New Member: My Cat Joey

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Brytny&Joey

Member Since 2013
Hello, My name is Brytny and I have a 5 year old named Joey (He'll be 6 on April 27th). We live on Vancouver Island, BC, Canada. He was diagnosed as diabetic approx Dec 11/2012 after severe dehydration caused me to take him to the emergency vet clinic (I feel soooooooooo bad that I hadn't noticed until it was very bad, but his behaviour didn't really change until he was very constipated - I guess his un-diagnosed diabetes had him peeing so much to make him dehydrated). He is currently on Caninsulin at 2 units twice a day, recently increased from one unit twice a day. He is eating two cans of Purina DM twice a day, corresponding with his insulin injections. I do home testing with a One Touch Ultra 2, but had to switch lancets because the ones it came with were too thin to get enough blood from his ear. But doing OK with this now. He is pretty good at letting me stab him, poor guy.

His first blood glucose curve done at the vet clinic in December put him lowest at 11 mmoles/L (x 18 = 198 mg/dL), but his last mini curve done at home put him lowest at 17.9 mmoles/L (x 18 = 322.2 mg/dL) which the vet told me leads her to believe he has Acromegaly. She said there isn't any testing available to diagnose him here for this? I've been the AcroCat message board, but I'm still so new at this whole diabetes thing that I thought I'd start here.

I have also noticed recently that he has begun to walk funny, on his back honches rather than his paws. To visualize, if you think of his back legs as your arm he is more on the "forearm" rather than the "hand". I asked the vet about this and she said this could be due to his diabetes, low potassium, or kidney disease. Is this a common problem with diabetic cats?

He has been on 2 units twice a day for almost a week, so I plan to do another mini curve myself to see how its been working for him on my next day off of work.

I've read a lot on this forum about feeding Fancy feast pate? I am currently paying $100 for 24 days worth of food (2 flats of 24 cans at 2 cans per day...ack!) so I am curious about this...but I worry so about changing something before he is regulated.

I appreciate any info/input/comments :)

Thanks! dancing_cat
 
First, no guilt trips. None of us knew the symptoms of diabetes when we landed on this site. Many of us fed dry food and never thought about carbs.

We are not big fans of Canninsulin. It tends to be rather harsh in cats, with a fast onset that takes the cat low early in the cycle and a shorter cycle - usually lasting less than 12 hours. People have regulated and gotten their cats into remission but it is harder than the milder, longer lasting insulins which we do like (Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc). The only way to figure out if it will work for your cat is frequent testing.

Purina DM is not awful in terms of carb count, but it is expensive and no better than non prescription foods. And it is liver based so many cats tire of the taste.

I think it is early to think about Acro. Most often we look at that after a cat is needing more than 5 units a cycle. If he were mine, I would ask the vet for a different insulin and start monitoring at least three times a day - before each shot and halfway through the cycle. Then you can see how low the insulin takes him and how well it is working.
 
The walking on his hocks could be neuropathy. Getting him regulated and giving methylcobalamin may help resolve this.
 
Hi and welcome Brytny. I live just across the water from you and Joey. It's quite common in Canada for vets to prescribe Caninsulin first. We were on Caninsulin for two months, in spite of me continually asking my vet if it was the right insulin. Finally I saw a locum vet, and he got me on Lantus. Caninsulin wasn't lasting long enough and was quite harsh. It's really designed for dogs. Talk to your vet to see if they are interested in getting you on Lantus. If not, you actually don't need a prescription in B.C. and can just go to your local pharmacy and get it. I still go to the same vet about everything else for Neko, but I manage her diabetes with the help on FDMB. And good for you testing, that'll tell you now the insulin is working and save you $$ on curves at the vet. I paid $140 for a curve day, and they only did 4 tests. You can buy a lot of test strips for that money!

Also, can you tell me where on the Island you live? We have one or two other members over there and they might have suggestions for vets that know Lantus, if you are interested in switching to someone supporting you with that insulin.

Next topic is acromegaly. My Neko does have it but we were up at 5 units of Caninsulin before we switched to Lantus. On Lantus, they recommend testing for acromegaly or other high dose conditions when you get to 6 units, or approximately one times the cats body weight in kilograms. Neko is approximately 6 kg. There is testing available for acromegaly - the blood has to be send to Michigan State University. That is the only place in North America that does the testing. Should your cat get near that doseage, contact me and I can get you the specifics for how to get the blood tested from here.

On your cat walking funny, he probably has neuropathy, a condition diabetic cats can get. You can get Zobaline to help with that. Do some searching on this site and you'll find out more about it. I was lucky in that Neko didn't have that so can't say too much about it. Here's another site that talks about neuropathy.

And lastly, the food topic. You are right that off the shelf food is better and cheaper. I feed Neko raw food but a lot of people feed canned Wellness, Friskies pates or Fancy Feast pates. There is a cat food carbs chart that lists carbs for most foods we can get. Look for something under 10% carbs. A lot of people feed something in the 4-5% range.
 
Thanks for the replies!

We live in Nanaimo, and I will definitely talk to the vet about Lantus (and the other 2 Sue & Oliver mentioned, see what her response is like).

I'm glad to hear that I shouldn't get too upset about him having acromegaly just yet - I was quite sad :( I will for sure keep you in mind if he needs to be tested.

I will also ask the vet about Zobaline...when I told her about his walking funny she didn't say anything about doing anything about it, just to keep an eye on him because it could get worse, and if it does she will prescribe pain meds. hmmm.

And for food - thank you Wendy&Neko! I am for sure going to look into this list! I have a friend who has two cats on raw food and she swears by it...how does your cat like it? My sister also tried it for her Bengal but he didn't like it as much as a canned food. I have three cats total (Two older without diabetes, and Joe) so I'm not sure how they'd take to raw but maybe its worth a try.

Brytny
 
Good luck with the vet. PZI is harder to get, but Levemir you can also get over the counter. I believes it's more recently that it's been used for cats. One other thing, in Canada, Lantus is often referred to as Glargine.

Both my cats like their raw food. Before diagnosis, they were getting half Wellness and half dry. I switched first to all wet, then to raw. Neko's switched almost instantly, but one of the more common symptoms of an acromegalic cat is REALLY hungry. Diabetics cats can be hungry, but acros take it to another level because the excess growth hormone means they are like teenagers. She was stealing banana bread, muffins, etc. The raw food they get is from Red Dog Blue Kat Deli. I have a friend who works there and I got copies of all the nutritional analysis. They aren't on the Catinfo list, but I've done the calculations and they are all 5% or less. There is lots of info about raw on their site, including tips on transitioning. They suggest starting with chicken, but both my cats LOVE kangaroo. Ask at the pet food stores if you can get raw samples for cats, that's how I tried it first. I rotate a mix of 4 proteins.

Just remember, if you are switching foods, you'll have to do more frequent blood testing. The DM wet isn't bad but there might be some changes due to changes in carbs.
 
Note: Zobaline (a brand of methylcobalamin) takes weeks if not months, plus stable, appropriate diabetes management to have a effect. It's a process of gradual recovery.
 
Welcome to the board!

You can get 5 pens of lantus at Costco Canada for $99. Lasts you up to six months. No prescription required. its so much a better insulin than caninsulin - definately ask the vet about it.

I use fancy feast pates - I shop around Pet valu, pet smart and so on and rarely pay more than 68c a can. Walmart.ca sometimes have good deals and free shipping too.

If you are home testing can you set up a spreadsheet so we can take a look at the results? heres how:http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Also the one touch ultra - I am not sure how much you are paying in strips but if you get them in shoppers you can get points to offset the cost. Instead though I use a bayer contour USB because I buy the strips on ebay for under $40 for 100. You can get a free bayer contour USB meter and 25 strips if you go to http://www.bayerdiabetes.ca/BDoffer and use code "BDS 11-14" And then if you register the meter you get a free USB wall charger.

Wendy
 
Hi Brytny and Joey,

You said you were worried about changing his diet until he was regulated.

For my cat Wink Wink, changing his food was what helped immensely to get him regulated. You must be home testing before you do this food switch. Too much insulin in combination with lower carb food could result in hypoglycemia. Spent several long nights and days up with my cat treating the hypos. That was before I knew much and discovered this board.

Also, Wink Wink was walking completely on his hocks and could only walk 4 or 5 steps before he had to sit down and rest. Now he is walking mostly on his tiptoes and running and jumping everywhere! This stage of going from having difficulty walking to action cat extraordinaire took about 4 weeks. It took me that long to transition him from dry food to exclusively wet food and get him regulated. This was after being
unregulated in an animal shelter eating junk food (dry) for about 3 months.

I'm also giving my cat methylcobalamin to help with the neuropathy. There is still some room for improvement in his walking abilities and can tell when he is getting tired and starts to walk down on his hocks more.

He is currently trying to figure out how to jump to the top of one of my 6 foot tall bookcases!
 
Welcome to FDMB, Brytny,

Being Canadian, you don't have to talk to your vet about which insulin; you can go to Shoppers or some other pharmacy and buy a 5pack of Levemir or Lantus cartridges, some U100 syringes with 1/2 unit markings and you are set. You can tell your vet that Caninsulin does not last the full 12hrs and is quite harsh.... it's more of a medium lasting insulin that's OK for dogs, but not that great for cats who have faster metabolisms.

You can switch the food right away; why not because you may not need to give any insulin at all. It's worth a try because you don't want to be going through the expense of getting a decent insulin and syringes if your cat doesn't even need to be on insulin at all.

As has been likely said already, diet's pretty important, so you may want to tell your vet about Dr. Lisa Pierson's site catinfo.org. Have your vet pull up the site, and also check out the food list. ... stick to under 10% carbs and you will see a healthier cat with lower numbers.

Also, let your vet know about Lantus and Levemir as they are much better for cats, lasting the entire 12hrs. If your vet wants some documentation, there's plenty around here that you can access and give to your vet.

Hold off changing the insulin until you know whether you need insulin or not.
Work on the diet first and give it a good long week or more after you stop feeding the dry food to decide.

You're already home testing so that's about it; you will know how the numbers are affected by the food change and if you need to, just drop back to 1u of the caninsulin twice a day.

Good luck and I hope you find that Joey doesn't need any insulin shots because he's able to create enough of his own.
 
Hi & thanks so much for the welcome!

Joey is currently eating Purina DM pate canned (strictly wet food, no dry!), according to Dr. Lisa's list it is 3% carbs so it technically should be helping him regulate, right? He's been on this food since he was diagnosed in December (he is not a picky eater at all so I was luckily able to switch him right away with no fuss). I add a bunch of water (probably about a whole can full) to his food each time because I notice that he is still peeing an awful lot of urine and his skin is still showing signs of dehydration. Some of you had mentioned to get him off of dry food so I just want to make sure everyone knows he is only eating the 3% carb wet food :-D

Tomorrow is my day off so I plan on doing another curve on him now that he's been on two units twice a day since the end of Feb, and I will figure out the chart and post it when I have the results :)

I am glad to say that he isn't walking on his honches as badly as he had been, so hopefully that keeps up.

Deb - I am glad I don't have a jumper like Wink Wink! But Joe is definitely a trouble maker, haha!

Thanks all!
 
OK maybe a dumb question - I am trying to put past data from BG tests into a spreadsheet, the "world" version for mmol/L readings, and it looks like when you click on a cell to input a reading that there is a formula to change from mmol/L to mg/dL (=round('World mmol/L'!B4*18,0)) but when I put in a number like 23.0 or 17.5 it just replaces the formula looking stuff with the 23. Do I have to put the number in the formula somewhere, or is it easier to just multiply my numbers by 18 and input them like that?

haha - oh geeze :?
 
Brytny&Joey said:
Hi & thanks so much for the welcome!

Joey is currently eating Purina DM pate canned (strictly wet food, no dry!), according to Dr. Lisa's list it is 3% carbs so it technically should be helping him regulate, right? I add a bunch of water (probably about a whole can full) to his food each time because I notice that he is still peeing an awful lot of urine and his skin is still showing signs of dehydration.
Click to expand...
Hi Brytny & Welcome to our family! There are many foods which are 3%--personally, I feed my cats Friskies, Fancy Feast and Special Kitty--way cheaper than DM. A lot of us here (well, most) feed our cats what we consider LC (low carb); as for me and my house, I consider and feed the foods on Dr. Lisa's list that are under 10%. I'm glad to read you're adding water to Joey's food; that is a great idea! Hang in there; he will get better and you have a huge support group here.
 
The formula is already built into the spreadsheet. You add the 23 to the cell. Then we go to the bottom of the page and choose US version and we see the 23 as 414. There are two separate spreadsheets - one in metric and one in US.

There are no dumb questions. Only the ones you don't ask..... Everyone has trouble with this stuff at first.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
The formula is already built into the spreadsheet. You add the 23 to the cell. Then we go to the bottom of the page and choose US version and we see the 23 as 414. There are two separate spreadsheets - one in metric and one in US.

There are no dumb questions. Only the ones you don't ask..... Everyone has trouble with this stuff at first.
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Thanks so much - all figured out!! I have now posted Joe's Spreadsheet in my signature. I am doing a curve today so today's date is incomplete. I also need to email the vet for her results of the curve I paid them to do in the beginning and will add those too.
I am also starting to test him everyday - today he was really resistant, especially at 10am (breakfast + insulin time), so I hope him and I can work out a routine!

As you can see on the spreadsheet: he has gone down to 7.9 at +4. How low is too low, that I should be worried about Hypo? Is there a standard number? I printed off some info about Hypo that hangs in my kitchen (just in case & for if he needs to be cat-sat!) and I have that 3.0 is signs of Mild Hypo, is that about right?

Thanks!
 
Brytny&Joey said:
As you can see on the spreadsheet: he has gone down to 7.9 at +4. How low is too low, that I should be worried about Hypo? Is there a standard number? I printed off some info about Hypo that hangs in my kitchen (just in case & for if he needs to be cat-sat!) and I have that 3.0 is signs of Mild Hypo, is that about right?
Click to expand...
149 is not hypo; it is actually a safe number and on the high end of a normal BG level for a cat (according to the lab my vet uses, normal range is 60-170). While there is no "standard" number for a hypo, I begin to worry when my cat goes below 60. It is great that you printed off the hypo information; do you have a hypo kit? Did you print out the hypo information that is on this website -- http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887 I'm sorry I don't know the conversions; I'm going to go look for that link so that I know the BG conversions :-D
 
40 (2.3) is our mark. Under 40 you start monitoring every 20 minutes. First giving regular low carb wet, then higher carb wet and finally syrup, if he continues to drop.

The numbers look better than the past few cycles. The thing to determine with Canninsulin is how it lasts. If it is gone before 12 hours, then it is complicated to work with.
 
Just keep an eye on him--keep testing him and keep your subject line updated. I'm sure there will be others chiming in soon and I will be here all evening, and will keep checking back on your post. When is the last time he ate? What did he eat?
 
149 is not hypo; it is actually a safe number and on the high end of a normal BG level for a cat (according to the lab my vet uses, normal range is 60-170). While there is no "standard" number for a hypo, I begin to worry when my cat goes below 60.
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OK good to know! I am curious for the 4pm (+6) check, if caninsulin doesn't last 12 hours then it should start going back up by then. So we shall see!
 
Hey all, Joey is doing well. I've updated his spreadsheet with his recent BG tests, and I find them a little odd. Unfortunately we haven't been as diligent in testing him as we should have been so there's a jump in dates. He is still on the Caninsulin, which we are almost out of, and at 2 units twice a day.

I tested him before his supper last night at approx 9pm (+11.5) and BG was at 11.5, so I decided not to give him any insulin. I tested again when I got home later that evening and he was at 21.9 at 1:30am (+15.5) so we decided to give him half a unit. Tested again this am before foods and he was at 9.1. He required coercion to eat his breakfast this morning, took him about half an hour to eat a can of Purina DM which he usually eats in about 10-15 mins. He didn't get any insulin this morning. I know that the food this morning will bring his BG levels up, and I tested at 11am (+1) and he was at 10.4, and tested again at 4p (+6) and he was at 20.2.

What I mean to say is that it seems weird because its like a reverse curve, where he is low in am and high at +6. We are going to test again before supper and see where he's at. His attitude hasn't changed at all, he is chasing the other two around the house as I type this, haha. He is, however, starting to hate getting his BG checked so I've had to lure him with freeze dried chicken treats which he looooves.
 
ok cool

Many cats get sick of the Purina DM wet after a while. I think its too much liver flavour. Maybe time to change to another low carb wet like Fancy feast classic pates, friskies pates or Wellness grain free varieties.

Thats good you are almost out of insulin. Time to switch to a better one like Lantus! You can get it any pharmacy and no prescription is needed. Get the lantus solostar pens, 5 (15ml or 150 units) for $99 at Costco or for more at Shoppers but you get points! It should last you six months. We can advise on dose!

Keep the chicken treats specially for testing and he will start to look forward to testing!

Wendy
 
I was thinking that as well, that perhaps he is getting tired of this food. He's been on it since he was diagnosed in Dec, must be boring to eat the same thing over and over. Tomorrow is shopping day,so I will be making a list from that "Dr. Lisa's Food list" and checking out Petsmart to see what my choices are. I looked at Walmart last time I was there and the Fancy Feast Pate cans I found were tiny 85g tins. But they didn't say "classics" on them, only "Fancy Feast Chicken Feast Pate"...I am assuming those are the wrong kind? I took a picture of them to compare for when I go to Petsmart that I could post. Although if I were to buy that size of tin I'd have to buy a ton of them!!

And yes I am going to switch him to Lantus when he is out of his Caninsulin. Is it safe to just switch him over cold turkey? I will mosey over to the lantus part of the forum and take a read...Is there anything I should do before I switch him??
 
Re: My Cat Joey

So last night we tested at 10p (PMPS) and BG was 25.7 mmol/L, and gave him 2 units of insulin with his supper. The tested again at 12a (+2) and he was at 16.7 mmol/L.

Tested this morning at 10a (AMPS) and he was at 5.9 mmol/L...does this just mean that his insulin is lasting longer than it used to? Should we be lowering his dose back down to 1 unit?

I am going to email his numbers to the vet and see what she says, but wanted to ask for an opinion here as well :)
 
In Canada the fancy feasts are labelled differently - you should be fine as long as they say "pate" on the label. They wont say "classic" - thats a US thing. And you are right you do buy a ton - I feed 2-3 a day to each of my boys but you can get them for as low as 56c a can depending who has a sale on etc. Or you can go with friskies cos the cans are bigger.

let me ask a member with more dosing experience to comment on the dosing and switch to lantus. But you really want to find a dose that you can give twice a day.

Wendy
 
Wendy asked that we stop by.

You can make a direct switch from Caninsulin to Lantus You might want to reduce the dose slightly (by 30%) since some cats have a marked response to a change in insulin. Chances are, though, that you'l need to increase back up but for the purpose of starting, a small reduction may make sense.

I believe that Caninsulin is a U40 insulin. Lantus is a U100 insulin. This means that Lantus is much more concentrated than the insulin you are currently using. You will need U100 syringes that are marked in half unit increments. You want syringes that are correctly calibrated for the concentration of the insulin you are using.

There are also several other differences when it comes to using Lantus. You may want to review the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board so you can begin to familiarize yourself with the differences. The sticky notes (and links to them) are as follows:
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal version -- the “Tilly” Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany, which was also published by Kirsten Roomp & Jacqui Rand, DVM in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Lantus & Levemir: Shooting & Handling Low Numbers: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation as well as information if you have a low pre-shot number or a drop into low numbers during the cycle.
 
You can get syringes with 1/2 unit increments at walmart, shoppers etc - its the BD Ultrafine 3/10cc ones. I prefer the "short" needles. Purple and white box - got a yellow "short/court" mark on it if you want those.

Sienne should she wait a day or so for the caninsulin to get out her system or can she start lantus etc immediately?

Wendy
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Sienne should she wait a day or so for the caninsulin to get out her system or can she start lantus etc immediately?

Wendy
Click to expand...

Do we know if I should stop insulin for a day before switching to Lantus? He is pretty much almost out of the Caninsulin so I've gotta pick up some more, so I may as well switch now. If I switch him, should it be on a day where I can be home all day to watch him??

His readings have been weird lately. Super high, but he had gotten into some pita bread yesterday, could that be lingering into today??
My vet office called and told my boyfriend that if I want her to look at any more BG readings I have to pay $60-something. I'm not very impressed with her right now (I wish I were home to take that call!). I had asked her about switching to Lantus and she said she didn't like it for cats "because it didn't do what it was supposed to", but I think I'd like to switch him anyway based on what I've read here.

Thanks :)
 
Bad kitty! You better keep an eye on your bread products! High carb foods can impact them for over 24hours so that could be the case.

With these high numbers I really hope you are testing for ketones.. You don't want Joey getting DKa, it's very serious and expensive to treat.

I don't like the sound of your vet. Switch to lantus and come to the tight regulation forum and we will look at your sheets for free :)

I will send sienne a message and ask her to come over and comment on the switching . Sooner the better to switch to lantus I think since it might take a few days to settle in. Also you will need new syringes remember.

Wendy
 
Thanks Wendy! And yes all breads have been cupboardized from now on! Bad Joey.
I have purchased some Ketostix but I missed his last pee. Now that he's eaten supper he should have to go again soon so hopefully I can get a ladle under him to catch it.
And yes I haven't forgotten to switch syringes as well :)
Thanks for your help! I'll wait for a response from Sienne about the swap over & any wait time.
 
Hi Brytny, my Neko was on Caninsulin for 2 months before we switched to Lantus. I gave one last shot of Caninsulin at night, and started Lantus the next day. Caninsulin is a short acting insulin, in and out of the system. You can actually get the Lantus in cartridges here, that's the refill bit that goes in the Lantus pens. I think it's a bit cheaper than pens. I get mine at the pharmacy at Save-On-Foods. You could also ask at London Drugs, they are usually pretty price competitive for diabetes supplies. You and Joey will like the BD Ultrafine needles, they are smaller than the ones for Caninsulin.
 
There should not be a problem making a direct switch to Lantus. You can calculate a starting dose of Lantus using the following formula:
initial dose = 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms​
This usually winds up in a starting dose that's in the neighborhood of 1.0u unless your cat is really big or really small. Given that you're switching insulin, we try to take the current dose into consideration, as well.

I have no clue what your vet was referencing when she said, "...it doesn't do what it's supposed to do." There are currently two types of insulin that are recommended by the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) -- Lantus and Prozinc. This is a link to their guidelines for treating diabetes. The document can be downloaded as a PDF which you could discuss with your vet.

I tend to think it's easier for the caregiver to be home when you switch insulin (or start insulin, for that matter).
 
Update! We have now switched to Lantus. I have been reading the links below from Sienne all morning (from the Lantus side of the forum), so I'm hoping this goes well :smile: He got his first unit this morning. I'm not sure if I like the short syringes, they are so tiny compared to the ones I was using for the Caninsulin. I'm hoping he didn't get a fur shot this am!

I still haven't caught a urine sample from him yet to test for Ketones...working on it.
 
Great news!

If you dont like the short syringes, BD does do the same syringes with a regular length needle. I prefer the short as I dont need to worry about the needle going all the way through the other side ;) but its personal preference.

Now that you are on Lantus do you want to come over to the tight regulation board? Its a great community and if you post regularly the members there keep an eye on you and can help advise on dose. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

Wendy
Edited to add- hes on low carb foods now right?
 
Hi Wendy,
Yes, you betcha he's on low carb wet food. Has been since diagnosed. I've posted in the "Relaxed Lantus" forum, since we aren't doing tight regulation at the moment until work schedules are sorted out. Thanks so much for the help so far!! :smile:

p.s. would you mind checking out my post there? : viewtopic.php?f=32&t=92399 but no rush, not an emergency or anything
 
Yep we tested, just haven't had time to update his spreadsheet. I've changed locations at work so I no longer have as much work-time to devote to my cat! Haha. Numbers are in now :smile:
 
Very interesting numbers! Are you posting on relaxed or tight regulation forums? You might want to move to tight to have those experinced members take a look, but I think I might be seeing some bouncing going on after his 5.9 on the second April. I mean you caught the 5.9 but he easily could have dropped even lower than that. And even if he didnt, that's the lowest he has been in a while and so a bounce is to be expected. (Bounce explanation below).

Now I wonder how he did today, as soon as you see the numbers drop you might want to start testing every few hours to see how low he actually goes before he bounces up again. You may be suprised, he could even hit green.

Bounces - what are they and is my cat doing them?
When a cat is first diagnosed, the blood glucose has probably been high for a while. As the insulin starts to take effect and numbers start to come down, the liver has to learn to adjust to the lower numbers. We call this "liver training school". But before it relearns that low numbers are ok, when the BG drops to a number lower than the liver is accustomed, or if BGs drop low, or if the BG drops suddenly, the liver”panics” and reacts by releasing counterregulatory hormones and glucagon. This drives the BG back up. This is what we call a "bounce". Bounces can take up to 72 hours to clear so we are generally careful about increasing doses during the bounce. Once the bounce clears, then you can see the "real" numbers and determine if the dose needs to go up or down.
 
I had posted in the relaxed forum, mostly because I am unable to test as many times as the tight regulation requires right now. I just tested him and he's at 3.6! Will keep an eye on him and retest in an hour...

Tomorrow I will have my boyfriend test him every two hours til he has to be at work at 5(pst) to see how he is doing, and I can resume testing when I get home at about 6:30.
 
3.6 wow. Great! wonder how low he dropped today. also looks like you might be getting a low PMPS. Let us know!

Btw you can post on tight even if you aren't following the tight protocol.. It's just there are a lot of eyes there. And I think you are getting plenty of tests in, that you should be fine.
 
Also you might not need to get that many tests tomorrow. He may bounce off this green.dpeending on how high he is, every three hours or less might work.
 
okay, good to know. I'll probably post on the tight forum next time! But while I'm thinking about it, if he is still low in about 2 hours at PMPS should I give him his regular one unit? Or because I'm still short on inbetween data skip this shot?
 
Take his food away now. Then see where he is in two hours. If he is under 12, then head over to tight regulation and ask the question in your subject line ie "newbie shoot under 200?". Then wait 30 minutes, dont feed, dont shoot and test again, If he is still rising you are probably ok to shoot but I would want an experienced member to keep an eye on you just in case which is why I am asking you head to that board.

Its better to shoot if you can since you lose momentum when you skip, but at the same time its best to have a member sit up with you when you are shooting low the first time. They will probably ask for a test at PMPS +2 just to see if he is still rising or not after the insulin kicks in. Over time, as he gets more into normal numbers, you will get experience and knowledge on how to handle this since you will be shooting more often at those numbers to try and keep him at normal cat levels (50-120).

Its 11.30pm and I am heading to bed now... I will be up again in a few hours (sick rabbit) so I might pop in to see how you are getting on.
Wendy
 
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