New member

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Hello and thank you. I’m 3 days new to this diabetes with my Tom, we started on 1 unit of insulin in the morning and 1 in the night. I’m having trouble adjusting him to only 2 meals/day as he is used to eating small amounts more often so I give in and give him some tuna twice in between the shots as I fear more of his blood sugar dropping very low than having it high. I ordered Royal Canin Urinary s/o dry and wet as the vet said to only give the dry one... strange as I researched I saw that dry isn’t good for them... good that I ordered the wet pouches as well...he seems to be more lethargic after the morning shot and more active afternoon/ evening before the other shot...but his schedule before diabetes was to eat early morning, sleep until 1-2pm, eat again, sleep until 5-6pm, play and sleep and nibble a little during the night...maybe I’m just being paranoid...now he wakes up more often and demands food, drinks water...any thought is welcomed, thanks again

 

[tiffmaxee]

Welcome. Which insulin are you giving? Did you get a glucose monitor? It’s important to test at home so you know if it’s safe to shoot and how low your cars BG goes. Most of us use a human one as the test trips are cheaper and the dosing methods we use were formulated using a human meter. Dry food is definitely not the way to go. You are correct. At the top off this forum you will see a link to food charts. Veterinary food is not needed. Many feed fancy feast pates, a raw diet, or any number of canned lower carb foods.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Hello and welcome!

What kind of insulin are you using? I'm a bit worried when you say he seems "lethargic" after his shots-- how many hours afterward does this happen?

Most of us here home-test blood glucose so that we can track exactly where they are and how they're responding to insulin during the day. It's the best way to keep them safe and make sure they're on the right dose. Does that sound like something you'd be willing to do?

Regarding food, first thing is that it's absolutely fine to give multiple meals during the day. In fact, we encourage it, for just the reasons you are thinking-- grazing during the day helps keep the blood sugar stable, buffers against insulin, and is easier on the pancreas. So go ahead and feed him!

Elise has just posted with some of the other things I was going to say about food, so I'll end this here. Welcome again to you and Tom!

 

[Diana&Tom]

Hi Brindusa, I believe you’re in the UK - it’s a good idea to mention this in your post so that people can give you specific advice on certain things, eg foods etc (you will also get lots of help from the UK Feline Diabetes Support group on Facebook that you’ve joined). Also ref glucose meters, we can suggest ones to buy in the UK. Most people here are in the US and we don’t have the same things here (similar but not exactly the same).

Other than that, the advice here is brilliant, have a read through some of the threads and you’ll start to get a feel for the FD vocabulary etc!

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Welcome. Which insulin are you giving? Did you get a glucose monitor? It’s important to test at home so you know if it’s safe to shoot and how low your cars BG goes. Most of us use a human one as the test trips are cheaper and the dosing methods we use were formulated using a human meter. Dry food is definitely not the way to go. You are correct. At the top off this forum you will see a link to food charts. Veterinary food is not needed. Many feed fancy feast pates, a raw diet, or any number of canned lower carb foods.

He recommended that food I think because he found crystals in his urine, I give him antibiotic Synulox and cystaid plus twice a day. I ordered the human blood tester but still to come in a few days. I use caninsulin.

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Hello and welcome!

What kind of insulin are you using? I'm a bit worried when you say he seems "lethargic" after his shots-- how many hours afterward does this happen?

Most of us here home-test blood glucose so that we can track exactly where they are and how they're responding to insulin during the day. It's the best way to keep them safe and make sure they're on the right dose. Does that sound like something you'd be willing to do?

Regarding food, first thing is that it's absolutely fine to give multiple meals during the day. In fact, we encourage it, for just the reasons you are thinking-- grazing during the day helps keep the blood sugar stable, buffers against insulin, and is easier on the pancreas. So go ahead and feed him!

Elise has just posted with some of the other things I was going to say about food, so I'll end this here. Welcome again to you and Tom!

I have ordered the human blood tester but still a few days till it comes. The vet gave Caninsulin and he is only lethargic like after the morning shot and it happens exactly after, like he is a bit absent until he goes to sleep.

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Hi Brindusa, I believe you’re in the UK - it’s a good idea to mention this in your post so that people can give you specific advice on certain things, eg foods etc (you will also get lots of help from the UK Feline Diabetes Support group on Facebook that you’ve joined). Also ref glucose meters, we can suggest ones to buy in the UK. Most people here are in the US and we don’t have the same things here (similar but not exactly the same).

Other than that, the advice here is brilliant, have a read through some of the threads and you’ll start to get a feel for the FD vocabulary etc!

Thank you very much and apologies for not stating where I’m from. UK Wales

 

[tiffmaxee]

That insulin is not so good for cats. It’s really for dogs. Do you think that your vet would let you change to another insulin? The best insulins for cats are Lantus, Levimir, and prozinc.

 

[Diana&Tom]

Thank you very much and apologies for not stating where I’m from. UK Wales

No apologies needed! It just means that people can help you better if they know what country you’re in

 

[Diana&Tom]

@Brindusa Elena Nechita there are various insulins used for diabetic cats, some work better than others. Caninsulin is nearly always the first one tried by vets in the UK and it does work fine for some cats. These are very early days for you. If after a while it is shown not to be ideal, the vet may try a different insulin. Learning how to test blood glucose at home and keeping a note of Tom’s behaviour as you are already doing will give the vet information to work with.
Good luck!

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

That insulin is not so good for cats. It’s really for dogs. Do you think that your vet would let you change to another insulin? The best insulins for cats are Lantus, Levimir, and prozinc.

I don’t know as I don’t really trust the vet... I think he activated his diabetes 6 weeks ago when I took Tom to him to treat his infectious ears and he gave him a steroid/ corticosteroid shot that made him drink a lot of water and pee a lot

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

I think he activated his diabetes 6 weeks ago when I took Tom to him to treat his infectious ears and he gave him a steroid/ corticosteroid shot that made him drink a lot of water and pee a lot

Ah, that's very good to know!

Yes, it's pretty common to have diabetes triggered by steroids. That makes me even more glad that you are going to start home-testing soon, as sometimes that kind of diabetes doesn't last long before they go into remission. By testing, you'll be able to see any changes in Tom's insulin needs, and adjust to keep him safe.

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Ah, that's very good to know!

Yes, it's pretty common to have diabetes triggered by steroids. That makes me even more glad that you are going to start home-testing soon, as sometimes that kind of diabetes doesn't last long before they go into remission. By testing, you'll be able to see any changes in Tom's insulin needs, and adjust to keep him safe.

But if the vet knew that something like this could happen why not give him something else? Is it fair for an owner to have to live, care, worry about a diabetic cat for the rest of its life like this just because maybe it was convenient for the vet to give that shot??!!

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

But if the vet knew that something like this could happen why not give him something else? Is it fair for an owner to have to live, care, worry about a diabetic cat for the rest of its life like this just because maybe it was convenient for the vet to give that shot??!!

Well.... couple things here. Yes, there are sometimes alternatives to steroids, but not for everything (not sure about the ear condition). The second thing is, feline diabetes is a manageable condition, and sometimes when you're balancing factors, it's better to take that risk than to not try to treat something else. Pretty often around here, we see cats with additional conditions where the treatment for one is likely to affect or even exacerbate FD. The usual advice is, treat the other condition first, and then dose insulin around any results.

Not saying this was your vet's thought process, just saying it's not always an easy call. And as I said up above, there's a good chance that Tom's FD, being likely steroid-induced, will end up being transitory. Fingers crossed!

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Hi @Brindusa Elena Nechita, and a warm welcome to FDMB.

It can be a real shock finding out that our beloved cat is diabetic. And it can feel overwhelming at first. But please be reassured that diabetes 'is' treatable. And with good care a diabetic kitty can live as long, as healthily, and as happily, as a non-diabetic. (My first diabetic boy lived for 12 and a half years with diabetes, and died at the ripe old age of 20...)

Many vets in the UK prescribe Caninsulin for cats when they are first diagnosed. Don't worry. Caninsulin can work just fine for some cats. And if you do find that it isn't working well for your kitty then you should be able to switch to an alternative insulin. But there's no rush. It can take a little time to see how an insulin works for our cat. And 'every cat is different'. (((Reassuring Hugs)))

I do strongly recommend that you learn to test your cat's blood glucose at home. It is much easier than it sounds! And it will help you to understand how the insulin is working in your kitty's body. It will also help to keep your kitty safe from hypoglycemia. Many in the UK use ordinary glucose meters made for humans. The 'Gluco Navii' is a popular current choice. And it is also among the cheapest to use. (The main cost of testing is the test strips.)
If your cat is on a higher carb food at the moment then it's safest to wait until your are hometesting before switching to a lower carb diet. So DON'T change the food at this point... You can do that later.

If your kitty's diabetes is steroid-induced, and he is no longer on the steroids, then he has a higher than average chance of recovering enough to cease to need insulin (of going 'into remission') either temporarily or permanently.
Is your kitty still on steroid treatment...?

I'm in the UK too. Sending you a big hug from Surrey.

Eliz

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Hi @Brindusa Elena Nechita, and a warm welcome to FDMB.

It can be a real shock finding out that our beloved cat is diabetic. And it can feel overwhelming at first. But please be reassured that diabetes 'is' treatable. And with good care a diabetic kitty can live as long, as healthily, and as happily, as a non-diabetic. (My first diabetic boy lived for 12 and a half years with diabetes, and died at the ripe old age of 20...)

Many vets in the UK prescribe Caninsulin for cats when they are first diagnosed. Don't worry. Caninsulin can work just fine for some cats. And if you do find that it isn't working well for your kitty then you should be able to switch to an alternative insulin. But there's no rush. It can take a little time to see how an insulin works for our cat. And 'every cat is different'. (((Reassuring Hugs)))

I do strongly recommend that you learn to test your cat's blood glucose at home. It is much easier than it sounds! And it will help you to understand how the insulin is working in your kitty's body. It will also help to keep your kitty safe from hypoglycemia. Many in the UK use ordinary glucose meters made for humans. The 'Gluco Navii' is a popular current choice. And it is also among the cheapest to use. (The main cost of testing is the test strips.)
If your cat is on a higher carb food at the moment then it's safest to wait until your are hometesting before switching to a lower carb diet. So DON'T change the food at this point... You can do that later.

If your kitty's diabetes is steroid-induced, and he is no longer on the steroids, then he has a higher than average chance of recovering enough to cease to need insulin (of going 'into remission') either temporarily or permanently.
Is your kitty still on steroid treatment...?

I'm in the UK too. Sending you a big hug from Surrey.

Eliz

Aww, thank you for your response, it really means a lot when you see yourself overwhelmed with so much information and worries and thank you for the loving hugs, I really need them... he only had a one time shot of steroids on 11th November. Hopefully he will recover

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Well.... couple things here. Yes, there are sometimes alternatives to steroids, but not for everything (not sure about the ear condition). The second thing is, feline diabetes is a manageable condition, and sometimes when you're balancing factors, it's better to take that risk than to not try to treat something else. Pretty often around here, we see cats with additional conditions where the treatment for one is likely to affect or even exacerbate FD. The usual advice is, treat the other condition first, and then dose insulin around any results.

Not saying this was your vet's thought process, just saying it's not always an easy call. And as I said up above, there's a good chance that Tom's FD, being likely steroid-induced, will end up being transitory. Fingers crossed!

Aww, thank you and I didn’t mean to sound aggressive but I am frustrated and worried... but you managed to calm me down a bit and hoping he will get better

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to FDMB!! It's the best place you never wanted to be.

In all likelihood, your vet was following a first line choice by giving your kitty a steroid shot. Many cats can be on steroids for any number of reasons and never develop diabetes. Unfortunately, Tom isn't in that group. However, like Elizabeth said, a steroid induced diabetic has a better than average chance of going into remission.

A few suggestions to get you started...
This post on helping us to help you will give you the tools for setting up your signature and your spreadsheet. The signature will have some of the basic information we ask so we don't keep asking you the same questions over and over again. A spreadsheet will allow you to track Tom's progress and we will be able to follow along and offer feedback.

This is the link to the Canisulin/Vetsulin board. There is information on the insulin and dosing strategy there. It will help you to become more knowledgeable about the insulin you're using.

This is a link to a website on feline nutrition. The website is written by a vet. She's not a big fan of dry cat food. This is a link to her section on urinary track issues. The food your vet has recommended is very high in carbohydrates. Even the canned variety of the Royal Canin is over 20% carb. Carbs are not diabetes friendly. We suggest a low carb diet of under 10% carb and most people here feed their cat around 5%. Again, Elizabeth offered very good advice. Until you are home testing, I would not change Tom's food. Vetsulin can drop numbers hard and fast. You have some protection due to the carb count of the food you're using.

Please let us know what questions you have. We're here to help.

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Welcome to FDMB!! It's the best place you never wanted to be.

In all likelihood, your vet was following a first line choice by giving your kitty a steroid shot. Many cats can be on steroids for any number of reasons and never develop diabetes. Unfortunately, Tom isn't in that group. However, like Elizabeth said, a steroid induced diabetic has a better than average chance of going into remission.

A few suggestions to get you started...
This post on helping us to help you will give you the tools for setting up your signature and your spreadsheet. The signature will have some of the basic information we ask so we don't keep asking you the same questions over and over again. A spreadsheet will allow you to track Tom's progress and we will be able to follow along and offer feedback.

This is the link to the Canisulin/Vetsulin board. There is information on the insulin and dosing strategy there. It will help you to become more knowledgeable about the insulin you're using.

This is a link to a website on feline nutrition. The website is written by a vet. She's not a big fan of dry cat food. This is a link to her section on urinary track issues. The food your vet has recommended is very high in carbohydrates. Even the canned variety of the Royal Canin is over 20% carb. Carbs are not diabetes friendly. We suggest a low carb diet of under 10% carb and most people here feed their cat around 5%. Again, Elizabeth offered very good advice. Until you are home testing, I would not change Tom's food. Vetsulin can drop numbers hard and fast. You have some protection due to the carb count of the food you're using.

Please let us know what questions you have. We're here to help.

Thank you!

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Hey again my baby just threw up half the meal he had tonight but before his shot 20 min ago... what do I do, give the shot or not?thanks

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi Brindusa,

Please don't give any insulin for the time being. Please give me a few minutes to type a longer reply to you.


Mogs
.

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi again,

I've just had a quick skim of the earlier posts in the thread. My understanding is:

- This is day 4 of Tom's treatment with 1IU Caninsulin AM and PM.

- Tom has been switched to a feeding schedule where he only eats twice a day now, just before his insulin dose is due to be administered.

- You're not yet home testing blood glucose levels.

Questions:

1. Is my understanding as posted above correct? If not, what have I missed?

2. Was there a fair amount of liquid in the vomit Tom just brought up?

3. Does Tom have any history of testing positive for ketones or episodes of diabetic ketoacidosis?

4. Does Tom have any other health conditions besides the diabetes (e.g any infection)?

5. Have you tried offering Tom any more food, and did he eat it OK?

6. How high were Tom's BG levels as measured by the vets?


Mogs
.

 

[Critter Mom]

My sincere apologies! I typed the above immediately after replying to you earlier but I hit the forum board link instead of the Post Reply button so it didn't get posted to your thread. I've been watching the board index for a reply from you but it's only when I came back to post to you again that I discovered my screw-up. I'm so sorry for keeping you waiting. I am such a numpty.


Mogs
.

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Hi again,

I've just had a quick skim of the earlier posts in the thread. My understanding is:

- This is day 4 of Tom's treatment with 1IU Caninsulin AM and PM.

- Tom has been switched to a feeding schedule where he only eats twice a day now, just before his insulin dose is due to be administered.

- You're not yet home testing blood glucose levels.

Questions:

1. Is my understanding as posted above correct? If not, what have I missed?

2. Was there a fair amount of liquid in the vomit Tom just brought up?

3. Does Tom have any history of testing positive for ketones or episodes of diabetic ketoacidosis?

4. Does Tom have any other health conditions besides the diabetes (e.g any infection)?

5. Have you tried offering Tom any more food, and did he eat it OK?

6. How high were Tom's BG levels as measured by the vets?


Mogs
.

Hello and thank you for the response. I posted on the fan group and someone said to try and give food again and do the shot so I did 20 min later and he is fine. I’m not currently testing, waiting for the tester and I will feel safer then. He is on 1unit/twice/day Caninsulin. His BG level at the vet was 270. I think I made a mistake these days as I joined the groups and seen that all babies are on wet low carb I switched his dry high carb as well on wet, but more than 2 meals/day because he is used to more than 2. Now I know that without testing I shouldn’t have done that... that is why he was absent after shots and not reacting much( he might have had a hypo and I didn’t know, I watched him closely but did not see any worrying signs and I know now that some cats don’t show signs). Now until the tester comes I give him his normal dry food anytime he wants it and a treat or two of the wet low carb. I am waiting on Royal Canin Urinary s/o as I ordered it instructed by the vet(struvites in his urine, maybe an infection, I give antibiotic and cystaid as well 2/day).

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Before his diagnosis he used to throw up often(every other day sometimes or once a week not always with hairballs)

 

[Critter Mom]

I'm glad you're sorted for this cycle, Brindusa. Once again, my apologies for the delay in posting my earlier reply.

I am waiting on Royal Canin Urinary s/o as I ordered it instructed by the vet(struvites in his urine, maybe an infection, I give antibiotic and cystaid as well 2/day).

There's very good information on urinary tract issues here:

https://catinfo.org/feline-urinary-tract-diseases/

Before his diagnosis he used to throw up often(every other day sometimes or once a week not always with hairballs)

Did your vet do any blood work with a view to determining any possible causes for this?


Mogs
.

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

I'm glad you're sorted for this cycle, Brindusa. Once again, my apologies for the delay in posting my earlier reply.


There's very good information on urinary tract issues here:

https://catinfo.org/feline-urinary-tract-diseases/


Did your vet do any blood work with a view to determining any possible causes for this?


Mogs
.

He did blood work but he just confirmed the diabetes and he looked at the microscope in his urine and found the struvites. No explanation or cause

 

[Critter Mom]

Is there any chance you might be able to request copies of the results for the blood and urine tests? There's no legal reason why you can't get copies. (I'm in the UK too and I now always get copies of test results from our vets.) If you could get copies we could get one of our members skilled in their interpretation to have a look at them for you.


Mogs
.

 

[Brindusa Elena Nechita]

Is there any chance you might be able to request copies of the results for the blood and urine tests? There's no legal reason why you can't get copies. (I'm in the UK too and I now always get copies of test results from our vets.) If you could get copies we could get one of our members skilled in their interpretation to have a look at them for you.


Mogs
.

I will try thank you