New member: Helen + Noogi, food advice please

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Helen + Noogi

Helen + Noogi

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Hello from Cape Town, South Africa.

I'm Helen and my handsome boy is Noogi, aged 14. He was diagnosed in Oct/Nov last year after pancreatitis. Initially Noogi was being closely supervised by my primary vet, as well as a specialist vet, as he did not respond well to the first insulin he was on. We changed to Lantus and he wore a Free Style Libre for a couple weeks. His BG was all over the place for the first six or so weeks, although mostly very high. His dose was up to 4 units at one time, 3 for a few weeks and then down to 2, as his numbers began to settle down. It's all been going much better since beginning of January.

I started home testing mid-December to have more info and control. I'm still mostly under supervision of my vet for dosage changes, but gaining my confidence to start fine-tuning things to manage him even better on my own. Not yet following one of the two main protocols - still on a major learning curve, but encouraged that I'll get there. I've not yet set up a spreadsheet but plan to do so soon.

Noogi has had one hypo episode and a couple close calls that I averted with honey and high carb food. Although I have only just joined this site now I have been 'lurking' for a bit, and want to thank you for the info on here on hypos. When it happened I had my hypo kit ready and knew what to do. So grateful, thank you.

I really want to look at his food now. Since diagnosis I have moved to a wet food only diet. He's always been a Hills boy, so vet suggested m/d which he had for a bit. But this product has now been out of stock in South Africa for about six weeks, so I was advised to give w/d as alternative. I have also sourced some Royal Canin Diabetic wet food. I have been giving him both w/d and RC, supplemented with cooked chicken.

Until I started reading the diet info on this site I didn't realize w/d is such a high carb food, and this food makes no sense at all included on a low carb diet. With hindsight I can see that his BG has been higher when he has been fed w/d, and more stable on KC. I've now stopped w/d and so far (it's just been two days) I can see he's been much more steady on KC only. I also didn't realize that non-prescription foods were even an option!

My questions now:
1. Are there any other South Africans on this board who can advise on what they feed their diabetic cats in this country? I'm waiting for Hills m/d to come back in stock. Currently feeding just KC but it is terribly expensive and what happens if it is also not available? I want to explore non-prescription alternatives but there are so few options. With the imported brands its usually only the 'normal' versions available, not the special ones. I have been looking at locally made options. Thoughts on theses ones, or other suggestions?
- Montego Karoo: https://www.montego.co.za/karoo-all-breed-adult-cat-wet-food/
- Lokuno No Grain: http://www.lokuno.co.za/shop/produc...grain-cat-food-kibble-with-chicken-and-turkey
2. Do others feed their cats a selection of different foods? Noogi has always liked it when I go this, and as long as they are all low-carb, is this alright for diabetic cats? Or is better to stick to one brand/type?
3. What about canned fish, tuna and salmon? These are of course very low carb and Noogi loves them, but I haven't given him any of these since his diagnosis. Are they okay for diabetic cats?
I have found and am using the carb calculator, but not sure if carb content should be my only consideration.

TIA for any advice.
 
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Helen + Noogi said:
Hello from Cape Town, South Africa.

I'm Helen and my handsome boy is Noogi, aged 14. He was diagnosed in Oct/Nov last year after pancreatitis. Initially Noogi was being closely supervised by my primary vet, as well as a specialist vet, as he did not respond well to the first insulin he was on. We changed to Lantus and he wore a Free Style Libre for a couple weeks. His BG was all over the place for the first six or so weeks, although mostly very high. His dose was up to 4 units at one time, 3 for a few weeks and then down to 2, as his numbers began to settle down. It's all been going much better the last couple weeks.

I started home testing mid-December to have more info and control. I'm still mostly under supervision of my vet for dosage changes, but gaining my confidence to start fine-tuning things to manage him even better. Not yet following one of the two main protocols - still on a major learning curve, but encouraged that I'll get there. I've not yet set up a spreadsheet but plan to do so soon.

Noogi has had one hypo episode and a couple close calls that I averted with honey and high carb food. Although I have only just joined this site now I have been 'lurking' for a bit, and want to thank you for the info on here on hypos. When it happened I had my hypo kit ready and knew what to do. So grateful, thank you.

I really want to look at his food now. Since diagnosis I have moved to a wet food only diet. He's always been a Hills boy, so vet suggested m/d which he had for a bit. But this product has now been out of stock in South Africa for about six weeks, so I was advised to give w/d as alternative. I have also sourced some Royal Canin Diabetic wet food. I have been giving him both w/d and RC, supplemented with cooked chicken.

Until I started reading the diet info on this site I didn't realize w/d is such a high carb food, and this food makes no sense at all included on a low carb diet. With hindsight I can see that his BG has been higher when he has been fed w/d, and more stable on KC. I've now stopped w/d and so far (it's just been two days) I can see he's been much more steady on KC only. I also didn't realize that non-prescription foods were even an option!

My questions now:
1. Are there any other South Africans on this board who can advise on what they feed their diabetic cats in this country? I'm waiting for Hills m/d to come back in stock. Currently feeding just KC but it is terribly expensive and what happens if it is also not available? I want to explore non-prescription alternatives but there are so few options. With the imported brands its usually only the 'normal' versions available, not the special ones. I have been looking at locally made options. Thoughts on theses ones, or other suggestions?
- Montego Karoo: https://www.montego.co.za/karoo-all-breed-adult-cat-wet-food/
- Lokuno No Grain: http://www.lokuno.co.za/shop/produc...grain-cat-food-kibble-with-chicken-and-turkey
2. Do others feed their cats a selection of different foods? Noogi has always liked it when I go this, and as long as they are all low-carb, is this alright for diabetic cats? Or is better to stick to one brand/type?
3. What about canned fish, tuna and salmon? These are of course very low carb and Noogi loves them, but I haven't given him any of these since his diagnosis. Are they okay for diabetic cats?
I have found and am using the carb calculator, but not sure if carb content should be my only concern.

TIA for any advice.
Click to expand...
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Wendy&Neko
 
Helen + Noogi said:
https://www.montego.co.za/karoo-all-breed-adult-cat-wet-food/
Click to expand...

This one contains carrots or peas, and rice flour, all of which contain carbs, so I'm not sure what the actual carb percentage would be but we usually recommend avoiding foods that contain vegetables, fruits, starches (like potatoes and peas), grains (or grain flours) and I'm not sure what this means (Sensory: Gravy sauce and dextrose.) but anything in Gravy or sauce is usually higher carb and dextrose is sugar.

Helen + Noogi said:
Lokuno No Grain: http://www.lokuno.co.za/shop/produc...grain-cat-food-kibble-with-chicken-and-turkey
Click to expand...

There are only 3 low carb kibbles and I'm almost positive they wouldn't be available in S.A. Just because a food is advertised as "no grain" doesn't mean it's low carb. The manufacturers just replaced the grains with stuff like potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas or chickpeas, which can actually make it higher in carbs than the "grained" ones!

Helen + Noogi said:
I'm waiting for Hills m/d to come back in stock.
Click to expand...

The M/D is actually higher than we recommend. We want them eating foods that are less than 10% carbs and canned MD is about 13%

Helen + Noogi said:
2. Do others feed their cats a selection of different foods? Noogi has always liked it when I go this, and as long as they are all low-carb, is this alright for diabetic cats? Or is better to stick to one brand/type?
Click to expand...

Cats enjoy variety as much as we do!

Helen + Noogi said:
3. What about canned fish, tuna and salmon?
Click to expand...

These are fine as a treat, but human canned fish/tuna/salmon doesn't contain all the nutrients a cat needs. You could also use a little as a "topper" on other canned foods. We also try to limit seafood flavors to once or twice a week due to the problems with heavy metal contamination found in fish these days as well as they tend to be higher in phosphorus which is harder on kidneys.

I just did a Google search of "Canned cat foods in South Africa" and this is one that popped up. Foods "in aspic" or "in jelly" (or gelee) are usually low carb as well as foods that are "pates" or "mousse".
https://www.petheaven.co.za/cats/cat-food/kit-cat-chicken-mousse-tuna-toppers-cat-wet-food-80g.html

Looks like you can also get Weruva brands there. They are among the highest quality, lowest carb (and a lot are even low in phosphorus) and would be excellent choices. They also make "Cats in the Kitchen" and "B.F.F" foods. I don't know if this will open for you, but Weruva is one of the few manufacturers that lists the nutritional breakdown for every one of their foods on their website. You want to look for the M.E. values (Metabolized Energy)
https://www.weruva.com/pages/cat-nutritional-information

Purina usually has foods in every country but they're not always called the same name as they are in the US, but if you look for canned pates (no gravy or sauce) and check the ingredient list, you can usually find choices that are going to be low carb.

I think you can also get Whiskas in Jelly (not the ones in gravy) that are low carb.
 
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Chris & China (GA) said:
This one contains carrots or peas, and rice flour, all of which contain carbs, so I'm not sure what the actual carb percentage would be but we usually recommend avoiding foods that contain vegetables, fruits, grains (or grain flours) and I'm not sure what this means (Sensory: Gravy sauce and dextrose.) but anything in Gravy or sauce is usually higher carb and dextrose is sugar.



There are only 3 low carb kibbles and I'm almost positive they wouldn't be available in S.A. Just because a food is advertised as "no grain" doesn't mean it's low carb. The manufacturers just replaced the grains with stuff like potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas or chickpeas, which can actually make it higher in carbs than the "grained" ones!



The M/D is actually higher than we recommend. We want them eating foods that are less than 10% carbs and canned MD is about 13%



Cats enjoy variety as much as we do!



These are fine as a treat, but human canned fish/tuna/salmon doesn't contain all the nutrients a cat needs. You could also use a little as a "topper" on other canned foods. We also try to limit seafood flavors to once or twice a week due to the problems with heavy metal contamination found in fish these days as well as they tend to be higher in phosphorus which is harder on kidneys.

I just did a Google search of "Canned cat foods in South Africa" and this is one that popped up. Foods "in aspic" or "in jelly" (or gelee) are usually low carb as well as foods that are "pates" or "mousse".
https://www.petheaven.co.za/cats/cat-food/kit-cat-chicken-mousse-tuna-toppers-cat-wet-food-80g.html

Looks like you can also get Weruva brands there. They are among the highest quality, lowest carb (and a lot are even low in phosphorus) and would be excellent choices. They also make "Cats in the Kitchen" and "B.F.F" foods. I don't know if this will open for you, but Weruva is one of the few manufacturers that lists the nutritional breakdown for every one of their foods on their website. You want to look for the M.E. values (Metabolized Energy)
https://www.weruva.com/pages/cat-nutritional-information

Purina usually has foods in every country but they're not always called the same name as they are in the US, but if you look for canned pates (no gravy or sauce) and check the ingredient list, you can usually find choicehttp://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.htmls that are going to be low carb.
Click to expand...
Here is a carb calculator I use often, it can help you calculate carbs on the foods you choose:bighug::cat::cat:

Cat Food Nutrition Calculator | Elizabeth C Scheyder
 
@Helen + Noogi

if you tap on this link and look at post #32 I listed some Weruva pates for another member that's low carb/ low phosphorus with kitties withCKD
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-11-8-and-i-am-tired.283363/#post-3124085

You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts. This is where I was told where to look by a member


You can even check out the soulistic pates
https://www.soulisticpet.com/pate
When you click in one of the flavors then click on
COMPLETE NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION (link to page)
and look at the same two places like on the weruva
 
You could also consider feeding a raw or home cooked diet. We can point you to good reputable online recipes to follow. I'm not sure if you can get a pre-mix supplement such as Alnutrin sent over to South Africa but you should be able to source individual supplements from a natural health food / vitamin type store.
 
Thank you @CORKY @squeem3 @Chris & China (GA) @Diane Tyler's Mom GA for all your suggestions and useful links. Really appreciate the help!
I did some shopping today and managed to find some Weruva (only Classic and Cats in the Kitchen available in SA, and very expensive) and Kit Cat (the topper and the Complete Cousine) - I'll be giving them all a try.

I did make a mistake in my original post by linking to local brand Lokuno's dry food instead of the wet food.
Correct link for the wet food pouch: http://www.lokuno.co.za/shop/product/lokuno-cat-food/lokuno-no-grain-cat-food-wet-chicken
As per the carb calculator this one looks quite good, I think?
It is reasonably priced. Was sold out at the shop I went to, so will try to buy online.

Good to know supermarket brands in jelly are an option too.

Not sure I am ready to make my own raw food - storage is an issue as I only have a tiny freezer. Can't find any mention of Alnutrin being available here.
Is it something like this? https://kyronlabs.co.za/product/feli-vit/

I have been poaching chicken breast and adding it, shredded, with a tablespoon of the poaching water, to the tinned food, especially the ones that are more of a pate or mousse texture. He loves that.

Not sure it is going to be possible for me to feed him exclusively a diet with under 10 carb content. More realistic is a mix, with some of the prescription food (around 13/14) and lower carb food and cooked chicken. He's not fussy and seems to enjoy variety.

He eats before insulin, as well as second helpings couple hours after insulin, a smaller snacks at other times. He's eating more at night. Not great for my sleep as he knows he can put his face in mine and "eep" for food, and he usually gets it. Was 100% worse when his blood glucose was really high. It's not that ravenous hunger anymore now that his BG is better but he does think he can just demand a snack whenever he wants. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has given up saying no?
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
You should withhold feeding 2 hours before you take Noogi's BG in the AM and PM because you don't want it to be influenced by the food
Click to expand...

You are more than welcome this is why we are here for
Referring to the carb calculator you don’t need to buy one, just use the link I send you, place it in your computer’s favorites and you can download it on your phone as a google file I believe, I’m not very savvy at technology, I buy all of Corky’s and Coco’s food and litter I buy them at CHEWY.COM, so if I see a new flavor I might want to buy them I go the that food nutrients and calculate before I buy it, they have all brands of cat food and very very inexpensive, they sell the can food by a case of 24, so I buy for the month and no shipping charge, even the letter is $10. Less then the stores I use Pretty Litter, is a game changer litter 2 cats and a jumbo box, I use 1 bag every 3 weeks all I do is pick up the poop, down the toilet, and I know you are not in the US, but perhaps there’s another cat web site with better prices and I live in a quite large 1 bedroom Condo, the box is in the room, no one knows I have cats if is first time entering my house, no urine smell at all and no dust and minimal trail and detects many health issues by color change in the litter, GENIUS!:bighug::bighug::cat::cat::D
 
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Helen + Noogi said:
Not sure I am ready to make my own raw food - storage is an issue as I only have a tiny freezer. Can't find any mention of Alnutrin being available here.
Is it something like this? https://kyronlabs.co.za/product/feli-vit/
Click to expand...


Sort of. A pre-mix contains all the essential vitamins and minerals to turn plain meat (raw or cooked) into a complete diet. A lot of the pre-mxies available in the US and Europe are likely not available in South Africa and shipping may be too costly. You would have to follow a recipe for homemade food and buy individual supplements. Not all online recipes are good for one reason or another (not nutritionally balanced, too many useless fillers like veggies, strange ingredients, etc). Catinfo.org has a god recipe for raw food which I'm sure you can use with cooked plain meat as well. You can take a look to get an idea of what supplements are needed: https://catinfo.org/making-cat-food/ Water, eggs, fish oil, iodized salt, and a few vitamins are easily obtained in most countries.

I have been poaching chicken breast and adding it, shredded, with a tablespoon of the poaching water, to the tinned food, especially the ones that are more of a pate or mousse texture. He loves that.
Click to expand...

Poached chicken is good as a treat :)
 
Helen + Noogi said:
Is it something like this? https://kyronlabs.co.za/product/feli-vit/
Click to expand...

No, that is just a supplement, not a meal completer.

Here are some I found in the UK. https://www.aniforte.co.uk/products/barf-complete-cat-raw-food-supplement-100g

This place also offers frozen raw diets as well as a raw meat supplement (one with calcium if you're using boneless meat, one without calcium if you're grinding bones or using egg shell calcium) https://www.kiezebrink.co.uk/category/166-raw-cat-food

Here is another: https://www.purrform.co.uk/purrform-complete-supplement-100g/

There's also one called Raw Aid I saw on Amazon UK but it wasn't available there right now.
 
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