New Member Intro - Bailey UK

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BaileyUK

Member Since 2013
First of all as a new-comer I hope this is in the right forum we ideally want to be on the Lantus pages but understand that newbies should post first on this page so here goes:

This post is about our 13 year old beloved white and fawn Maine Coon BAILEY who was diagnosed with FD in January this year.

Following 9 turbulent months on Canninsulin and blind dosing (only options presented to us by our vet at the time – we are in the UK) last month we managed to get him onto Lantus and started home testing. He seemed a lot more himself almost as soon as we started him on Lantus. He has been on it now for just over a month and his Diabetes is currently under good control. His fructosamine is around the 350 mark and bordering on the low side if anything.

He had a hypo earlier in June as a result of blind dosing whilst on Canninsulin (and whilst unaware of the dangers of blind dosing). We think that he has had chronic Pancreatitis for some time (perhaps the cause of the Diabetes) and that an acute flair up knocked his blood sugars out which led to the Hypo.

Following the Hypo it was then very difficult to get him regulated again. Urine readings were showing glucose off the scale and spot check readings pre insulin at the vets varied but were usually in the high teens (mmol/L). He was also getting very dehydrated and was having to go to the vets for IV fluids - at one point twice in just 4 days. We feared that the end was nigh and so took the plunge to get him onto the new insulin we had read so much about on this forum.

Since changing over to Lantus we’ve been very pleased with the results and the control that we currently have and hope that it can stay that way if not improve towards some sort of remission but we shall see. Compared to how Bailey was this is a massive step as he was literally at death’s door and it was very touch and go prior to getting him onto Lantus. At the moment his nadir is usually around 5 and pre insulin checks his blood sugar around 12 but this does fluctuate a little from day to day. He is currently on just under 4 units of Lantus twice a day (@ 12 hour intervals) - he started on 6 units and we managed to bring him down after only a week or two.

Aside from the Diabetes Bailey’s body shape has changed considerably, he has a lot of muscle loss along with a very pronounced belly. We’re a little worried that his ballooning belly is putting a strain on things but are reluctant to put him thru further tests / ultra-sounds etc to determine exactly why this belly is so pronounced. Our vet says that it is fluid which we know can’t be good but are hoping that it is related to the Pancreatitis and not something else on top of this.

As his clinical signs are currently really good we are just waiting to see if the fluid around his tummy goes away but we’re concerned that if it doesn’t then it could progress to the lungs or put a strain on his heart. It’s such a dilemma as he seems so much happier and relaxed (he was a different cat for the months that he was on Canninsulin - very withdrawn and showing no interest in us at all) we are holding out that the fluid clears and are also waiting on a further round of blood tests to determine what his Pancreas function is like now that he is regulated. We should have the results in the next couple of days.

This is a great site and it has been very helpful to us to read other’s stories on here we have been reluctant to post anything until now as we have had such a rough ride. I hope that this can be of some use to other UK owners who are wanting to take the plunge with Lantus it’s certainly not something UK vets seem to have a lot of experience with but seems to be so much of a better alternative to the Canine Insulin which most vets seem to favour here in the UK. If anyone has any experience with the pot belly side effects of pancreatitis then please let us know we are very interested to hear what could be done without putting the poor little guy through more tests and the like.

Thanks for taking the time to read this we shall keep updating as and when we know more.

Bailey's Dad, (Barnes)
 
Welcome Barnes and Bailey.

I'm glad you were able to convince your vet to switch Bailey over to Lantus. Are you home testing his blood sugar?

I'm going to be checking your thread, as my J.D. also has muscle loss and a roundish belly and has had bouts with cronic pancreatitis.

I hope to see you posting often.
 
Hi Dyana and J.D. thanks for the reply.

Yes we are home testing now - the only way to do it! Here in the UK vets don't seem to like us doing this strange but true!

His belly is very solid has been like that for 3-4 months now hoping we'll see it improve and also your little one also makes progress on this front.

B
 
Hi Bailey's Dad,

And welcome from a very sunny Surrey!

You're so right about vets in the UK not being too keen (generally) on hometesting. My vet was very anti the idea at first. But after my cat had been diabetic for a few years he really came to respect our decision. He'd never had a cat live so long post diagnosis (Bert has been diabetic and on insulin for just over six and a half years now.)

Vets in the UK have to prescribe a veterinary insulin before they can prescribe a 'human' one, and in the UK Caninsulin is the only veterinary insulin available now. They can only prescribe another insulin if the Caninsulin isn't sufficiently effective. It's good news that the Lantus is working better for Bailey.

Can't help with the pancreatitis stuff, sorry about that. But there are quite a few folks here with experience of it.

Ask any and all questions you want to.

Really just wanted to say 'Welcome aboard!'

Elizabeth
 
Hi Elizabeth

Thanks for the welcome note - good to hear that Bert is doing so well that is really good to hear and very encouraging.

We are lucky that so many people are willing to share their experiences on here as without this we would have been without a cat I feel it really was that bad on the Canninsulin and the blind dosing they were seriously dark days for us.

Thanks again for your note all the best.

B
 
If you would like to post on the Lantus forum, it is ok to do so. I will suggest that if you haven't done it already that you create a google spreadsheet with Bailey's BG tests and add it to your signature. The lantus forum is very numbers focused and the spreadsheet is what is used to help with that.


viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207


They also ask that you create one main post each day, listing the date, cat's name and BG tests in the subject. Put all your issues/questions/concerns in that day's post (AKA condo) so as to keep everything together.

Of course, you can always post on this forum - Health.

Welcome to the group.
 
Welcome Barnes and Bailey!

Bailey is a handsome guy :)

You've come to a great place and you'll get some wonderful advice and support from an amazing group of people.

Lots of vets here in the States too often don't even mention home testing and sometimes discourage it. My first vet included. I just don't understand why since home testing is such a valuable and life saving tool.
 
Hello and welcome to the board!

Lets get you set up with a spreadsheet before you move over to the Lantus board. I tihnk Hillary gave you a link but let us know if you need help.

4 units of Lantus is quite a lot, most cats (although not all) on here are around 1-2 units, so I wonder if something is spiking his blood sugar. What food are you feeding him?

Wendy
 
Hi Wendy

Thanks for your help - we're getting there slowly SS will be up later today. Noticed that a lot of owners are testing several times a day we have been told to just test the nadir every other day and occasionally take a pre insulin reading - it's a two man job for us to test Bailey so much harder to keep doing this - how many times per day should we ideally be testing do you think?

Bailey is on Royal Canin Diabetic cat food we mix it with fresh roast chicken to bulk it up a bit we are pretty strict with his diet. I suspect that there may also be difficulty with brining his BG down owing to the underlying Pancreatitis and the non constant amount of insulin his body produces on account of this.

He is on just under 4 U at the moment but the syringes are incredibly hard to use as each increment is 2 units and also with the Lantus being so viscous we pretty much always get an air bubble thus making it even harder to measure how much we're giving him.

Thanks
 
Hi Barnes. Great job getting the spreadsheet up.

We recommend testing at least 4 times a day. You always want to test before each shot to make it is safe to give insulin. Let's say he was 42 in US numbers at PS time, you would want to either skip that shot, or wait a while without feeding to make sure he came up before giving him the insulin. It's a safety thing. We always say you wouldn't give your child insulin without testing her BG first, right? It's the same with Bailey. Also, getting a mid-cycle test twice a day or whenever you can, helps to determine if the dose is too much or too little. With those 79s you got mid cycle, I would say that dose was looking good at that time, but their insulin needs can change as they heal.

I always draw more insulin than I need into the syringe and then flick it with my fingernail to get those pesky bubbles to the top of the syringe where they can be pushed out the top before fine tuning the dose. I often waste a lot of insulin getting those pesky bubbles out, but Lantus likes consistancy, so I try to be as consistant as possible. It's too bad your syringes only have 2 unit marks, maybe you can send a PM (Private Message) to Diana&Tom who lives in the UK and hopefully she can help you to find some syringes with 1/2 unit marks on them, or at least 1 unit marks.
 
Hi Barnes, sorry I'm late to welcome you to the board, but better late than never: welcome from another UKer! I'm in Surrey.

I'm not treating a diabetic cat these days but still like to keep an eye on this site, it's amazing, you will learn so much and soon be helping others too.

I posted here yesterday myself, after a visit to the vet with my civvie, Sapphire - I was told that I should be brushing her teeth. Uhhhhhhhh..... I don't think so somehow, but I posted here and got some really helpful comments.

I'm afraid I'm not the best person to advise you on where to get supplies such as syringes, as I haven't had to get any for a good while now, but the very best person to help I think is Elizabeth (and Bertie) who has been treating Bertie for FD for six years and is both knowledgeable and helpful. She may be along here later, but I will PM her anyway.

Best of luck!

Diana
 
Thanks Dyana

Appreciate you taking a look at Bail's numbers I agree with those mid readings 4.4 (UK) we thought we had cracked it and then he shot back up to 15 mid cycle so we had to up the dose again.

I do think we need to find better syringes as these are incredibly hard to measure - we also have a job pulling back before giving the shot as the syringe is so stiff! I will drop Diana&Tom a PM and see what syringes they're using - it really is a fine art all this!

In terms of doing his bloods more often our vet currently says test the nadir every other day but that is from first being told we couldn't home test for the first 9 months as it would be too complicated! As I say the blood testing is a two man job he is v difficult to keep still and so it's difficult to test him so regularly as we don't live in the same house although I am just around the corner and call in each day to see him - doting parent!

We'll try and work out a way we can test him more regularly but it will be v tricky - I see that some owners are testing upto 10 times a day - their cats must have v sore ears!

The overriding factor here is that we want to get him better so whatever sacrifices need to be made will be made.

We are still concerned about the fluid in his belly waiting for test results still but looks like we'll have to pressure our vet for an aspiration even though they feel they would rather leave him be for now - it's the not knowing and the potential that we have another illness to contend with here just as we're getting the Diabetes under control - v disheartening!

Thanks again for all your help and support we really appreciate it.

B&B
 
Diana and Tom

Thank you for the welcome note Diana no worries on the syringes thank you for asking Elizabeth about this much appreciated.

Bailey had all his teeth removed around 2 years ago know - all except for 3 canines and a couple of little ones at the font - poor little guy. He had advanced decay and so really needed them out in the end but it was an ordeal - not sure how you would go about cleaning Sapphire's teeth that sounds like you have a job on your hands!

Thanks again for the support and best of luck with the teeth!

B&B
 
Did you see the Diana&Tom posted above you? :lol: Talk about coincidence :cool:

I was taught to move the plunger up and down and up and down in the syringe before filling it with insulin. That helps to get the silicon that's inside the syringe spread around and make the plunger slide more evenly.

Do you give Bailey a treat and extra pats and "good boys" after every test? Eventually the cats learn to like testing and come running when they hear the glucometer being readied as they know it's treat time. I hope Bailey is one of those. Hopefully, you'll be able to make it a one man job with practice.

I switch ears on J.D. after about a week or when one ear starts to seem bruised. Then I put a little neosporin with pain relief on the bruised ear, and use the other one for about a week while the first one heals. It works well, and J.D.'s ear look pretty fine after many years of testing.
 
Thanks Dyana

I know such a coincidence!

Thanks for the tip with the plunger we shall try that.

Hopefully we can get this down to a one man job - we do give him low-carb treats each time and he doesn't seem so bothered by the testing now that we're all used to it but I have tried it on my own and it is do'able but not easy - we'll have to see how we get on. We'll certainly start doing more tests now as you suggest.

We'll post on the Lantus forum and see what other feedback we get on these results.

Thanks again!
 
Looks like we're all on line at the same time!

Barnes, testing can definitely be a one-man job. I did it and so do many many others completely unaided. There are loads of tips from people here and the thing is to find a way that suits YOU - then you relax, which is half the battle, then everything starts to feel easier.

And on that note, I am now off to work @-)

Diana
 
Thank you Diana much appreciated!

Just updated another thread re Bailey's swollen tummy here's where we are now upto on the Pancreatitis front:

We got the test results back this morning and Bailey still has Pancreatitis his Lipase reading last month was 12 and has since gone upto 17 so we are starting him on Dudesonide which is a steroid that is not meant to mess with his insulin as badly as the other's we're told and he will also be on another course of anti-biotics.

Ultra-sound booked in for 2 weeks time to get some clarity on his swollen abdomen to all intents looks like Pancreatitis but we do need to rule out other possibilities.
 
Thank you Eliz your are so kind we will order some of these!

Noticed you have some food listed on your signature - we have Bails on Royal Canin and the occasional Lily's meal / kibble treat (for after his bloods) do you recommend any of these over Royal Canin as we notice this still has carbs in it?

Thank you!
 
Heres some food lists that have the UK in them that might help - you are looking for % calories from carbs under 10% but maybe PM Elizabeth and see if she has more ideas https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NSWUx2ak7wcs2_G5TXr7BhPMrU7CVmW_3ouKPTUQhhA/pub

I usually recommend 4 tests a day

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 11mmol/L but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low he is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want him dropping too low (under 2.8mmol/L).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what his overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

Wendy

PS many people here are in the US and will quote the numbers in mg/dl so they will seem a lot higher - just multiply yours by 18 to get into US numbers.
 
Hi Barnes & Bailey :-D

Just wanted to welcome both of you and let you know that we are all here to help you. Gobbles, is my (still-sugary sweet) diabetic cat in remission. He was diagnosed in November 2012 and went "OTJ" (off the juice) this past May. Without the help, support, compassion and guidance of FDMB members, I am scared to think where we'd be at now with his diagnosis. This all gets easier, believe me. Please ask ANY questions you have. Good luck!
 
Thank you Kat and Gobbles!

I am very pleased to hear that Gobbles is in remission and OTJ! That is great to hear!

Thanks again!

B&B
 
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