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If he's losing too much weight too quickly, you might need to up his food intake. You might want to see where he falls on this body condition score chart. You want your cat to be at their ideal weight to help with the diabetes control. Excess weight can cause insulin resistance.
 
Questions....What is with the spikes in the morning and evening just before his injections? Seems like it always jumps right before his injection..Since the increase his numbers seem all over the place where he was more stable on the lower dosage albeit a bit high still.. Suggestions?? Should i post this in the other forum areas that were suggested.

Thanks

Dan
 
He may be one of the cats for whom Lantus lasts a shorter time than 12 hours.

Are you picking up all food at +10 so there's 2 hours without food before you pre-test?
 
Thats what i was wondering that it wasnt lasting long enough.. Didnt know about the 2 hour thing with the food..Thanks for the tip
 
Try the 2 hour food pickup for the next several tests and let us know if that helps. If not, we have lots of ideas!
 
Also I think his nadir currently looks like its at +8 or so. When you see him dropping I would keep testing every hour or two till he starts to go back up - try and see how low he is going.

I would say time for another increase anyway -you could ask that on the other forum.

Wendy
 
Need some help with injections. Taz getting very difficult lately with moving around and flinching. Doesn't like to be held down.. Been missing shots like every other one now stuck myself last night..His numbers are all over the place now.Loosing track of it all.. @-) Still using the syringe though until vial is gone..
The vet taught me to pinch his skin like a tent in inject it into the lower tent spot. This is not working! Where and how does everyone else do it? Tired and overwhelmed at the moment need to take a step back and reset this.. :oops:

thanks

dan
 
I have a few ideas

1. How about you shoot when he is eating? When his face is in the food he shouldnt notice
2. Ask the vet or do it yourself and shave a few spots on his body so you can see better
3. choose a short needle - what kind are you using? Then pull the skin up by the fur and inject at a shallow angle. With a short needle and shallow angle you dont need to worry so much about a big tent or pinching.
4. Here is a shot placement map - you can vary where you do it: http://www.bd.com/ca/diabetes/english/page.aspx?cat=14501&id=14874
5. More shooting tips: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=85113


Wendy
 
Thanks Wendy.. Yeah I did try the food thing when we first started treating him but he wont have anything to do with that now.. I forgot about the shaving idea i was going to try that to. Thanks for the tip pages i will look at them..Using Relion syringes 31 gauge 8mm length short needle..
thanks again!
 
Another option for doing testing and shots:

Burrito wrap:
Place towel on floor.
Place cat halfway between the ends.
Wrap each end around the cat, including paws.
Additional restraint may be done by kneeling straddled over the cat and compressing your thighs along the cat's body and slightly sitting over the cat to reduce upward motion.

Test from there.
 
Yes mainly just shooting.. I tried a different spot this morning. Shaved a part on his flank. I know i got all in there but i dont think it absorbed well.Numbers sitting in the 300's today. May move back to his scruff and shave a part there to see if it's better. I think the fussing over him is annoying him? He is doing the "i am annoyed with you tail flipping thing lately" cat(2)_steam
 
You might try leaving the syringe out for a few minutes before shooting. I've heard that the fact that it's cold might make it sting a little more. Maybe if you draw it up and let it sit for 10 minutes or so, it'll help
 
Hey there
Hows things going? I am looking forward to another test today - hoping for a green!

I am thinking you might want to post on the lantus board.That board has lots of very experienced dosing members on it and is a great sense of community.Since you are now up to speed with testing etc I think they will really be able to advise you better on dosing etc. I post there myself every day or two to get their eyes on my cats.

There is no rush to post there. I like to suggest that people go over to their insulin specific support group and check it out. Read the Stickies at the top of the Topics section. Read a few condos posted by other members. Get a feel for how the forum works. See if you think it would be a good fit for you.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

Here’s how to post:
Every day ( or as often as you can) you open a new thread/post. We call them "condos" (short for condition report, or the home you live in and the cat trees some people have)

Subject line: The subject has the date/cats name and BG readings ie 10/06 Taz AMPS 263 +3 120 . You add a ? icon if you have a question. You should update your subject line in the very first post for the day as you get a reading, or whenever you have a question. For your first post put "newbie" also in your subject so everyone can welcome you!

Contents: The contents of your post have a quick update on how Taz is feeling as regards the 5Ps ( peeing. pooing, preening, playing and purring) and any questions and a link to your previous post ie : Today Taz was in a good mood, playing and eating well. But he is peeing a lot and his BG is really high. Should I increase the dose?


But you are always welcome to post here in the Feline Health forum for as long as you want.

Wendy
 
Hello there

had a quick look at your numbers and not sure why you reduced the dose the other day from 2.5 to 2 units?

Also am i seeing right - are you shooting less than every 12 hours? Why is that?

Lantus is not dosed like that. Lantus is a depot insulin which means it rakes 2-3 days to build up and drain in his system. Dosing more than that will just mess up the depot. But I understand your concern on his numbers - the only solution I have for you is to stick more closely to the protocol http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581 - and even join that board http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

The protocol has been proven to work, we see it often, and really I just think you havent quite reached his best dose yet.

Wendy
 
I changed it because i wanted to start over was getting confused and overwhelmed..I would panic when i would see a black or red number, then shot him early.. Didnt know it was a depot med. I will stick to the protocol now. Thanks
 
Dan, many of us have been there, too.

Better too high for a day, than too low for a moment.
The first one isn't great, but is survivable. For short periods in many cases. The second one kills quickly.
 
Thanks BJM.. I apologize if my post seemed a bit short,kinda of sleep deprived..Its alot trying to understand the do's and don'ts, good numbers bad numbers when to panic and not panic.. ohmygod_smile Thanks for understanding. Sorry if I sounded snippy Wendy, just tired..

dan
 
I didnt read snippy into that at all. no need to apologise. But keep asking questions here, we can help for sure. Sometimes you need to read up, and ask the same questions a few times before it sinks in.

For now I would hold this dose of 2.25 for at least 3 days starting today (unless he drops under 50). Give it every 12 hours ( give or take 15 mins). and then we can re-evaluate.

Wendy
 
Dosing twice a day yes not sure what you mean by cycle 4..Heres a question.. If its time for his shot but his number is in low 100's should he get it or wait till it comes up?
 
not sure what you mean by cycle 4.
Click to expand...

Tonight's shot was the 4th time you'd given the 2.25 dose in a row. When you skip shots, you start counting cycles over. Each day has 2 cycles, an AMPS and a PMPS

If its time for his shot but his number is in low 100's should he get it or wait till it comes up
Click to expand...

Is this just a general question in case it happens some time in the future? Last test I see is your PMPS tonight of 244

But in answer to this question, if you get a PS under 150, you should stall, don't feed, don't shoot and test again in 30 minutes to see if the numbers are coming up. If they're coming up, then you'd want to shoot, but when you shoot low, you always need to have your hypo kit ready, just in case you need it. If you'd like to see a good example of "shooting low to stay low", take a look at China's results today. When she was at 89, I knew she was coming up since her +11 had been 62, so I gave her normal shot. Now she could surf safely all night long, or she could dip too low (she was already at 50 tonight). These are the kinds of situations that the testing is invaluable.
 
It was a both question. His shot was to be at +11 but i thought maybe 170 was to low to shot so i waited an hour and he came up to 244 then did it..so i guess i did ok with that?
 
His shot was to be at +11
Click to expand...

+11 is 11 hours into the cycle. Each cycle (AM and PM) are 12 hours long, so at +11, you shouldn't be shooting. That being said, it IS a good test to get occasionally. +1, +2,+10, and +11 are called "the forgotten tests" since most people get into the habit of doing just Pre-shot tests, a mid-cycle during the day and a before bed test at night. Those "forgotten" tests are valuable to know just so you learn more about how your cat's curves will usually look like.

This is the perfect case for getting that +11!! By seeing 171 at +11, when PMPS time DID come, he was coming up..to 244...so you would know it was safe to shoot.

IF he'd been 171 at +11 and then at PMPS he had dropped lower, you'd want to stall, don't feed, don't shoot, and retest in 30 minutes. You want the number to be rising (without the influence of food)

Other than just the error in your times, you did the EXACT right thing!! Taz was coming up at PMPS so you shot/fed!

Remember, no food for 2 hours prior to your Pre-shot tests, and if you get a number you're concerned about shooting, stall, don't feed, don't shoot, and retest in 30 minutes. If you can, you might want to use that 30 minutes to post here and get someone to help you decide when to shoot
 
The +11 is actually the 12th hour for me.. Having a learning disability i've had to figure out a way to use the spreadsheet that lets me undestand it. i keep the hours in my head. when i put stuff down on paper i cant see it just looks all jumbled at times..So this probably confuses everyone making it harder for you to help me i know sorry bout that...i'll try to put the hours in the note section so you guys can see when i actually shoot him..i test him about every 2-3 hours. sorry if my sheet looks confusing...
 
OK...well maybe this will help (and if it doesn't, yes, putting it in the Remarks is a good way to help)

If your shot times are going to be 8am and 8pm, those are the AMPS and PMPS times. You want to test/shoot/feed all at once within about 15 minutes.

if you get a test at 10am, that's +2 (8am+2 hours=10am)

If you get a test at 3pm, that's +7 (8am+7 hours=3pm)

If you test at 6pm, that's +10 (8am+10 hours=6pm)

Does that help any? If it doesn't, please just continue keeping notes in your Remarks section, but your Pre-shot tests should always be 12 hours apart, so if you shoot at 8am, you don't want to shoot again until 8pm...and it's always important for you to test right before you shoot.
 
If you need to renumber the columns, go ahead.

But the 12th hour is the next pre-shot and also the 0th hour for the next cycle.
 
Couple of things Dan

Remember, since you had an emergency vet trip that pushed the PMPS shot back an hour (to 10:50pm) the AMPS shot should have been given no sooner than 10:35am (you can adjust back 15 minutes per cycle or one 30 minute adjustment per day until you get back on the schedule you want)

By giving it earlier than 12 hours apart, it acts like an increase in the dose, so between giving it early, and then not being sure about your dosing and re-doing the shot, there's just no way to know for sure what might have happened (I'm also assuming that you meant that when Taz was fidgety, you're SURE you didn't get any insulin into him and re-measured the shot and then gave it....IF there's any chance any insulin gets into Taz, you never want to try to "make up" what you think they missed)

Don't use dry food to bring up numbers, and you only want to worry if the number drops below 50. I KNOW it's scary those first few times you see numbers in the 60's, but don't panic! Those are good, pancreas healing numbers! We WANT them to spend as much time between 50-130 as possible

Dry takes too long to break down and get into the bloodstream to use when they go too low, and then it can take quite a long time to clear the body, so not only will it not bring them up quickly, once it does "kick in", it'll hang around too long.

If Taz does drop below 50, you should have some gravy type foods (Like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers--they're high carb) in the house and you'd just want to give him a couple teaspoons of the "gravy" part (most cats LOVE it) and then retest in 20-30 minutes. Depending on where it is in the cycle, you could give 1 teaspoon of his regular LC food and a couple teaspoons of "gravy", but you don't want to feed him too much in case you need to continue to get him to eat later. You can use a couple of drops of Karo or syrup mixed in with a teaspoon of regular LC food INSTEAD of the gravy, but with those simple sugars, they bring the number up quickly, but also leave just as fast. The gravies are the best choice.

You're doing good Dan...remember, we're always here, so if you have a question or think Taz might be in any danger, start a new post and add the 911 icon...it will get eyes on your post quickly to help you through those first scary times...and don't forget to print out the How to handle low numbers sticky so just in case it takes a little while for someone to get online and help you, you still have that information to guide you.
 
Yeah its been one panic filled weekend :oops: ! I'm sure i messed up everything with taz. Finally got some sleep last night so try to get back on course today.. Didn't know about the 911 icon i see it now thanks. Thanks for the reassurance I needed that after yesterday :-D ..
 
Yeah it sounds like you had a real stressful few days. Hopefully the good night's sleep will recharge your batteries for the next thrilling installment :lol:

Just an idea...you might want to move over to the Lantus board now that you're not so new. It just easier for you to not get so lost in the posts, but of course you are free to continue posting on the Health board. We'll help you no matter where you post!

Over on the Lantus board, we generally post once per day (each post is called a "condo"). You'd put the date, Taz, AMPS # and then as you get tests during the cycles, you just go back and "edit" your condo subject line and add those results.

For example, yours could look like this if you'd done one on 10/17....10/17 Taz AMPS 282,+3 305,+6 213,+9 338,+11 321...then if you run out of room, when you get to the PMPS cycle, you just delete the AM numbers from the subject line and continue on.

I know you have some problems with using the + system, so it would be fine if you needed to use the times you got the tests in...whatever works for you!

In the "body" of the post, we like to get the WCR (Whole Cat Report)...how's Taz feeling? Is his appetite good? Are the 5 "P's" in place? (Purring, playing, preening, peeing and pooping).....whatever little details you'd like to add are great!

If you have a question that day, you'd add the ? icon in that first post (that's the only one it shows up on for us when we're scanning and looking for people with questions) and as soon as possible, someone will try to help answer it.

We're quite an active family in Lantus Land, and would love to have you join us if you'd like to!!
 
Hows things going? Numbers don't look too bad although you did miss an earned dose decrease. Whenever he goes under 50 you want to drop dose by 0.25 ...

Wendy
 
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