New Member, Newly diagnosed

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Catherine

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Hi, We just joined. Irie is a 8 year old male cat. We just found out he has diabetes. He's currently on 1U twice a day and we've changed his diet.

My main issues are:
1. I'm blind and will have to learn how to care for the cat myself most of the time, although I do have sighted help from time to time. So my questions are going to be somewhat unusual.

2. The only only talking glucometers are for humans--can I sue those effectively?
3. Irie has a urinary tract issues, so he is on a urinary tract formula--we just bought a case of Purina UT wet food---it has 12% protien, low fat and low ash. I can't find out anything about carbs--does anyone know this food?

4. I amy need help being diplomatic with my vet who is not used to working with blind clients--I know not a cat health question but sort of.
Forgive the typos, once I start editing this field I can't review it with my screen reader.
Catherine & Irie
 
Welcome Cathrine and Irie! The people and cats here are great!

Some experts will be along to answer some of your questions for you. I don't have the answers you need.

I do have one for you - what kind of insulin is he on?
 
Hi Catherine!

Welcome to FDMB. My compliments to you for taking care of your cat.

As far as the glucose meter, you can certainly use a human one, in fact almost all of us do. If you can find a talking one that's great. Learning to hometest can be a challenge for most people, if you can do it then it is the best way to manage this disease. If you feel comfortable telling us where you live ( what state, and general area) we might have a member near you that could offer some personal help with learning to test and Vet recommendations.

For the food, wet (canned) food is best, I am not familar with the brand you mention but someone might know if it is ok for a diabetic. No question here is so unusual, ask away! I'm sure we can help with questions for your vet etc. most Vets aren't very experience with diabetes in gerneral so your case is for the vet most likely very intimidating.

What brand of insulin are you using?
 
Hi Catherine and welcome to the group.

Let's start with some questions first, this will help us help you.

Where are you located? City, state, province is fine. There may be members in your area that can assist you in person.

What type of insulin are you using?

What did you change his diet to? And how often are you feeding him?

Regarding meters - many of us use human glucometers to test our cats. This is perfectly fine to use. You don't need to buy the animal meters, as they are more expensive and the test strips can only be obtained from a vet.

Given that you need a talking meter, as long as you can easily get strips for it, you should be fine.

Dr. Lisa is a vet who supports this board and she recently wrote a piece on urinary tract issues and cats. Here is the link, http://www.catinfo.org/feline_urinary_tract_health.htm

Also, please read her link about food, nutrition and cats: http://www.catinfo.org/index.htm

After reading it, you may decide to change the food. As many of us here believe that the prescription food is not high quality food and is very expensive. Here is a link to Janet & Binky's food charts that gives a breakdown of carbs, fat, protein, phosphorus, calories, etc. for many commercial as well as prescription foods.

The chart is broken into dry and canned foods and under canned foods, there are two charts, please check both. http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm

I am unclear what your last question is asking, but if I interpret correctly, you want to know what questions do you ask your vet?

Please come back and let us know and also please ask any and all your questions.
 
Catherine said:
3. Irie has a urinary tract issues, so he is on a urinary tract formula--we just bought a case of Purina UT wet food---it has 12% protien, low fat and low ash. I can't find out anything about carbs--does anyone know this food?
Click to expand...


I'm betting that the prescription food is sky-high in carbs, just like many other prescription junk foods. I couldn't find UT on the Purina site, just UR st/ox which is for urinary problems: http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/Fe ... x?prod=237 Ingredients for that are Meat by-products, water sufficient for processing, liver, chicken, poultry by-products, rice, calcium gluconate, oat fiber, .... Too many junk quality and high carb ingredients for a diabetic cat to have.

Honestly, you do not need to feed the prescription food. Low carb canned foods are best, even for urinary tract problems. The key is to ensure good water intake, not feed junky worthless ingredients. Canned food has a high water content, dry food has almost none. http://www.catinfo.org has many mmore reasons why canned foods are best for all cats and why many health issues are caused by dry foods.

You can return the prescription food to the vet for a refund. Just say that your cat won't eat it. Feed your cat a commercial brand of canned food. Fancy Feast and Friskies are two well known brands you can feed. Now, not all varieites within a brand are good to feed to a diabetic cat. You want to feed only the low carb ones. To figure that out, use the famous Binky's food charts: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html There are two canned food charts so have your sighted person look at both for you and help you choose foods. Look at the column for carbs and choose foods that have a number 10 or less.

A list of good treats to feed is here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=445

How often does the sighted person help you out? Is the person willing to help you with your diabetic cat? You will need help measuring the insulin and correctly injecting your cat.
 
Hi,
I'm new here myself, and have been treating my cat Tananda with only my vets assistance for the past 2 1/2 months. But after being shocked at the price of Purina DM I began my quest for information. In regards to your 3rd question. figuring out the carbs on canned food is easy. Just add together the Protein, Fat, Fiber and Moisture, subtract that from 100 and you have the carb level. Good Luck
 
figuring out the carbs on canned food is easy. Just add together the Protein, Fat, Fiber and Moisture, subtract that from 100 and you have the carb level.
Click to expand...

Not quite that simple, that's just part of the equation, you need the % in the dry matter.

I didn't want to get to detailed but for anyone who wants to know how it works, I had explained this before.

When we talk about "less than 10% carbs" we are reffering to the fact that the food has say 8% of it's calories from carbohydrates. The actual carbohydrate amount (scientifically Nitrogen free extract=NfE) in the orginal or dry substance is calculated as follows using as fed values (not the Minimum and maximim given on most labels)

Subtract the as fed values of protien, fat, ash, fiber, and moisure from 100%

100% - crude protien% - crude fat% - ash% - crude fiber% - moisture% = NfE (carbohydrate)%

example canned food: 100% - 10% - 5,5% - 2,5% - 1,0% - 79% = 2% NfE
example dry food: 100% - 30% - 10% - 6,5% - 2,5% - 9% = 42% NfE



To calculate the carbohydrate content in the dry substance



canned food: 100% - 79% moisture = 21% dry matter (DM) = 0,21
dry food: 100% - 9% moisture = 91% dry matter (DM) = 0,91


Then divide the carbohydrate procent by the DM

canned food: 2% NfE / 0,21 = 9,52% carbs in the dry substance
dry food: 42% NfE / 0,91 = 46,15% carbs in the dry substance

So the food charts are correct, and dry food is inherently higher in carbs not because of the lack of moisture but because of the ingredients in the dry matter (mostly corn meal, wheat, and other grains/plant material).
 
I asked my husband what insulin we were prescribed and he came back with "rDNA", which I found out is just the generic name. I'll have to wait for him to get back in town or ask the vet for which kind she prescribed. Right now we are giving 1U bid. Frank (husband) will be back in two weeks and we'll be back at the vet for a glucose curve.

The food we have is wet food and is not a prescription diet. We found it at Petco. Fancy Feast is my other best choice.
I'm in Germantown MD

My husband left me with prefilled syringes for the time he is away and I'm talking to some of my blind diabetic friends to find out how they give themselves insulin. There are devices out there to help me loat a syringe correctly.
Irie is still drinking more than a cup of water a day, but his coat looks better than it did a week ago and he is more active.

Thanks for all the links for more information.
C.
 
Hi, Catherine, and welcome!

Can you be more specific about your kitty's urinary issues? Crystals, infection, cystitis, something else? It may be that a special food isn't needed.

And can you either edit your original topic line to include your location, or give me permission to edit it for you? We may have members near you who can help you out.

-- Janet
 
Re: Welcome, and about the food....

Welcome to the FDMB! The rDNA insulin may be Lantus, or glargine. When is your husband coming back? Certain types of insulins may not keep well in plastic syringes, so is there a way you can find out what type of insulin? Perhaps call the pharmacy or the vet on Monday?

RE: Squeem3's post .... Just a clarification here:
squeem3 said:
Honestly, you do not need to feed the prescription food. Low carb canned foods are best, even for urinary tract problems.
Click to expand...

I would be cautious saying this without knowing the nature of the problem. If the cat has idiopathic cystitis, this is applicable. If the cat has been diagnosed with stones, he may need a special diet for dissolution of those stones and sticking to the diet may be important in that case. A friend's cat develops oxalate crystals and stones on high-quality, low-carb canned food (and any other canned or dry food) so she is on a prescription food now and will stay there. It's not common, but some cats do have specific conditions which are responsive to the rx foods we love to bash.
 
Re: Welcome, and about the food....

Jess & Earl said:
I would be cautious saying this without knowing the nature of the problem. If the cat has idiopathic cystitis, this is applicable. If the cat has been diagnosed with stones, he may need a special diet for dissolution of those stones and sticking to the diet may be important in that case. A friend's cat develops oxalate crystals and stones on high-quality, low-carb canned food (and any other canned or dry food) so she is on a prescription food now and will stay there. It's not common, but some cats do have specific conditions which are responsive to the rx foods we love to bash.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's good to know! I was thinking wet food is better for any stones, just because it's more moisture & water going into the cat's system. Good to know there is a use for those foods though.

Welcome Catherine & Irie! Hopefully this board will help you as best it can with your kitty. I've seen commercials for the talking glucometer, but haven't known anyone who has it. Intrigued to see how it works for you & your kitty!

I am kind of concerned if you're using an insulin that won't be as effective in a preloaded syringe. Please update us when you know for sure which insulin you guys are using. Hopefully we can find some members near you that may be able to help you initially!

Welcome aboard!
 
Catherine said:
Irie has a urinary tract issues, so he is on a urinary tract formula--we just bought a case of Purina UT wet food---it has 12% protien, low fat and low ash. I can't find out anything about carbs--does anyone know this food?
Click to expand...

I just wanted to say I admire your commitment to your kitty. And that you are taking this on while your husband (DH) is not around to help you.

I also think you meant UR not UT. http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/Fe ... x?prod=237 is the link to the Purina website about their food. It is for "Urinary acidification" and "Promotes increased water intake" If I am wrong about this, then the information below should be taken lightly - and as Jess said above, you should know what the reason for the food before making decisions about changing.

The reason you need to acidify the urine is because of the high plant matter in most standard foods. We generally refer to that as carbs, but it can also include the soy protein or wheat gluten (a plant based protein source). Generally the more meat you feed your cat, the better chance you have of keeping the cat's urine in the correct PH range. Purina (and other "urinary" foods) add an acidifier to overcome the plant material in their foods. A lot of cats when put on a low carb high protein diet no longer need an outside acidifier, but if your cat does, there are options at your local health food store to help you out.

I had two cats block with urinary crystals. Both were recommended to be put on the Hill's version of UR (it is called C/D) but both did perfectly well on a low carb high protein high moisture content diet. Not all cats do, so it will be something you will need to watch.

Connie
 
Connie & Em (GA) said:
Catherine said:
Irie has a urinary tract issues, so he is on a urinary tract formula--we just bought a case of Purina UT wet food---it has 12% protien, low fat and low ash. I can't find out anything about carbs--does anyone know this food?
Click to expand...
snip
The reason you need to acidify the urine is because of the high plant matter in most standard foods. We generally refer to that as carbs, but it can also include the soy protein or wheat gluten (a plant based protein source). Generally the more meat you feed your cat, the better chance you have of keeping the cat's urine in the correct PH range. Purina (and other "urinary" foods) add an acidifier to overcome the plant material in their foods. A lot of cats when put on a low carb high protein diet no longer need an outside acidifier, but if your cat does, there are options at your local health food store to help you out.

I had two cats block with urinary crystals. Both were recommended to be put on the Hill's version of UR (it is called C/D) but both did perfectly well on a low carb high protein high moisture content diet. Not all cats do, so it will be something you will need to watch.

Connie
Click to expand...

Hill's webpage for feline CD mentions nothing about CD acidifying urine. That site:
http://www.hillspet.com/products/prescr ... anned.html
states:
"Prescription Diet® c/d® Multicare Feline is formulated with the following benefits:
Controlled levels of calcium, magnesium, phosphorus and oxalate to help limit the building blocks of crystals and bladder stones
Rich in fish oil - an excellent source of Omega-3 fatty acids - to help promote healthy skin and a shiny coat
Added potassium citrate to help interrupt bladder stone formation
Increased levels of vitamin B6 to help decrease oxalate formation
Low sodium to maintain normal blood pressure
High in antioxidants (Vitamin E and Beta-Carotene) to control cell oxidation and promote a healthy immune system"

Years ago Hills changed the formulation and name of this product and a corresponding product. One of the old products acidified urine and the other made it more basic. Now there is only one product that helps prevent stones and crystals.
 
I'm back with some answers --sorry it took me so long.

Irie is on Lantis)(spelling?) a long lasting (24 hour) type. He gets two doses 12 hours apart.

His urinary tract issue was severe cystitis about two years ago. He has not been on any special food for the last 8 months becuase he was with my step-daughter and she took him off the special diet.

I've had cats before that did very well on wet food with the problem, so I know I don't have to buy the vet PD. I'll probably switch him to Fancy Feast later.

Irie seems to be doing better this week--being more active. He still wakes me up in the middle of the night and seems to be happy with a tablespoon of Purina DM dry. I've been assuming that he has low blood sugar. I don't have a glucometer yet, so I'm guessing. He's dringking less water and using the cat box less and his coat feels good..

Catherine (& Irie)


My mother ws a Type I diabetic, so I'm familiar with the schedule of food and insulin.
 
Glad you came back, Catherine.

Lantus is a great insulin and twice a day, 12 hours apart is perfect. So now the question: How much does he get?

Fancy Feast is fine and lots of us feed it. Stay away from the gravy types. I know we gave you the food chart; don't know who easy it is for you to access it.

So the last piece to this puzzle is to test his blood glucose at home. Then you can be sure that you are not giving too much insulin or that he is getting too little. This is my favorite site for all you need to know about hometesting: http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm

It is incredible how calm and confident you sound. Most of us are sighted and can certainly be frantic, with all there is to learn and do.

Are you waiting for the free kit from Cindy and Mousie? Or are you planning to buy one on your own? If it's the later, people really like the ReliOn from Walmart. It's expensive and so are the strips.

Come back often, let us know how things are going and what we can do to help.
 
Sue and Oliver said:
... people really like the ReliOn from Walmart. It's expensive and so are the strips.....
Click to expand...

Sue, I presume you meant to say "it's inexpensive" ... Wouldn't want to scare someone off a good possibility for lack of a couple of letters!
 
Hi Sue and Oliver,

I'm not really as calm, but I've decided that Irie and I are both in God's hands and that helps.

I'm giving him 1 unit twice a day. It doesn't sound like much, but until we can do a glucose curve, the vet can't make any corrections.

I'm ordering the Clever Chek talking glucometer from Hocks. My DH will be home Sat. and as soon as the meter arrives we can check him. I also have a device coming called "Sure Shot" that is supposed to help me load a syringe accurately. If it doesn't work, I'll contact a blind diabetic forum I found to find out what I can use.

He (Irie) actually came downstairs tonight to beg for food from the table. Now if anyone knows of a good less expensive source for the Lantus?

I really love this site. I've learned so much and I'm not as hysterical as I was two weeks ago.

Thanks, Catherine
 
I was not a Lantus user, but if you get your vet to write the prescription for cartridges, or solostar pens
instead of the 10ml vial, it is cheaper in the long run.

Lantus 'goes bad' in a relatively short time after opening (28 days as stated by manufacturer).
Many use is longer by keeping is refrigerated instead of at room temp.

But you will still be throwing out most of a 10ml vial.

The cartridges come in lots of 5 cartridges, 3ml each.

You open a new cartridge once per month or longer if the Lantus is still good.

That way you are not tossing out as much.
 
Hi Catherine,

Glad to see you back. And I am very impressed. My mom is blind and I can just imagine what a challenge a diabetic cat would present. You are doing so well!

We all will be interested in hearing how the talking glucometer works for you. What a wonderful invention!
 
Re: not so New Member, Newly diagnosed--Germantown, MD

Okay, We're back...after 18 months.

Let me catch you up on Irie's health.

My DH arrived home, but we discovered we were squeemish about taking his BG, so we opted for the monthly test at the vet. Iries seemed to be doing fine. In fact, he was almost off the insulin (OTJ?) by Christmas.

Suddenly, in Feb. he went out of control....we have been unable to get him regulated since then. My vet is concerned about a somogyi effect.

I cannot take his BG by myself ( blind issues - see previous posts in this thread) and my DH is also having difficulty doing it easily on a regular basis. Both of us feel as though we are torturing our poor kitty. Is there a good verbal instruction for taking BG on cats?
Does anyone know of another blind cat owner who does this?
What are some of the reasons his diabetes may be out of control?


Getting desperate in MD,
Catherine
 
Here is the video for taking bg levels: Video for hometesting

It is possible that something else is causing the high levels. Has he been checked out by a vet for infections? That can raise the levels.

We have a forum of just Lantus users. I will post over there to see if there is anyone who lives near you.
 
Hi there Catherine!

Welcome! I'm not too far away, just up the road in Baltimore, and I'm happy to help you out. It sounds like you have already located some great resources (the talking BG meter, diabetic blind forum and of coarse FDMB).

When Black Kitty was on Lantus, we found the best price was at Costco. We would purchase the cartridges, I think there were 5 per pack. You don't need to be a Costco member to use their pharmacy.

Let me k now how I can help.
 
A couple of additional points....

The Lantus cartridges were discontinues in January. You can use the Solostar pens instead. (It's the cartridge in a plastic case which protects the glass cartridge.)

You had mentioned that your husband was pre-filling syringes. You really can't pre-fill a Lantus syringe. It's one of those types of insulin that will not hold up if you pre-fill for more than a couple of hours.

If Irie fell out of regulation, I would encourage you to get health issues investigated. Also, many diabetic cats will have problems with their numbers if they have dental problems.

Finally, how old is your insulin? If you haven't changed your insulin for more than 2 months, you may need to use fresh Lantus.

The concept of Somogyi is controversial, at best. The original research was done in 1938 on humans and there have been no studies, to date, that have replicated the original findings. Further, there are no studies with long acting insulin, like Lantus, that document chronic Somogyi rebound.
 
From reading your other post - it looks like the initial dose increases this time around were on the old vial and then you switched to a new vial. Did I read that right? If so, the 3.5 units that the dose is at now could be too much with the new, fresh insulin.

Testing your kitty at home at first can feel like torture, I know. Make sure to give your kitty a low carb treat every time you test and in no time they will start associating the test with good things! My Oscar now purrs through every test and comes walking up to the couch when I call him for test time. They truly will begin to see it as a normal thing in their day. Another member here has posted a video for your husband to watch if he wishes to. Start by warming up the ear - either by rubbing it to increase blood flow, or holding a little sock filled with rice that has been warmed in the microwave against the ear. Once the ear is nice and warm, use a lancet pokey thing and prick the outer edge of the ear. There is a small vein about 3-4 mm from the edge of the ear. Ideally you want to poke between that vein and the edge. Sometimes you may poke through the ear, but it is really ok and doesn't harm them. I use the lancet and freehand poke - the little device you put it in for humans is big and clunky and not as accurate for poking for me! Once you have poked, you usually have to 'milk' the ear around the poke to make the blood come out so you can test. After you have sipped the blood into the test strip on the meter, hold a tissue against the spot (like pressing the ear between the tissue and your finger tips) for 10-15 seconds to stop any bleeding and prevent a bruise on the ear. Especially in the beginning, cat ears don't like to bleed as easily and are more likely to bruise than later on. Trust us - it does get better and easier!!!!
 
Most of us started with a fear of testing. After a week you wonder why you were afraid. Kitty associates treats and brushing with it, and then come right away. I think most of us just use the lancet in our hands rather than the lancet that clicks. Warm ear is also crucial.
 
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