New member: Tommie, diagnosed on Sept 26 and starting Prozinc soon

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Ekzakte

Ekzakte

Member Since 2023
Hi all, on Sept 26 Tommie (9 years old) was diagnosed with DM. To complicate matters, he's actually my neighbor's cat, but we have since agreed on co-parenting and I will also become the main caregiver. Also, I'm located in Europe (The Netherlands) and I will try my hardest to comply to US-measurements.

Tommie was actually not doing so well since summer. He always weighed between 11 and 12 lbs, but his weight was down to 10 lbs in July and by mid-September he had dropped to 9.5 lbs. He drank very much water and was always hungry. Tommie is (was) an outdoor cat and Tommie lives alternately/simultaneously with me and the neighbor, so a bit tricky monitoring at times. I finally took him to the vet on sept 26 and after a blood test, this showed a BG of 612.

Initially, my neighbor and I decided to treat the DM with dietary changes. This was also due to his irregular shifts. He used to eat kibble (freefeeding) and was given half a bag of wrong wet food in the afternoon. We purchased an automatic feeder (Catmate C500) and he now gets Animonda Carny Adult wet food 4x a day. I have purchased Thrive kibble just to be safe, in case he didn't transition well to just wet food. But this turned out not to be a problem, so I now throw those around the room every now and then so he keeps moving around a bit :p.

Tommie also suffers from weakness/neuropathy in his hind legs, so I have also now included methyl B12 + folic acid in his diet. I also add 1/2 a teaspoon Fenugreek powder to his dinner.

I purchased a glucometer (Freestyle Freedom Lite) and at first he seemed to do well on only changing his diet. I had also put him on a gain weight diet (?): 400 grams of Carny Adult per day instead of 300 grams. But I did notice that he was getting more and more hungry again. So I did a 12h glucose curve which I will share below. I realize that eating more, also means he needs more insulin to break down the glucose again. Fortunately, he did regain some weight (from 9 lbs to 9.5 lbs), but he won't gain more weight without insulin I'm afraid.

Glucose curve without insulin 02-11-2023:
03:00 am food (100 g Carny Adult)
08:00 am BG 273 mg/dl
09:00 am food (100 g Carny Adult)
10:00 am BG 372 mg/dl
12:00 am BG 333 mg/dl
02:00 pm BG 257 mg/dl
03:00 pm food (100 g Carny Adult)
04:00 pm BG 268 mg/dl
06:00 pm BG 322 mg/dl
08:00 pm BG 320 mg/dl
09:00 pm food (100 g Carny Adult)

So I called the vet today to discuss starting insulin. They want to give Prozinc, Friday we have appointment to learn/start injecting him. I am located in The Netherlands, so the choice is between Caninsulin or Prozinc. A prescription for Lantus is only an option if Prozinc or Caninsulin has proven to NOT work. I do expect a little discussion on friday about my use of a human meter, the vet assistant (and also the diabetes specialist vet assistent at the clinic) has already let me known she prefers if I use a pet glucose meter (G-Pet: strips are more than twice as expensive -_-). I do admit, I am kinda nervous about starting insuline.. Ideal scenario would be that Tommie achieves remission, but I am also told that that is more likely to happen on Lantus than with Prozinc. But again: local rules force me to first try Prozinc and even Caninsulin before Lantus may be given.
 
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Welcome @Ekzakte and Tommy. You couldn't have found a better group to join. I have to say without the advice from the experienced members giving me their advice Tyler wouldn't be in remission since 1-24-21 knock on wood
Don't want to overwhelme you but here is some information :cat:
Most of us feed our cats the bigger meal at AMPS (AM Pre Shot, the first test you do in the AM) and also the PMPS (PM Pre Shot first test you do 12 hours after you test the AMPS)
You need to withhold feeding 2 hours before you you test the AMPS and the PMPS tests because you don't want those BG numbers to be influenced by food

Most members feed their cats more than 4 times a day , it's easier on the pancreas.
Great job doing the curve and starting the Methyl B-12
Tyler had diabetic neuropathy ,once regulated and giving the Methyl B-12 he was back to running, jumping , etc, it took about 2 months but I did see an improvement about every 2 weeks or so

I will tag some members for you soon to take a look at it.
There is no need to use a pet meter at all, our numbers are based in human meters
Just tell your vet you can't afford the price of the test strips for the pet meter

Have you seen this link
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-vit-b12-and-other-need-to-know-stuff.137376/
This link also includes a video on how to give injections, I have always given Tyler the injection standing behind him. I just pull up on the scruff , you will feel like an indentation when you feel it with your finger and that's where you give the injection
Don't be nervous ,it's not that hard :cat:

About the kibble
I found this posted by one of our members and copied it for you
Up until now the lowest carb dry food in the UK has been Thrive (and latterly the 'chicken' Thrive) at close to 9% cals from carbs.
But now Feringa are producing a new 'cold pressed' dry food that seems lower in carbs than the Thrive.
This is only available from Zooplus at the moment. And it is more expensive than the Thrive. But it is available in small 400g packs, so it's not a lot of dosh to fork out if you want to try it on a kibble-loving kitty. It may also make a useful 'transition' food when transitioning from high carb dry to low carb wet.

It comes in two flavours, chicken and turkey. The chicken seems slightly lower in carbs than the turkey.
The percentage of calories from carbs seems to be between 3.8% and 5.2% for the chicken flavour, and between 4.5% to 6% for the turkey flavour. (The moisture content - according to email from manufacturer - is between 9.5% and 11%, so I did two calculations for each flavour.)

Note: Do remember that it is important to be hometesting blood glucose on a daily basis before switching to a lower carb diet. Reducing the carb content of the diet can reduce blood glucose, and the insulin dose may need to be reduced accordingly so as to avoid hypo.

Here's the product info on Zooplus:
https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/feringa/1033421

And here's a pic of the food:

b800.jpg
 
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Ekzakte said:
). I do admit, I am kinda nervous about starting insuline.. Ideal scenario would be that Tommie achieves remission, but I am also told that that is more likely to happen on Lantus than with Prozinc. But again: local rules force me to first try Prozinc and even Caninsulin before Lantus may be given.
Click to expand...
Prozinc is a good insulin also, I'm pretty sure I have seen cats on Prozinc have gone into remission.

Make sure you get the U-40 syrunges with the half unit markings for Prozinc, your vet might not have the ones with the half unit markings. We use these because we adjust the doses by 0.25 units at a time and these make it easier to do even though they don't have 0.25 increments ,they have 0.5 increments

When you are all set up with everything we ask you to set up your signature and our spreadsheet
Tap on the blue link
Here is the link so you can set up your signature and spreadsheet
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.

The signature is at the end of everyone's post in gray ,information about our cats
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Also almost all of us use human meters that's what our numbers are based on

Just to show you about the Spreadsheet
Don't be nervous about the spreadsheet
About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers



You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

You can read all about Prozinc here read all the yellow stickys
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/

If you need help with setting up your spreadsheet just ask, we have a wonderful member who will do it for you

Just keep asking questions
 
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Ekzakte said:
Hi all, on Sept 26 Tommie (9 years old) was diagnosed with DM. To complicate matters, he's actually my neighbor's cat, but we have since agreed on co-parenting and I will also become the main caregiver. Also, I'm located in Europe (The Netherlands) and I will try my hardest to comply to US-measurements.

Tommie was actually not doing so well since summer. He always weighed between 11 and 12 lbs, but his weight was down to 10 lbs in July and by mid-September he had dropped to 9.5 lbs. He drank very much water and was always hungry. Tommie is (was) an outdoor cat and Tommie lives alternately/simultaneously with me and the neighbor, so a bit tricky monitoring at times. I finally took him to the vet on sept 26 and after a blood test, this showed a BG of 612.

Initially, my neighbor and I decided to treat the DM with dietary changes. This was also due to his irregular shifts. He used to eat kibble (freefeeding) and was given half a bag of wrong wet food in the afternoon. We purchased an automatic feeder (Catmate C500) and he now gets Animonda Carny Adult wet food 4x a day. I have purchased Thrive kibble just to be safe, in case he didn't transition well to just wet food. But this turned out not to be a problem, so I now throw those around the room every now and then so he keeps moving around a bit :p.

Tommie also suffers from weakness/neuropathy in his hind legs, so I have also now included methyl B12 + folic acid in his diet. I also add 1/2 a teaspoon Fenugreek powder to his dinner.

I purchased a glucometer (Freestyle Freedom Lite) and at first he seemed to do well on only changing his diet. I had also put him on a gain weight diet (?): 400 grams of Carny Adult per day instead of 300 grams. But I did notice that he was getting more and more hungry again. So I did a 12h glucose curve which I will share below. I realize that eating more, also means he needs more insulin to break down the glucose again. Fortunately, he did regain some weight (from 9 lbs to 9.5 lbs), but he won't gain more weight without insulin I'm afraid.

Glucose curve without insulin 02-11-2023:
03:00 am food (100 g Carny Adult)
08:00 am BG 273 mg/dl
09:00 am food (100 g Carny Adult)
10:00 am BG 372 mg/dl
12:00 am BG 333 mg/dl
02:00 pm BG 257 mg/dl
03:00 pm food (100 g Carny Adult)
04:00 pm BG 268 mg/dl
06:00 pm BG 322 mg/dl
08:00 pm BG 320 mg/dl
09:00 pm food (100 g Carny Adult)

So I called the vet today to discuss starting insulin. They want to give Prozinc, Friday we have appointment to learn/start injecting him. I am located in The Netherlands, so the choice is between Caninsulin or Prozinc. A prescription for Lantus is only an option if Prozinc or Caninsulin has proven to NOT work. I do expect a little discussion on friday about my use of a human meter, the vet assistant (and also the diabetes specialist vet assistent at the clinic) has already let me known she prefers if I use a pet glucose meter (G-Pet: strips are more than twice as expensive -_-). I do admit, I am kinda nervous about starting insuline.. Ideal scenario would be that Tommie achieves remission, but I am also told that that is more likely to happen on Lantus than with Prozinc. But again: local rules force me to first try Prozinc and even Caninsulin before Lantus may be given.
Click to expand...
Tagging a few members to take a look at your curb without starting Prozinc yet

@Suzanne & Darcy
@tiffmaxee
@Bandit's Mom
@Wendy&Neko
@Suzanne & Darcy
 
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Ekzakte said:
Hi all, on Sept 26 Tommie (9 years old) was diagnosed with DM. To complicate matters, he's actually my neighbor's cat, but we have since agreed on co-parenting and I will also become the main caregiver. Also, I'm located in Europe (The Netherlands) and I will try my hardest to comply to US-measurements.

Tommie was actually not doing so well since summer. He always weighed between 11 and 12 lbs, but his weight was down to 10 lbs in July and by mid-September he had dropped to 9.5 lbs. He drank very much water and was always hungry. Tommie is (was) an outdoor cat and Tommie lives alternately/simultaneously with me and the neighbor, so a bit tricky monitoring at times. I finally took him to the vet on sept 26 and after a blood test, this showed a BG of 612.

Initially, my neighbor and I decided to treat the DM with dietary changes. This was also due to his irregular shifts. He used to eat kibble (freefeeding) and was given half a bag of wrong wet food in the afternoon. We purchased an automatic feeder (Catmate C500) and he now gets Animonda Carny Adult wet food 4x a day. I have purchased Thrive kibble just to be safe, in case he didn't transition well to just wet food. But this turned out not to be a problem, so I now throw those around the room every now and then so he keeps moving around a bit :p.

Tommie also suffers from weakness/neuropathy in his hind legs, so I have also now included methyl B12 + folic acid in his diet. I also add 1/2 a teaspoon Fenugreek powder to his dinner.

I purchased a glucometer (Freestyle Freedom Lite) and at first he seemed to do well on only changing his diet. I had also put him on a gain weight diet (?): 400 grams of Carny Adult per day instead of 300 grams. But I did notice that he was getting more and more hungry again. So I did a 12h glucose curve which I will share below. I realize that eating more, also means he needs more insulin to break down the glucose again. Fortunately, he did regain some weight (from 9 lbs to 9.5 lbs), but he won't gain more weight without insulin I'm afraid.

Glucose curve without insulin 02-11-2023:
03:00 am food (100 g Carny Adult)
08:00 am BG 273 mg/dl
09:00 am food (100 g Carny Adult)
10:00 am BG 372 mg/dl
12:00 am BG 333 mg/dl
02:00 pm BG 257 mg/dl
03:00 pm food (100 g Carny Adult)
04:00 pm BG 268 mg/dl
06:00 pm BG 322 mg/dl
08:00 pm BG 320 mg/dl
09:00 pm food (100 g Carny Adult)

So I called the vet today to discuss starting insulin. They want to give Prozinc, Friday we have appointment to learn/start injecting him. I am located in The Netherlands, so the choice is between Caninsulin or Prozinc. A prescription for Lantus is only an option if Prozinc or Caninsulin has proven to NOT work. I do expect a little discussion on friday about my use of a human meter, the vet assistant (and also the diabetes specialist vet assistent at the clinic) has already let me known she prefers if I use a pet glucose meter (G-Pet: strips are more than twice as expensive -_-). I do admit, I am kinda nervous about starting insuline.. Ideal scenario would be that Tommie achieves remission, but I am also told that that is more likely to happen on Lantus than with Prozinc. But again: local rules force me to first try Prozinc and even Caninsulin before Lantus may be given.
Click to expand...
I am gad that you wrote to us. His numbers in your curve without insulin is helpful. He isn’t doing that badly, but he does need some insulin support. We can help you with the ProZinc (or Lantus/glargine if he gets to that point.). I am very happy that you have already changed his diet to low carb wet food. That is so important in helping reduce the BG. You have already helped him a lot. Let me get back to you more in a few minutes. I need to feed my cats.
 
So the best thing you can do to begin with is to start a spreadsheet (which we can help with if you have any trouble) and to begin testing. I would simply explain that the pet meter strips are too expensive for your budget and keep using the human blood glucose meter. Before pet meters were invented, vets had been using human glucose meters for years.
 
Just for clarification: Tommie is now on an all wet low carb diet? Correct?


If that is correct, then I would recommend a starting dose of .5 (one half) unit of ProZinc insulin. After we have your spreadsheet data seeing how he does on that dose and what his nadir is (lowest point in the cycle) we can make dose adjustments safely from that point.
 
Ekzakte said:
have purchased Thrive kibble just to be safe, in case he didn't transition well to just wet food. But this turned out not to be a problem, so I now throw those around the room every now and then so he keeps moving around a bit :p.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't feed any kibble at all even if it's low carb.Maybe get one of those laser pointers to get him moving around
 
Thank you @Diane Tyler's Mom. I will set up a signature and spreadsheet as soon as possible. And thank you for the link with video about injections :)

@Suzanne & Darcy: His wet food is low carb, I believe between 3% - 5%. He's doing great on only wet food, except he's hungry again after 2 hours. I will look into purchasing another automatic feeder so feeding time will be every 3 hours, instead of every 6 hours. He's always been very foodmotivated (even before the DM), so he tends to drive me crazy sometimes haha

Will be back in a few hours, need to go back inot my Teams meeting..
 
That’s great about the wet food and actually very good that he wants to eat frequently. With diabetic cats, it’s important for them to eat snacks of low carb wet food during the early portion of the cycle. A snack at +2 and +4 is a good starting place. When he starts insulin and you get some tests recorded, we will have a better idea of when the ProZinc onsets (kicks in) for him and hopefully we can find the hour of his typical nadir. We usually don’t recommend feeding much after nadir because it can shorten the duration of the insulin and drive numbers up prematurely. Be sure to give him a low carb treat, though, with every ear prick. A little freeze dried all meat treat or a bit of boiled chicken will do nicely.
 
You might be able to get these in the Netherlands for a treat, copied it from the UK list
LOW CARB CAT TREATS/REWARDS
Many of the most popular commercial cat treats are laden with carbohydrates. Avoid if possible. :stop:
Try to stick with treats that are entirely made from meat or fish. These are the lowest in carbohydrate.
Popular freeze dried treats include; Thrive, Pet Munchies, HiLife 100% meat, Wilko freeze dried treats, Orijen freeze dried treats, Iams 'naturally' pure meat treats. Also from Zooplus; Zoolove 'cat snacks', Cosma snackies (avoid the Cosma ‘Thai’ treats as these contain rice.), Wild Freedom lamb lung or chicken hearts (chicken hearts are a great source of taurine too!), Purizon cat snacks.
@Ekzakte

Edit remember if you need any help setting up your spreadsheet just ask ,we have a wonderful member who will be happy to do it for you just ask :cat:
 
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Than you both so much for the information. I have removed the kibble out of his diet. I have started him on 0.5u Prozinc last weekend. I want to keep him on that dose until I’m able to do a curve this weekend. I have updated my signature and spreadsheet
 
Good job! You are doing great with testing and the food change! I’m really proud of you. Let’s see how he does with some insulin support. His body will need a little time to adjust. I know we can help him. Keep up the good work and we will see where he is in a few days. If you have any questions or concerns, please ask.
 
Hi! I posted in the ProZinc subboard. Not to sure if it was the proper place. But I was wondering if someone could take a look at Tommie’s SS. I’m in the middle of a curve, but his numbers are high(ish) and wondering if I should increase to 1 u..
 
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