New member that is very grateful to be here!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Sprkl, Mar 29, 2021.

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  1. Sprkl

    Sprkl Member

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    Mar 28, 2021
    Hello,

    Our adorable little `Mouse' was just diagnosed with FD. While the shock is still quite deep, we're managing to understand what this means for her, as well as our elevated role in her care. We are so blessed to have found this amazing place to help calm our fears and we thank you in advance for your time and guidance.

    I would be most grateful for help with these 3 questions:

    1. While I have read that some here are using Accu-Check Aviva (soon to be discontinued) and/or Ascensia Countour BGMs, I have also found the following information from the ncbi website (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3317395) [see Table 5] indicating that these BGMs do not comply with Accuracy and ISO 15197:2010 standards. Does these mean that they are still `good enough' for testing for Feline Diabetes? We like the idea of using a `human meter', so that we can test our own human BG and are not actively researching pet only BGMs.

    2. Has anyone tried a vacuum lancing device? Our research has led us to a site that states that this method of blood sampling collection is faster and easier to perform, versus regular lancing devices after pre-warming the ear.

    3. One Google result led us to a comment that stated "To accurately measure blood glucose for animals (dogs and cats) an animal glucose meter must be used." The rationale was that meters for humans do not deliver accurate glucose readings for pets because of differences between the distribution of glucose in the blood in humans vs animals. (source: https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/Tx1SDLO4SV3VR5N/ref=ask_ql_ql_al_hza)

    Apparently:

    Humans: 58% of glucose is located in plasma and 42% of the glucose in the red blood cells.

    Cats: 93% of the glucose is located in plasma and only 7% of the glucose in the red blood cells.

    As you can see, the “distribution of glucose in the blood” in humans and in animals is very different. There is also a variation between the SIZE of the red blood cells between humans and animals.

    Even more, humans and pets have a different PCV (packed cell volume) – humans: 37-50%, dog: 37-55%, cat: 24-45%, meaning that the number of red blood cells differs greatly.

    Meters for humans are also calibrated only for human plasma. Meters made for cats and dogs are calibrated only for animal plasma. Using a human glucose meter to measure glucose levels in cats and dogs can deliver inaccurate results —ones that are often significantly different than what the pet’s true levels actually are.

    ---

    Again, we fully understand that many here are in fact using human BGM's to successfully monitor and treat their beloved felines; we just need a bit of guidance in determining which would be a good choice for use. As an aside, we are in Western Canada for those that may have suggestions for Canadian sources of BGMs.

    With gratitude, we thank you all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
    Reason for edit: correction
    Summer and Susie (GA) likes this.
  2. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    When I click on the link I get:
    This site can’t be reached
    Check if there is a typo in www.ncbi.nim.nih.gov.



    • If spelling is correct, try running Windows Network Diagnostics.
    DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN

    Not knowing the specific problem idenidified in the link I can't answer your quest. However, what we are looking for in our cats is consistency in BGs results, that is that the actual BG value can be off but it is consistancy off withing the reange of BGs. We are looking for trends in BG not the actual value,

    I tried one by the vacuum devices are made for areas that can get a good seal whick many places on a human body provides. However, we typically ear tips/periphery which does not lend to a good seal because one has tohave th seal are outside the actual ear. Also, the hair makes it harder to get a good seal.

    Correct but we are looking for a trend vice an accurate BG value.
     
  3. Sprkl

    Sprkl Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2021
    Thank you for your reply. I have corrected the URL in the post for question 1.
     
  4. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I find nothiung in the paper that would mean to me that the two meters with higher accuracy wouod mean that those two meter are unsat to use on cats.
     
  5. Sprkl

    Sprkl Member

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    Mar 28, 2021
    Thank you. I was not implying that either unit would be `unsat' for cats; I was just concerned that these two BGMs that I was considering are not ISO compliant in terms of accuracy. I understand that trending numbers are more important.
     
  6. Summer and Susie (GA)

    Summer and Susie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 20, 2020
    Most of the protocols of this message board are built around the testing with human meters. I started with the Alpha Trac 2, a pet meter, but since have changed to Relion Prime - a human meter. They say not to compare apples to oranges but there is some speculation that the pet meters read a little higher and the human meters read a little lower. A big difference between the Alpha Trac and the Relion meters are the cost of the test strips. I was paying a little over $50 (USD) for a cartridge of 50 Alpha Trac strips. I am paying $34 + for 100 Relion Prime test strips. I agree with Larry that the vacuum device is not convenient to testing the outer tip of a cat's ears. I don't think a lot of people on this site actually use a testing gauge. I just use the lancet. It is small, fits nicely in my fingers and I have better control. I don't worry too much if I end up poking through the entire ear tip. Supposedly, cats don't have any nerve endings in the very outer ear tip. Don't tell my Susie that because she has been known to flinch now and again. When testing, I found the two most helpful tips are to warm the ear tip with a rice sock and make sure there is a thin layer of vaseline where you will be testing. The warm ear sock helps to increase the blood flow to the surface and the vaseline helps to "bead" the blood up so it is easier to get the strip into. In other words, the blood does not spread out in the fur of the cats ear. Anyway, I am a newbie so I probably shouldn't be advising you. Hopefully, the experts will come along and give better advise. Do set up a spreadsheet. That is critical. Make sure you at least check the blood glucose before the two shots of insulin that you should give every 12 hours apart. You do not want to shoot if the glucose is too low.
     
  7. Sprkl

    Sprkl Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2021
    Thank you for your reply. Your generous information is very helpful.

    We have a consultation with our vet tomorrow to get this process started. I have amassed a small book of info that I've gathered and printed thanks to Google; it's probably waaay too much info to bombard the vet with, but that's what humans often do, right?

    She initially recommended 4 Glucose Curves (over the next 6 months) but I'd like to ask why we need four. Couldn't we have them do the initial curve, to determine a starting point, and we then begin home testing and record/report the numbers to mitigate dosage as-needed?

    It doesn't appear that the ReliOn Prime is available here in Canada, so I'll be checking eBay and Amazon.
     
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  8. Summer and Susie (GA)

    Summer and Susie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    I would do a lot more than four glucose curves over the period of 6 months. Yes, have them do the initial curve (and ask for a copy of the results so you can enter them into your spreadsheet). As you learn to test more and more, and you decide on a dosing protocol (TR or SLGS - read the "Sticky Notes"), you should do curves at least once every week just to see how the insulin is affecting her. When her highest and lowest numbers are. Remember, the amount of insulin you give her is not dependent on the preshot test numbers so much as her nadir, or lowest, glucose test of the day. With you being new, and having no data, you need to build the data base so you can learn how kitty reacts to the insulin. You can learn to do the curves at home and you will save some money. You need to set up a spreadsheet. @Bandit's Mom - maybe you can advise with this. I hope someone "experienced" will take over here. I will say, Sprkl, I am impressed with the amount of homework you have done. You are on the right site for the getting honest to goodness best advice for your kitty but it is crucial that you set up a spreadsheet. Just take a look at my Susie's at the end of all my post. Remember that "every cat is different" and this is a "marathon and not a sprint". Take care.
     
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  9. Sprkl

    Sprkl Member

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    Mar 28, 2021
    Thank you, again.

    I totally agree that we will be wanting/needing more curves but just wanted to make sure that our home monitor numbers would suffice to do it ourselves. While the BGM that the vet has is probably great, we're confident that we can find a workable human BGM...even here in Canada. LOL!

    The `Google' can be a double edged sword! I need to just focus on the handful of good, solid data that I have found and purge all of the other `noise' that's irrelevant or redundant. In this case, less is more...at least until we get started with our work to care for little Mouse.

    Don't second guess yourself; even though you are a newer member here, your information is still priceless to us.
     
    Summer and Susie (GA) likes this.
  10. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi you can start a new post such as Need suggestions on Canadian Meters
    We have a lot of members from Canada :cat:
     
  11. Sprkl

    Sprkl Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2021
    Thank you. I have created a new thread per your suggestion.
    At this point I'm leaning towards the Contour Next One BGM, but not leaning far enough to actually buy one right now. We have a consult with our vet this afternoon, but I do like the fact that additional blood can be applied to the same test strip. The cost of strips is still ~ $85 CAD/100 which may be the best we can expect.
     
  12. Summer and Susie (GA)

    Summer and Susie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    If you started a new post asking for help with meters you can get in Canada maybe someone will have other suggestions. I don't know what $85 CAD is in USD but I hope it is not too expensive.
     
  13. Sprkl

    Sprkl Member

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    Mar 28, 2021
    Thank you for the suggestion. After speaking with our vet we have opted for the Contour Next `One', primarily because it has the `Second Chance' feature that allows adding blood to the initial sample if it's not enough. Since we are still nervous about the whole process, I suspect that there will be a learning curve with the blood collection, so having a second chance may be useful, at least initially.

    I was a back taken aback when our vet stated that we would NOT be needing to test daily, once we have a good Glucose Curve to work from. I thought that it was suggested to test before every shot?
     
  14. Summer and Susie (GA)

    Summer and Susie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2020
    As much as we love our vets they do not always know the best thing we can do to help our kitties with diabetes. You absolutely should test everyday - especially before every insulin injection. You do not want to shoot kitty if his glucose is too low. You should also do around three test (if you can) during the daytime cycle (+3, +6 +9) and one at night - maybe before bed. There is so much to learn on this site which has kept many cats alive and healthy despite what our vets advise. Please set up a spreadsheet and fill in your "signature". We need to know what insulin you are using. If you are going with Lantus, Basaglar or Levemir please read the yellow "Sticky" notes at the beginning of the forum.

    We need to get more of the experts looking at your post @Sue and Luci, @Bandit's Mom, @tiffmaxee, @Wendy & Neko.

    Sprkl, look at my spreadsheet underneath this post. It says "Susie's Spreadsheet". I started off very badly. Not testing nearly enough. I dreaded the testing because I was afraid I was going to hurt Susie. It became easier and easier. Supposedly, cats don't have a lot of nerve endings in their ear tips. Anyway, I am very comfortable with it now. You will find it interesting to look at other people's spreadsheets.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
    Sue and Luci likes this.
  15. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Time for some blunt discussion about vets.

    Simply put most vets do not have training in treating feline diabetes. They have some - quote SOME - information about canine diabetes...very little on feline...so please find another vet OR start reading the information here and postpone the vet search until you have a better grasp of what's going on with your kitty.

    Testing is ESSENTIAL. It's easy to do, inexpensive and can save the life of your cat. That's the first and most important thing you can do.

    Next is getting some insulin to treat your cats diabetes. Read up on the stickie notes (yellow tabbed links) here on the forums and decide which insulin you prefer. I myself have experience with Lantus, Levemir and Tresiba...but not everyone goes that route. Those are gentle insulins that take a little while to work. DO NOT USE Novalin or a fast acting insulin - that's reserved for very special - supervised kitty situations. Not for newbies.

    Get a spreadsheet set up and start recording your test results.

    Make sure kitty is eating canned wet food - throw out the kibble or at least begin transitioning off all dry food.

    There is a lot of information here in this forum...and there may be another thread somewhere already? I'm late to work...so I really don't have time to look..if so, perhaps someone will combine my comments here with the most recent.

    Keep posting and keep asking questions! This is a great place to be and you'll get a lot of help and support - you'll need to read, read read though...

    Best of luck to you!!
     
    Summer and Susie (GA) likes this.
  16. Sprkl

    Sprkl Member

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    Mar 28, 2021
    @Summer and Susie

    @Sue and Luci

    Thank you so much. I do plan to test daily and we will be doing our first Glucose Curve tomorrow now that we have purchased the BGM and strips (Accensia Contour Next `One', since it has the `Second Chance' feature. Our vet said that with the sudden positive change in Mouse, she's curious to see some numbers. So are we!

    Our vet has not yet suggested we start insulin, since we told her that the revised diet that she recommended ~ 10 days ago has started to show some very positive change, albeit likely temporary. Mouse's water intake/urine output has dropped substantially; she's much more sociable, vocal, affectionate, etc., which is lovely. Perhaps this is the Honeymoon phase that some experience...even though we've yet to give her any insulin at all.

    I was also somewhat surprised that our vet did not know that insulin (at least Lantus) is available in Canada OTC. She thought that was only in the U.S.? I don't believe that it is available in the U.S. OTC...is it?

    *Edit* Mouse has been on wet food exclusively for ~ 7 days, which may be a contributing factor to her abrupt `almost back to normal' appearance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
    Reason for edit: Added info
    Diane Tyler's Mom likes this.
  17. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    In the US you need a script for Lantus and it's really really expensive

    Just wanted to let you know your two tags to Summer and Sue didn't work above
    You have to see them turn blue when you tag some one

    I'll show you
    @Summer and Susie

    @Sue and Luci

    I just wanted to show her how to tag :cat:

    I like to put one tag under the other and skip a line in between them
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  18. Sprkl

    Sprkl Member

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    Mar 28, 2021
  19. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
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