New Member - Vet strongly against home testing.

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Judy and Freckles said:
My vet wanted me to do the same thing. Freckles has a voracious appetite too. I found that by feeding smaller meals more often, she was much more content. I use an autofeeder so I don't have to remember about the time, so she gets 5 small meals during a 12 hour period.
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I just checked out Freckles' spreadsheet and I see you have all her feeding info in there, and weight info and so much more. I keep going back and forth between feeling like I've got this, and overwhelmed. lol.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
I think I do want to lower it more. I got a 70 reading about 4.5 hours after administering the 1.75 u of insulin. I think that's a bit of a low reading, but I am not knowledgeable enough to know for sure. I thought somewhere on the forum I read that you should only increase/decrease by .25 u at a time, so I didn't want to decrease too fast. Would it be safe to go down to 1.5 tonight?
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Yes, please decrease tonight. That 70 was still safe, but lower than we want to "aim for" on Caninsulin (too close to the danger zone, <50).

So glad you've got the testing going! Look what Butters is getting up to!
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Yes, please decrease tonight. That 70 was still safe, but lower than we want to "aim for" on Caninsulin (too close to the danger zone, <50).

So glad you've got the testing going! Look what Butters is getting up to!
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I'm glad, too. Even though I have a long way to go to consistently get readings. I can't thank every person on here enough for helping Butters and me.

I will decrease for sure. Is another .25 enough of a decrease, which would make her dose 1.5 as of tonight. Or do I decrease .5 and give her 1.25 U?

If you nor anyone else is unable to respond, I will decrease by the smaller amount and give her 1.5.
 
Hi, I have one more general question. I have learned from you that Caninsulin is not necessarily the best for cats, though it seems many have been prescribed it and it has obviously worked well for some. What is the general consensus on Lantus? Is it more kitty friendly?
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Thank you all for your replies! I will reply to them but I want to update with the latest first, and a question. But please know how much your responses have given me a boost and helped me in my resolve to do what is best for Butters. And I will do a spreadsheet.

She woke me up 90 minutes early and was heaving like she was trying to vomit (not a normal furball sound) but was then seemingly perfectly fine after. Hopefully it was nothing. I tried a preshot test this morning. I was successful in jabbing her ear about four times but many jabs and treats later, I unfortunately could not get a blood droplet to form. Not enough for the monitor. I ended up feeding her 20 minutes later than normal. So no AMPS reading.

I have now read the article on Caninsulin and am going to delay the insulin for 20 minutes after her meal, which is about 10 minutes from now. Is it worth trying to test her post-food but pre-insulin? Would that tell me anything? In the absence of no test readings, think I am going to have to just proceed with the normal dose. I have to go out in 3 hours and will be gone for about 3-4 hours. I don’t want to leave her alone if it is not safe.

Should i just try and test whenever I can while I try to get the hang of it?

Thanks!
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Honestly, I’m concerned that this vet didn’t immediately want a glucose curve done either in clinic or at home since that seems to be the best way to gauge how the insulin is doing throughout the day for a new diagnosis, and determining dose.

I’m on my second FreeStyle Libre which is a little disc that Buddy had ‘installed’ on his side (he’s a big boy so it’s ok there) and it gives me such peace of mind because as long as you scan it regularly for readings, it captures the WHOLE day and graphs it for you.

I have an iPhone so I just downloaded the app and can scan it with my phone (no reader needed) and I’m honestly debating getting a third one after this one is up (they only last 14 days and less on some cats if they try to scratch at it or it isn’t properly put on them.) It was $95 for me here in Alberta, Canada and my vet only charged $30 to put it on him.

I’m in a rare boat where my vet is fantastic and has my full trust, they are a holistic clinic and in my corner for home testing and everything. They explained to me that while Lantus tends to be the more generally better option for cats, there are still cats that don’t respond well to it and it really depends on the cat. Based on how Buddy reacted to it, they’re not eliminating it as an option but advised against it right now because he has improved so much so quickly on Caninsulin and I’m not looking to change it anytime soon because that means having to curve and find the right dose all over again.

All that being said, this is a very individualized experience so the best you can do is monitor monitor monitor, find a better vet, and keep connected to this community.
 
I think just down to 1.5U, unless someone more familiar with Caninsulin disagrees.

Lantus is an excellent insulin for kitties! Other good ones are Levemir and Prozinc.

If you go with Lantus or Levemir, you'll have to do a little homework and read up a bit in the stickies in the Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir) forum before switching. Those are so-called "depot" insulin and they work rather differently than an in-and-out insulin like Caninsulin. It's worth the time, though, as the depot (essentially, storing a bit of each shot for later use) is one of the things that helps keep numbers flat and steady, with fewer of the dramatic swings that you get in a harsh insulin like Caninsulin. It's true that there are some kitties it doesn't "agree with", but that's true for any insulin, so don't let that concern stop you from trying it if you want to give it a shot.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
I think I do want to lower it more. I got a 70 reading about 4.5 hours after administering the 1.75 u of insulin. I think that's a bit of a low reading, but I am not knowledgeable enough to know for sure. I thought somewhere on the forum I read that you should only increase/decrease by .25 u at a time, so I didn't want to decrease too fast. Would it be safe to go down to 1.5 tonight?
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Whooohoo great numbers! Yes let's try 1.5.
 
JanetNJ said:
Whooohoo great numbers! Yes let's try 1.5.
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I tried the 1.5 for yesterday's evening dose. This morning, I did the AMPS test, which took about ten minutes, several tries and test strips before getting a reading. The reading was 443! Does it seem high? The few numbers I have from her are kind of all over the place. Is it possible that it was higher because I stressed her out taking so long to get blood from her ear? I was giving her dehydrated chicken treats throughout the process, but still had to do some restraining which she absolutely hates.
 
Buddy’s Ma said:
Honestly, I’m concerned that this vet didn’t immediately want a glucose curve done either in clinic or at home since that seems to be the best way to gauge how the insulin is doing throughout the day for a new diagnosis, and determining dose.

I’m on my second FreeStyle Libre which is a little disc that Buddy had ‘installed’ on his side (he’s a big boy so it’s ok there) and it gives me such peace of mind because as long as you scan it regularly for readings, it captures the WHOLE day and graphs it for you.

I have an iPhone so I just downloaded the app and can scan it with my phone (no reader needed) and I’m honestly debating getting a third one after this one is up (they only last 14 days and less on some cats if they try to scratch at it or it isn’t properly put on them.) It was $95 for me here in Alberta, Canada and my vet only charged $30 to put it on him.

I’m in a rare boat where my vet is fantastic and has my full trust, they are a holistic clinic and in my corner for home testing and everything. They explained to me that while Lantus tends to be the more generally better option for cats, there are still cats that don’t respond well to it and it really depends on the cat. Based on how Buddy reacted to it, they’re not eliminating it as an option but advised against it right now because he has improved so much so quickly on Caninsulin and I’m not looking to change it anytime soon because that means having to curve and find the right dose all over again.

All that being said, this is a very individualized experience so the best you can do is monitor monitor monitor, find a better vet, and keep connected to this community.
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I'm not going back to that vet.

The continuous monitor sounds like a wonderful idea, perhaps to try once at some point and see what it's like to get continuous numbers. Pretty sure most vets in Toronto, Canada will charge at least double to install it. I could walk into her old vet's office for anything less than $60. A visit with a concern would be $90 plus costs of any tests. :(

Your signature notes you also use a freestyle lite? Is that for when you don't have a Libre on Buddy?

Does Buddy ever try to lick or bite off the Libre?

Too early for me to tell how Butters is doing on Caninsulin, I think. Need more testing numbers. And you raise an excellent point. If Butters improves greatly on it, then I won't likely rush to switch her, either. I more just want to know that I work with a vet who is open to and educated on other options.

I have been searching far and wide for a holistic clinic. They are very difficult to find. I had talked to a holistic vet just after Butters was diagnosed. She doesn't practice at a clinic, only home visits. She tells you what tests to get and you have to find a clinic. With our COVID situation here, she is only doing consults over the phone. Also due to COVID, almost all vet clinics currently make you drop your pet off to them outside their clinic. You have to wait outside and the vet will call you after the exam. It is all just even more challenging to try to get Butters the best care right now.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
This morning, I did the AMPS test, which took about ten minutes, several tries and test strips before getting a reading.
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I can understand your frustration! With all of the added expenses with a newly diagnosed kitty, I could just cry when I waste a test strip :arghh:! Those babies might as well be made of gold lol! I use too many of them to justify a waste :banghead:
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Too early for me to tell how Butters is doing on Caninsulin, I think. Need more testing numbers. And you raise an excellent point. If Butters improves greatly on it, then I won't likely rush to switch her, either.
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My Ducote was diagnosed on 5/8/20 and started on Vetsulin (Caninsulin) as well. As you can see in my spreadsheet, it seems to not be doing the trick :( I told myself that I would give it time and see if he starts to improve (and a couple of days ago I thought that maybe we were making a breakthrough) but it is not looking much better than when we first began (even with moving up from 1 unit to 4.5). I ordered Prozinc a few days ago and I am hoping to change him over mid June. I will do the same with Prozinc (administer, record data, screen progress, make a decision on if it is effective). All we can do is try. I ugly cried for many days when he got diagnosed. I couldn't eat, sleep, or even hold a thought that wasn't about diabetes. I was a wreck! As frustrating as it gets, we do not have super powers and we can't magically snap our fingers and make the numbers better (believe me I have tried lol) :p
 
Heather & Ducote said:
My Ducote was diagnosed on 5/8/20 and started on Vetsulin (Caninsulin) as well. As you can see in my spreadsheet, it seems to not be doing the trick :( I told myself that I would give it time and see if he starts to improve (and a couple of days ago I thought that maybe we were making a breakthrough) but it is not looking much better than when we first began (even with moving up from 1 unit to 4.5). I ordered Prozinc a few days ago and I am hoping to change him over mid June. I will do the same with Prozinc (administer, record data, screen progress, make a decision on if it is effective). All we can do is try. I ugly cried for many days when he got diagnosed. I couldn't eat, sleep, or even hold a thought that wasn't about diabetes. I was a wreck! As frustrating as it gets, we do not have super powers and we can't magically snap our fingers and make the numbers better (believe me I have tried lol) :p
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Ducote is such a beauty! All cats are awesome but I have an extra soft spot for the gingers. :)

I look into my garbage can filled with "error" test strips and I feel like I am just throwing out ten dollar bills, lol. The learning curve is steep, and I don't want Butters to start hating me because I'm constantly trying to poke at her ears. It's funny how suddenly the insulin injections seem like a walk in the park compared to the BG testing!

I hear you. I am still in the stage where I am barely eating, sleeping or thinking about anything other than diabetes. It feels very all consuming, mostly rife with worry that she could go hypo at any second and I wouldn't be able to save her. And the more I read, the more questions I have. Every time I get a BG reading, I am wondering what it means and whether I can do something different.

It is amazing that you care so much, and proactively trying to do everything you can to get an improvement with him! I hope that the Prozinc works out when you do the switch!
 
I've been wanting to tell you just how adorable Butters is! WHAT A SWEET FACE!
Believe me I was in your shoes many, many, years ago. (All of us have) Its the growing pains of diabetes. One day, you will be saying the same things, to a new person that finds this site. Trouble passed away, many years ago but NOT from diabetes. I am, out of gratefulness, still here...Paying it forward, in any way I can.;):coffee:

Please give Butters some chin scritches from me.:bighug:
jeanne
 
Butters & Lyla said:
I tried the 1.5 for yesterday's evening dose. This morning, I did the AMPS test, which took about ten minutes, several tries and test strips before getting a reading. The reading was 443! Does it seem high? The few numbers I have from her are kind of all over the place. Is it possible that it was higher because I stressed her out taking so long to get blood from her ear? I was giving her dehydrated chicken treats throughout the process, but still had to do some restraining which she absolutely hates.
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it might have been a bit of stress... looks like two hours later it's already dropped over 100 points, and the vetsulin should just be kicking in right now.
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
I've been wanting to tell you just how adorable Butters is! WHAT A SWEET FACE!
Believe me I was in your shoes many, many, years ago. (All of us have) Its the growing pains of diabetes. One day, you will be saying the same things, to a new person that finds this site. Trouble passed away, many years ago but NOT from diabetes. I am, out of gratefulness, still here...Paying it forward, in any way I can.;):coffee:

Please give Butters some chin scritches from me.:bighug:
jeanne
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Thanks Jeanne! And Butters enjoyed the chin scratches very much. :cat: Those are her favourite!

I'm so sorry that Trouble passed. I still miss the kitties that have come and gone from my life. They are all special. It says a lot that you continue to contribute here. You are very kind. I can already tell this is such a special community that has already helped me and Butters tremendously. I look forward to helping others, too.
 
At some point very soon, could you start a new thread for Butters? It's very hard to offer good information when there are so many posts to wade through. We try to cap the number of posts in a thread at 50. (Although 25 would be better!!) You can link the posts together by copy and pasting the the URL into your new post.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
I'm not going back to that vet.

The continuous monitor sounds like a wonderful idea, perhaps to try once at some point and see what it's like to get continuous numbers. Pretty sure most vets in Toronto, Canada will charge at least double to install it. I could walk into her old vet's office for anything less than $60. A visit with a concern would be $90 plus costs of any tests. :(

Your signature notes you also use a freestyle lite? Is that for when you don't have a Libre on Buddy?

Does Buddy ever try to lick or bite off the Libre?

Too early for me to tell how Butters is doing on Caninsulin, I think. Need more testing numbers. And you raise an excellent point. If Butters improves greatly on it, then I won't likely rush to switch her, either. I more just want to know that I work with a vet who is open to and educated on other options.

I have been searching far and wide for a holistic clinic. They are very difficult to find. I had talked to a holistic vet just after Butters was diagnosed. She doesn't practice at a clinic, only home visits. She tells you what tests to get and you have to find a clinic. With our COVID situation here, she is only doing consults over the phone. Also due to COVID, almost all vet clinics currently make you drop your pet off to them outside their clinic. You have to wait outside and the vet will call you after the exam. It is all just even more challenging to try to get Butters the best care right now.
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I HEAR THAT. I legitimately hate going back to the parking lot of the hospital where Buddy was first admitted because it was all around so traumatic, but covid has made it much worse. Even doing the same at our regular vet's makes me uneasy. So weird to not be in the appt with them.

Buddy doesn't try to pick at it at all but he has a big collar for his esophageal tube that he's fed through so he couldn't even if he wanted to, and he's also the gentlest giant around. He rarely picks at anything or throws a fit unlike his brother Dexter...the Libre wouldn't make it a day on him haha. They definitely balance each other out!

It might be worth it to try a virtual consult and get advice from the holistic vet. I assume she can prescribe you homeopathic and herbal remedies too? Buddy was put on an herb called San Ren Tang for his pancreas and colon and it has seemed to make a world of a difference. This is alongside some western treatments too like Cerenia for nausea, Buprenorphine for pain, a course of Metronidazole, etc. That's why I love holistic practitioners, best of both worlds!

Honestly, I bought the Lite to home test for both accuracy while Buddy has a Libre, and to get used to it for when he doesn't have one, but I have been so unsuccessful drawing blood and it was stressing the F out of me (and Bud) that I've taken a break. I've checked the Libre against the vet's numbers multiple times and it's been super close so I'm not concerned, I know I need to learn how to do it for long term management though.

You should be super proud of yourself that you're already getting the hang of it, Butters is lucky to have you as her mama :cat:
 
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