New Member! Meet Danny!

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Holly and Danny

Holly and Danny

Member Since 2022
Hi everyone! My name is Holly and my 13 year old tabby cat named Danny was diagnosed August 26, 2022. I've just recently discovered this site and I can't express how grateful I am for it. :)

A little bit about Danny's story... so I started to notice he was drinking a lot of water and peeing a lot sometime last year. He was always hungry and begging for more food. He would get very territorial of his food and would attack my other cat Delilah if she was still eating from her own bowl when his was already empty.
​
It got really bad... because he was always hungry, he would never sleep through the night which means that for an entire year I also did not have a full night's sleep. It was a living nightmare. There's no way to put into words the stress we all went through.

I took him to three different vets, they all did full blood panels, but somehow no one caught that it was diabetes. Meanwhile his symptoms got worse and he started losing weight at an alarming rate. Eventually the neuropathy kicked in and he started walking on his hocks and that's what prompted a google search which lead me to this website and to realizing that my cat had diabetes. So I took him to an animal hospital a little over a week ago, told the vet of my suspicions, and sure enough he's a sugar cat!

He's been on Novalin (2u twice/day) and he's improved so much already. He's been sleeping through the night again!!! I switched both cats cold turkey over to an all LC wet food diet and they love it. My only issue right now is getting Danny's weight back up. He's currently 8.8 lbs. They are both used to free-eating and because of that Danny wants to eat all day long. I don't want his BG going haywire from eating too much, but I also want him to gain some weight. I'm hoping once his BG gets regulated that he won't be so hungry all the time because I'm trying to get them both on scheduled feeding times. I've been giving him two Sheba pate perfect portions at 7am (PS) and two at 7pm (PS), with a Sheba meat stick in the midafternoon. But he cries a lot about 3-4 hours after meals. If anyone has any recommendations for my little guy I'd greatly appreciate it. Sorry if this post is too long, I'm still trying to learn "the ways" around here. Link to his SS below! Thank you all!
 
Welcome. Novolin-N is not really a good insulin for cats. It does not last 12 hour and you get BG like you are seeing. In actuality, 2 units may be too much and is causing the BG to go to low and both counteracts by the liver dumping glycogen into the bloodstream to prevent going too low. I wouopd fiorst reducr dose to 1 unit and then get your vet to switch to a better insulin like generic/biosimilar glargine (Lantus is brand name but is very expensive). With coupon the generic is reasonable
https://www.goodrx.com/semglee?dosa...ulin glargine&quantity=1&sort_type=popularity
 
Welcome and I’m so glad you found us!

I can’t believe none of the vets ran a fructosamine test on him. I’m so sorry they failed you both. Good news is that neuropathy is reversible once his diabetes is regulated. My Minnie improved close to 100% after she was regulated and with the help of generic zobaline.

The reason he’s always hungry and lost so much weight is because diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in their food. So they eat but still lose weight and there’s sugar in their urine so they also burn calories just by peeing. The good rule of thumb on daily calorie intake is 20 times his ideal weight. So if it’s 10 pounds, for example, he should be getting 200 calories. Then you add a bit more since he needs to gain weight. He can eat smaller meals throughout the day. It’s also easier on his pancreas. I used to give Minnie the bulk of her food around shot time then some low carb treats throughout the day, like freeze dried chicken, regular grilled chicken or FF chicken filets and even some baby food. I would let him eat as much as he wants right now until his weight is back up to normal. Diabetic cats need to eat well so they don’t risk developing ketones.

I agree with Larry. The initial recommended dose is always 1 unit and Lantus is a gentler longer lasting insulin that has the best results for remission and regulation on cats. If you’re located in the US, there are a ton of coupons to help offset the cost and most of us actually order our Lantus from Canada where it’s 1/3 of the cost!
 
Poor Danny! You'd think vets would test for diabetes first with those symptoms. My Truffles ended up going without insulin longer than she should of as her symptoms started small and then we didn't take her until she was showing more, so had neuropathy and not feeling great by the time we called and had to wait for an appt. She was on Lantus for almost 3 months but has gotten almost back to normal in three months, gained back most of her weight, now she is over 10 pounds and started walking normal after 1 1/2 months! she can now jump and use her scratch post! I now only need to test her and do a glucose curve twice a month(for now) for the vet.:)Hope you can get Danny back to his old self soon!:)
 
Glad you found your way here
We feed our cats multiply times during each 12 hour cycle
Bigger meal first thing in the AM and PM and at least 2 other small meals after the AM meal and PM meal like at +2 ( 2 hours after giving insulin and at +4
If you can set up what we call our signature that would be helpful
Information about Quito

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.



We also use a spreadsheet to track our cat's BG numbers to see how the insulin is working and how low it's dropping and in case you need any advice , if you are interested in setting one up just ask , we have a member who will be happy to do it for you


The spreadsheet is easier than it looks
Just some info about it look at mine at the end of my signature it says Tyler's spreadsheet to get a look at it, you can look at anyone's spreadsheet

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers


If you want to try and set it up here the link, if you need help just ask we have a member who will be glad to set it up for you
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
this post on helping us to help you. The post is considerably more concise and has everything in one place making it a bit easier if you need to bookmark the information.
 
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I agree Novolin is not a good insulin for cats.
Generic lantus don't know where you live but Lantus is expensive in the US , generic Lantus is fine, many members use the generic
Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year
Its generic lantus

Or this one
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1

Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens

You will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings for lantus , just insert the syringe into the pen and draw out the insulin.
13.47 for a box of 100 Here is the link to buy them from
If they say you need a script from you vet they will call the vet to fax it over 'ask for refills and give your vets office a heads up . I know that some member didn't need a script at all ,I did I live in N.J. So I guess it depends on where you live

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct



We use the pens just like a vial , just stick the syringe in the gray rubber stopper and draw out your insulin
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!
syringe-in-pen-pic-jpg.45006


Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

The reason we don't use the needles that would go in the pens is because you can only dial the pens by whole units
With the U-100 syringes with half unit markings we can adjust by 0.25 units at a time

You can even order Basaglar genetic Lantus from Marks Marine in Canada call them and ask the price for 5 pens, they are very nice to deal with.
https://canshipmeds.com/search-3/?drugName=basaglar
 
Copied this from another member here about Novolin
Yes, you always test immediately before feeding/shooting and you don't want him eating for the 2 hours before those "pre-shot" tests so you get a number that's not influenced by food. WITH NOVOLIN THEN YOU FEED WAIT 60 MINUTES AND THEN YOU SHOOT You want to make sure he eats a good amount and it stays down since when Novolin "hits" it hits hard and fast so there needs to be food on board. (when you switch to Lantus,mor generic lantus you can Test/Feed/Shoot all in about 5-10 minutes.)

You should test again about 2 hours after the shot (and if possible, at various other points in the cycle to get an idea of how he does). This is why it's important to get a spreadsheet going too so we can see what's going on
 
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Welcome to FDMB!

There are a couple of posts that I think will be helpful. They consolidate information vs having it spread out within your thread.
  • Helping us to help you: This is what amounts to in introductory post. It has information about how to set up your signature, how to set up a spreadsheet and what the headings mean, what to do if your cat is in low numbers, and much more.
  • Beginner's Guide to Novolin: This sticky note will given you information on how to best use Novolin. Insulin varies with regard to when it starts working (onset) and when it is at its most active (nadir) and whether you need to have food on board prior to giving an injection.
As others noted, Novolin is a usable insulin for cats -- it's just not the most effective insulin for cats. It's far better with dogs given that cats have a much faster metabolism. As a result, the insulin wears off before the end of a 12-hour cycle. The American Animal Hospital Assn periodically reviews insulin and publishes guidelines on diabetes management for both cats and dogs. Their most recent guideline recommends the use of either Lantus (i.e., glargine) or Prozinc.

As far as weight, you may want to look for a low carbohydrate (i.e., under 10% carb) food that is higher in calories. This is a chart that contains lots of options and has information on both carbs and calories.
 
Holly and Danny said:
Hi everyone! My name is Holly and my 13 year old tabby cat named Danny was diagnosed August 26, 2022. I've just recently discovered this site and I can't express how grateful I am for it. :)

A little bit about Danny's story... so I started to notice he was drinking a lot of water and peeing a lot sometime last year. He was always hungry and begging for more food. He would get very territorial of his food and would attack my other cat Delilah if she was still eating from her own bowl when his was already empty.
​
It got really bad... because he was always hungry, he would never sleep through the night which means that for an entire year I also did not have a full night's sleep. It was a living nightmare. There's no way to put into words the stress we all went through.

I took him to three different vets, they all did full blood panels, but somehow no one caught that it was diabetes. Meanwhile his symptoms got worse and he started losing weight at an alarming rate. Eventually the neuropathy kicked in and he started walking on his hocks and that's what prompted a google search which lead me to this website and to realizing that my cat had diabetes. So I took him to an animal hospital a little over a week ago, told the vet of my suspicions, and sure enough he's a sugar cat!

He's been on Novalin (2u twice/day) and he's improved so much already. He's been sleeping through the night again!!! I switched both cats cold turkey over to an all LC wet food diet and they love it. My only issue right now is getting Danny's weight back up. He's currently 8.8 lbs. They are both used to free-eating and because of that Danny wants to eat all day long. I don't want his BG going haywire from eating too much, but I also want him to gain some weight. I'm hoping once his BG gets regulated that he won't be so hungry all the time because I'm trying to get them both on scheduled feeding times. I've been giving him two Sheba pate perfect portions at 7am (PS) and two at 7pm (PS), with a Sheba meat stick in the midafternoon. But he cries a lot about 3-4 hours after meals. If anyone has any recommendations for my little guy I'd greatly appreciate it. Sorry if this post is too long, I'm still trying to learn "the ways" around here. Link to his SS below! Thank you all!
Click to expand...

You can also feed him more. Many members here feed their cats 4 or 5 mini meals a day! So you could think of doing that too. :) Sounds like he needs more food.
 
Wow! Thank you all SO MUCH for all your comments and suggestions! Seems like the consensus in the room is that Lantus is the way to go, so my boyfriend picked some up this morning. Just to clarify, he was on 1u of Novolin for the first week after diagnosis but his BG was REALLY high (in the 500 & 600s+) so that's when the vet suggested bumping it up to 2u. I think I screwed up his PM shot last night (furshot maybe) because at PM+3 he was at 390 and then 425 at PM+5. I panicked and gave him a .5u dose and then realized I shouldn't have done that. Ugh, still learning here guys. I skipped the AM shot since I panic-dosed him at midnight last night and decided maybe it would be best to just start fresh with 1u of the Lantus tonight at his regular PM time.

A few of you mentioned me setting up my signature and SS. I set up both of those before posting, I'm not sure if perhaps it's not showing on your end but it's showing on mine...

I'm going to try feeding him smaller meals every 3 hours and see how he does.

Multiple people mentioned waiting an hour after eating to give the shot with Novolin. Should we do that same practice with Lantus?
 
Happy you were able to get Lantus so quickly, good for you! And it’s good you’re starting at 1 unit, that’s always best when switching insulin till you see how he does.

You don’t need to wait an hour with Lantus. It’s a gentler insulin so it works gradually. It takes about 2 hours from the shot time to start working so you’re totally fine testing, feeding and shooting back to back. I used to do all of that within 15 minutes or so. It’s only important to keep the shot at as close to the 12 hour mark as possible. And you want to make sure he doesn’t eat for at least 2 hours before the preshot tests so you’re getting the true bg number not influenced by food
 
Holly and Danny said:
o that's when the vet suggested bumping it up to 2u.
Click to expand...
When at low doses like 1 unit it is better to increase slowly like by ¼ unit increments, not by whole unit. You can purchase insulin syringes with ½-unit increments and it is easy to eyeball a ¼ unit.
Most of use purchase pens and use the pens a a little syringe vice using pen needles since the pens only dose in 1-unit increments.
 
Holly and Danny said:
I'm using the 3/10mL U-100 syringes. That's what the vet recommended.
Click to expand...
Do they have half unit markings? It's easier to use these when having to give 0.25 units such as Example Only 1.25 units
We adjust the units by 0.25 units
If you are using Lantus can you go back to your signature and put Lantus and the date you started so members know just tap on your name then tap on signature and add it

Also can you also note this on your SS where you have insulin Novolin N and put/ Lantus and date started, if you can draw a blank line above the date started and just put started Lantus
If you don't have the U-100 syringes with half unit markings you can get these
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct

adw-coupon-dia10.jpg

10% off your next order


You can read about Lantus here, read all the yellow stickys
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

It's important to get at least another test in after your PMPS test cats usually drop lower at night
It will take 5-7 days for the depot to build for Lantus
Try and get a +3 and +6 tests during the day , if you work try and get one in at +2 and when you get home
We like to test at different times of each day and night so you can see how the insulin is working and how low Danny is dropping.
We adjust the dose by how low he's dropping not by the prep shots.
If you work you can gets more tests in in the weekends.
Like filling in pieces of a puzzle

Part of that process is getting a feel for basic concepts:
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose
 
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Ale is right
You can get syringes with half unit markings at a Walmart. Their ReliOn Brand syringes of 0.3 cc (30 unit) capacity come with half unit markings. Cost $12.58 for a box of 100
This is what the packaging looks like: either box
They won't say it half unit on the box but the are . open then and look before you leave the store, can't be ordered on line , need to go into the store
:
upload_2021-9-5_23-18-9-jpeg.62508







30-unit-insulin-syringe-markings.jpg
 
Holly and Danny said:
Thank you so much @Diane Tyler's Mom and @Ale & Minnie (GA) for the info! The syringes we got do have the half unit marks. In terms of supplies I think we're all set. I'm about to take his AM+4 test, then I'll update his SS and my signature. Thanks again for all the info! :cat:
Click to expand...
Can you add to your signature also that you are using Lantus now and the date you can put Lantus 9-5 PMPS so members know @Holly and Danny
Also can you put a blank line above 9-5 and write Lantus 9-5 PMPS shot, if you don't know how to do it I can tag Bhooma for you to do itn
To add it to your signature
tap on your name then tap on signature and add it then hit save
If he's hungry you can feed him about a tablespoon of his FF Pate
@Holly and Danny
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Can you add to your signature also that you are using Lantus now and the date you can put Lantus 9-5 PMPS so members know @Holly and Danny
Also can you put a blank line above 9-5 and write Lantus 9-5 PMPS shot, if you don't know how to do it I can tag Bhooma for you to do itn
To add it to your signature
tap on your name then tap on signature and add it then hit save
If he's hungry you can feed him about a tablespoon of his FF Pate
@Holly and Danny
Click to expand...

I just updated the SS, hopefully I did it correctly. As for the signature, I have updated it. It currently says:

"Holly & Danny, DX 9/26/22, Novalin-N, Started Lantus 9/5/22, ReliOn Premier Classic, FF Classic Pate, SLGS" Not sure if you can see it on your end or not but it's there.
 
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