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Mandy and Bradley

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I'm new here. I joined because I don't know what else to do for my cat and I hope someone can help.

My cat is 13 years old. He's always been somewhat overweight but was always healthy. Last year, he was diagnosed with diabetes. I changed his diet and started on insulin. It took a while for it to stabilize, but eventually, he didn't even require insulin anymore. He was considered a transient diabetic. I was thrilled.

Then months later, maybe 5 or 6 months, I started noticing the usual symptoms again--drinking a lot of water, urinating a lot, etc. I took him to the vet and his sugar was in the 400s. So, we're back again. For the past 4 or 5 weeks, I have been going back and forth to the vet getting his sugar checked. He has yet to stabilize. One visit, it's 360, then we adjust the dose, then the next visit, it's below 100. Again, adjust the dose, then maybe next visit it's perfect. We leave the dose alone. Next visit, it's high again. You get the idea. This is a lot to go through for both my cat and I. For some reason, the vet always seems to go back and forth between 2 and 2.5 units. Well, this is not working and I am going to tell them that. When using insulin, can't you use quarters? Such as 2.25? I'm going to mention this to the vet, or even do 2 units one day and then 2.5 units the next and so on? I don't know. I'm out of ideas but I know neither 2 units or 2.5 works consistently.

Anyway, my siutaiton is is that my cat, since he's not stabilized, is peeing everywhere. I can't take it anymore. This past weekend, it crossed my mind to put him down but that made me terribly depressed. I feel if we can get him stabilized, the peeing will stop. He has been confined in a room with two big pans and only is allowed to come out in very small increments where he can be watched. I can't let my poor cat live like that. I've tried everything. He does use the pan, but since he pees so much, he even pees outside the pan in the confined room. I clean his pans about 10 times a day so they are always clean.

I love this cat and want to do everything for him. I'm just getting frustrating.

I'm thinking of trying Epigen (Wysong) for him as they say it's really good for diabetic cats.

Has anyone had this experience with not being able to be stabilized? Were you able to fix it?

I have an appointment today to get all of his vital organs checked. He seems to be drinking less and peeing less, so that's good, as his last visit his sugar was 360, but I guarantee if we keep going with the same dose, he will continue to drop, and probably too low because that's the pattern I keep seeing.
 
Hi and welcome. Yes we can definitely help you!

Let's start by getting more information.

What is your cat,s name.
What type of insuloin are you using.
How often do you give insulin and how much each time.
What kid of food are you feeding.
Are you aware that you can save lots of money and time by learning to home test.

I am on a bb so this will be abbreviated.

Ok now for some general info:

Diabetes is best managed by doing three things.

1 feeding low carb wet food. - get rid of all dry including treats. No matter the quality dry food its just not giod for the cat and full of carbs.

2 home testing is vital. It is the only way to put you in control and know how your cat is doing at any given time. Having the vet test is a waste of money and doesn't give you the pertinent info to really regulate your cat. Vet stress among other things can make the bgs too high and changing insulin doses based on vet visits you can easily miss the ideal dose for cat.

3 insulin. There are many types out there and some work better than others. Each insulin has its own protocol that we follow. But the overall theme with insulkin is start low and go slow. Meaning start at 1 or 1/2 unit and with home testing you will learn to know when to change dose. Typically a dose is held for 5-7 days and when changes are made its done in 1/2 or sometimes 1/4 unit increments depending.

If you go to the health links board there is lots of info to read that wull help put what I wrote to make sense.

And yes sometimes transient diabetics need to go basck on insulin. Sometimes due to illness, needing a dental or just because.

I will provide more info when I get to my pc.
 
First off, there is absolutely no need to think of putting your cat to sleep.

As Hilary said, just provide more info and people here WILL help you get your old cat back.

1. Names
- it's nicer to know your cat's name and even yours.

2. Type of insulin
- there are several different types of insulin, so in order to help you better and to give you info on the insulin you are using, we need to know what you are giving. Some are harsh and need food to be fed first, but others are usually given first and food right after. there are different types of syringes as well.

3. Food
- this one is really important because many cats are DIET CONTROLLED. The food best given to diabetic cats is low carb and wet foods. You do NOT need to buy any fancy foods from the vet office either; they are not the best foods and are way too expensive.
Dry food, any dry food, including most dry treats, are high carbs and are contributing to your cat's BG numbers. It's kinda like a diet of only fast foods.

Here's a link to a list of foods that would be good to feed your cat - pick ones under 10% carbs:
Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition

4. Home testing
- taking your cat to the vet to be tested every few weeks is nothing but a total waste of time and all your money. That one number or set of numbers from a curve mean nothing. I have one cat who tests much higher when at the vet because of stress and fear. |I have another whose BG goes very LOW when at the vet office. And when I get them home again, within 30min, their numbers return to normal, their usual "lazy cat at home" numbers.
Just get a regular BG meter from your local pharmacy, some test strips, and lancets. You also want to pick up some KETOSTIX at the pharmacy to test for ketones in your cat's urine.
Home testing lets you know if it is safe to give your cat a shot or not. You can also decide on the correct dose by testing your cat's BG at home.
There are lots of nice meters you can get - Relion is available in the US if you are there, and the strips are much cheaper than others. Don't worry about learning to home test, most people here will have tips and tricks and instructions and even videos. Just a quick poke on the edge of your cat's ear tip, then sip up the drop of blood on the strip in the meter, and you have the number. Easy peasy. And no more trips to the vet, stress on the cat, and less money in the vet's pocket.

Once you say what insulin you are using, what syringes are you using, what was the starting dose and what your vet's instructions were, info can be posted for you.


Now don't worry. Tell your cat that you will be getting him back to a happy healthy cat very soon now.
 
Hi and welcome.

You already got great information so far. I wanted to add to the vet stress mentioned, sometimes called white coat syndrome, at least I've called it that :)

The BG could be 100 points higher from that stress, most cats will be stressed by the car ride/vet visit. If you hometest you'll find it easier to regulate and possibly get off insulin again.

A cat that was in remission and then goes back on insulin, sometimes that's caused by another stress, maybe a urinary tract infection, maybe bad teeth or some other infection causing this. Did the vet check teeth and do routine bloodwork and urine?
 
Thanks guys.

My cat's name is Bradley. My name is Mandy.

He's on ProZInc, with U-40 syringe. He's currently on 2.5 units twice a day I give it to him at 6:00 am and 6:00 p.m. He was originally on 2 units and since he was diagnosed two months or so ago, he's been back and forth between 2 and 2.5.

I had my cats on the Wysong canned food a long time ago (Vitality) and they really didn't like it. I then had them all on the Wellness canned and dry mixed. Well, since the recall of Wellness, there are no cans on the shelf. I had to switch them to Blue Buffalo, canned and dry. Bradley is currently getting a mix of canned and dry of Blue Buffalo, but after the vet visit today, I am going to give him just the canned until at least the Wellness comes back. The vet has Purina DM but I read that is contained with a lot of artificial ingredients. Is there a good canned brand you guys recommend?

At the visit today, his sugar was 107, but I know with the 2.5 units, it is only going to continue to go down, as that was the pattern before. I asked the doctor about 2.25 and he said I could do that, anywhere between 2 and 2.5. I thought about buying a home kit and maybe that's really what I need to do. I'm tired of going to the vet and putting Bradley through that. I just feel like I am not qualified enough to gauge how many units he needs if he seems a little high versus a little low when testing myself. The vet told me he thinks the peeing on the floor is behavioral and has nothing to do with the diabetes, but I don't buy that. Part of it may be behavorial as Bradley has had behavioral issues in the past, but I think a lot has to do when his sugar is off balance.

I don't think they ever did an thorough dental exam, only looked briefly. They took a complete panel today, but I don't know if that includes a urinalysis. I don't think it does. Everytime I go to the vet, I have to bring my 3-year-old, so I totally get sidetracked and forgot to ask about the urinalysis.

By the way, when you say pick up a test at the pharmacy, am I picking up a test for humans? Does that work for felines, too? I'm totally lost in that department so if you guys could lead me the way on what tests to buy, etc., I would appreciate it.

I hope this info helps somewhat.
 
HI Brady,

107 is not a number you would give insulin with. We suggest not giving insulin under 200. I am especially concerned that if that is the number you got at the vet, it may be a higher number than you would get a home as many kitties are stressed at the vet. Has he already had insulin this am? If I were you, I would get my testing stuff now and get a number at home. I am very concerned that 2 units may take him too low today.

Here is a shopping list for testing:


A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 25-26 gauge is good. Any brand will work.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats
 
Sue and Oliver said:
HI Brady,

107 is not a number you would give insulin with. We suggest not giving insulin under 200. I am especially concerned that if that is the number you got at the vet, it may be a higher number than you would get a home as many kitties are stressed at the vet. Has he already had insulin this am? If I were you, I would get my testing stuff now and get a number at home. I am very concerned that 2 units may take him too low today.

Here is a shopping list for testing:


A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 25-26 gauge is good. Any brand will work.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats
Click to expand...


Thank you! I tried explaining to the vet that he is probably on his way down and that he is going to go too low with the current dose. He wasn't listening to me. I told him look at the pattern, doc! Anyway, I'll have to go to the store sometime soon. The thing that confuses me though is that if ProZinc only works for 12 hours, if he is at 107 now, isn't he going to be back up again around 6:00 tonight?

Bradley had his shot this morning at 6:00 a.m. So I guess my next step is to check his sugar later today and go from there.

Any recommendations on food?
 
Yes, but do not change the food today or until you get some numbers. Dry food will keep his blood glucose levels higher and we want that until we see how low he is going. The time when you might have a problem is 3-6 hours after the shot. Be looking for any unusual behaviors. Here is the hypo info: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

I hope you can get the supplies and get a test in asap.

Here is the food chart: Janet and Binky’s chart I would start with several brands/flavors - you want ones under 8-10% carbs that you can afford and your cat will eat. We feed fancy feast. Others feed Friskies, Merrick, Blue Buffalo. Wellness is having some issues right now so I think I would avoid it. BUT don't switch over to wet food until you are testing regularly.

With a 107 at the vet, I am wondering if you will need insulin at all or if a diet change may be enough.
 
Check this link..... many foods are listed ... several people feed friskies or fancy feast pates, NOT the marinated or grilled or gravy flavors. Have a few cans of the gravy ones because if Bradley goes too low, you may need to feed some high carb..... no dry food as they just cause the BG to rise. The vet food is no good either.
In my earlier post, I gave a couple links..... click on the Binky's food list for a wide choice of foods.... just stick to under 10% carbs in your choices.

As for the vet not listening to you, I am thinking your vet knows very little about feline diabetes, but the people here do. What helped me and others is to be recording our BG tests on a spreadsheet and then when you go to the vet, just take a copy of the sheet, and the results will show your vet that you are making progress. My vet never gives me any instructions on treating my two cats that is related to their diabetes, but my vet is important for all other issues like bloodwork, dentals, meds, etc.

I have not used ProZinc so others can help you on the dosing info, but to answer your question.... you are giving shots every 12 hours because your insulin lasts close to that long. You should see Bradley's BG numbers drop and then rise again by the next shot time.
I think Lantus and Levemir are a bit longer lasting but are the same .... shots every 12 hours.
Example of a typical curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 – Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 – Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.

With home testing, you can see if Bradley is going too low and you can decrease your dose so he is not harmed.
 
Sue and Oliver said:
Yes, but do not change the food today or until you get some numbers. Dry food will keep his blood glucose levels higher and we want that until we see how low he is going. The time when you might have a problem is 3-6 hours after the shot. Be looking for any unusual behaviors. Here is the hypo info: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

I hope you can get the supplies and get a test in asap.

Here is the food chart: Janet and Binky’s chart I would start with several brands/flavors - you want ones under 8-10% carbs that you can afford and your cat will eat. We feed fancy feast. Others feed Friskies, Merrick, Blue Buffalo. Wellness is having some issues right now so I think I would avoid it. BUT don't switch over to wet food until you are testing regularly.

With a 107 at the vet, I am wondering if you will need insulin at all or if a diet change may be enough.
Click to expand...

That food chart is extremely helpful, but I noticed only a few Blue Buffalo flavors are on there. Do you know where I can find the other flavors? I normally give them the Tuna Grill, Salmon, Turkey, or Chicken, but I really don't see the Chicken or Turkey on there, and the Salmon looks a little too high in carbs.

Also, I noticed you mentioned that since his sugar was 107 today, he may not need insulin. His sugar was 360 only a few days ago (Sat), after it was perfect 127 about a week or two before that. With those numbers, is it still possible diet alone may work? Is your line of thinking that when his sugar is high, he is eating too many carbs? Forigve me if I am asking silly questions. This is all so new and overwhelming to me at first. I feel like the vet is no help and I have to be a doctor myself. It seems so very scary.
 
It is scary at first. But the more data you get, the more confident you will feel about how much insulin you need or whether you need insulin or not. That is why the testing is so important.

Here is some info for PZI: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

But I do want to repeat. I would not be researching info now, I would be on my way to the store to get testing supplies and get home and test him.
 
SilverMoon010 said:
Any recommendations on food?
Click to expand...

Bandit is diet regulated on Fancy Feast right now. I feed all of the "classic" flavors, which are low carb. Here's a list of flavors that are great for diabetics: http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm He used to eat Wellness canned too but I'm not feeding it anymore because it's having some issues right now. If you're looking for a higher end food, Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, Surf-n-Turf, and Southern Delight are all low carb and highly palatable (my cats *loved* the stuff), and EVO canned is also very good (the Turkey & Chicken and all of the 95% foods are great, especially if your cat lost weight and needs to gain it back).

I agree with the others that along with a diet change you must hometest! I think that you aren't able to get him regulated on a good dose because you don't have enough data to tell when he's there. Also, once you switch to low carb wet food his need for insulin will most likely decrease. Most cats on a low carb diet only need around 1u.
 
Sue and Oliver said:
It is scary at first. But the more data you get, the more confident you will feel about how much insulin you need or whether you need insulin or not. That is why the testing is so important.

Here is some info for PZI: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

But I do want to repeat. I would not be researching info now, I would be on my way to the store to get testing supplies and get home and test him.
Click to expand...

Okay, I can't get out right now because my son is taking a nap but I can go out when he gets up. Should I give Bradley some dry food in the meantime?
 
SilverMoon010 said:
That food chart is extremely helpful, but I noticed only a few Blue Buffalo flavors are on there. Do you know where I can find the other flavors? I normally give them the Tuna Grill, Salmon, Turkey, or Chicken, but I really don't see the Chicken or Turkey on there, and the Salmon looks a little too high in carbs.
Click to expand...

I fed Blue Buffalo to my non-diabetic cat briefly when we were trying out lots of food because she had stomach cancer and was getting picky. I believe that most of the flavors weren't good for diabetics, because I often checked the labels to see if I could feed it to Bandit once she wouldn't eat it anymore.

Look at the ingredients on the can. If it lists any grains like rice, potatoes, corn starch, or gluten, it's most likely not going to be low enough in carbs.

SilverMoon010 said:
With those numbers, is it still possible diet alone may work? Is your line of thinking that when his sugar is high, he is eating too many carbs?
Click to expand...

Absolutely, diet alone may work. Or once he's on a low carb diet he may need a low dose of insulin for a little while until his pancreas heals. But it could also be that he's on too high a dose of insulin and that is driving him up. The only way to tell what's going on is to hometest and figure it out.
 
If I were you, I would put out some dry food. You can get him on a great diet once you know how much insulin to give. Is he acting fine? How many hours since the shot?
 
SilverMoon010 said:
Okay, I can't get out right now because my son is taking a nap but I can go out when he gets up. Should I give Bradley some dry food in the meantime?
Click to expand...

I would not change his diet until you start hometesting. Most likely his dose of insulin is too high and the dry food his keeping his BG high enough so that he doesn't have a hypo incident. Once you get the meter and start testing, then you can adjust his diet along with his insulin dose.
 
While you are waiting, make up the rice sack. It's a thinnish sock filled with raw rice, knotted and heated in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Practice putting it up next to his ear while talking to him and petting/praising. Fiddle with his ears at the same time. Have a treat ready to give him after you mess around a while so he gets used to the idea that you will be touching his ears and then he gets a treat.

That will give you something to do while you are waiting and set the stage for testing when you get the supplies.

He may be fine - your dry food may be balancing the insulin dose so his numbers stay safely high. I just get nervous when I see a number in the low hundreds and hear insulin was given. We will figure this out and you will begin to see how the numbers work and feel much more confident about the whole thing.
 
Sue and Oliver said:
If I were you, I would put out some dry food. You can get him on a great diet once you know how much insulin to give. Is he acting fine? How many hours since the shot?
Click to expand...

Yes, he's acting fine. I gave the insulin to him 6 1/2 hours ago.

About Fancy Feast, isn't there a lot of artificial ingredients in there, though? I haven't read the ingredients in years but I thought I remember reading that a lot of the commerical foods aren't good for cats.
 
Sue and Oliver said:
While you are waiting, make up the rice sack. It's a thinnish sock filled with raw rice, knotted and heated in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Practice putting it up next to his ear while talking to him and petting/praising. Fiddle with his ears at the same time. Have a treat ready to give him after you mess around a while so he gets used to the idea that you will be touching his ears and then he gets a treat.

That will give you something to do while you are waiting and set the stage for testing when you get the supplies.

He may be fine - your dry food may be balancing the insulin dose so his numbers stay safely high. I just get nervous when I see a number in the low hundreds and hear insulin was given. We will figure this out and you will begin to see how the numbers work and feel much more confident about the whole thing.
Click to expand...


Well, I gave him insulin this morning at 6:00 am and then his sugar was checked at the vet's office around 10:30. I don't think he's going to go lower. I think you may have misunderstood and thought I gave him the insulin after his numbers were at 107. Or, am I misunderstanding and it continues to decline around 3 to 6 hours later? I think I need an Insulin 101 course.
 
If you are 6 hours out, you can breathe easier. The nadir (lowest point in the cycle) is usually 6 hours so he should be headed back up. I would still keep a close eye on him. Read the PZI info. It will help you see the big picture. Now the important thing is to get used to the testing so you will feel confident about getting a number before you give insulin tonight. Because I would not give insulin until you have a number.

So the 107 was about 4 hours after the shot. That would be a great number at home. I wonder whether it was really a much lower number as many cats stressed at the vet and stress raises blood glucose levels.

Fancy Feast has by products. But our objective is to get the food to the closest to protein (meat) in the wild. Mice and birds have lots of "by products". Blue Buffalo and Merrick are considered higher quality. It is dependent on what he will eat and what you can afford. Any of the wet lo carb foods are so much better than the dry. Read the ingredients on your dry. The first few are usually wheat, corn and gluten. Any protein is dried. Have you seen this web site by a FD vet: www.catinfo.org
 
If you want some more homework while you are waiting for your son to wake up :mrgreen: you could set up a spreadsheet. It is a great color coded tool that allows you to see trends and patterns and lets us see your history at a glance when you need dosing help. The template is slow to come up so be patient. If you need help, just ask.


Setting up a spreadsheet
 
SilverMoon010 said:
About Fancy Feast, isn't there a lot of artificial ingredients in there, though? I haven't read the ingredients in years but I thought I remember reading that a lot of the commerical foods aren't good for cats.
Click to expand...

Commercial foods often have the same, if not better quality ingredients as veterinary diets. Fancy Feast Classics have a great nutritional content to feed your cat because they're grain free, and it's far better than feeding your cat the fillers and binders that are in dry food.

They do use by-products, though, so there are better quality commercial foods without by-products if you would rather feed those. The Merrick and EVO flavors I listed earlier are all high quality protein.

By-products aren't as bad for cats as you would think, because cats naturally eat organs and bones. Foods with chicken or salmon meal as the first or second ingredient are pretty junky. What you want to avoid in cat foods are things they wouldn't eat unless it was processed and loaded with junk additives to get them to eat it: potatoes, rice, corn, peas, carrots, etc.
 
Oh, and I should add that while dry foods are the biggest offenders because they have to have to use grains or starches to bind the food together, there are lots of wet foods that do the same thing. Many, many canned foods use rice as a filler (because rice is cheaper than meat). And price often does not indicate how good the food is. I've seen $3 cans of food at the specialty cat food store where I live that are filled with all sorts of junk a cat shouldn't eat. I actually wrote an angry letter to a local market recently when I saw that they were selling Vegan cat food for $4.00 a can. Couldn't believe it!!! Those poor cats.
 
Thanks guys! This is all so very helpful. I can't wait to feel more comfortable with this because I am having an anxiety attack as to how I am going to manage his diabetes on my own, care for my 3-year-old, and work part-time at home! A lot of work @-)

I hope it's normal to feel this way. Right now, he's doing good. The spreadsheet is taking a really long time so I'm just going to leave it for now. Does it normally take that long? It's been about 10 minutes and still nothing. I'll be back later because I will certainly need your help with dosing.
 
You can so do this! :-) I work 60-70 hours a week at two jobs *and* go to grad school and I managed it fine. So will you! It gets easier, trust me!
 
Before I head off to the store, I thought I'd ask about the urinating on the floor. Is that normal with cats when their sugar is high, even if there pans are clean? I know cats do that to tell their owners something is wrong. He seems to be okay with that once his sugar is in the more normal range. I just don't buy my vet's theory that it's totally behavioral, even though he does have a history of behavioral issues.

Also, how do you test the cat's urine for ketones? I can't see squeezing his abdomen like the vet does, but is that how you do it? Also, is the ReliOn brand okay for the ketone strips?
 
One more question....When is it okay to test the sugar? Anytime during the day, or does it have to be a certain amount of time after eating and/or giving insulin? I know it's four hours after insulin when I go to the vet. How do you guys do it?
 
ReliOn is the cheapest meter with the cheapest strips and people really like it.

Was he tested for a Urinary Tract Infection? Sometimes the diabetes can also cause inappropriate urination. If it improves as his numbers got better, I would guess that - if he was been checked out for a UTI.

You can stalk until he is already peeing, and then stick the strip into the urine stream. Oliver would not let us watch him so we resorted to buying aquarium gravel and putting him in a room with the litter box with the gravel and waiting till he went. Then we rushed in and checked. Other people use torn up paper or lentils. Whatever won't stick to the urine.

With PZI, the essential time is before every shot and then around 4-6 hours after. You are trying to figure out his nadir (or lowest point). Usually with PZI, that is around 4-6. After you get the testing down, you can do a curve. That is testing every 2-3 hours during a day between shots. That will give you a real clear picture of how the insulin is working and what you could do foodwise/feeding wise to improve it.

You test, feed, shoot. You want a test that is not influenced by food (food can raise bg levels) so you test first. Then you can feed him and shoot while his nose is deep into his breakfast or dinner. You want to avoid food 2 hours or so before the test.
 
Okay, so I got my stuff. Well, I got every but the ketone strips but my husband works at Walgreens, so he can pick them up later.

So, the next question is when should I test? I've had the food bowl out for him, so should I take it away and test at 5:00? (I'm eastern time.) I have no clue what I'm doing so I certainly need to read all of the instructions to all devices first, which may take some time.
 
When is your shot due? (12 hours after the am shot) It would be nice if he wouldn't have eaten for a couple hours before that time, but it he does, he does.

I would try it out first on myself - read the directions and then poke your finger and get a reading. That way you will know what to do with your kitty - how much time you have and how the strips work, etc.

Did you have time this am to work with his ears a little? Do you have any idea how he will behave if you poke him? You do need to heat his ears.

Don't worry about a time crunch. With PZI, the schedule is not as important as it is with other insulins. The important thing is to get a number.
 
Sue and Oliver said:
When is your shot due? (12 hours after the am shot) It would be nice if he wouldn't have eaten for a couple hours before that time, but it he does, he does.

I would try it out first on myself - read the directions and then poke your finger and get a reading. That way you will know what to do with your kitty - how much time you have and how the strips work, etc.

Did you have time this am to work with his ears a little? Do you have any idea how he will behave if you poke him? You do need to heat his ears.

Don't worry about a time crunch. With PZI, the schedule is not as important as it is with other insulins. The important thing is to get a number.
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He got his first shot at 6:00 a.m. so next shot is due 6:00 p.m. He's a very well-behaved cat. He'll let you do just about anything to him. So I guess I'll try to test maybe between 5:00 and 5:30 since this is my first time and I'm not sure what to expect.
 
Normally, it's suggested to give no food for the 2 hours before shot time, so if you are giving shots at 6am/6pm, take away foods for the times 4 - 6am and 4 - 6pm.
Food influences numbers, so you could feed and then the BG rises, which will give you a false higher number at shot time.

you can test whenever and as often as you like because all numbers are data. The more data you gather, the more you know how your cat is using/reacting to the insulin.

The 3 most important tests are before the am shot, before the pm shot, and before your going to bed test.
Before each shot, test no farther ahead than 15min, and do not feed until you have decided if you are giving a shot or not. Sometimes you may need to delay a shot and test again in 15min or so to see if your cat is rising or still dropping.
The before bed test is very important because many cats drop lower overnite.
 
And what time is it right now? ( I'm on Mountain time)

I would figure your job tonight is to get a number. Figure out the meter. Find the spot where you are going to test, get all your supplies (don't forget the treats). Then give it a try. Have you seen the videoo: Video for hometesting Double poke if you don't see blood right away. Milk the ear from the bottom up. If you try twice and it isn't working (the cat in the video has been doing this a long time.....), give the kitty a treat and come back on, start a new topic and ask specifically for testing help.

It is the rare person who is able to get blood the first time. If you do, hurrah! If not, give it a break, ask for help and then try again.
 
Well, you can test any time you'd like, especially while you're learning how to do it. :smile:

You need to test before each shot of insulin to make sure it's safe to give the shot. Also, If you can get a test in 4 hours after a shot and 6 hours after a shot, that gives you the information you need to adjust dosing.

It can seem hard to test at first, but once you get it, it's so easy.

My technique was to put Bandit in a basket, and wrap him up in a blanket. If your cat doesn't fight you, you won't need to do this. Then I warmed up his ear with a damp waschcloth that I heated up in the microwave (to warm, not hot) and placed in a plastic bag. I placed a tissue behind his ear where I wanted to poke, and poked with my lancet device. I liked my device but a lot of people here free hand poke with just the lancet.

Here's a picture to show you where to aim: http://felinediabetes.com/images/laur_danny_famoussweetspot.jpg

Here's a page with some tips and videos!http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm You can also search youtube for "home testing diabetic cat", you'll get a lot of videos, too. And if you have questions or just want encouragement, come back and post. :-)
 
I am leaving for a hour or so. I hope you will have a number when I check in next!

When you get a number, ask for PZI dosing help. In general, if you get a number in the high 200s - 300s, I would give one unit. If you get a number over 400 - 500, I would consider 1.5 units. If you get a number under 200, wait 20 minutes (without feeding - a few treats are fine) and test again. I would not give insulin until he is over 200, and then I would only give .5 units.

I tend to be conservative, but you got a nice low number at the vet. I would be conservative dosing until you get some numbers and start to figure out how he is doing with the insulin. It is easier to increase the dose the next time than try to deal with a kitty who got too much and is going low.
 
New Member, "silver moon" I feel your pain! My kitty "Lucy" was diagnosed on Friday. The vet kept her all day yesterday and today so he could test her at different intervals. The highest read was 570 but she seems to hover around 450. The lowest read has only been 290 so I'm very concerned. I have been reading these wonderful posts and watching videos on home testing. Tonight when I pick Lucy up, I am going to discuss this with the vet. I feel like the stress may be increasing her numbers (she's a scaredy cat anyway) so I want to get her home and test it myself. I feel confident i can do it...I have to for her sake.
 
Thanks everyone!

I just tested on myself. I think I got it down. Now to try on poor Brad. I think I'm just going to try it now so I get the hang of it and then again right before 6:00.

I'll keep you all posted and thanks so much for the help!

HondaRider,

Good luck to you with your kitty! It's so nice to know we're not alone. I posted my question first thing this morning and look how many helpful responses I got already! You came to the right place ;-)
 
Hello and welcome! You've gotten wonderful advice so far, and you are on the path to getting your baby back on track.

Couple things...

1. Food-- another great choice is Merrick BG (Before Grain). The chicken, beef and turkey are all good options. I would avoid the chicken/quail and seafood varieties as they are pretty high in phosporus. Be sure to get the 96% option and not the 100% meat one. They have changed their formula fairly recently... previously the food wasn't properly balanced because it was just meat. The new formula provides balanced nutrition and can be fed as a primary food source. If you have a petco in your area, they should have wellness on the shelf and they carry both merrick lines as well. I feed a mix of homemade raw food, BG and some fancy feast (Willie loves it like no tomorrow). After seeing how some have been affected by the Wellness recall, it has really strengthened my resolve to feed nutritionally balanced homemade food as much as Willie will allow it, and to rotate the canned food brands I use... if there is a recall for a deficiency, that particular food will not have been his primary diet for any length of time.

2. Peeing. We had real issues with this as well. What kind of flooring do you have, and does Bradley tend to urinate in the same spots? Part of the problem may be that he is smelling the urine in specific inappropriate spots and thus continuing to pee there. Cats are like that. Be sure you are using a product that will fully remove the urine odor. Also, consider getting some Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract to use with your current litter. When Willie was first diagnosed, it was a godsend in getting him to use the box again. Also, is he okay with the litter you are using? Willie is picky... he hated pine litter, but with his diabetes better regulated, I've been able to go back to a clay-based scoopable (Precious cat, also a Dr. Elsey product). Last thing... I would consider getting a feliway diffuser or two. I found that they do work and have had a very calming influence on Willie and I think they helped get him accustomed to using the box again as well.
 
Christie & Willie said:
Hello and welcome! You've gotten wonderful advice so far, and you are on the path to getting your baby back on track.

Couple things...

1. Food-- another great choice is Merrick BG (Before Grain). The chicken, beef and turkey are all good options. I would avoid the chicken/quail and seafood varieties as they are pretty high in phosporus. Be sure to get the 96% option and not the 100% meat one. They have changed their formula fairly recently... previously the food wasn't properly balanced because it was just meat. The new formula provides balanced nutrition and can be fed as a primary food source. If you have a petco in your area, they should have wellness on the shelf and they carry both merrick lines as well. I feed a mix of homemade raw food, BG and some fancy feast (Willie loves it like no tomorrow). After seeing how some have been affected by the Wellness recall, it has really strengthened my resolve to feed nutritionally balanced homemade food as much as Willie will allow it, and to rotate the canned food brands I use... if there is a recall for a deficiency, that particular food will not have been his primary diet for any length of time.

2. Peeing. We had real issues with this as well. What kind of flooring do you have, and does Bradley tend to urinate in the same spots? Part of the problem may be that he is smelling the urine in specific inappropriate spots and thus continuing to pee there. Cats are like that. Be sure you are using a product that will fully remove the urine odor. Also, consider getting some Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract to use with your current litter. When Willie was first diagnosed, it was a godsend in getting him to use the box again. Also, is he okay with the litter you are using? Willie is picky... he hated pine litter, but with his diabetes better regulated, I've been able to go back to a clay-based scoopable (Precious cat, also a Dr. Elsey product). Last thing... I would consider getting a feliway diffuser or two. I found that they do work and have had a very calming influence on Willie and I think they helped get him accustomed to using the box again as well.
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Thank you. Great ideas!!!!

Yes, we have Cat Attract, Nature's Miralce, brand new, very clean pans, etc - LOL! I tried everything with him. He seems to be okay now. I think regulating his sugar is really a big thing right now, but only time will tell. I think a Feliway diffuser would be great.
 
By the way, what does warming the ears do exactly? I don't ever recall seeing the nurses at my vet's office do that prior to using the lancet. Could they have been getting incorrect readings every time from not warming the ears?
 
Okay, well, I just did it and it was very, very easy! It took about 5 minutes. The only problem is is that his sugar was 307. It really climbed up. Now, keep in mind he did have some dry food when he got home from the vet and I'm not sure if he eat shortly before I tested him or not. I have to test him again around 6:00, since 6:00 is when he is due for insulin.

I'll post back my results on a new thread later when I get them. It's 4:30 here now. Anyway, in the meantime, any ideas right now as to his sugar being 307 right now?
 
Warming the ears increases the blood flow. When you find his 'sweet spot' and have perfected the depth of poke, you may not need to warm. Another hint - if you see a little drop, not quite big enough, you can milk the ear a bit to encourage a bit more blood. Be sure to give him a treat every time - blood or not.
 
Perhaps the additional dry food that you gave him when he was a bit low. Isn't it a great feeling ot know exactly what his bg is right now? When you test b4 his shot, you may see a little drop or it may still be going up b/c of the dry.
 
SilverMoon010 said:
By the way, what does warming the ears do exactly? I don't ever recall seeing the nurses at my vet's office do that prior to using the lancet. Could they have been getting incorrect readings every time from not warming the ears?
Click to expand...

All warming the ears does is get the blood flowing better so that you can get a drop. It doesn't affect the reading at all. When you get more experienced at poking the ears, you'll find that you won't need to warm them to get blood, but in the beginning it helps a lot!
 
Warming the ears just helps the blood get flowing, which makes it easier for cats not accustomed to being poked to produce enough blood to get a proper test result. A lack of heat would only affect numbers if the meter being used will still give a reading with too little blood (several will, including the Relion meters), but the reading will just be very, very low.

As for the 307, don't worry too much. First, always remember that the 307 isn't necessarily 307. The FDA allows a variance of up to 20% for diabetes meters. At high numbers that variance can be large. 307 means that Bradley's BG is in the range of 246 to 369. Crazy, right? What you know is, the number is higher than what you want. Unregulated cats can have large swings in BG throughout the cycle... most cats hit their low point somewhere around +6, and then go up from there. Throw in some kibble to spike that number and you're in business.

For an example of how kibble can affect BGs, go over to the Lantus ISG and find the post for Binks from yesterday. He was on his 12th day of being "off the juice" (off insulin) and got into some contraband kibble. He was in the mid 200s in no time after spending 11 days practically always below 100. (you should also read it because it the responses were quite funny! :-D ).
 
Just-As-Appy said:
Perhaps the additional dry food that you gave him when he was a bit low. Isn't it a great feeling ot know exactly what his bg is right now? When you test b4 his shot, you may see a little drop or it may still be going up b/c of the dry.
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Yes! It's an empowering-type feeling and I finally feel in control. It's just a matter of me getting the dosing down correctly, but you guys are awesome and I'll know you'll help! No more vet visits every week! This is wonderful.

Thank you all so much for your help!!!
 
So, I didn't realize you could buy the strips and meter at a pharmacy so readily. My mother just got a meter from a class she took but said she had to have a perscription from her doctor to get the strips???? Do I have to have something from the vet in order to purchase these items?? Thanks
:?:
Congrats SilverMoon! I'm actually anxious to give it a try now!
 
SilverMoon010 said:
Okay, well, I just did it and it was very, very easy! It took about 5 minutes. The only problem is is that his sugar was 307. It really climbed up. Now, keep in mind he did have some dry food when he got home from the vet and I'm not sure if he eat shortly before I tested him or not. I have to test him again around 6:00, since 6:00 is when he is due for insulin.

I'll post back my results on a new thread later when I get them. It's 4:30 here now. Anyway, in the meantime, any ideas right now as to his sugar being 307 right now?
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I would say it's probably the dry food. You don't want to take him off it yet, though, because his need for insulin is going to decrease once you do. You'll want to get some numbers and lower his dose first, because it's already probably too high. Once you get it down a bet, then you can start weaning him off the dry while closely monitoring his dose.
 
Honda rider said:
So, I didn't realize you could buy the strips and meter at a pharmacy so readily. My mother just got a meter from a class she took but said she had to have a perscription from her doctor to get the strips???? Do I have to have something from the vet in order to purchase these items?? Thanks
:?:
Congrats SilverMoon! I'm actually anxious to give it a try now!
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You don't need a prescription to buy strips or a glucose meter. Honda rider, why don't you start your own thread for questions? It's always helpful to have an introduction, so we know your and your cat's name, and background like if your cat is on insulin, what type, diet, etc.
 
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