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Emilie

Member Since 2013
I rescued a 23lb, 6 yr old male kitty named Ziggy 2 years ago and we have been fighting diabetes for 7 mos. This has been a rough month for us as he is definitely not regulated. I have been trying to transition him to wet food which has really been no problem but my vet just can't understand why I am doing this. I was out of town for 9 days and left him at the clinic and brought his food(which wasn't given to him). I also asked that his urine be checked since he had several accidents which amounted to his ruining $4000. worth of furniture. When I picked him up I found this was not done. My vet had been out of town and the communication between the front and techs was obviously not happening. He was back a day later and guess what! He had a UTI, which didn't surprise me at all. I was so upset I said I would leave him on the W/D. What a mistake. He has now developed neuropathy and when he uses his litter box he comes out with poop all over his feet. I clean him up, and then I get upset that he is going through this. He is on Novolin N, 10 units, twice a day. I really think he was better on the canned with half the amount of insulin. I have spent this whole weekend reading more about the neuropathy and have many questions when I see the vet again tomorrow. I will remain firm about what I want done now. I really don't know how it will work out and I am in the process of trying to find a vet who will work with me. I just want to let you know that I do have a wonderful vet - he, just like so many are just not up on TR, etc.

Thanks so much for this group and listening to my problem. I'm sure so many of you have been through this same thing and I would definitely appreciate any help and encouragement you can give me.
 
A big FDMB welcome to Ziggy and his caregiver. You forgot to give us your name. Would you please tell us?

Novolin N is not a good insulin for cats. It doesn't last long enough, so the cat is without insulin for a good portion of the day in between each shot. Most cats only get 6-8 hours duration out of the NPH insulins.

Lantus, Levimir and Prozinc are much better insulins for cats. Here is a link to a savings card program from the manufacturer of Lantus Solostar pens. It's a mini-vial holding 3mL instead of 10mL. $25 for the first 6 prescriptions. Number one recommended insulin for cats in the Merck Veterinary Manual. You need your vet to write a prescription for the solostar, for 1 pen at a time.

The Hill's W/d is a very high carb food. It's what kept my foster cat Wink on insulin and unregulated. Switched him to low carb wet and his numbers dropped dramatically and he went OTJ (off-the-juice) aka into remission in about 7 weeks.

We recommend low carb food, <10% to bring those BG numbers down. You need to be home testing before you do this food change. We use this Food Chart from vet Dr. Lisa Pierson. Look for <10% carbs in the 3rd column of numbers.

I feed Fancy Feast pates and Friskies pates to all my cats.

Are you home testing?
 
Hello and welcome to the board

There is a correlation between dry food and high blood glucose because cats cant handle high carbohydrates and dry food is almost always too high in carbs. So you are correct in saying he was probably doing better on the wet - and because it was likely lower carb, he didnt need as much insulin.

I am not surprised there are regulation problems too - Novolin is really hard to regulate on and its pretty harsh on cats. Deb gave a better recommendation but to summarize here are the key things in recommended order.

1. Better insulin as Deb said - Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc
2. Start home testing - key to regulate - keeps Ziggy safe . saves you money at the vets and allows better monitoring and control
3. Then Change back to a lower carb wet food ie Fancy feast classic pates, Friskies pates or wellness grain free. Or we can can give other suggestions.

Wendy
 
Thanks for all of the support and info! By the way, my name is Emilie - must have forgotten to give that being as I had been up most of the last week with Ziggy.

Went back to the vet on Monday and asked that they change the insulin, and they ordered the PZI for him. I let him know that we needed to be on the same page and I couldn't understand why he wanted me to give dry food. He said he wanted to try the Purina DM and I just about freaked out but at the moment I just want him to be fairly regulated and for the neuropathy to improve. If my vet wasn't considered one of the best in town I would think he was crazy. I am in the process of looking for a vet who will work with me, and understand why I want to home test. Do you find this a common occurrence? I also asked that while he was there that they test his urine again since he had the UTI and also the ketones. This time I will ask for a copy of the results so I can start my own log.

Thanks for the suggestions on food. Fancy Feast and Friskies is definitely cheaper than what I have been feeding. Have you heard anything about not feeding fish flavours. All of my kitties love Fussiecat, but all but two are some component of the fish realm. The other two have rice, and I have been sticking to grain free with all of mine. I have used Wellness Pate and they seem to like the turkey and the chicken. Does it make a difference if you feed different brands and flavours or will this mess up the numbers? Sorry for all of the questions but I am so excited to be able to talk with someone who has been through this and is on the same page with me.

Will definitely let you know how he is doing when I pick him up tomorrow.
 
Hi Emilie! Deb here. that picture over there on the right is my sugardude Wink. He used to be on insulin, unregulated and living at a cat shelter. I brought him home to foster the middle of January and he has wormed his way into my heart. I switched him from high carb dry to low carb wet and he is now OTJ (off-the-juice, insulin being the juice). He is what we call diet controlled or in remission.

I'm telling you about Wink, because when he came to live with me, he had absolutely horrible neuropathy. couldn't walk more than 3-4 steps without stopping to rest, could barely jump up a foot, walking entirely on his hocks. problems climbing the stairs, couldn't play. You wouldn't recognize him now. He jumps every where, plays with my other 2 cats and runs around the house like a kitten! :o :shock: :o

Getting the neuropathy to heal is a combination of getting the BG (blood glucose) under control, methylcobalamin to help heal the nerves and time. Methy B-12 is available in pills or a liquid. You want something that has no sugars in it.

Have you heard anything about not feeding fish flavours.
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I don't feed fish flavors more than once or twice a week to my civies (civilians, non-diabetic cats). Too much mercury and other contaminants for my peace of mind. Wink hates fish so he eats the turkey/poultry flavors. The Friskies pates have some rice in them and often some fish, but small quantities. Some of the Fancy Feast classic pates have a little bit of fish in them also. I've heard the Wellness pate is a good food but have never fed it myself.

You said your vet wanted to try the Purina DM. It's an ok food, not very high quality since the first ingredient is pork liver. Many cats get tired of the flavor and won't eat it after the novelty wears off. I wouldn't want to feed my cats a food that is mainly liver.

Does it make a difference if you feed different brands and flavours or will this mess up the numbers?
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Feeding different brands and flavors will not mess up the numbers. Some cats are more carb sensitive than others so need the lower carb flavors. You'll have to try different flavors and find out.

For example, Friskies Mixed Grill pate has 11% carbs. That raises Wink's BG about 40-50 points. I don't feed that one anymore since he went OTJ.

Good to hear you will be getting PZI. It's one of our top 3 recommendations for insulin for cats.

Yes, it's very common for vets to not be supportive of home testing. We like to because it keeps our cats safe.
 
Wink is such a handsome boy! You would never know that he isn't a youngster. It's very encouraging to see how he looks now - hard to believe he had neuropathy! I feel much better now knowing that they can make a full recovery.

When I adopted Ziggy I wasn't particularly attached to him. Someone had turned him in to the shelter because they had no time for him. Being 6, I knew his chances of being adopted were slim and it always breaks my heart to hear all of the excuses for getting rid of a kitty who has lived with you that long. He had a time adjusting when I brought him home. His favourite thing to do was stalk my other kitties! When he got sick he became so needy and I then realised how attached I had become. (Excuse the spelling, my son and family live in England and my iPad is set to their language so my grandchildren don't make fun of me, thinking I can't spell).

When I see the vet tomorrow I will tell him I would like to get the Methy B-12. I had asked him about this once before and he said the neuropathy would get better when the sugar was regulated. Frustrating! I have not seen the DM before and I feel that he was better off on the Acana or Fromm's as far as the quality goes. I used to feed EVO to all of my kitties, but with all of the recalls and the fact that PG now owns them I switched foods. I assume that I will be able to deal more with the food issue when I learn how to home test. This will be my next mission! I have read through so many postings and learned so much I haven't read so much about home testing yet since I wan't to that point but it seems like understanding the curve may take some time to get.
 
You might find it helpful to print out and read the 2010 AAHA guidelines, then discuss them with the vet.

Also, check out Jasper's Story about using methyl B-12 for diabetic neuropathy. While it is true that glucose regulation will help, the methyl B-12 will help faster.
 
You do not need a prescription for the Methylcobalamin. It's available over-the-counter.

Acana and Fromm's do have higher quality ingredients but the problem with them is that they are too high in carbs for diabetic cats. They may be grain free, but they have simply replaced grains with other carbs like potatoes, peas, fruits and other vegetables. No cat needs all those fruits and veggies, not like us beans ( short for human beings).

We use this Food Chart, by vet Dr. Lisa Pierson to find canned foods with <10% carb content for our extra sweet kitties. Lots of good choices there for every budget.

Dr. Lisa is a member here. She puts together this Food Chart with many of the foods available in the US, putting in hundreds of hours of work getting the data from the manufacturers and calculating the values.

We have a shopping list of supplies if you would like.

We also have tips on the how to's of home testing tips and tricks for home testing.

This one is about how to make your cat more accepting of the testing process or the psychology of home testing. Written by member Kpassa for her feral kitty Michaleangelo.

Let us know how the vet visit goes today.
 
The methylcobalamin does take 4-6 weeks to work, and your vet is right, it will work better when Ziggy is regulated. You can get the pills from any health food store (choose methylcobalamin pills without any sugars or xylitol) or buy the cat version zobaline online. No prescription or anything needed.

Definately home test first then change the food. Best to be safe since a food change can reduce the blood sugar a lot.

Good luck at the vet and let us know how it goes!

Wendy
 
Back to the vet today to check on Ziggy and was told that he was up to 8 units of the PZI which they switched him to on Monday. Seems that he is not reacting to insulin like he should. I have read the AAHA guidelines tonight and found it very interesting. I think I spend at least 4 hrs a day reading on the subject and hopefully am retaining most of the info. I am going to get the Methylcobalamine tomorrow and take it by the vet's so I can get him started on it now. As much as I want him home with me they are keeping him, checking sugar and monitoring him and not charging me anything. I have to remember how good they have been, keeping him while I am out of town and only xharging me $5 a day for giving the insulin, etc. I think he feels bad that we are having so much trouble. I also have a cocker that I rescued that is blind/deaf and was just diagnosed with Cushing's. He has a terrible skin condition which gives me a hard time. He treats him weekly and never charges me anything for him except for the meds.

On the food chart do you go by the carbs on the left side of the page? It's amazing to see how many of the "better foods" or so they say, are so high in carbs. My other 3 kitties have adjusted to the wet food without a problem. If I put any dry down they just ignore it.

I did want to mention that Ziggy has gone from 23lbs in July of 2011 to 16lbs now. I think that is way to much to lose. I really wish I had known about this group when he was first diagnosed. I would have definitely changed the food before starting the insulin. Do you know of any other kitties that don't react to insulin? I haven't researched this yet but it does concern me.

Thanks for the list of supplies, etc. When I get to this place I will definitely have everything in place for him.

Emilie and Ziggy
 
On the food chart you go by column C, % calories from carbs. You want that under 10%.

What are they feeding him at the vet? If its dry I am not surprised if they can't get him regulated. Suggest they try a low carb wet ;)

Wendy
 
Ziggy is still at the vet with numbers still over 400. He also has a bad UTI. Monday I am going to take the wet food of MY choice and ask that they start him on it. Hopefully this will help. They are thinking that he is insulin resistant - has anyone heard of this happening? I need to read less the next day or two and clear my mind. I think I am getting confused by all of the info at once - we just need to take one step at a time.

The food chart is so helpful. My other 3 babies are having no trouble adjusting to these foods so that is one thing out of the way. I think it will be so much easier having them all on the same page. @-)

Emilie
 
Yes, there are conditions which may result in insulin resistance - Acromegaly, Cushings, and Insulin Autoantibodies (IAA).

However, if they are feeding high carb food, it is no wonder they can't get control of the glucose levels. They need to be feeding low carb canned or raw food. An inexpensive choice is Friskies pates. Fancy Feast Classic pates are also good choices.
 
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