New Member Roxana and Henry. Introduction and Questions

Hi,

First of all, a huge thank you for the members here who tirelessly help newbies like me save their babies. You are all ANGELS sent from Heaven.

My name is Roxana and my baby’s name is Henry. He is 13 year old male tabby, fluffy (17 pounds – always loved food and always super picky), has the most beautiful big green eyes and the biggest ears (it’s like they are asking to be poked I have him since he was a 5 month year old baby, he came in front of my apartment and never left (he figured he found his forever slave ). He is fully indoors for safety reasons. He is extremely vocal, super picky and a bit of a dry food addict. If he likes a can of something today, tomorrow is Meh…Is crazy about cooked shrimp (vet said no due to calories) and likes raw chicken but not every day.

I fed him high end wet food all grain free and yet, when he was 4 yrs old he had PU surgery due to crystals in urine. 3 years later he needed a cystostomy due to more crystals. He never liked the SO urinary wet food so he was mostly on the dry food since his surgery in 2017 (no crystals since then). He never liked water until his diabetes despite a gazillion fountains and all kind of tricks.

Last December he started drinking a lot of water and I figured something is not right so took him to the vet and was diagnosed with diabetes in January 2022 (356 BG, fructosamine 750). Doctor started on one unit of Lantus immediately and purina DM and each week his BG got higher and higher until we got to 5 units (huge mistake). I have made many mistakes mostly because I did not know any of the rules until I started reading this forum. I hope others can learn from them.

Mistake #1 : The doctor said to feed 12 hrs apart, no snacks and food has to be exactly the same. Well Henry is ridiculously picky and no way in hell I can feed same canned food each day. Initially I tried the LC prescription canned food and he did not touch it except for the Purina DM Morsels which is not LC (has soy – really cats eat soy??). After a week he got sick from it and was very scared. Switched him Purina DM Dry Food – at ridiculous 15% carb content. He got his energy back 4 days later and was no longer depressed. That is why the lantus was not working at lower doses because of the stupid dry food full of carbs.

Mistake #2: Instead of increasing the Lantus in small doses the dr said to go in 1 units and very soon he was at 4 units and I got desperate because his BG was still very high. Because I got desperate I got the acromegaly test – which was negative and an abdominal ultrasound (thanks to the growling I was hearing when he was on the Purina DM morsels) – all clear- no signs of pancreatitis or other issues. No DKA ever thank God. I have blood work results (generally good outside of the BG, some dehydration, high cholesterol) but plan on getting another test this Saturday to see how he progressed so I will upload after.

Mistake #3 : Increased insulin at the same time of food change to canned which is a big NO NO. When he was at 4 units, vet said go to 5 units and I also transitioned to Fancy Feast fully at the same time as I was desperate ( I thought lantus was not working). Poor kitty was hypersalivating which was weird but thought maybe it was the food because he used to do that with urinary SO sometimes. Well it is because he was going way too low and then bouncing back. Honestly it is a miracle I did not kill him. Two weeks of this madness and no I did not do testing then. Mad at myself.

Mistake #4: We got the Libre sensor and quickly noted his first Hypo, I panicked when I saw the numbers going down so super-fast and I stuffed him with the PURINA DM Dry but that did not work fast enough and went into hypo. I think it took about 1.5-2 hours for that food to kick in. Should have done karo syrup plus some MC or HC wet food probably. I took him to the vet immediately for monitoring and they refused to do a blood prick saying the Libre is very accurate. RRR. Henry had no symptoms he was sleeping and was annoyed I woke him up. The BG bounced back very quickly back to over 300. The next week the dose was decreased, then increased way quickly, and he had another hypo. It was very hard to figure out the dose after the two hypos ( he was bouncing and it was crazy) and was strange that with 2.5 units in the AM and 2.5 units in the PM he was going into hypo but if I did 2 and 2 he was going over 400. It was a strange time so vet said do 2.5 in the AM and 2 in the PM. I was so terrified of the hypos and lack of support/direction from vet (very hard to reach or get a response back). S0 I kept him at that dose for a while. However, Henry refused to eat the Fancy Feast (from all types he only liked the beef) even with stuff sprinkled on it. I put him then on Feline Natural Freeze Dried Lamb in the AM and Hounds and Gatos in the PM (he got bored of the Hounds and Gatos after one day). When we got a new Libre 14 days sensor, it was clear he was very high, despite feeding what is supposed to be LC food. The vet said be consistent so feed the freeze dried both in the am and the pm. I did and his BG went over 500.

Mistake #5: I fed him one snack at +4 in the morning but not in the evening. Sounds like more snacks in the am and pm are better. Thank goodness because my boy starts screaming for food around 4-5 pm and it is hell until 6.30-7 pm.

I know that is a lot but long story short, now I am feeding him LC carb (but varied between brands and types otherwise is a no go – mostly Feline Wellness Pate, Halo, Fancy Feast but less bec he hates it, Weurva) with a bit of Young Again dry food (so I can distract him why give him the Lantus) and a bit of freeze-dried food (stella and chewy or feline natural). He was 20 pounds but lost 3 pounds after he ate the Purina DM morsels. He has been stable at 17 pounds. I suspect the freeze dried food, the raw chicken and even the young again may increase his BG higher than normal. I think I read an article here about the foods that are too low carb may increase the BG more than the FF type food. I will try to limit as much as I can but little man needs his treats ( I ordered Dr Elsey and Epigen and will see if that is better for him despite higher carbs and calories). I started poking his ears but it has been very hard, he is very feisty at 6.30 AM when all he wants is food not the annoying prick. It has gotten a bit better, got some readings during the day but mostly failed I will continue to try to get better but meanwhile will do the Libre sensor again. I sometimes scan the sensor in the middle of the night ( 3 am, 5 am) and the morning I have no recollection I did it. My unconscious mind has been trained well lol

I started the spreadsheet and I have the most recent Libre numbers and now going back to add more rows at the begging of it but it is a lot of data and it takes time (I hope you can see it and take a look at the last 2 weeks) . He is having a new Libre put on Saturday and I am planning to start him at a new does on Sunday – 2.75 (up with 0.25 from 2.5) – does that sound right?

I have some questions:

1. I did a furshot today 5/12 in the AM. Can I still increase from 2.5 to 2.75 on Sunday? He has been pretty high, and I think that still should be ok.

2. What is the best way to make sure I approximate the 0.25 unit? I have half unit syringes (Ulticare) but my concern is I will not be consistent if I just eyeball the half of the half unit.

3. What is the best recommendation for how many snacks, how much and when? No food 2 hrs before insulin shot, I got that part but not sure about the rest : This is his current schedule:

1. 6.30 AM my alarm goes off, Henry knows that means food he starts meowing loudly, I try to test, I fail (for now), then I feed, then at 7.10 (AMPS) I give the injection plus a bit of young again dry food to distract him from the injection. I am not a morning person so I am mostly asleep lol

2. Test at AM +2 (9 am) – one piece of stella and chewy freeze dried – is that too much?

3. Test at AM +4 followed by a treat plus Snack at 11 -11.30 AM, 4 hours after shot ( 1 tbsp of freeze dried – may have to switch to wet if possible as I suspect this increases his BG way much).

4. Test at 6.30 PM (pmps), feed (different can of LC) and then insulin at 7.10 pm plus young again

5. Test at pm +4 followed by a treat plus Snack at 11 -11.30 pm, 4 hours after shot ( 1 tbsp of freeze dried – may have to switch to wet if possible as I suspect this increases his BG way much).

4. How long do we stay at 2.75? 6 cycles min? Or a full week since I got a furshot today and needs the insulin depot to build.

5. I have noted the Libre last week was consistently over 400 with AT showing numbers of 300 or less. I also bought Free Style Lite glucometer but errored out on me. I will try again. I plan to scan often the FL sensor ( I work from home, but have many Teams calls during the day and can’t always do the ear prick). I plan to take ear pricks as much as I can. I know everyone uses a human meter here but so far I had more success with the AT than the FS Lite to be honest. All of them are made by Abbott and should be calibrated but no they are not (that can be another thread in itself lol). Henry has pet insurance and the sensor costs frankly nothing. What do you guys think I should be using along with the sensor? The AT or the FS Lite which is for humans. For example, if the sensor says it is going low, do I doublecheck with AT or FSL to make sure? I read mixed results about Relion and want something that is supposedly more reliable and takes less blood because I have a hard time with that.

6. How do people test for urine ( read some articles with the spoon trick but too hard for me, I tried some special litter from Chewy but was a tiny amount and Henry said no thanks. When I hear him going to the restroom, I quickly run and try to dip a test strip before the urine is absorbed by the clumping litter. Not the best because I can’t always be there when he does it. No ketones so far, tested a few times recently.

I am sure I will have a ton more questions. The best thing I did was going to another vet who is feline specialist and sent me to this forum (she is also busy and it’s hard to get a call back). I read tons and tons of articles and hoping to get better and better at testing and handling lower numbers but until then I will be a pest and bug you guys because I love my baby to pieces and I have lost a lot of time and made many mistakes so far. I was completely blind and lost until I found you. Please be our guiding light Henry is now in great spirits, runs around and plays like a kitten. Outside of his high numbers and increased thirst (much better now) you would never know he has diabetes.

Thank you for reading this crazy long thread.

Roxana and Henry

 

Hello and welcome. You've made it here, you have your spreadsheet up and running, he's on a good insulin for cats, you are working on him eating low carb food and home testing. Well done so far! Everyone makes mistakes to start, there's a lot to learn at first.

A couple question/comments first. If you do a fur shot (we all do), could you put FS after the unit in the preshot column, so something like 2.5FS will let us know at a quick glance. Lantus is a depot style insulin and missing part of a shot has implications for dosing.

Those of us who have or are using Lantus here usually pick a dosing method and based on that, we can help you better with decision about when to increase/decrease a dose. Information is in this note on the top of the Lantus/Levemir/Biosimilars forum. Which one you chose is based on your lifestyle, what he is eating, and your goals for him. Any dry food in the picture means using SLGS or Start Low Go Slow. Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)

1) Let's see the data before Sunday, but if you don't see anything below 150 before then, you are good to increase to 2.75 on Sunday. I hope there is something is this post that will help you with those cold ears in the morning and getting a test before his shot. Hometesting Links and Tips

2) A lot of us just eyeball the 1/4 unit doses. If that's not working for you, some of us switched to using digital calipers to measuring the dose: Dosing with calipers

3) Feeding is somewhat dependent on the cat and how they respond to food and insulin. Several small meals before nadir (the lowest point of the cycle) are fine. Some people have grazers. Feeding at +2 and +4 are fine. I did half the food at shot time, then split the rest into a couple meals. Some cats drop quickly when the insulin onsets (starts to work). Giving those cats a small meal 20-30 minutes before that happens can slow the drop. Fast drops as well as dropping into lower numbers than they are used to can cause bounces, so slowing fast drops can help those cats. Over time you will learn Henry's response to food and might end up adjusting feeding to help smooth out his curve and keep him safe. If you are away around nadir time, leaving a small meal for him then might be a good idea.

4) Since dry food is in the picture, SLGS says to stay at a dose for 7 days. The only exception would be if ketones are showing.

6) Out of order but related to the above: Tips to catch and test a urine sample Some people have a hard time doing this for one reason or another (multiple cats, shy habits) so get a blood ketone meter.

5) Our dosing methods use human meters, it'll be easier for people to help you if your results are in human meter values, which the Libre is. Plus you'll save money over the AT test strips. Zoetis now makes the AT, not Abbott.

Keep on asking questions. And pop on over to the Lantus forum and read the Sticky Notes at the top of the forum.

 

Thank you so much for the quick response, I updated the FS info, added SLGS method on the spreadsheet and will update signature shortly. will buy a ketone glucometer to be safe; printed and going through the articles on this forum which are amazing; have the kit ready for low numbers just in case. Also studying other folks' spreadsheets to become better at documenting. Will go with SLGS for now and as I get more courage maybe we will be able to eventually transition to TR.
1. Does SGLS means less chances of remission?
2. So generally don't feed after +4 unless he is getting too low?
3. How much is a small meal at +2 or +4 - for example if you feed raw freeze dried like stella and chewy? how many pieces?
4. At +2 and + 4 if you want to give wet snack, how much is a little - 1 or 2 TSP or 1 TBSP? How about alternating with boiled or grilled chicken? He loves variety lol and is very vocal about it
5. Henry being super picky- is it ok to give different wet canned foods as long as they are LC? I know you are supposed to be consistent but .... I currently alternate between Fancy Feast, Feline Wellness, Weruva and Halo. Still better then the Purina DM dry

 

The key to remission is getting them regulated sooner rather than later. TR does allow faster increases and keeping them at a dose showing lower numbers with reductions at a lower number. Not to say it's impossible, just a bit harder with SLGS. But safety is key.

Once his numbers start getting lower, you'll get a better idea of when he tends to nadir. Ideally no food after that unless it's snacks for test treats. Of course if he's low and you need to bring his numbers up, that's a different story.

The +2 and +4 meal sizes will mean experimenting with what works for your cat. You could start with a meal of 1/4 of his AM allotment and see how that works. Food experiments can take a couple weeks, so be patient and stick to the same regime for a while. Either raw or wet food are fine. Boiled or grilled chicken don't have much in the way of carbs, but make excellent treats to reward test pokes.

Some cats just need variety in their food, get easily bored. Cat's gotta eat! Anything under 10% carbs is LC and will do. I tended to rotate 4 different proteins for some variety.

 

Thank you so much, that helps a lot. And it is a huge relief. Henry will also appreciate his snacks/treats. It was torture for both of us to just feed AM and PM, not to mention not rotating foods. Is Young Again not good for TR? I eliminated Purina DM dry completely and just do 1 tbsp of young again so it's easier to give his insulin shot and give him something to look forward to he loves it of course. Same question for Dr Elsey chicken and the Epigen.

 

Dry food is metabolized at a different rate than wet or raw food. The studies upon with TR was developed used only low carb wet or raw. Low carb dry may not have been around then. So we don't go outside the guidelines of what TR says about feeding.

 

You are doing a fantastic job!

TR has an admirable record for getting newly diagnosed cats into remission. That said, the dosing method that was used here prior to the Tight Regulation Protocol being published was very close to what we now call SLGS. Both then and now, cats on both dosing methods go into remission. The biggest difference is that TR was actually studied whereas SLGS is anecdotal data.

One thought about when to feed your cat is based on the nadir (lowest point in the cycle). Looking at Henry's spreadsheet, it's hard to know exactly where his nadir is. The numbers in his cycles are largely high and flat. Once it's clearer where the nadir falls, you want to try to avoid feeding after the nadir. Past that point, the effects of insulin are beginning to wane. That said, if Henry is hungry, using a protein only "snack" may be fine. You mentioned he likes shrimp and chicken. I don't think there's a problem with giving him a piece of raw chicken or defrosting some cooked shrimp for him.

 

Thank you both so much. Henry will be extremely happy to have his shrimp snack back.
1. What other snack or treats are ok for TR? I saw something about Pure Bites raw freeze dried but for some reason he got terrible diarrhea back in the day from it (he never gets diarrhea even when switching foods or eating raw chicken so i knew it had to be those treats). He is fine with Stella and Chewy Freeze Dried but need some variety. I saw another post recommending bonita flakes and Trader Joe's tuna (they are discontinuing their pet food and could not find any). How about those chicken in broth toppers? Any other ideas? I need to top his wet food with something (I now use stella and chewey raw freeze dried but need to diversify - he got bored of FF and now he is showing signs of getting bored with Wellness Pate as well - will try some others flavors and brands but boy he is picky). I ordered fortiflora but doubt he will be interested because i tried in the past. I need to trick this tricky cat so he cat eat his wet food and let go completely of the dry food. But still keep him as happy as he can be.
2. Is the idea that if you feed for example something at AM +4, you have to be consistent and feed same thing at PM +4? Like only canned food or can you switch - AM - raw and PM - canned.
3. Based on prior data when the dose was increased to 5 and switched to FF canned food food his nadir seemed to be between +4 and +6 with very quick drops (that does way way high). But I agree, I need more data now he is pretty high and flat. To be safe, no food after the +4 except the BG test treat.
4. I wrote chicken in the spreadsheet and defaulted to black. I tried to fill it in with white but does not let me. i did not take BG, just wanted to note when i gave him a snack.

Thank you for the wonderful ideas and all that you do!

Roxana &Henry

 

Hi Roxana and Henry, welcome to the club. Yes, this place is like a life-preserver thrown to a drowning person! The people here and their combined knowledge and experience helped me and my boy Hendrick so much. I am pretty new here but I can answer #2 -- no, you do not have to feed the exact same thing AM and PM at all. We mix it up constantly. Might be FF in the AM and Weruva in the PM, with Tiki at +2/4/6 or maybe some Stella and Chewys morsels.

Let me find the list of low-carb high protein treats

[edit] here you go:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/list-of-low-carb-healthy-treats.9172/


By the way, on a side note -- I am very impressed by your attention to detail and how well-informed you are already about FD. About 99% of the people just starting out here do not have a spreadsheet, do not know what +2 or +4 means, have never done an ear prick BG test, I could go on and on. I was certainly one of them! You are starting off like where I was after a month of having things beaten into my brain by the experts here...repeatedly. lol.

Henry is lucky to own you.

[edit 2] For ketone testing we use the Nova Max Meter, strips are expensive $20 for 10 strips but I found the expense very worthwhile as I did not want to try to catch Hen's urine for ketostix testing, and you can typicaly use the same blood drop for a BG test, either with the same meter if you swap in a BG strip, or with a different meter.

 

I've seen some people use an "*" in a cell to indicate food. If all you are giving is next to zero carb food, it probably won't impact his BG unless he's extremely carb sensitive, so not sure if you need to put notes in the cells for zero carb food. We did have one members who's cat got a bump from freeze dried chicken, so I never say never!

As for treats, anything pure meat works. Or at least don't contain carby food or starches. Orijen also makes a selection many cats like. And look in the dog section of the store, you can often get larger packages of the same thing for less.

 

There are all sorts of flavors of freeze dried treats. Often, there's a better selection in the dog treat aisle.

ZiwiPeak makes an air dried raw food that is a good alternative to the Stella & Chewy's.

It's not necessary to feed exactly the same food at the same point in the cycle in the AM and PM. If Henry is easily bored, it may make more sense to switch things up more frequently.

 

Wow, thank you thank you and thank you! Great ideas. I will go ahead and order some of these treats so we can have some variety.

@Wendy&Neko - I started tracking his snacks and food types because i have a suspicion that he may be very sensitive to any food. i remember trying raw chicken because i knew there are no carbs and his insulin spiked; same with some raw freeze dried food but it could have been for other reasons; i noted sometimes when i increase the dose the BG increases which i saw something about it on this forum. so maybe it was that. I need to pay attention more and try to understand his reactions to different foods/treats. On the other hand it may be because my raw chicken was not a snack more like a full meal. You should see Henry in the kitchen smelling the chicken while i prepare it - it is like he has never eaten anything in his life and meows like there is no tomorrow. So I may have a tendency to be too generous with his portions. I need to watch his weight and calories intake as well, he is "only" 17 pounds. But cannot think about weight loss while trying to figure the dosage yet.

@Hendrick Cuddleclaw - Kyle, thank you for the kind words and the list of treats . You are a true inspiration for all of us newbies here; For the past two weeks I read this forum and posts like the Bible and all the videos (including yours) helped so much (I was paralyzed with fear at the idea of poking ears; but constantly reading and watching videos helped a ton. I had to use desensitization techniques on myself prior to using them on my cat lol in order to get used to the idea. What really helped beating the terrifying fear is gaining a bit of control day by day just reading all this, getting knowledge (knowledge is power) and getting hope seeing how dedicated everyone is here to help their babies ( I am in awe really) . I figured if you guys can do it, I have to try and do my best. I am still terrible at taking BG hence the Free Libre sensor. But making progress and continuing the techniques described here. I will go ahead and order the ketone meter asap. Quick question : I ordered a headlamp from Amazon but has very bright white light not soft light. I tried to find a softer light one but could not figure it out. After i use the one i have, i see yellow spots lol Henry is not a fan either.

@Sienne and Gabby (GA) Thank you so much, I will try those treats as well.

I have some questions ( go figure
1) Today Henry had the Free Libre Sensor 14 days placed. I asked for blood work including ketones testing just to be sure. His BG at +2.5 was 429 which is pretty constant and flat for him. The dr said to not increase his dose even by 0.25 until we get the blood work results back Monday and after she talks to my other vet who prescribed the lantus (she does not work with Lantus just prozinc). I don't understand what is the point of waiting because He has been constant at over 400 for weeks now, his spirits are great, he eats great. too great lol. I don't want to waste time waiting especially because i want to make the most of his Libre sensor. His last blood work was in February and it was ok except for cholesterol and BG, bit dehydrated which is the case sometimes with diabetes. I was the one asking for blood work because I want to compare to the February results and see if his test for pancreatitis (forgot the name) is better or worse. He was within the limits but at the higher end. She was not the one recommending so not sure waiting makes any sense. She sent the vet tech to talk to me so I could not really understand her reasons. Thoughts?
2) Henry scratched the area where his prior Libre was and i wanted something to heal it faster - vet gave me Burrow's Solution and hydrocortisone (10 mg hydrocortisone and Burrow's solution 20 mg) - it says on the bottle for dogs - to dab on cotton ball and apply to the area. Vet tech said it has steroid plus antibiotic. I thought steroids are not good for diabetics she said a bit should be ok. But I know my boy and he will end up licking it. So should I give it to him?
3) I saw a thread here about not applying neosporin because the ingredient called polymyxin is toxic for cats. I am guilty of applying after each poke. So I asked the vet for the Emla cream prescription (saw it recommended here) and she gave it to me but said put it 30 min before poking. Wait so if i poke 6 times a day i have to do that 6 times before each poke? What do you guys recommend?

Thank you so much and hope everyone is enjoying their weekend.

 

I'll be honest. I never used Neosporin. If you're worried about the possibility of an infection, use an alcohol swab on the lancet and after your poke Henry's ear. Neosporin ointment was sometimes used to help the blood bead up after you poked. You can use Vaseline instead.

Looking at Henry's numbers, I would raise the dose. Even if the bloodwork shows there's an infection, you still need to get the numbers down. An antibiotic would help if that's the case (and it's appropriate) but it needs to be weighed against your cat sitting in high numbers. You've also had Henry on this dose (or thereabout) for a very long time. If your cat is at a dose that isn't getting him into more desirable numbers, you're risking glucose toxicity developing. Glucose toxicity is an awful term that means that your cat's system gets used to being in high numbers and treats them as the new "normal."

 

I agree with Sienne on the insulin dose increase. In spite of the fur shot a couple days ago, you've gotten enough data on this dose to see it isn't getting him where we want him to be.

Patterns in his numbers related to food will become more obvious as you get him out of higher numbers and into better ones. Keeping him from gaining weight is important, you should try weighing him on a baby or pet scale once a week or so to see if the food quantities are what they should be. Your vet should be able to tell you an ideal weight. Just make sure weight losses are done very slowly.

 

If you're just concerned that his ears are looking a little beat up from the poking I have seen a lot of members will put a dab of pure coconut oil on them
I have copied this from one of the members posts
just make sure the only ingredient is coconut oil (mine is solid at room temp and I would take an itty bitty dab and rub on his ears, just make sure its pure coconut oil
Or if it's just to get the blood to bead up use vaseline like Sienne mentioned

 

I do the libre 2 here and also use the ReliOn for blood. also have the novamax blood machine for ketones. I'm getting quite familiar with libres. I would use 100% coconut oil on prior site irritation. i bought a jar of it at target and that seems to work the best for us. My advice ( I learned the hardware) if you get a funky reading on the libre and it seems not in your range, always double check it with blood. Libres can and do malfunction. You can go to the abott libre website and sign up for the 14 day trial and receive a free sensor. When I signed up, I received the reader and a sensor for $65. I'm paying $37 for a sensor every two weeks. If the sensor malfunctions, call the abott libre technical support line. They will try to walk you through the issue or mail you a free replacement sensor.

 

Hi, I agree with the dose increase, I am eager to get him to the right dose and not lose more time. There is no sign of infection I was using Neosporin with pain relief thinking it would help him but pure coconut oil sounds great to me. I was doing a bit of Vaseline for the blood drop to form and following up with Neosporin. Less chemicals the better. About his prior Libre area - I tried olive oil and rubbing alcohol to clear the glue but could really never fully get it out - I will try pure coconut oil. The less chemicals the better. I bought a baby and pet scale and recently started monitoring his weight. He has been constant around 17 pounds. Will work on very slowly getting him to a better weight.
@Holtfam6 - I know the sensor is hit or miss. The first one died after a few hours. The 2 readings I managed to get were completely off. Showed 90 when at the vet he was over 400 with AT because they did a curve that day. I got all my money back but still being the first time it was pretty stressful. They also say the first day to not trust the readings while sensor is calibrating so maybe that was it. Had pretty good luck with the last 3 ones (my vet places them for free - I admire you for doing that on your own) but I agree with taking BG using ear poke. I will do ear pokes even if I have the libre because both of us need to get used to them. When the Libre was showing me a hypo event I should have done an ear poke but back then I was clueless. I have made quite a few mistakes but trying to learn from them. Sometimes that means to listen to the vet but follow your instincts

Thank you all for the great insights. Looking forward to kitty getting better. Will start log in tomorrow the new and hopefully improved numbers.

 

as far as the bright white LED headlamp, unfortunately they pretty much all seem to be like that these days.

We have moved to a combo headlamp/lense headgear that is sold as a jewler's headlamp and it has two brightness settings, the low one is a bit softer but still that LED white light

 

@Holtfam6 - I know the sensor is hit or miss. The first one died after a few hours. The 2 readings I managed to get were completely off. Showed 90 when at the vet he was over 400 with AT because they did a curve that day. I got all my money back but still being the first time it was pretty stressful. They also say the first day to not trust the readings while sensor is calibrating so maybe that was it. Had pretty good luck with the last 3 ones (my vet places them for free - I admire you for doing that on your own) but I agree with taking BG using ear poke. I will do ear pokes even if I have the libre because both of us need to get used to them. When the Libre was showing me a hypo event I should have done an ear poke but back then I was clueless. I have made quite a few mistakes but trying to learn from them. Sometimes that means to listen to the vet but follow your instincts

Thank you all for the great insights. Looking forward to kitty getting better. Will start log in tomorrow the new and hopefully improved numbers. [/QUOTE]

We all make mistakes. It's part of learning. This is definetly a new journey. That is why we are so lucky to have this board and so many resources to learn. I don't always do blood unless i feel a need. I have my libre 2 in and just did his night time check before insulin and the libre reads "high". Libre 2 won't register anything over 400 and I learned from this group, that numbers are better so I just did a blood check to see how "high". he was 484. It helps a lot with insulin adjustments.

 

We all make mistakes. It's part of learning. This is definetly a new journey. That is why we are so lucky to have this board and so many resources to learn. I don't always do blood unless i feel a need. I have my libre 2 in and just did his night time check before insulin and the libre reads "high". Libre 2 won't register anything over 400 and I learned from this group, that numbers are better so I just did a blood check to see how "high". he was 484. It helps a lot with insulin adjustments.[/QUOTE]

Interesting about the Libre 2 not reading anything over 400, the Free Libre 14 days registers up to 500, and if over 500 read HI. The vet prescribed the FL 14 days so I just went with it. Libre is great to see trends and see the nadir, but it is not perfect. Hence the many disclaimers they have for humans to check their BG when the way they feel does not match the readings. Still, I am very grateful, it is a great tool to use in conjunction with traditional readings. Even the glucose meters are not always accurate. I had a few lower than expected AT numbers (140 less in one instance) and noted usually that happens when there is not enough blood to test. We live and learn

 

Hi,

Started the 2.75 dose on Sunday morning and that day saw slightly better numbers but now they are going up again. My suspicion is that the raw chicken despite having no carbs basically maybe digested differently by him and is increasing his numbers, same with freeze dried raw products. Last night the numbers went up like crazy after feeding 1.25 oz hounds and gatos lamb (offered 2.5 oz but refused even with stella and chewy on it) and completed his meal with raw chicken so i can do the insulin. At PM +2, he finished the hounds and gatos and that was a pretty big meal i would say for 1.25 oz (but supposedly it has 1% carbs so I am very frustrated) . So his numbers went up since last night. Not sure if it is the food or what but based on prior history i am inclined to say that it is a good possibility. I stopped feeding the dry food completely but won't be able to stop the raw chicken or freeze dried because he got bored of most of his wet canned food already and I need to make it enticing or supplement it. He has been less energetic since they put the Libre sensor Saturday I think he is not too happy with it (but we both have to make sacrifices). Plus poor guy has the prior Libre area still stuck with a bit of glue that I could not fully get rid of it ( applied pure coconut oil and helped a little). I ordered a solution from Amazon recommended on this site to remove the glue from the prior Libre sensor so that should help. There is no redness or irritation just probably itching. He was scratching at it last night.

These numbers are pretty depressing (I wanted to cry last night about midnight when I saw they are not coming down but was too tired to do that) so I have some questions:
1) Now that there is no dry food in the picture outside of raw freeze dried can we do TR protocol? Or not, since he may be super sensitive to the freeze dried/raw chicken and probably all food over 5% (just a hunch). I am just scared he has been too high up for too long and TR maybe more suited at least in the beginning until we see better numbers. I also want to take the most advantage from the current Libre sensor that got placed this Saturday.
2)Should I stay the course with 2.75 or go to 3 starting tomorrow? If TR protocol is allowed then in theory today it will have been 6 cycles at 2.75. Or should i wait the full week as per the SLGS protocol? Am I too paranoid and should instead be patient?
3) Not sure what else to add in my food rotation. Weruva, Wellness, Fancy Feast -he got bored already. Ate some FF chopped (not sure how long that will last). I reviewed the list of foods and compared to Chewy site trying to make sure the carbs are still accurate but it is exhausting. The names of foods some have changed some foods no longer sold, or Chewy's site says they are now high in carbs. I asked questions about certain foods on Chewy sites and they said the manufacturer did not get back to them and i can try to contact by myself. Ugh. Anything else folks here are feeding their kitties that are low carb (preferably under 6%). I saw there is Orijen wet canned food for cats but could not get a carb percentage and probably not safe to calculate carbs on Guaranteed Analysis.
4) I saw somewhere for the hypo kit someone recommended the FF gravy lovers gourmet beef but could not find anywhere using this naming convention. I found Gourment Naturals (but seems to be under 10% carbs if you trust Chewy's Q &A ) or this one (roasted beef in gravy) or this one (grilled beef in gravy) both about 15% i think. None matches the gourmet naming and dr Lisa's chart does not have it either. Maybe someone can help. I have only Welness pouches in gravy (23%) now in my kit - which he was not overly keen on back in the day.
5) Should I start posting a daily condo on the Lantus thread?

Thank you so much for your support. Just so frustrated I am seeing higher numbers with the dose increase. I know it is part of the process and it takes time to get them regulated, it's just so hard sometimes. I know I should not complain because other folks have bigger problems.

Roxana and Henry

 

I am way too new to offer expert advice but I see progress in your spreadsheet! Do not despair. It is a marathon not a sprint, people used to always tell me when I was feeling down about Hendrick's numbers not coming down on a particular dose. Day after day of seeing those high numbers wears on you! Give yourself a hug. Hang in there, you're doing great.

As far as the Lantus forum, I'm over there a lot and yes go ahead and start a daily "condo" as they are called, glad to have you join us

 

@Hendrick Cuddleclaw Thank you for the encouragement. I know it will take some time. I will start posting tomorrow on the Lantus forum after getting an answer for my questions above so I don't ask the same questions.
Tagging @Wendy&Neko , @Sienne and Gabby (GA) - please see above - should I start at 3 units tomorrow or wait?

 

You have to decide whether you want to follow TR or SLGS before we can help with dosing. SLGS says to hold the dose 7 days and increase by 0.25 units. TR says to hold 3 days and increase by 0.5 units if you see nothing below 300 tonight.

Freeze dried all meat treats or raw are OK for following TR.

Going over to the Lantus forum will get more experienced eyes on you.

 

Thank you @Wendy&Neko. Appreciate it. I did not have the courage to go all the way to 3.25 today (0.5 increase) this morning and too exhausted to make a decision for TR or SGLS. I increased 0.25 and seeing even worse numbers today of course. I will wait another 6 cycles and if it is still not under 300 I will up with 0.5 per TR protocal. Will follow TR since we lost so much time (and basically probably passed the right dose when we increased to 5 in the past). It took Henry a long time for Lantus to even start working. When he was first diagnosed the vet gave him 0.5 units and had absolutely no effect. He is a big boy at 17 pounds he may need more insulin. If later for any reason we cannot do TR we can switch to SLGS. I will start posting in the Lantus forum.