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Jennifer & Oliver

Jennifer & Oliver

Member Since 2023
Hi all. In early December 2023 I wanted to adopt a cat that was having a difficult time being adopted. I found Oliver at my local animal shelter. Oliver had been surrendered to shelter in March 2023 by his owner because he became diabetic. The vet at the shelter gave us some donated Basalgar and Lantus to help us start taking care of him. We are using the freestyle Libre3 right now and his glucose levels are still pretty high. We currently feed him Evangers complete fish meal and/or their complete chicken meal. He eats about 4 ounces twice daily. His pre-shot glucose is now about 250-300ish and we give him 4 units of Basalgar twice daily. We just had the vet call in a new prescription for lantus as I’m not quite sure of how this donated Basalgar was taken care of prior to being donated to shelter and I really want to know that I’m giving him lantus that is not effective. I’m a nurse so I’m well versed with diabetes in general, have no problems giving shots or getting blood tests from his ear. He’s not thrilled with frequent testing. The world of feline diabetes though is different then humans with certain aspects. I’m hoping to get his glucose stable and then hopefully he will not be symptomatic anymore. He is definitely PU/PD. Thank you in advance for any advice or suggestions on how to better care for Oliver
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I would love to share a picture of my gorgeous little man but I’m not sure if or how to do that here! Thanks again!!
 
Welcome to FDMB!

I think you'll find there's a considerable overlap between treating feline diabetes and human diabetes. Your nursing background is a huge asset.

This is a link to the Lantus forum. I'd encourage you to read over the sticky notes at the top of the forum. There is also information on setting up a spreadsheet in those notes. The spreadsheet will allow you to track Oliver's progress and allow us to follow along. We are very numbers oriented and you will be able to chose an option for dosing methods to help you best manage Oliver's diabetes.

I couldn't find the variety of Evanger's that you're feeding Oliver. Are you sure that it's low in carbohydrates? We consider low carb as under 10% although most members feed their cat food that is somewhere in the neighborhood of 5%. We likewise recommend a canned food diet. The carb content is not listed on cat food labels. You may need to search the web for a cat food carbohydrate calculator and plug the numbers from the can into the calculator. This is a link to a food chart that contains nutritional information, including % carbs, for most of the canned cat food available in the US.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Welcome to FDMB!

I think you'll find there's a considerable overlap between treating feline diabetes and human diabetes. Your nursing background is a huge asset.

This is a link to the Lantus forum. I'd encourage you to read over the sticky notes at the top of the forum. There is also information on setting up a spreadsheet in those notes. The spreadsheet will allow you to track Oliver's progress and allow us to follow along. We are very numbers oriented and you will be able to chose an option for dosing methods to help you best manage Oliver's diabetes.

I couldn't find the variety of Evanger's that you're feeding Oliver. Are you sure that it's low in carbohydrates? We consider low carb as under 10% although most members feed their cat food that is somewhere in the neighborhood of 5%. We likewise recommend a canned food diet. The carb content is not listed on cat food labels. You may need to search the web for a cat food carbohydrate calculator and plug the numbers from the can into the calculator. This is a link to a food chart that contains nutritional information, including % carbs, for most of the canned cat food available in the US.
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The Evangers going fishin and chicken lickin complete balanced diet canned foods are actually very low in carbs, have limited ingredients and considering all of that are pretty inexpensive. When using the carb calculator they both come in with 2%. My vet told me I should be feeding a diabetic prescription wet food which has more carbs and is much more expensive and I have chosen not to follow those directions. I’m also considering making a homemade cat food that I found on catinfo.org. I will take your recommendation and look over the information on the lantus forum. Thanks for replying. Oliver and I appreciate it. Oh and I just figured out I can add his photo as my profile pic
 
If you are considering making your own food, the recipe on the site you noted is great! There are also pre-mixes that contain all of the supplements necessary for a complete diet. Many of us use EZComplete. It saves running around to find all of the various supplements.
 
Good instincts for ignoring your vets advice to feed prescription foods. They are high in carbs and nothing special about them but the price.

I’d recommend feeding the 2 main meals around shot times but also 3-4 smaller meals or snack throughout the day. It’s easier on their pancreas and it helps avoid big sugar spikes. You can do smaller amounts of the same food or low carb treats like any freeze dried treats. It’s good to leave out something overnight as cats tend to go lower then.

lastly, thank you and bless your heart for adopting and adopting an older diabetic cat!!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Good instincts for ignoring your vets advice to feed prescription foods. They are high in carbs and nothing special about them but the price.

I’d recommend feeding the 2 main meals around shot times but also 3-4 smaller meals or snack throughout the day. It’s easier on their pancreas and it helps avoid big sugar spikes. You can do smaller amounts of the same food or low carb treats like any freeze dried treats. It’s good to leave out something overnight as cats tend to go lower then.

lastly, thank you and bless your heart for adopting and adopting an older diabetic cat!!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Oliver is a food thief partly because he is still not controlled and partly learned behavior. I would not be able to keep food out at anytime cause he would eat the entire thing as soon as it was placed in the bowl. I do offer dried salmon treats during the day. Very rarely do we have the Libre 3 alarm during the night if he is low. That usually only happens when the sensor is almost done.
 
Try a programmable timed feeder. That way your cat can have food at set meal times. The CatMate brand is popular. Here's a 5 meal feeder: https://www.chewy.com/cat-mate-c500-digital-5-meal/dp/154555 PetSafe is another popular brand, also with a 5 meal feeder: https://www.petsafe.com/product/5-meal-pet-feeder/?sku=PFD11-13707 The tray rotates at the scheduled time to give access to the food. You don't need to fill all 5 compartments. Such feeders are pretty cat-proof. Single and 2 compartment feeders with a lid that pops up are not cat-proof. Cats are known to pry those lids open.

Canned food is a cooked product and fine to put in a timed feeder. Some people freeze portions of canned food and put the frozen chunk into the feeder. The chunk will slowly defrost over the course of the day.
 
Lots of us use time feeders. I got mine from Chewy and it cost under $20. It will help get him regulated to eat more times a day. You also want to avoid the big sugar spikes which happen when you only feed 2 large meals.

He’s acting ravenous because he is due to being unregulated so it’s okay to feed more right now. When food is metabolized, it's broken down into glucose. Insulin is what helps to transport glucose into the cells. In a yet to be controlled diabetic, glucose continues to float around in the blood and nutrition isn't getting into the cells. This is why diabetics are hungry all of the time, eat, and lose weight. Until you know if your cat's blood glucose is under control, your cat is going to be ravenous and will need more food to compensate for the nutrition he isn’t getting.
 
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Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Lots of us use time feeders. I got mine from Chewy and it cost under $20. It will help get him regulated to eat more times a day. You also want to avoid the big sugar spikes which happen when you only feed 2 large meals.

He’s acting ravenous because he is due to being unregulated so it’s okay to feed more right now. When food is metabolized, it's broken down into glucose. Insulin is what helps to transport glucose into the cells. In a yet to be controlled diabetic, glucose continues to float around in the blood and nutrition isn't getting into the cells. This is why diabetics are hungry all of the time, eat, and lose weight. Until you know if your cat's blood glucose is under control, your cat is going to be ravenous and will need more food to compensate for the nutrition he isn’t getting.
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I’m finding all of this very challenging when I have two other cats. I had to completely change their lives once I adopted Oliver. I started giving Oliver some freeze dried treats during the day and a little before I go to sleep. I’m not sure when would be the best time to give extra food. I need to start the spreadsheet for him. He still has peaks and valleys. We use the libre3.
 
My Neko, the food thief, owned the auto feeder. My other cat quickly learned not to go after it. But he also benefited from going on the same low carb food as her. Which made my life easier too.

Ideally you want to feed extra food before his typical nadir. You could try at 3 and 6 hours after the shot, or 2 and 4 hours after, to start. Pick one and stick with it for a while.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
My Neko, the food thief, owned the auto feeder. My other cat quickly learned not to go after it. But he also benefited from going on the same low carb food as her. Which made my life easier too.

Ideally you want to feed extra food before his typical nadir. You could try at 3 and 6 hours after the shot, or 2 and 4 hours after, to start. Pick one and stick with it for a while.
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squeem3 said:
See this thread for a suggestion of how to allow the diabetic cat access to a timed feeder but not the other cats in the home: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/microchip-timed-feeder.286576/
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Thank you! We are going to try 3 and 6 hours during the day and then 3 hours in pm
 
Jennifer & Oliver said:
I’m finding all of this very challenging when I have two other cats. I had to completely change their lives once I adopted Oliver. I started giving Oliver some freeze dried treats during the day and a little before I go to sleep. I’m not sure when would be the best time to give extra food. I need to start the spreadsheet for him. He still has peaks and valleys. We use the libre3.
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It gets eaiser. It really does. Especially when you start to see them do better. How are you other cats adjusting? When Minnie was diabetic and Bobo wasn’t, I’d always give him food or treats at the same time I’d give her the smaller meals so he didn’t feel left out. It helped that Bobo never cared for food as much as she did!
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
It gets eaiser. It really does. Especially when you start to see them do better. How are you other cats adjusting? When Minnie was diabetic and Bobo wasn’t, I’d always give him food or treats at the same time I’d give her the smaller meals so he didn’t feel left out. It helped that Bobo never cared for food as much as she did!
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It has been a total life adjustment for Ricky and Lucy when Oliver came home from the shelter. Ricky and Lucy always free fed but Oliver is a ravenous food theif therefore we had to change Ricky and Lucy to being fec two-three times a day which took some time and still isn't perfect. Next since Oliver is PU/PD and the litter had lakes in it we had to change the litter systems out. That was more challenging to Ricky and Lucy then the feeding schedule. I always give Lucy and Ricky treats when Oliver gets his smaller meals too. Finally after 2 months or so all three have settled into a routine. :-)
 
QQ, you indicated you’re doing TR on his spreadsheet. Have you posted on the Lantus forum yet? With TR, you’d be increasing every 3 days, although he had that nice 97 yesterday so I wonder if folks would have you stay at 4 units a bit longer
And I’m guessing he’s bouncing today from that lower than usual 97. Do you understand what bouncing is?
@tiffmaxee thoughts?
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
QQ, you indicated you’re doing TR on his spreadsheet. Have you posted on the Lantus forum yet? With TR, you’d be increasing every 3 days, although he had that nice 97 yesterday so I wonder if folks would have you stay at 4 units a bit longer
And I’m guessing he’s bouncing today from that lower than usual 97. Do you understand what bouncing is?
@tiffmaxee thoughts?
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I read somewhere about bouncing. I think its where the body thinks that his 97 was hypo and releases more glucose to compensate for it. It's just disappointing to see it happen even though I understand what it is.
 
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