New Member - Help please!

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CaitnBowie

CaitnBowie

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Hi everyone! I am brand new to this form- have been lurking for a week or so.
To attempt to keep it short....
I have an 8yo male cat named Bowie. He was diagnosed last June 2023 with diabetes at a small town vet. He had been peeing in front of the litterbox (has never been a problem), and ended up having a UTI due to excess sugar.
They put him on 2u of Novilin NPH and said he will be fine and to just watch his behavior. I was young dumb and listened to this vet. They basically said 'you can do insulin if you really want'......
When I asked about home testing they said no need and I continued on. Fast forward to two months ago. Behaviors have been increasing. Increased water intake, eating twice as much, peeing EVERYWHERE in large amounts. Multiple times a day. Bowie is on a low carb friskies pate diet- based on the spreadsheet, and has been since initial diagnosis. I did some research, and found a new vet that would hopefully lead me in the right direction. As of going to this new vet- I have been home testing and we have increased insulin and waited a week each increase until up to 4.5u. I have spent close to $1,000 in vet bills alone due to blood labs, tests, antibiotics and yet- he seems to be getting worse! No changes at all in BG (his highest 5 hour reading has been around 327). Due to this, she recommended switching insulin. Last week, I switched to 2u of Glargine. The first day was horrible. The vet was closed, he was lethargic and yowling like he was in pain. I had no option but to monitor him and just be there-with no one to call. He is doing as well as he can at the moment- is fully attentive and is finally back to his cuddly self...but still peeing all over my studio apartment.. Multiple times an hour...with such large amounts that I can no longer keep up with it. At this point, I have gone into the vet office and broken down multiple times telling them that he has gone DOWNHILL since going to this vet. I live alone and work full time as well as night college classes. Everyday I have to deep clean my floor before class, after class, before I go to bed, in the middle of the night. It has been a few months of consistent cleaning that I'm really afraid I'm becoming resentful toward him. I have actually reached the point where I am wondering if re homing to someone with more time and patience is better for him overall. Even typing that drives me into a breakdown when I think of losing my baby. I know it is not his fault-- he poops in the box every time, and pees in the box occasionally when the universe smiles at me. I have capped out any extra income and maxed out my credit cards. My mental health is struggling and I am not doing well at all. The vet seems to be clueless and does not reassure me. She wants to continue slowly raising insulin weekly, and then do a curve after each week. I am not sure what advice I even need- but I want to make sure I am doing absolutely everything I can. I do not believe this vet wants to help- I think they just want my money. Any advice is appreciated and I thank everyone in advance! Please help me get Bowie's life back.
 
CaitnBowie said:
Hi everyone! I am brand new to this form- have been lurking for a week or so.
To attempt to keep it short....
I have an 8yo male cat named Bowie. He was diagnosed last June 2023 with diabetes at a small town vet. He had been peeing in front of the litterbox (has never been a problem), and ended up having a UTI due to excess sugar.
They put him on 2u of Novilin NPH and said he will be fine and to just watch his behavior. I was young dumb and listened to this vet. They basically said 'you can do insulin if you really want'......
When I asked about home testing they said no need and I continued on. Fast forward to two months ago. Behaviors have been increasing. Increased water intake, eating twice as much, peeing EVERYWHERE in large amounts. Multiple times a day. Bowie is on a low carb friskies pate diet- based on the spreadsheet, and has been since initial diagnosis. I did some research, and found a new vet that would hopefully lead me in the right direction. As of going to this new vet- I have been home testing and we have increased insulin and waited a week each increase until up to 4.5u. I have spent close to $1,000 in vet bills alone due to blood labs, tests, antibiotics and yet- he seems to be getting worse! No changes at all in BG (his highest 5 hour reading has been around 327). Due to this, she recommended switching insulin. Last week, I switched to 2u of Glargine. The first day was horrible. The vet was closed, he was lethargic and yowling like he was in pain. I had no option but to monitor him and just be there-with no one to call. He is doing as well as he can at the moment- is fully attentive and is finally back to his cuddly self...but still peeing all over my studio apartment.. Multiple times an hour...with such large amounts that I can no longer keep up with it. At this point, I have gone into the vet office and broken down multiple times telling them that he has gone DOWNHILL since going to this vet. I live alone and work full time as well as night college classes. Everyday I have to deep clean my floor before class, after class, before I go to bed, in the middle of the night. It has been a few months of consistent cleaning that I'm really afraid I'm becoming resentful toward him. I have actually reached the point where I am wondering if re homing to someone with more time and patience is better for him overall. Even typing that drives me into a breakdown when I think of losing my baby. I know it is not his fault-- he poops in the box every time, and pees in the box occasionally when the universe smiles at me. I have capped out any extra income and maxed out my credit cards. My mental health is struggling and I am not doing well at all. The vet seems to be clueless and does not reassure me. She wants to continue slowly raising insulin weekly, and then do a curve after each week. I am not sure what advice I even need- but I want to make sure I am doing absolutely everything I can. I do not believe this vet wants to help- I think they just want my money. Any advice is appreciated and I thank everyone in advance! Please help me get Bowie's life back.
Click to expand...

Hi Caitn and Bowie, do not despair you came to the right place, it is overwhelming what you are going thru, believe me I feel you, for starts you are doing great by home testing, and feeding the correct %carbs of foods ,unfortunately most of un members have had nightmare with Vets at one time or another, they are not familiar with Feline Diabetes, so they treat the illness as if they were dogs, and there is a big big difference, for starters the first insulin he had Bowie on is a canine insulin, here we will be able to place Bowie back on track with your help, we first need more information on Bowie to be able to guide you on this journey, we need to know a lot of things the list will be in the link below on help us help you, a do not despair, there is a product sold on line or Walmart US called POOPH, to remove the worse smells in the world, it is safe for the planet plants food and our pets, the reason he is peeing so much is because his poor bladder is so full from drinking water, poor baby, I will tag an expert to help you with the correct insulin and dosing, I can by experience understand the financial situation, I had to reach out to a Feline Foundation that helps me with all the supplies I need, if you are in the states I can send you the link to that as well, in the mean time we need the information that's in the link below the sooner you place your signature and all information on Bowie, including creating a spreadsheet so we can see the data on Bowies Bg testing, the quicker we can step in with you. Vets are sometimes not the answer, unless there are other illnesses involved, We are here for you:bighug::bighug::cat::cat: I was told, take a step back, breath in and breath out, our anxiety filter right into our fur babies, and they also become anxious causing higher Bgs as well
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
Hi and welcome to you and Bowie.
I am sorry you are having so much trouble with the peeing everywhere. I can understand how different it must be. Have you tried to use puppy pads or restrict him to one room to eliminate some of the cleaning up. I am wondering if he might have another UTI. If he is still u regulated he will be peeing a lot more. Poor boy must feel awful.
And the reason he is eating so much is because he is unable to utilise all the nutrients in the food. Once we can get the blood glucose more under control his hunger should reduce.
I am very glad you have swapped over to Lantus. It is a much better insulin for cats.
And it is great you are home testing!
  • Do you think you could set up the spreadsheet and the signature and add some of the data so we can see what is happening. If you have trouble with the SS we can get someone to set it up for you. Just ask.
  • Are you testing before every dose and then feeding him and then giving the dose?
  • Do you test during the cycles at all?
  • I would also commend giving him snacks during the cycles. A snack is a teaspoon or two of low carb food. If you are away a lot you might need to get an automatic timed feeder. A lot of us use them and they are a godsend.
Keep asking questions and we will do our best to help you sort this out. And we can definitely help you with dosing as long as the SS is set up and has data. :bighug::)
 
Thank you both so much! I have started to set up the spreadsheet and will fill it in as I am able! If I am home I do test during the cycle- but at the moment do not have time at home to do so between work and class! I am all for testing before meals. I am using puppy pads- but am wondering if I am training him to pee there instead of the box. I appreciate all the help already and will work on the spreadsheet!
 
@CaitnBowie
Can you please set up your signature
Information we need about Bowie
This is where you can set up what we call your signature, it's at the end of everyone's post in gray letters. Just tap on your name up top then tap on signature and add this information. You will link it to your spreadsheet

  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Bexacat or Senvelgo (if applicable) and dates
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
@CaitnBowie
Can you please set up your signature
Information we need about Bowie
This is where you can set up what we call your signature, it's at the end of everyone's post in gray letters. Just tap on your name up top then tap on signature and add this information. You will link it to your spreadsheet

  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Bexacat or Senvelgo (if applicable) and dates
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much! I believe I added the info.
 
Do you have any more test data? The last information on Bowie's spreadsheet is from 9/25.

We are very numbers dependent. I would be hesitant to make any suggestions about your cat's insulin dose without having more information to base my recommendations on. We typically suggest testing at AMPS and PMPS so you know that it's safe to give a shot. You also need to get at least one test during both the AM and PM cycles. Lantus dosing is based on how low the insulin drops your cat's blood glucose numbers. Generally, a cat will be urinating excessively if blood glucose levels are not well regulated.

Given your schedule, this post on managing your cat's diabetes might be helpful.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Do you have any more test data? The last information on Bowie's spreadsheet is from 9/25.

We are very numbers dependent. I would be hesitant to make any suggestions about your cat's insulin dose without having more information to base my recommendations on. We typically suggest testing at AMPS and PMPS so you know that it's safe to give a shot. You also need to get at least one test during both the AM and PM cycles. Lantus dosing is based on how low the insulin drops your cat's blood glucose numbers. Generally, a cat will be urinating excessively if blood glucose levels are not well regulated.

Given your schedule, this post on managing your cat's diabetes might be helpful.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the link! It truly helped to calm my worried mind. I now know to test AMPS and PMPS (was told by vet not to worry) and am going to begin that tomorrow. I am also getting a curve tomorrow to see where we are sitting. Tonight was a class night and my mother was at my house to feed and administer shot (she has tried but he will NOT allow her to even get near him for a test). I may be one of the people who is only able to get AMPS / PMPS unless I have random time home during the day to get an extra test in, or am off that day. Is there a typical duration that is best? Or is the number not set? The vet typically had me do a curve: AMPS, +2, +4, +6. But I am not sure if that is correct. I also apologize if I am not utilizing the form correctly for my questions- I hope to get better/ more familiar with this website!
 
CaitnBowie said:
Thank you so much for the link! It truly helped to calm my worried mind. I now know to test AMPS and PMPS (was told by vet not to worry) and am going to begin that tomorrow. I am also getting a curve tomorrow to see where we are sitting. Tonight was a class night and my mother was at my house to feed and administer shot (she has tried but he will NOT allow her to even get near him for a test). I may be one of the people who is only able to get AMPS / PMPS unless I have random time home during the day to get an extra test in, or am off that day. Is there a typical duration that is best? Or is the number not set? The vet typically had me do a curve: AMPS, +2, +4, +6. But I am not sure if that is correct. I also apologize if I am not utilizing the form correctly for my questions- I hope to get better/ more familiar with this website![/QUOTE
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Click to expand...
 
CaitnBowie said:
Thank you so much for the link! It truly helped to calm my worried mind. I now know to test AMPS and PMPS (was told by vet not to worry) and am going to begin that tomorrow. I am also getting a curve tomorrow to see where we are sitting. Tonight was a class night and my mother was at my house to feed and administer shot (she has tried but he will NOT allow her to even get near him for a test). I may be one of the people who is only able to get AMPS / PMPS unless I have random time home during the day to get an extra test in, or am off that day. Is there a typical duration that is best? Or is the number not set? The vet typically had me do a curve: AMPS, +2, +4, +6. But I am not sure if that is correct. I also apologize if I am not utilizing the form correctly for my questions- I hope to get better/ more familiar with this website!
Click to expand...
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
 
CaitnBowie said:
I have capped out any extra income and maxed out my credit cards.
Click to expand...
Hi Cait I see on your spreadsheet you are using the Alpha Trak 2 ,

@CaitnBowie
I know the test strips are very expensive . You don't have to use a pet meter, most of us use a human meter since that's what our numbers are based on
This will save you money

Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197
At least if you need more test strips you can run into Walmart and pick them up or if you're running low you can just order them from Walmart

If you do decide to purchase the Relion meter the only thing you have to change on your spreadsheet are the last 2 color codes up top

The dark green would be 50-99
The lime green would be BG<50

But for now you need to add the Alpha Trak 2 to your signature . If you switch to the Relion at any time on your signature after you add the Alpha Trak 2 to your signature you would then have to put Relion meter after the Alpha Trak 2 and put Relion as of and the date.

Same goes for your spreadsheet where you have the Alpha Trak 2 .

Tag me if you switch and I'll tell you what else you need to do in your spreadsheet :cat:

Do you have the U-100 syringes with the half units for Glargine? We increase or decrease by 0.35 units at a time, having these will make it easier to do

You can order the U-100 syringes with half unit markings from Amazon without a doctors script
https://www.amazon.com/UltiCare-31-Gauge-Veterinary-Insulin-Syringes/dp/B009LTE0DO
 
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@CaitnBowie
Have a hypo kit ready if needed
Med and High Carb food and have honey in your house



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods



https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.

Or look at the Friskies on the food chart , look at the
Friskies Gravy Sensations
 
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CaitnBowie said:
Bowie is on a low carb friskies pate diet- based on the spreadsheet, and has been since initial diagnosis. I
Click to expand...
@CaitnBowie
Since I see you said above
Bowie is on a low carb friskies pate diet- based on the spreadsheet, and has been since initial diagnosis.
So you can look at the suggestions I gave you about the hypo kit about the Friskies, they are probably cheaper than the Fancy Feast Med and high carb foods
 
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CaitnBowie said:
The vet typically had me do a curve: AMPS, +2, +4, +6. But I am not sure if that is correct.
Click to expand...
About doing a curve


From the SLGS sticky
Hold the dose for at least a week:
  • Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
  • Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12 hour curve, testing every 2 hours OR perform an 18 hour curve, testing every 3 hours. Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
 
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@CaitnBowie
Here's an example only about doing a 12 hour curve

Example
Lets say you test at 7 AM, then feed Bowie,then you give insulin

So your next test would be 2 hours later which would be
at 9:00 AM then
at 11:00 AM
at 1:00 PM
at 3:00 PM
at 5:00 PM
at. 7:00 PM
 
With Lantus Most of us test, feed, shoot,all within 10
to 15 minutes.
Lantus kicks in about 2 hours after giving insulin

Also on your spreadsheet after you have Glargine can you add after that
Glargine started 9/2024 like you have in your signature
@CaitnBowie
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
With Lantus Most of us test, feed, shoot,all within 10
to 15 minutes.
Lantus kicks in about 2 hours after giving insulin

Also on your spreadsheet after you have Glargine can you add after that
Glargine started 9/2024 like you have in your signature
@CaitnBowie
Click to expand...
You are phenomenal! I will add those details to my signature and spreadsheet. I will also take a trip to Walmart tomorrow for some gravy lovers! I keep sugar syrup with his kit. Most likely I will use the remaining test strips with the alpha trek 2 before switching- but am definitely picking up the human meter (you are an angel for that!!) I do have 1/2u U-100 syringes already that I get from Walmart as well that are the shorter needle. Thank you so much for your help. I already have much more confidence that I can do this! @Diane Tyler's Mom GA
 
CaitnBowie said:
You are phenomenal! I will add those details to my signature and spreadsheet. I will also take a trip to Walmart tomorrow for some gravy lovers! I keep sugar syrup with his kit. Most likely I will use the remaining test strips with the alpha trek 2 before switching- but am definitely picking up the human meter (you are an angel for that!!) I do have 1/2u U-100 syringes already that I get from Walmart as well that are the shorter needle. Thank you so much for your help. I already have much more confidence that I can do this! @Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Click to expand...

@CaitnBowie
Hi Cait you're very welcome :cat:

There are a lot of experienced members here when it comes to giving dosing advice. If I can't answer a question for you I will tag an experienced member for you. Tag me after you use up all the Alpha Trak strips and I'll tell you what you have to do
You can do this :cat:
 
I finished the 12 hour curve and added to SS! Will be continuing AMPS/PMPS with checks in between as able. My vet had me scheduled to call with curve updates today- but the veterinarian was out of town for a conference. The vet on site recommended to stay at the current dose even with numbers we are seeing. We have been on 3u for 12 days. Hopefully the vet will call me when she is back in town. His lowest today was +4 @252 Am I wrong for thinking I should increase by .25u? I have given the typical 3u dose as of now and have not adjusted without reason. But based on the Lantus forum I believe we should be increasing.
 
CaitnBowie said:
I finished the 12 hour curve and added to SS! Will be continuing AMPS/PMPS with checks in between as able. My vet had me scheduled to call with curve updates today- but the veterinarian was out of town for a conference. The vet on site recommended to stay at the current dose even with numbers we are seeing. We have been on 3u for 12 days. Hopefully the vet will call me when she is back in town. His lowest today was +4 @252 Am I wrong for thinking I should increase by .25u? I have given the typical 3u dose as of now and have not adjusted without reason. But based on the Lantus forum I believe we should be increasing.
Click to expand...
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@tiffmaxee
 
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