challenge I am having is that she is so ravenous and hyperactive directly before her next dose is due that I have not been able to get a value until after she has eaten and had her insulin.
I am currently feeding her Wellness complete health. Her numbers have come down since the vet visit, but with the combined factors of stress from the visit, change of food, new dose, and calibrating to the new glucometer, it’s hard to know what’s what.

The main thing stressing me out if how hungry she is all day. She cries continuously and is quite frantic.
Our first few home tests are here (first row are the numbers from the vet curve).

Any advice is welcome as we are very much still getting this under our belts. Thank you in advance.

Katie and Bebe
(I was sharing her story on TikTok before we knew she was diabetic. You can meet Bebe and Boo here: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR9v79s7/
Click to expand...
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Hi Bron can you also read post 7 and 9
Thanks Bron
 
Hi Katie and Bebe and welcome to the forum,
With recent DKA kitties we need to make sure they are:
  • Getting enough insulin…so don’t skip any doses. If you find the preshot is lower than normal..stall, dont feed and test again in 20 minutes to see if the BGis rising. And post and ask for help. Try and get some pm cycle tests in if you can. Looking at the SS for last night and this morning, I would say that Bebe dropped lower last night and is bouncing up this morning.
  • Feed I and a half times as many calories as normal. So lots of snacks during the cycles except for the 2 hours before the preshot BG so the BG not food influenced. As Bebe is crying out for food and is underweight, I would let her eat as much as she wants at the moment. Food helps stop ketones developing.
  • Test daily for ketones in the urine. A daily ketone test tells us if Bebe is getting enough food, water and enough insulin. If you are not already doing this, I would highly recommend you go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and follow the directions on the bottle. There should be no ketones in the urine. If you could put the result of the ketones test in the remarks column of the SS that would be very helpful.
  • Add a teaspoon of warm water to each snack, if Bebe will eat it like that, to get in extra fluids.
Post daily with Bebe’s progress so we can help you
Bron
 
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Thanks so much for your note. A few responses:

  • I have ordered ketostix, but they are due to arrive tomorrow (I live remotely so everything is a slog). She did not have ketones in her urine during her vet curve last week, though her BG was very high.
  • She’s running high tonight. I ran out of accu-check strips at the pmps, so I took a test with both the last accu and an alpha track. Alpha read 442, and at pm +2, it’s at 311. I understand the shape of the curve is what we’re focusing on, but I also understood that alpha is more accurate. I’m concerned she was that high tonight.
  • I’m not sure I fully understand bouncing. Could you direct me to the best resource for how this works?
Thank you!
 
Information on bouncing which is vey normal especially in newly diagnosed cats
From the Basics on the Lantus forum:
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
You wil find lots of information in the following links
THE BASICS-new to the group

HELP US HELP YOU

That is good there were no ketones a week ago. I’m glad you have ordered the Ketostix.
The accuchek meter is just as good as the alphatrack meter and is a lot cheaper to run.
If she is bouncing, which I think she is from a probable low BG last night…she could stay in higher numbers for up to 6 cycles. Just keep feeding her lots, making sure she drinks fluids d testing for ketones which the Ketostix arrives.
 
Hi Katie!

welcome and omg you have such a huge heart taking care of all these special needs animals. Bless your heart!!

I second what everyone said about feeding smaller meals throughout the day. As already mentioned, unregulated diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in food well so they eat but are still starving and need more calories. They also burn calories just by peeing since there’s sugar in their urine. Twice a day works for dogs but it’s old fashioned advice for cats. Smaller meals throughout the day are also easier on their pancreas.

Minnie also needed to eat first. She was used all her life to having food as soon as I was up and I also had to feed her brother Bobo so I couldn’t feed one without feeding the other. I’d have all the testing supplies ready the night before on the kitchen counter. Then I’d feed her. While she was eating, I’d nuke the sock to warm up her ear. When she was done, I’d literally within less than 5 minutes get her tested. It always worked fine because the food hasn’t had time to get digested within those first 5-10 minutes.
 
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