New Member: Maddie & Kai

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Maddie & Kai

Maddie & Kai

Member Since 2024
Hello All,
My name is Maddie and my cats name is Kai but we rarely call him that. We mostly call him MeeMow. Sometimes we address him as Lucifer because he looks and sometimes acts like the cat from Cinderella. We also referred to him as "The Gremlin" due to his mischievous nature and the strict rules of "don't get him wet" and "don't feed him after a certain time".
He is a bottle baby that we found and raised in 2012. Unfortunately, in 2020 he was diagnosed with diabetes and as of 2023 his diabetes has become difficult to regulate due to insulin resistance. We are in the process of figuring it out. I'm joining this forum in hopes that it will aid me in our journey.

Please note that I am working on gather data and numbers for his spreadsheet. Glucose curves and checking him before every injections is sort of new to me. My previous veterinarian, the one that diagnosed him, never fully explained that home monitoring was an option, in fact, she didn't even recommend it. Instead, she prescribed vetsulin, told us to administer it every 12 hours with food and to bring him back every few months for a fructosamine test. So for 2 years that is what we did and with every test we would increase his insulin dose because he would be regulated one month and then not regulated the next month. I feel like I am basically starting all over on how to manage and treat his diabetes.
 
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He is beautiful.

I have bottle baby rescues too, that I found.

You are in right place if you want to try and manage his diabetes better.

Look at you with your signature and spreadsheet already set up. Very nice.

Do you home test? We are very vocal about the importance of doing so. It not only keeps your cat safe, but it help manage the disease best.

I don't want to overwhelm you with information. Do you want me to give you some helpful links? Dosing methods we use?

Because you aren't new to this, I would rather you tell me if there is something specific you want to review or discuss. I'm no expert and new to this. I can certainly provide support and links to you.
 
Thank you! He is very aware of how handsome he is.

Sorry I should have added this in before I posted and I have gone back and added it to my original post.
I am working on gather data and numbers for his spreadsheet. Glucose curves and checking him before every injections is sort of new to me. My previous veterinarian, the one that diagnosed him, never fully explained that home monitoring was an option, in fact, she didn't even recommend it. Instead, she prescribed vetsulin, told us to administer it every 12 hours with food and to bring him back every few months for a fructosamine test. So for 2 years that is what we did and with every test we would increase his insulin dose because he would be regulated one month and then not regulated the next month. I feel like I am basically starting all over on how to manage and treat his diabetes. Therefore any and all information you would like to provide would be welcomed and very appreciated.
 
Actually, I have just come across a specific question while setting up his chart. What does "Dosing Method (SLGS or TR):". I'm sure there is a thread some where that will explain, I just haven't found it yet.
 
That is okay. You'll start with tons of information this go around.

You said she prescribed vetsulin, but in your signature you have ProZinc. Is ProZinc the insulin he is currently on? If so, I'll provide you with the link to the ProZinc forum so you can read the pinned post or sticky notes. Each will have important information.

I will provide you with the links for hometesting tips. You'll want to read them and watch the videos embedded. Almost all of us were new to hometesting before joining. Biggest tips for me was making sure the ear is warm enough and the positive reinforcement after each try, successful or not.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Most of us use human meters. That's what our data is based off of. Pet Meters haven't been around as long as this group. The handheld human meters aren't expensive and the strips and lancets are very reasonable. I can link some if you'd like. Pet meter strips cost over $1 each. I get 100 test strips for $17.99 for the human meter. There is also an option until you get comfortable testing. It is a human freestyle that is a continuous glucose monitor. They last 14 days. They are wonderful, but I do need to stress the importance of having a hand held and a libre. They are very convenient but often fail (Abbott will send you a replacement) and run somewhat inconsistent numbers sometimes. I had a few when my boy was first diagnosed ans I am very thankful that I did.

Because you don't have much data (his bgs) you would have to use our SLGS method. Both of the dosing methods are listed. You would start off with Start Low Go Slow. In order to do Tight Regualtions you need lots of data on him.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
 
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Almost all of us do our own curves because most cats get very stressed at the vets which in return shoots up their bgs. Those numbers are often inaccurate.

By hometesting and using the dosing method, you'll be able to see what his bg is doing throughout his cycle. When to increase or decrease per protocol of the method.

Hypo kit and hypo info. Print out. I am including this even though you aren't new to diabetes, in case you don't have one. You'll want to get one together.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Food.
Do you need a link to our food chart. It is all canned foods sold in the with the caloric analysis on a spreadsheet. There are only two low carb kibble. They are Young Again and Dr. Elsey’s. Please read review of Dr. Elsey's. It does cause some gi issues in cats, mine included if I give them more than a tablespoon per day.

Here is a link that is packed full of info
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/index-health-links-faqs.194624/

Maddie, let me know if you have other questions. I hate loading people up like that. You asked for it and I don't want to keep going if it will overwhelm you. I've attached the dosing method link in my 2 response to you.
 
Hi there, Maddie, and welcome to the forum. Since you are using Prozinc, I would recommend you get more familiar with that insulin and the dosing method there. Prozinc Dosing Methods

Is the Royal Canin food canned or dry?

Just a point of clarification, the link that was previously shared is applicable for those caregivers who are using Lantus, Levemir and Biosimilars.
Basic's Mom said:
Because you don't have much data (his bgs) you would have to use our SLGS method. Both of the dosing methods are listed. You would start off with Start Low Go Slow. In order to do Tight Regualtions you need lots of data on him.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
Click to expand...
 
Basic's Mom said:
Almost all of us do our own curves because most cats get very stressed at the vets which in return shoots up their bgs. Those numbers are often inaccurate.

By hometesting and using the dosing method, you'll be able to see what his bg is doing throughout his cycle. When to increase or decrease per protocol of the method.

Hypo kit and hypo info. Print out. I am including this even though you aren't new to diabetes, in case you don't have one. You'll want to get one together.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Food.
Do you need a link to our food chart. It is all canned foods sold in the with the caloric analysis on a spreadsheet. There are only two low carb kibble. They are Young Again and Dr. Elsey’s. Please read review of Dr. Elsey's. It does cause some gi issues in cats, mine included if I give them more than a tablespoon per day.

Here is a link that is packed full of info
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/index-health-links-faqs.194624/

Maddie, let me know if you have other questions. I hate loading people up like that. You asked for it and I don't want to keep going if it will overwhelm you. I've attached the dosing method link in my 2 response to you.
Click to expand...


This is perfect! Thank you so much, Basic's Mom!

Honestly, I might as well be a newbie to all of this. I should have done this a long time ago.

And yes, his new vet switched him to ProZinc in September and he has responded really well to it so far. However, we experienced a hypoglycemic incident last Monday and I was unable to get his glucose back up on my own. We can't figure out what caused it, it was very random.

He stayed in the ER for a little over a day. It took a lot of dextrose to get him back up. He is now back home, happy and his normal gremlin self. However his levels are sort of all over the place. You will see what I mean once I finish filling out the numbers for the past few days. Since then I have been watching him like a hawk while we try to return to our normal routine. Because of his irregular levels we have backed down on his dose from 3.5u to 2.25u. We are just going to take things very very slowly.
 
I'm going to tag others at this point. When a cat has a hypo event, they can become very sensitive to insulin. Because we aren't hometesting yet, you don't know how low he is going. When he's at the vet, he most likely isn't low. That doesn't mean at home he isn't getting low. Others may advice you to not be giving that amount blindly. I'm not sure. I don't give advice on dosing.

I also wanted to let you know, most vets will discourage hometesting. That doesn't mean you follow that advice. We don't blindly inject humans with insulin, so why would we blindly inject our cats. I've had to part ways with a vet because of this. I'm not telling you to do that, I'm just making you aware of the constant nagging and ridicule that may take place. Don't listen to it though.

@Marje and Gracie @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Suzanne & Darcy @Wendy&Neko

And don't be hard on yourself. You were simply following a medical professional that you trusted.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Hi there, Maddie, and welcome to the forum. Since you are using Prozinc, I would recommend you get more familiar with that insulin and the dosing method there. Prozinc Dosing Methods

Is the Royal Canin food canned or dry?

Just a point of clarification, the link that was previously shared is applicable for those caregivers who are using Lantus, Levemir and Biosimilars.
Click to expand...

Hi Christie!

In september when we switched to our new vet and our new everything she recommended switching him to an all wet food diet and explained how wet food was better for diabetic cats. I thought it would be the easiest switch ever, because what cat doesn't like just wet food? Apparently my cat. We discovered our boy is a picky eater and prefers the crunch of dry food, otherwise he will not eat at all. We struggled with this for several weeks before we caved and compromised with wet food mixed with a little bit of dry.
 
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Basic's Mom said:
I'm going to tag others at this point. When a cat has a hypo event, they can become very sensitive to insulin. Because we aren't hometesting yet, you don't know how low he is going. When he's at the vet, he most likely isn't low. That doesn't mean at home he isn't getting low. Others may advice you to not be giving that amount blindly. I'm not sure. I don't give advice on dosing.

I also wanted to let you know, most vets will discourage hometesting. That doesn't mean you follow that advice. We don't blindly inject humans with insulin, so why would we blindly inject our cats. I've had to part ways with a vet because of this. I'm not telling you to do that, I'm just making you aware of the constant nagging and ridicule that may take place. Don't listen to it though.

@Marje and Gracie @Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Suzanne & Darcy @Wendy&Neko

And don't be hard on yourself. You were simply following a medical professional that you trusted.
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Oh, dont' worry, we have parted ways with his original vet and have found a new one, who is also closer by. And that is not to say that she was a bad vet. I just don't think feline diabetes was something she was well practiced in. The new vet that we have been seeing since September is great! They are a cats only and the doctor that we see is very encouraging of at home testing. Most of the advice that she has give us lines up with most of what I have read here on the site.
 
While there is no data yet in your SS, once that information is available, I am sure we will be able to get things sorted and be able to help you with dosing going forward.
 
I have updated his spread sheet with his numbers from the past 4 days. Those are the only numbers that I really have, which may not be enough to go off of. I did a curve on the 4th which was 2 days after the hypo incident. As you can see he is running really high. I thought I would wait another 3 days to let his body adjust and then do another curve, since then I have just been spot checking before injections. However tonight he surprised with a reading of 173. That scared me so I decided not to give him any insulin. That's a good number in general but it's not a number I usually see around the 12th hour.
Was skipping the right call?
 
Maddie & Kai said:
Hi Christie!

In september when we switched to our new vet and our new everything she recommended switching him to an all wet food diet and explained how wet food was better for diabetic cats. I thought it would be the easiest switch ever, because what cat doesn't like just wet food? Apparently my cat. We discovered our boy is a picky eater and prefers the crunch of dry food, otherwise he will not eat at all. We struggled with this for several weeks before we caved and compromised with wet food mixed with a little bit of dry.
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You may want to investigate a few freeze dried or air dried food options which offer the crunch that dry food cat addicts like. Some popular brands are Stella and Chewy’s, ZiwiPeak and I recently came across one brand called Kiwi Kitchens.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
You may want to investigate a few freeze dried or air dried food options which offer the crunch that dry food cat addicts like. Some popular brands are Stella and Chewy’s, ZiwiPeak and I recently came across one brand called Kiwi Kitchens.
Click to expand...

Oh wow! That is a really good idea! Once we get him situated and back on track, I am definitely going to try that.
 
Hi there! Welcome. I’m sure we can help you. It looks like you are doing great with the testing now. That is wonderful and will help to both keep your baby safe as well as help us to get him into better numbers. What would really help is if you can start getting some test during the middle of the cycle. I would love to see a +4 test and a +6 test. If it’s hard for you to do, one day try to get a +4 and another a +6 and another a +2. The more data that you can fill in on his spreadsheet the better. We need to figure out when the ProZinc onsets for him and about when his typical nadir is (that is the lowest point in the cycle.). Then we can make some dosing decisions. I would like to talk to you about his feeding schedule as well. It’s almost midnight here and I get up at five a.m., so I will sign off until tomorrow. I’m glad you have joined us here!
 
Maddie & Kai said:
We struggled with this for several weeks before we caved and compromised with wet food mixed with a little bit of dry.
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Welcome Maddie and Kai, you really couldn't have found a better group to join.
If you are feeding any dry at all I would add that to your signature also so members are aware of it.

The RC Glycobalance wet is about 14 % carbs, too high for a diabetic cat
I would NOT change anything yet until you can start to get more tests in .

Just a few wet foods for your hypo kit
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs
Oh and honey



Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.
 
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Yes, as Diane said, the Glycobalance is a medium carb food and will contribute to higher blood glucose overall. Food transitions to lower carb food should be made slowly and when you are able to be available to carefully test BG because it can really make a difference in the numbers. You probably will want to try a food transition when Kai is still on the higher side of things though- just because it will make things easier and if numbers come down they will hopefully just be desirable lower numbers.
 
Hey Everyone!
Once we get this handsome boy back to normalcy I am going to absolutely look into alternative low carb foods. That food chart is AMAZING and so easy to read and understand. The suggestions on how to transition are even better. I also plan to do as Suzanne suggested and transition him when he is still running high. Hopefully it will bring his numbers down a little bit. I am also still interested into looking into the freeze dried food options that Christie suggest incase the little man decides to hunger strike when we try to switch to all wet food again. I feel much more confident and comfortable trying to switch him over now that I have a community that I can reach out to.

For now I have gone ahead and updated my signature to reflect that we are feeding him a mix of wet and dry.

Also, I have begun building up his hypo kit so that it is more than just karo syrup and his regular food. I went ahead a purchased a couple of cans of that fancy feast that Diane listed out, I know you said it didn't have to be fancy feast but I knew I would be able to get my hands on that pretty quick. I have also added a few other things from the list of suggestions in the previously posted links.

Lastly, I am going to continue gather up his numbers and updating his spreadsheet. I was able to come home at lunch and grab a 6 hour reading and plan to try some pm reading tonight. I will try and do that throughout the rest of the week and then I plan to try and do an AM & PM curve this weekend if all goes well.

Overall he is being a really good sport about the consistent pricking. Which leads me to my next question, what do you guys put on their little sores? I've used Neosporin in the past but I have heard recently that may not be the best option and that some kitty's have had bad reactions to it. He hasn't had any bad or allergic reactions to it so far but if there is a better alternative, I am open to suggestions.
 
Maddie & Kai said:
I've used Neosporin in the past but I have heard recently that may not be the best option and that some kitty's have had bad reactions to it. He hasn't had any bad or allergic reactions to it so far but if there is a better alternative, I am open to suggestions.
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Get pure coconut oil
I have read that many members use pure coconut oil, I have copied this from one of the members posts
just make sure the only ingredient is coconut oil (mine is solid at room temp and I would take an itty bitty dab and rub on his ears)
It seemed to help with the healing
You might be able to get it at a health food store or just Google pure coconut oil


don't use the Neosporin. There is new information that one of the ingredients in it is not good for cats. Check out this post:
Warning about Neosporin
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Get pure coconut oil
I have read that many members use pure coconut oil, I have copied this from one of the members posts
just make sure the only ingredient is coconut oil (mine is solid at room temp and I would take an itty bitty dab and rub on his ears)
It seemed to help with the healing
You might be able to get it at a health food store or just Google pure coconut oil


don't use the Neosporin. There is new information that one of the ingredients in it is not good for cats. Check out this post:
Warning about Neosporin
Click to expand...

Okay! I will try the coconut oil.
Thank you!
 
Hi Maddie. I'm sorry that Kai is so high. Next time if we can try it, I would recommend shooting maybe half dose of his insulin if he comes along with a lower preshot like he did this morning. This would, of course, be dependent upon your availability to monitor his BG during the cycle. This way he hopefully would not go so high and we could gather data on how he does with a half shot and a blue preshot. He's bouncing now from those lower numbers that his body is not accustomed to anymore, but he will come down and I'm encouraged actually that he had a blue preshot! It's a good sign (even though we have to put up with the bouncing, which can be confusing at time to deal with.)

I edited this to say that he’s bouncing from lower numbers not higher! He’s not used to the lower numbers. Sorry.
 
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It looks to me like the high numbers are the double whammy of a lower than expected test value at PM +5 on 1/8 and into the AM and having skipped your AM shot. The drop into the lower range, appears to have triggered a bounce. If a cat drops into low numbers, drops quite quickly, or drops into number that are lower than was his body is used to, the liver and pancreas overreact and release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones. These act to cause blood glucose numbers to spike. It can take several cycles for the bounce to clear. Bounces are annoying to us but are a normal part of the process.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I see another nice blue today on Kai’s SS! Very good.
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I'm so sorry Suzanne, I have not being getting alerts from these posts and have not checked this thread.
Kai has been doing good. We have started him on an antibiotic, the vet thinks an infection is causing his numbers to zigzag. Since we started to the antibiotic his numbers have been more consistent in cruving. He is still running hight but at least he is not zigzagging. Since then I have also increased his dosage to 2.5 which he has also responsed really well to. I'm taking things a slowly as possible. You can see all of the changes on his spread sheet.

However, tonight he has given me his lowest pre-shot number since starting the antibiotic and increasing him to 2.5u. I regret that I didn't get a mid day reading. I would have been able to see if his nadir had lowered more today than it has in the past few days. I don't think he is deeping too low but i'm still wondering should I continue to give him 2.5u or decrease for tonight. I may be overthinking it.
Can someone take a look and just let me know their opinion.
 
You may want to start a new conversation. Copy this link into your new message by clicking on the share button at the top. Also in the title of your new thread use the question mark prefix by clicking on drop down menu. You also want to include your cat's numbers for the day. This will bring everyone up to speed on what is currently going on with Kai and your current question about dosing.
 
Maddie & Kai said:
I'm so sorry Suzanne, I have not being getting alerts from these posts and have not checked this thread.
Kai has been doing good. We have started him on an antibiotic, the vet thinks an infection is causing his numbers to zigzag. Since we started to the antibiotic his numbers have been more consistent in cruving. He is still running hight but at least he is not zigzagging. Since then I have also increased his dosage to 2.5 which he has also responsed really well to. I'm taking things a slowly as possible. You can see all of the changes on his spread sheet.

However, tonight he has given me his lowest pre-shot number since starting the antibiotic and increasing him to 2.5u. I regret that I didn't get a mid day reading. I would have been able to see if his nadir had lowered more today than it has in the past few days. I don't think he is deeping too low but i'm still wondering should I continue to give him 2.5u or decrease for tonight. I may be overthinking it.
Can someone take a look and just let me know their opinion.
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I will skip his insulin tonight. Unfortunately, I messed up and went ahead and fed him, when I should have stalled to see if he was still rising.
 
Basic's Mom said:
You may want to start a new conversation. Copy this link into your new message by clicking on the share button at the top. Also in the title of your new thread use the question mark prefix by clicking on drop down menu. You also want to include your cat's numbers for the day. This will bring everyone up to speed on what is currently going on with Kai and your current question about dosing.
Click to expand...

Looks like we posted at the same time lol!
Thank you for replying. I will start a new thread but I think I have also come to a decisions to just skip tonights shot. I messed up by going ahead and feeding him. That lower pre-shot number of 272 really spooked me. That's not a bad number normally, but for how high he has been running lately, and compared to his normal pre-shot numbers in the 300-400s it definitely raised some alarms. Right now my don't shoot number is 250. I am still trying to take things as slow as possible after his hypo accident.
What I should have done was stall for an hour without food and see if he was still rising. Now I know better for next time.
He is rising now and he is feeling great. He is currently playing a mouse game on my tablet. I just checked him 20 minutes after the first reading and he had risen up to 280, but he had also just finished eating. I will skip tonight and check him again in 2 hours and then check him before I lay down for bed to make sure he is continuing to rise.
 
You have to do what you're comfortable with. I know how paranoid I would be after a hypo event.

Next time you are unsure of when to shoot or have another question, just use the question prefix. Someone will answer you when they can.

Since you are skipping, you will most likely see high numbers again soon. Often times, you can give token doses. I am not familiar with your insulin though. That may not be the case with it. You'd have to review the Prozinc sticky notes.
 
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