New member need help

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Danielle&Ohana, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    Hello my name is Danielle and I’m the proud pet momma of my 5 year old boy Ohana. I rescued him from death when I found him covered in mange. He lost his sight in one of his eyes but we nurses him back to health, we have dealt with agression issues with him and underlying Skin conditions From the mange then he was diagnosed with severe stomatitis which he needs steroid shots every few months to keep under control and have recently been diagnosed with diabetes. I just joined this group last night and have already learned stuff but all of it was quite scary. My vet is actually an emergency vet I’ve had treat my animals because he charges a decent price and I have several other cats with issues as well. One just had a PU surgery and almost died. He is only 3. (But he’s recovering now.) I took Ohana in for what I thought was a uti. Turns out he had sugar in his urinalysis and they tested him for diabetes and his numbers were at 415 he kept him overnight and told me come in that morning to train how to give insulin and test at home. He told me to use his foot to get blood (which I ended up learning at home about the ear instead) and gave me a chart to follow to add or decrease the dose. And he started him on 4 units of insulin. He told me to get it at Walmart (novilen I believe it’s called) and just follow the chart. He also told me to keep him on M/D food every 12 hours after testing his BGL then give insulin. I was told by Chris that this is an insane amount of insulin (it was up to 15 mg which they still insisted I follow the chart) went down to 8 and back up to 12 as of yesterday. His blood sugar dropped to 35 last night so we gave him karo syrup and was up past 2 till I got a reading of 126 and felt comfortable to go to sleep. He never shows any signs of anything. He’s always normal no lethargy no nothing. I’m taking chris advice to not give any insulin right now. I did a reading this morning and it was 303 then I fed him. I’m wondering how long it will take after all that insulin for it to show me the true reading. I also have set up an apt with a new vet but can’t get in till the 29th because of the virus. I’m So upset because I am just following my doctors guidance and now I’m wondering if he’s even diabetic at all. Any help would be appreciated I also attached the guidelines chart my vet told me to follow and my readings and adjustments
     

    Attached Files:

  2. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    WELCOME TO FDMB I'm glad you found us and I agree with Chris. I'm thinking you talked with Chris and China? Shes one of our best experts. She really knows her stuff. Many here do.
    You are already home testing (Thats a big hurdle you've already cleared) at least your vet gave that info correctly!
    I am no expert but even I would drop that dose it 1 unit then go from there.
    Hold on for more replies
    I just wanted to officially welcome you and Ohana to the best darn site on this planet to get answers and guidance.

    You will be asked to set up a spread sheet and signature. The signature gives our helpers at a glance knowledge of Ohanas insulin type , what kind of food he eats all the little particulars. This info will appear at the bottom of each post you make.
    The spread sheet tracks how the insulin works in Ohanas body.
    you can find that info here:
    Suggestions, Tech Support & Testing Area

    Again Welcome Danielle and Ohana :bighug:
    jeanne
     
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Omg you are a saint. This poor baby. Well the good news is you found a super helpful group and diabetes is treatable. Cats can live long healthy lives with it.
    The problem with following a chart is while 1 unit might barely move one cats number, for another cat it might bring him down so low they go into hypoglycemia. The recommended starting dose is 1 unit twice a day. After testing it can be increased 0.5 units at a time of needed. Starting at 4 units is really dangerous as you found out. Please start at 1 unit for the safety of your pet, and I'm so glad you are starting to find another vet for this. Your vet may be generally good, but it doesn't seem like he knows diabetes treatment. When you get a new vet ask them for a perscription for lantus or ProZinc insulin. It's not as harsh and lasts longer than Novolin. :)

    I'm so glad to hear you are home testing!

    With a reading in the 400's he probably IS diabetic, but the dose was just 4x more than he should have had.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  4. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Hey Danielle and Ohana!! So glad you followed through and posted here too.

    One thing....insulin is measured in units, not mg, so I'm sure you were started at 4U, been as high as 15 units and been bouncing in between based on your vet's crazy idea's of treating a diabetic cat.

    My suggestion now is to change ALL your cats to low carb canned food. Not only will you not have to worry about what food Ohana is eating, your other cats will be healthier and have a much lower chance of becoming diabetic. If I remember right they are eating C/D. We've had lots of cats here that were on that due to urinary tract issues and when they were switched to low carb canned with extra water, the urinary problems went away too. There's actually nothing in those "prescription" foods that treats disease. The key to good urinary tract health is water....the more water you have flowing through the system, the better!

    The solution to pollution is dilution!! A mouse is the perfect food for a cat and it's about 80% water...the same as canned food!

    Next, since you skipped this morning's insulin, Ohana may be higher tonight so since all you have is Novolin N right now, if he's over 250 at his regular shot time, give him 1 unit.
    1 unit on insulin syringe.jpg This is 1U on a syringe with half unit marks.

    You want to test first (when he hasn't eaten for at least 2 hours) so you get a number that's not influenced by food. Then feed him a normal sized meal, wait 45 min to 1 hour and shoot. You want to make sure he eats a good amount and give that food some time to break down and get into the bloodstream before you shoot because Novolin is a hard hitting, harsh insulin.

    Get another test 2 hours after the shot and at least 1 more "before bed".

    Personally, I'd call the "new" vet and find out what insulin they usually use. If it's not Lantus, Basaglar (both are Glargine insulin) or ProZinc, you may need to keep looking for a vet. Glargine and ProZinc are the only 2 insulin's that are currently recommended by the AAHA for treatment in diabetic cats.

    When you can, go ahead and set up your Signature so people won't have to keep asking the same questions and get our spreadsheet started. You should have some numbers in the memory of your meter. If you need help with the spreadsheet, I'd be happy to set it up for you. I've done enough that it only takes me about a minute once I have some information. You can contact me on Facebook which is probably faster than here but either one works!

    Hang in there! You're in the best place you never wanted to be now and we'll all help you as much as we can!
     
  5. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020

    Thank you so much to everyone commenting!!! I sent you a friend request and message on Facebook chris to get help with that spreadsheet because I’m lost on that lol. Ohana and I are up late and late to rise. So we was doing 12 am 12 pm insulin and feedings today I checked it for record purposes and it was 301 at 1:12 pm fed him tested again in at 3:23 pm and it went down without any insulin to 258 tested it again at 6:30 pm and it’s 307 and I gave him food again after that. So I usually do insulin at midnight. Should I give him 1 unit of insulin because it was 307 or should I just not? Also thanks for clarifying that it’s units not mg! :)
     
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  6. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Make sure your signature is up-to-date.
    • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
      • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
      • Add any other text, such as
      • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
      • DX: Date
      • Name of Insulin
      • Name of your meter
      • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
      • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
      • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
      • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
      • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
      • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
    Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
     
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  7. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    Hey! Thanks so much I just tried putting all that info in and it says it’s 745 characters to long ‍♀️
     
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  8. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi Danielle take a look at my signature that's all you need.
    Then go to your pic and hit profile then information and that's where you can put much more.
    You can take a look at mine.
    Hit the pic of my cat and then Profile then information and you can see I have more info :cat:
     
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  9. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Ha ha yeah they really don't give much room. Look at how we write it out. Just the basics.

    Add info such as your pets name, date diagnosed,insulin,meter, and any other health concerns.

    Single words mostly not sentences.
     
  10. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    There you go!! Good job!!
     
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  11. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I see you at it up, awesome. That will be super helpful. How are you feeling about all this? Still anxious? Feeling a little more confident? I hope you at least feel like you aren't alone. We are here to support you through this. You clearly love this kitty and he will do great.
     
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  12. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020

    Thank you so very much! I feel okay but my heart hurts that I could have killed him because I trusted this vet. It haunts me but I’m so grateful I found this group. His numbers are in the 300s but I’m going to Walmart today to get the ReliOn meter and test strips and fancy feast classics to help get the numbers down. I have no clue why this M/D food is supposed to be good for him but it’s not. Chris also helped me a ton and told me about Lantus insulin and how I can get it from Canada for way cheaper so I’m going to call the New vet I have an apt with and make sure they will prescribe him that insulin before I even go there. I’m just scared cause his numbers are in the 300s still
     
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  13. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
     

    Attached Files:

  14. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    good plan. You will want to get
    1. the meter
    2. at least one vial of extra test strips
    3. a box of 28 gauge lancets
    4. a thing of cosmetic cotton rounds
    5. fancy feast
    6. Neosporin ointment with pain relief just in case the ears get sore
    7. a treat for yourself

    :) If it makes you feel any better my cat didn't get any numbers out of the 300's until I was 8 weeks in... and no preshots out of the 300's until I was 10 weeks in. It's a marathon. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  15. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You'd be shocked to know all the people that have been through the same thing. The companies that make that "special" food give kick backs (money or free products) to the Vets to push their food. There are some RX food that ARE good for cats but the ones labeled "Diabetic"? not so much.
    Ohana sure is a beautiful kitty cat.:bighug:

    BTW 300 isnt too terrible of a number. Once you get rolling with this program, those numbers will come down.
    We have a saying here"
    Diabetes is NOT a sprint...Its a marathon.;)
     
  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    actually they changed what it says on the bag... it used to say "diabetic management"... it now says "Dietetic Management"... probably because they know it was terrible for diabetics.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  17. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    Right?? I just looked up the carb amount and it has over 15 grams of carbs in it. I just printed out a page of fancy feast classics that are all less than 10 grams of carbs. I have a few questions. He is 12 pounds and I have no idea how much to feed him. He really enjoys his dry food as well which is why I ordered both m/d dry and wet. I also have a lot of others cats on c/d diet so is there a food out there that’s good for urinary tract health and diabetics. I used to free feed all the time and now with Ohana I have to separate him to put down food for the others. My other cat just had a PU surgery so he’s on the c/d to pass bladder stones. But once we pass that bridge I would like to find something more affordable and compatible for all. 2 bags of c/d is what it takes to feed my cats in a month and that’s $170 and that’s not counting what I have to feed Ohana separately. Also how much should I be feeding Ohana. The original vet that doesn’t know what he’s talking about said every 12 hours after testing his blood glucose levels. Is that correct or should I feed him more often and how much? Thanks in advance
     
  18. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    300's aren't good, but they're not awful either. We've had cats here in the 600's+

    Did you go ahead with the 1 unit today?

    Is 12lbs a good weight for him? A good place to start is 20 calories per pound of ideal weight, so you'd start at about 240 calories per day. Each can of FF is 85-90 calories (exact numbers are on Dr. Lisa's food chart) so that'd be about 3 cans per day. Weigh once a week and adjust as needed.
     
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  19. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    The rule of thumb is ABOUT 20 calories per pound of IDEAL weight. Is 12 a good weight for him? or does he need to gain or loose? If it's good then it would be about 240 calories per day he would need of food. Don't let him eat that c/d food. haha so that would be about 3 cans of food per day. You could split it into several smaller meals. you could do a can in the morning, half can mid day.... then no food at least 2 hours before the preshot test, then a can at dinner, and a half can before bed.
     
  20. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    omg you and I wrote almost the same thing word for word. hahahaha
     
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  21. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    I did give him the one unit last night and today :) and okay I’m going to need a lot of cans lol
     
  22. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020

    He probably could loose a little weight he’s round lol
     
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  23. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi Danielle, you are in good hands here and thank you for saving his life.
    You will like the lantus.
    You also can feed him more than just 2 times a day. Am and PM his bigger meals and you can feed him a smaller portion during each 12 hour cycle.

    You might also want to pick up some Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers just in case he goes really low. You would feed the gravry lovers to carb him up, bring his BG up.
    With lantus you would use U-100 syringes with half unit markings.
    The half unit marking syringes makes it easier to increase and decrease by 0.25 units
    Make sure you pick up lancets at Walmart either 26 or 28 gauge.
    In the beginning this/size will make him bleed better.
    You can then switch to smaller ones. I have always stayed with the 28 gauge
    Oh and pick up some cotton rounds ,after you prick his ears you will press on them for a couple of seconds to stop the bleeding.
     
  24. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020

    Hey Janet! He is 12 pounds but he is round maybe he should be a little less? I’m not sure
     
  25. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020

    Okay great I will look at the gauge size I feel so bad pricking his ears :(
     
  26. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020

    Okay great I will look at the gauge size I feel so bad pricking his ears :(
     
  27. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    [QUO
    I felt bad in the beginning , it's like second nature now, sometimes I even test Tyler when he's sleeping, just put the cotton round behind his ear and the prick the ear.
     
  28. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    oooops 12 pounds. my bad. ok so lets say he should be 10-11 lbs. about 200-220 calories. so that would be about 2.5 cans a day
     
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  29. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    watch my video in the signature... When I did that video I wanted to make sure I got a sample so I even peirced all the way through. She didn't care at all. They have very few nerve endings in the very outer ear. [​IMG]
     
  30. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Here is the chart :http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

    Just in case you ever need higher carbs to bring his BG up

    Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

    Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs

    Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs

    Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs
     
  31. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020

    Wow that’s a really long chart!!! Thanks for sending it to me and I am screen shooting all this great info. Any ideas on dry food for him since he likes his dry food?
     
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  32. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    there are only a handful of dry foods under 10 carb. Dr. Elsey's clean protein chicken, Young Again Zero Carb, and Wysong Epigen 90. All the companies will send you a free sample if you email and ask.
     
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  33. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

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    Jul 13, 2020
    Great thank you!!!
     
  34. LoveforTucker

    LoveforTucker Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2020
    Welcome Danielle and Ohana!! So true! This site has saved me on SO many levels!! That food chart was extremely helpful to me, lots of work went into making that. I basically just feed my kitties FF now, I mix Tuckers FF with the DM Pro plan. Good luck! :) :bighug:
     
  35. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    I just picked up everything I needed for Ohana at Walmart and ordered fancy feast from chewy and just got him some cans here till I get my chewy order in!
     
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  36. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

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    Jul 13, 2020

    thank u so much for making that food chart I look forward to looking it over later!
     
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  37. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

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    Jul 13, 2020
    So I just did a reading and it’s been hours since he ate. The new prime meter I just got showed his blood glucose level at 178 so I did it again with the alpha trak and that one showed 256.
     
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  38. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    That sounds about right. THe prime is a human meter, so it's going to read lower then an alphatrak. the numbers are closer together at lower ranges, and far apart at higher numbers. The scale for normal on a human meter is 50-120 and on an alphatrack it's 68-150
     
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  39. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    The Lord knew what He was doing when He made the cat. Ever see a non-neutered Tomcat? Their ears are usually pretty torn up from fighting other males for the right to woo the lady kitties in the area.

    So the edges of the ears have few pain receptors. It's not that the poking hurts them..it's more that cats just don't like having their ears fooled with (but that's easy to get around..a high value treat every time you touch the ears work miracles on changing their focus from what the silly human is doing with their ears to the yummy treat waiting for him once they're done)
     
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  40. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    And that's with 1 unit.....I am still dumbfounded that your vet had you giving him up to 15 units!!

    Unless it's absolutely the ONLY thing he'll eat, you should really steer away from kibble completely, especially since you have cats with a history of blockages. For one thing, the weakest organs in ANY cat are the kidneys....almost all cats over about age 10 will have some degree of decreased kidney function. The best thing you can do is keep as much water flowing through them as possible to keep them flushed out and as healthy as they can be.

    A couple of pieces of kibble as a treat isn't the end of the world, but it really should be avoided as "something to snack on in between meals". Dr. Lisa (who did all that work on the food chart) occasionally posts on this message board and when she heard about the new low carb kibble foods, she posted this thread on "Dry Food..PLEASE consider more than carb content"
     
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  41. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

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    Jul 13, 2020
    Thank you so much! So I’ll just follow the new prime meter results and watch that video on how to use the google spreadsheet so I can update that as well. I mixed the fancy feast with the m/d for lunch and he did good with it. Will test again before insulin time and do one unit again. I tried to call the new vet but was unable to get ahold of them will call again tomorrow to make sure they will prescribe Lantus insulin
     
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  42. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    let me know if you need anything about the spreadsheet explained. :)
     
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  43. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

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    Jul 13, 2020
    So sorry guys I have been super sick I’m going to update my spreadsheet tonight. I have been feeding 3 times a day fancy feast classics the recommended amount and 1 unit every 12 hours with the prime machine. I’m so grateful for everyone’s help
     
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  44. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Oh no! I hope you're feeling better soon. It's hard to keep up with all the feedings and medicines and tests when you aren't feeling well. :(
     
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  45. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

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    Jul 13, 2020
    Thank you so much I know it’s unrelated to the chat but I have been dealing with a terrible cough and trouble breathing 9 months, diagnosed with bronchitis 3 times but I finally was able to see a doctor who is helping me and I see a pulmonologist on the 28th most likely it’s uncontrolled asthma. I have to be on a long term steroid and they make me really sick and unable to sleep and have vertigo so it’s been difficult but at least I’m able to breath a bit
     
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  46. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Ugh that sounds miserable. I hope the steroids help. I had a cough for months about 10 years ago... diagnosed with asthma, but it still wouldn't go away. went to a gastroenterologist who did a scope and we figured out it was from acid reflux getting into my lungs. crazy. nexium helped for a while, then it came back... you know what finally stopped it? taking apple cider vinegar in the morning for a few days. home remedy. all those months of discomfort solved with something under my cabinet. hahaha
     
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  47. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

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    Jul 13, 2020
    Vet day tomorrow with the new vet and I must get this spreadsheet filled out. Thanks for helping everyone prayers please I’m nervous taking my boy to the new vet
     
  48. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    At least you know more about treatment now so won't just blindly "do what you're told"!

    You've got this!!
     
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  49. Danielle&Ohana

    Danielle&Ohana New Member

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    Jul 13, 2020
    I’m so sorry for not updating!! I’ve had a lot going on!! I wanted to let everyone know the second doctor and I learned Ohana was misdiagnosed and he is not even diabetic!!! His stomatitis wAs severe and I was able to get most of his teeth pulled for a good price! He is home now recovering! I want to thank you all for all your kind words of encouragement and help in my time of need
     
  50. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    What fantastic news!!!

    So happy for you and Ohana and hope he recovers soon!!

    Now take what you've learned about diet and hopefully you'll have many more healthy and happy years together!
     
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  51. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Awwwwww Poor Ohana! Stomotitis is bad enough. So happy to hear this news!

    LIVE WELL OHANA!
     
  52. Sam&Milo&Singha

    Sam&Milo&Singha Member

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    Jul 2, 2020
    I’m glad your kitty is not diabetic! Good luck with him.
     
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