New Member - Sokrates needs help with dosing

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Magda and Sokrates

Magda and Sokrates

Member Since 2020
Hi,

my name is Magda and I live in the suburbs of Prague, Czech Republic, in a house with large garden with my 3 cats.
The oldest cat, Sokrates, was diagnosed with diabetes on February 10 after approx. month of PD/PU. Our Vet did blood tests and told me to stop feeding him LC canned food and Purizon dry food and start with Hill´s M/D dry and canned food together with Caninsulin injections twice a day. She later adjusted the dose based on occasional tests at the clinic.
After one week I got a human glucometer from a friend and tried to do curve at home. It was an awful day, because Sokrates got more and more angry with the tests and ended up biting me and hiding in the shrubs of our garden. So no more tests at home...
After two weeks, Sokrates wasn´t doing much better, so I took him to another Vet, who did some more tests and suggested switching to Lantus, starting at 1,5 unit twice a day. The Vet then increased the dose based on tests at the clinic and occasional tests I managed to do at home to 2 units twice.
After a week, Sokrates´s numbers were still high and the Vet suggested increase to 3 units twice a day. That seemed to much of a leap to me, so I started shooting 2.5 units and started to look for information about diabetes on web. I found this great forum and studied all info provided here.
Based on that info I started feeding LC canned food only and learned the warm rice sock trick to ease hometesting (though Sokrates still hates it and is able to withstand the maximum of three tests until he starts hissing and biting me).
I did not intend to become an active member here and post, I tried to figure Sokrates´s numbers on my own, but I´m really scared after today´s low readings and I´m afraid of killing my beloved furbaby by my incapacity. I shouldn´t have shot today´s AM dose or at least I should have lowered it, but I thought he would go up with breakfast...
Do you have any suggestions for me regarding today´s PM shot?
Thanks Magda
 
First of all congratulations on testing and handling the low numbers you did just right!!

He will probably be higher than normal at the PM test because of the high calories he ate and a possible bouncing for the low numbers he got that is normal and may last a few cicles.

You are probably starting to see the effects of the low carb foods that if I understood correctly you've been giving him for 7 days now, the TR protocol recommends that you lower the dose in 0.25 but given the fact that you changed food I think you need to lower it a bit more and give 2 units, but you will need to keep monitoring him closely because once he clears the high carb food and the bounce he could go low again.

I know you do not want to be very active and that's ok but please do post again at least in the next few days so that we can see how Socrates is doing and if he gets another low preshot test please post here and ask for help
 
Dear Veronica, thanks again. I just fed Sokrates his normal LC dinner and shot 2 Units. I will test him in +2.
It´s not that I don´t like the idea of discussing my cats condition here, but I thought that since I´m not a native English speaker and live on the other side of the world, I should be bothering you with my problems. I would have asked for help on Czech forum but there isn´t any (people here do not really try to handle sick cats, they just put them to sleep mostly) or the German forum (which I read using Google translate) but I sdo not speak German.
So thanks again to everyone of FDMB for letting people and cats benefit from your wisdom.
 
Don't worry about it and don't worry either if what you write is not perfect english there are quite a few people here that are not native English speakers, (including me), luckily for us there's the edit option because a lot of times I have to correct my posts when I read them afterwards and you certainly are not bothering

The problem you are having with vets and caring for cats with special needs is more common world wide than you think so please ask anything you need or want
 
I see from looking at your spreadsheet that you know how to stall. You know to skip the insulin shot if the blood glucose readings are too low and you don't have enough test data to know if a particular dose will take your cat too low with the BG (blood glucose) readings/tests/levels/numbers. You have learned from reading many posts here, that you want to always test before you give your cat a dose of insulin.

You have learned a lot on your own, but please feel free to ask any questions you may have.
Magda and Sokrates said:
but I thought that since I´m not a native English speaker and live on the other side of the world, I should be bothering you with my problems.
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We help any one with a diabetic cat. Even if English is not their native language. We help people in Argentina, Australia, Austria, Spain, Italy, Greece, Canada, United States, United Kingdom, Mexico, France and many other places in the world.

(The one from Greece was difficult, since she did not understand any English and wrote in the Greek alphabet. For that member, I had to use google translate to help and she has a friend that understands English, posted the question in English and could help her friend a bit more.)

All are welcome here.

If we say something, and you do not understand what we said, please let us know. We will be happy to try and explain what we said using other words or in a different way.

Magda and Sokrates said:
and live on the other side of the world,
Click to expand...
The hardest part of helping someone halfway around the world, is we may not be signed on when you are having an issue, like with a hypoglycemic episode and low numbers.
 
Thank you Veronica and Deb for welcoming me.
I know I don´t have much data for Sokrates´ spreadsheet, testing him is very difficult and until last week, I couldn´t be at home to test because I usually work and stay overnight in another town for 3-5 days every week or every second week, my mother takes care of our cats when I´m not home. With the Covid restrictions here in CzechRep, I´m grounded.
Prague is UTC +1 time zone.
 
That sounds like a brutal, a very difficult job that you have, with all the traveling and being away from home. So glad that your mom is able to take care of Sokrates and the other cats when you are away.

Hopefully you will be able to work from home. Not the circumstances in which you would want that to happen, but so many countries have imposed restrictions to stop the spread of this virus, so we understand.

Would some testing tips help you, do you think? Do you think your mother might be willing to learn to test Sokrates?

p.s. 4 PM my time is 9 PM your time. I'm GMT -5 (daylight savings time is in effect, called "summer time" elsewhere) Your late evening is my late afternoon.
 
9PM in Prague. Our "summer time" will start on Easter Sunday.
That job is teaching Latin, so brutal especially for students, but for me too, sometimes :). I actually got the job because my partner lives there and I wanted to spend time with him. And its good money too.
My mom has shaky hands, so insulin injections are already difficult for her, I cannot imagine her poking Sokr´s ear when he´s fighting and biting all around. Well, every cloud has a silver lining and this infection gave me an opportunity to be at home and to learn more about my sick baby.
Did the +2 test, it´s 28,6 = 515. That is a big bounce. What strikes me most, is that it took him 10 hours to start reacting to HC food! How is that possible? Is it because of his age? We don´t know it exactly, Sokrates was a stray cat when he adopted me.
 
Magda and Sokrates said:
Did the +2 test, it´s 28,6 = 515. That is a big bounce. What strikes me most, is that it took him 10 hours to start reacting to HC food! How is that possible?
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It's not the high carb food that he is reacting to. It's the perceived (but still safe) low blood glucose (BG) numbers or levels that Sokrates had today. Those lows in the 50's are a big drop for any cat.

Magda and Sokrates said:
Is it because of his age?
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Age has nothing to do with the blood glucose levels.

p.s. What is your native language if you are willing to share that with us?
 
My native language is Czech (West Slavic language close to Polish). I studied English and French at school, Latin and Ancient Greek at University.
So 515 is a bounce. Do I have to monitor during the night or can I go to sleep? Or set alarm and test at +5 or so?
 
With that high bounce to black at +2, it's unlikely that Sokrates would drop down so low that it would be dangerous. If you think you can set an alarm for +5 and test then, it would give you more information on how he reacts to this dose. Sleep deprived? Then I think you can safely go to bed as long as you can leave some food out for Sokrates to eat.

Many cats will instinctively seek out food when they blood glucose drops to a low level.

With lantus, there is the insulin "depot" or storage area to take into consideration. But you decreased the dose, so there is less risk of low numbers. Cats will be cats though. The unexpected could happen.

I know of a French language feline diabetes facebook group. Lots of idioms used there, so don't know if you are fluent enough in French to want the link to that group.
 
Magda and Sokrates said:
So 515 is a bounce. Do I have to monitor during the night or can I go to sleep? Or set alarm and test at +5 or so?
Click to expand...
Is defeatedly a bounce so I think you can go to sleep and get a good night sleep ( and get prepared for tomorrow when he may clear the bounce), and maybe a bit from the food since the high carb food raised his numbers almost after you gave it but it takes a few hours for his body to process the extra carbs he got
 
As for the French group, I´d prefer staying here, if I may, for my written English is far better than French and I already learned all the special terms you use.
So I feed him, leave some more food for the night (hopefully the other cats won´t steal that food) and go to sleep. I really need it, I can´t get sick.
Tomorrow I´ll post in the Lantus group, ok?
Godd night and thanks again for letting me in.
 
Sounds good. Get some sleep.

There is a specific format for the thread title for posts over in the Lantus forum.
Date (mm/dd), cat's name, then list the pre-shot test as either AMPS or PMPS, depending on the time of day. Then ask any question in your thread title. Use the ? (question mark) prefix on your post if you have a question.

As the day goes on, update the thread title with additional blood test numbers you get for the day, prefaced with the + hour you did the test.

New post each day, linking your previous days post at the top of the new thread for the day.

It helps to do things that way, because there are so many people that post there, and the thread title can be scanned for prioritizing.
 
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