New Member- Kim and Richard

[Kim Fitzgerald]

Hello All, My name is Kim and my sugar cat, Richard, was diagnosed Nov. 5, 2021. His initial reading was 280 and diabetes confirmed with a urine test. He was started on 2 units Prozinc, 2x a day. After the first week he was down to 152 (tested at Vet). A week later it was 185 (also tested at Vet). His dose was not changed. My vet thought weekly tests were not needed, suggested I get a meter and home test occasionally and call with results. A client in the waiting room told me about ReliOn. Frankly I was scared of testing and started three weeks later. First reading was 341. I called the vet to see if my meter ( Relion) could be different from her Alphatrak and was told no, and to boost him to 3 units. Thankfully, I found this group the same time I started testing (12/19). I changed his kibble diet , and also my other two cats, to FF pate only. I have been testing twice a day, feeding, and waiting at least a half hour to give him his shot. He is fed thru the day and I leave food out for night. He is still on 3 units. How do you decide if the dose is right and when and how to reduce insulin? Richard is 15 and my vet didn't have answers on some things in his blood work- low red blood cells, low potassium and sky high Creatine Kinase. He is walking down on his front ankles and he is now on Zobaline which I found with the help of this group. I have attached his spreadsheet which I filled out from 1/1/22. Any help or advice is welcome.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pLXiUB0jUbvRnNpZg3_-ydAZ1Q/edit#gid=361360320

 

[Chrispooky12]

I'm no expert, I've been here since October. My boy is also on prozinc & it seems to start hitting him anywhere from 3-5hrs after insulin. That is when he is at his nadir which is the lowest #s in the cycle. If you can start getting some tests in then, it might help determine his dosage better. My boy Panzer started at 4units on here 6 before I started testing & went to fancy feast pate's. He is now down to.0.5units. Take a look at his spreadsheet & see if that helps you. You can also look at his 2021 tab as well. Hopefully someone who knows more will be able to help you more. @FrostD @tiffmaxee @JanetNJ @Diane Tyler's Mom . Good luck with your boy.

 

[JanetNJ]

Great job learning to test. I think your dose is too high. It makes me really nervous that you are giving 3 units with a preshot that is under 200 and then not testing a few hours later. Cutting out dry can make a huge difference. I would suggest getting a test every day mid cycle. If you work and aren’t home then get a before bed reading. I suspect that dose needs to be lowered a bit. The dose was raised incredibly fast. We recommend raising in 0.25-0.5 increments. Here's the info on dosing. https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Richard is 15 and my vet didn't have answers on some things in his blood work- low red blood cells, low potassium and sky high Creatine Kinase. H

Tagging @Wendy&Neko

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
Thanks ladies

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

A client in the waiting room told me about ReliOn. Frankly I was scared of testing and started three weeks later. First reading was 341. I called the vet to see if my meter ( Relion) could be different from her Alphatrak and was told no, and to boost him to 3 units. Thankfully, I found this group the same time I started testing (12/19). I

Hi Kim about the meters
THe Relion
is a human meter, so it's going to read lower then an alphatrak. the numbers are closer together at lower ranges, and far apart at higher numbers. The scale for normal on a human meter is 50-120 and on an alphatrack it's 68-150
Most of us use a human that's what our numbers are based on

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

How do you decide if the dose is right and when and how to reduce insulin? R

You need to choose a dosing method , Janet gave you the link above.
That will tell you when you need to increase or decrease the dose
Do you have the syringes with half unit markings ?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I have been testing twice a day, feeding, and waiting at least a half hour to give him his shot. He is fed thru the day and I leave food out for night.

For ProZinc, Lantus, and Levemir it's test, feed, shoot all within 10 minutes or so.
You with old food for 2 hours before testing his AMPS test and his PMPS test so it's not food influenced.
The more tests you can do during each 12 hour cycle the better, including the night cycle
so you can see how the insulin is working and how low he's dropping


Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
Just tap on your name and you will see the drop down, tap on signature add your info and hit save

You already have your SS set up which is great , after you set up your signature just link your SS to it

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

@JanetNJ

@FrostD
Any idea what dose Kim should lower the dose to since Janet thought
It was as too high

 

[FrostD]

I'm here and catching up, sorry I didn't get the tag earlier today for some reason

 

[FrostD]

Welcome! Funnily enough, my son's name is Richard

Unfortunately there just isn't enough data for me to make a solid recommendation. It looks to me like he may be going a bit too low overnight and bouncing by morning, then clearing it during the day (sometimes bounces take up to 6 cycles to clear, but on ProZinc it can often be next cycle, especially if dose is high). So, the safest thing to do for now is go to 2.5U until you can get a full curve in.

In the meantime, try to get spot checks whenever you can. So a +2 here, a +9 there, a +4 the next day, etc. Over the course of a few days aim to fill in the blanks so to speak, and get a picture of how his cycles go. If schedule doesn't allow that's ok, you'll want to do a curve (testing every other hour for 12 hrs) on a day you're home.

How long ago was the diet change? Any history of ketones or DKA? Are you home testing for ketones?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Welcome! Funnily enough, my son's name is Richard

Unfortunately there just isn't enough data for me to make a solid recommendation. It looks to me like he may be going a bit too low overnight and bouncing by morning, then clearing it during the day (sometimes bounces take up to 6 cycles to clear, but on ProZinc it can often be next cycle, especially if dose is high). So, the safest thing to do for now is go to 2.5U until you can get a full curve in.

In the meantime, try to get spot checks whenever you can. So a +2 here, a +9 there, a +4 the next day, etc. Over the course of a few days aim to fill in the blanks so to speak, and get a picture of how his cycles go. If schedule doesn't allow that's ok, you'll want to do a curve (testing every other hour for 12 hrs) on a day you're home.

How long ago was the diet change? Any history of ketones or DKA? Are you home testing for ketones?

Thanks Melissa
@FrostD

 

[Kim Fitzgerald]

Thank You!

 

[Kim Fitzgerald]

I'm no expert, I've been here since October. My boy is also on prozinc & it seems to start hitting him anywhere from 3-5hrs after insulin. That is when he is at his nadir which is the lowest #s in the cycle. If you can start getting some tests in then, it might help determine his dosage better. My boy Panzer started at 4units on here 6 before I started testing & went to fancy feast pate's. He is now down to.0.5units. Take a look at his spreadsheet & see if that helps you. You can also look at his 2021 tab as well. Hopefully someone who knows more will be able to help you more. @FrostD @tiffmaxee @JanetNJ @Diane Tyler's Mom . Good luck with your boy.

Thank you very much. It is very encouraging that you were able to lower the dose so well.

 

[Kim Fitzgerald]

You need to choose a dosing method , Janet gave you the link above.
That will tell you when you need to increase or decrease the dose
Do you have the syringes with half unit markings ?

I am using the comfort point syringe that only marks full units. I did estimate last night to give Richard a 2.5 dose. I'll look for different syringes. Thank you.

 

[Kim Fitzgerald]

For ProZinc, Lantus, and Levemir it's test, feed, shoot all within 10 minutes or so.
You with old food for 2 hours before testing his AMPS test and his PMPS test so it's not food influenced.
The more tests you can do during each 12 hour cycle the better, including the night cycle
so you can see how the insulin is working and how low he's dropping


Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
Just tap on your name and you will see the drop down, tap on signature add your info and hit save

You already have your SS set up which is great , after you set up your signature just link your SS to it

Thank you. I will make the change to test, feed and shot closer together. I will work on the signature- I seem to have lost my computer skills but working on it. I plan to do a curve tomorrow , Wednesday. I did drop the dose to approximately 2.5 last night and this morning.

 

[Kim Fitzgerald]

Welcome! Funnily enough, my son's name is Richard

Unfortunately there just isn't enough data for me to make a solid recommendation. It looks to me like he may be going a bit too low overnight and bouncing by morning, then clearing it during the day (sometimes bounces take up to 6 cycles to clear, but on ProZinc it can often be next cycle, especially if dose is high). So, the safest thing to do for now is go to 2.5U until you can get a full curve in.

In the meantime, try to get spot checks whenever you can. So a +2 here, a +9 there, a +4 the next day, etc. Over the course of a few days aim to fill in the blanks so to speak, and get a picture of how his cycles go. If schedule doesn't allow that's ok, you'll want to do a curve (testing every other hour for 12 hrs) on a day you're home.

How long ago was the diet change? Any history of ketones or DKA? Are you home testing for ketones?

I changed Richard's diet to all pate three weeks ago. Only exception is a Temptation treat before and after each test and shot. -so 8 a day. I just found a freeze dried treat he likes so weaning off Temptations ( very hard- he loves them) Should also note, he is eating on one side of his mouth. I have been looking for a vet to do a dental and most are booked out months or are unbelievably costly. I do have an evaluation set up for the end of the month with a new vet. His blood test did not show white blood cells elevated and current vet said she looked at teeth and they were fine! Current Vet did urine test did not mention ketones or diet. I just bought test strips.

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you. I will make the change to test, feed and shot closer together. I will work on the signature- I seem to have lost my computer skills but working on it. I plan to do a curve tomorrow , Wednesday. I did drop the dose to approximately 2.5 last night and this morning.

I think that's a good call. .