New Member - Going Crazy

Status
Not open for further replies.
Heather & Ducote

Heather & Ducote

Member Since 2020
Hello. My cat was diagnosed on 5/08/20. I have been going nuts trying to regulate his numbers with no avail. I am not eating, not sleeping, researching day and night (this board has been a God send!), and I have a knot in my stomach at all times :(. My cat lost lots of weight, started drinking heavily, staying hungry, and urinating a lot. I took him to the vet for bloodwork and they said his glucose was close to 500 and gave me Vestulin 1u twice a day. I went home and ordered a glucose monitor. It came in on 5/19/20 and I started home testing. I was shocked at his numbers! I immediately made changes at home. I picked up all dry food and now feed him Fancy Feast twice a day with his doses and I used his glucose readings to change insulin doses. I did try to talk to my vet about changing doses but they are proving to be very unhelpful (I left three messages on 5/20 with no return call. I called back on 5/21 and finally spoke to someone who told me to email them my data and she would get back to me. I completed an at-home glucose curve the next day and emailed her all of the data but no response yet. I am winging this on my own). I know that it is still early but am beginning to become hopeless about ever getting him regulated. I am scared because his numbers stay "HI" for most of the day. I plugged my numbers into the spreadsheet for review. Could it be the Vestulin? Should I inquire about Lantus? Am I not giving enough time between switching doses? Am I freaking out for nothing or are all cats hard to regulate at first?
 
Welcome!!

I’ll let others more experienced talk about insulin and dosage. I’ll just say this, it takes time. I know it sucks and we want a quick fix but that’s just not how diabetes works. It took over 6 months for me, but it will be a lot less for you I promise because you’re already doing so many right things like testing and being here and I was clueless for too long. As many say here, feline diabetes is a marathon not a sprint. It does and it will get better I also promise you that. Minnie also lost a ton of weight and had severe neuropathy and now she’s dealing with other issues but the diabetes and the neuropathy were both regulated so there’s hope and you just have to be patient and know you’re doing your best and you’re doing an awesome job, especially by questioning the vet! :bighug:

hang on for more comments and welcome again!
 
YOU HAVE FOUND THE best place to help you help your Ducote!
WELCOME TO FDMB! Your kitty didnt come down with diabetes in a day and he woulnt be regulated in a day. Like Ale said its going to take time. You've already set up your spreadsheet (way above what I had done back in the day!) Once some of our experts get to your post they will help you with the dosing. The most important thing you have done is you've found us. ;)

Again welcome to the best darn site on the planet with practical help for Ducote. :bighug:
:coffee:
 
Thank you both! This is so scary and it is a little better to know that I am not alone! I agree that this forum is amazing, I have learned so much. Yesterday alone I spent 8 hours combing through posts and I can't seem to stop today either.

I know that regulation takes time but at the beginning were your numbers steadily super high as well? How long did it take to see any change at all? If is numbers were fluctuating I think that I would feel a little more at ease.
 
HDucote said:
Thank you both! This is so scary and it is a little better to know that I am not alone! I agree that this forum is amazing, I have learned so much. Yesterday alone I spent 8 hours combing through posts and I can't seem to stop today either.

I know that regulation takes time but at the beginning were your numbers steadily super high as well? How long did it take to see any change at all? If is numbers were fluctuating I think that I would feel a little more at ease.
Click to expand...

It’s hard to say especially because I wasn’t home testing her from the get go and also every cat is different ECID I know that’s not the answer you want to hear but it’s true :oops:
 
Last edited:
HDucote said:
Hello. My cat was diagnosed on 5/08/20. I have been going nuts trying to regulate his numbers with no avail. I am not eating, not sleeping, researching day and night (this board has been a God send!), and I have a knot in my stomach at all times :(. My cat lost lots of weight, started drinking heavily, staying hungry, and urinating a lot. I took him to the vet for bloodwork and they said his glucose was close to 500 and gave me Vestulin 1u twice a day. I went home and ordered a glucose monitor. It came in on 5/19/20 and I started home testing. I was shocked at his numbers! I immediately made changes at home. I picked up all dry food and now feed him Fancy Feast twice a day with his doses and I used his glucose readings to change insulin doses. I did try to talk to my vet about changing doses but they are proving to be very unhelpful (I left three messages on 5/20 with no return call. I called back on 5/21 and finally spoke to someone who told me to email them my data and she would get back to me. I completed an at-home glucose curve the next day and emailed her all of the data but no response yet. I am winging this on my own). I know that it is still early but am beginning to become hopeless about ever getting him regulated. I am scared because his numbers stay "HI" for most of the day. I plugged my numbers into the spreadsheet for review. Could it be the Vestulin? Should I inquire about Lantus? Am I not giving enough time between switching doses? Am I freaking out for nothing or are all cats hard to regulate at first?
Click to expand...
I just wanted to add you are being a Great Mom but your Vet not helping does not Help this at all and does nothing but Frustrates the learning process . The members here are so Knowledgeable and kind they can guide you . So deep breath and if you just need to talk feel free anytime Roe
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Feeding twice a day is very old school, especially for a cat that needs to gain the weight lost.
Read the section on feeding in the Beginners Guide mentioned above. Vetsulin drops a cat fast and hard. Some snacks during the first part of the cycle help.
Click to expand...




Thanks! I was worried about feeding too much since his numbers were staying so high. On Vestulin he drops about 4 hrs after the first dose but it is not a big drop (in the 500's) and then he is right back up a couple hours later. Should I give him a three meals a day or go with a snack here and there?
 
HDucote said:
Thanks! I was worried about feeding too much since his numbers were staying so high. On Vestulin he drops about 4 hrs after the first dose but it is not a big drop (in the 500's) and then he is right back up a couple hours later. Should I give him a three meals a day or go with a snack here and there?
Click to expand...
Snacks, especially early in the cycle are best. Some people do not feed during that last part of the cycle when the insulin is starting to wear off. Just make sure you do not feed for the last 2 hours of the cycle. You do not want your test at the start of the next cycle to be influenced by food.

From: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.186099/

FEEDING SCHEDULES - CANINSULIN (VETSULIN)
Do not be tempted to reduce the amount of your cat’s food in hopes that this will reduce her overall BG levels. This could be detrimental to your cat’s health. Your cat needs to eat an appropriate amount of food for her size and weight. There are certain circumstances, however, when it is helpful to temporarily withhold food (or rather, to delay feeding): these circumstances are explained further down this section.

  • There are particular considerations when using faster-acting insulins such as Caninsulin (Vetsulin), - especially for newcomers or for those with little or no data about how their cat responds. This is because the insulin can sometimes drop the BG fast in the first few hours of the cycle.
  • It can be a good idea to feed your cat 20 - 30 minutes before giving insulin. This ensures there is food on board for when the insulin starts to work. So, the sequence would be: 1. Test BG. 2. Feed. 3. Wait 20 - 30 mins. 4. Give the insulin shot. (If you are not yet home testing it is still advisable to feed and then wait before giving the shot).
  • Some caregivers feed a snack (or part of the main meal) an hour and a half to two hours after the shot, to slow down the rate at which the BG is dropping.
  • If you can determine when your cat's nadir (lowest BG) typically occurs during a 12-hour cycle, you can try to make food available at that time. Timed feeders can be helpful for folks who can’t be there in person to feed their cat.
  • ‘Bouncing’: If the BG drops too fast this may be sensed as ‘dangerous’ by the body whether the cat is actually in danger or not. (‘Too fast’ could mean faster than 100 mg/dL [5.5 mmol/L] per hour - although the ‘trigger’ number varies from cat to cat.) When this happens the body may seek to protect itself by releasing stored glucose, thereby raising the BG to a much higher level. We call this ‘bouncing’ - a common phenomenon - and bouncing can happen when the BG drops too fast and/or too low. As said above, it may be possible to slow down the rate that the BG is dropping by feeding a snack. It may also be that a dose reduction is appropriate. DO post on the Main Health forum if you need further advice
  • Some caregivers using Caninsulin (Vetsulin) withhold food for the second half of the cycle, to slow down the rate at which the BG rises as the effect of the insulin wears off. If your cat’s BG rises fast after the peak of the cycle you may find this technique useful.
  • In any case it can be helpful, if possible, to withhold food for the two hours prior to a pre-shot BG test. This is just to ensure that the test result is a ‘true’ reading and isn’t influenced by food.


Q: Why is my cat so hungry?
When initially diagnosed your cat may behave like she is starving. That’s because prolonged high BG, and insufficient insulin, make it hard for her body to utilise her food. Once her BG is under better control her appetite should return to normal.
Your cat may need feeding more than twice a day. Many cats do well on a number of smaller meals fed throughout the day. Some cats can be ‘free fed’ for much of the time.

Multi-cat households
It can be helpful to get all cats in a household onto diabetic-friendly food if possible. The best diet for diabetic cats is great for most non-diabetics too.
 
HI! Welcome to FDMB! I want to start by saying you are doing an AWESOME JOB by being so proactive, researching, and most of all, home testing. I did not home test the first six weeks, and once I did start, I wished I had started right away!! Testing helped me take a breath and not be scared she was going to low, and really helped me figure out how to help her. I also want to repeat what others have said, and that is that it is a MARATHON.

OK... food... feed him as much as he needs. DIabetic cats that are unregulated cannot properly utilize the nutrients in the food, so they are starving even if they are eating. Just no food at least 2 hours prior to the preshot test so the numbers are accurate.

Looking at his spreadsheet I can see why you are so concerned. it's scary to see those black numbers. If you don't already have them, get either keosticks to test for ketones in urine or get a ketone reading meter... it works the same as a glucose meter but measures ketones. This is what I use because I can never catch my cat in the litterbox. I got the keto mojo on amazon, but you can read reviews or just keosticks that you dip in urine at the pharmacy.

good job picking up the dry food. NOOO more of that, and no treats like temptations or party mix either. Is the fancy feast you are feeding the pate kind? No gravy foods.

I would stick with the 3.5 for a few more cycles, then raise to 4 on monday morning then hold that dose a few cycles. I think your cat is stuck in glucose toxcitity and you need to find the breakthrough dose. He's probably been high for a very long time and is kind of stuck.

If it makes you feel better I didn't see any numbers under 300 for over 2.5 months, but once I found his breakthrough dose (for me it was 3 units) it started to come down, and at 4 months my cat went into remission for a year before coming back out because of a pituitary tumor (making her a high dose kitty). Not all cats get into remission but I can tell you that they can live long HEALTHY lives with diabetes. My cat has been diabetic 4 years as of this month. :)

Do you have a copy of the bloodwork at all? I'm wondering if there's some kind of underlying infection raising the numbers.
 
Thank you for the detailed response! As far as food, I looked through the food chart on found on this website and bought a variety of Fancy Feast that fell around 7% carbs. I think you are right about him being high for some time. He was gradually losing weight but we had introduced a second kitty so we thought that it was stress induced weight loss. By the time the other symptoms started appearing and I put two and two together, 6 months or more had passed :(. I haven't heard of glucose toxicity before but I will surely look that up now. Thank you for the dosing advice, I think that it sounds like a good plan! I do not have the bloodwork. I brought him in during the COVID restrictions so I had to sit in my car during his visit and they just brought him out to me with the meds and told me that his blood sugar was "almost 500" and to give him 1 unit twice a day. I had thought about infections messing with his levels as well but about three weeks before the diagnosis appointment I brought him in due to the potty accidents thinking that he had a bladder infection. The doctor didn't do bloodwork because my cat was overly stressed but he did give him an antibiotic shot that he said would clear up any underlining problems.
 
My vet was pretty much unhelpful also. He gave me the insulin (prozinc) and needles. Told me to give 2 units and sent me on my way. No follow up visits nothing. I too had to wing it. I found this message board and am starting to see better numbers. This didnt happen over night. If you look at his SS you will see he is a very bouncy boy. But just this week he cleared a bounce in 1 day and is now giving more good numbers. This is because of the special people that give their time to help us learn the sugar dance.
 
HDucote said:
Thank you for the detailed response! As far as food, I looked through the food chart on found on this website and bought a variety of Fancy Feast that fell around 7% carbs. I think you are right about him being high for some time. He was gradually losing weight but we had introduced a second kitty so we thought that it was stress induced weight loss. By the time the other symptoms started appearing and I put two and two together, 6 months or more had passed :(. I haven't heard of glucose toxicity before but I will surely look that up now. Thank you for the dosing advice, I think that it sounds like a good plan! I do not have the bloodwork. I brought him in during the COVID restrictions so I had to sit in my car during his visit and they just brought him out to me with the meds and told me that his blood sugar was "almost 500" and to give him 1 unit twice a day. I had thought about infections messing with his levels as well but about three weeks before the diagnosis appointment I brought him in due to the potty accidents thinking that he had a bladder infection. The doctor didn't do bloodwork because my cat was overly stressed but he did give him an antibiotic shot that he said would clear up any underlining problems.
Click to expand...
They don't usually give you the lab reports unless you ask for them. I always call and ask them to EMAIL the labs to me, which they always do. So maybe just call them up and ask for them to email them to you so you can have a record at home. The antibiotic shot isn't very effective for UTI unfortunately... Oral antibiotics are more effective, SO it could very well be that there IS an underlying infection... which would show as a high white blood cell count in the labs. With numbers this high though, i want to stress again to keep measuring ketones. Anything over a trace is an emergency and would require a vet visit. I also suggest adding extra water to the food. I always put at least 2 oz of water mixed in with the food to help keep her hydrated.
 
Buddy’s Ma said:
You are not alone, I’ve felt like I’ve been losing my mind (quite literally) all week.
Click to expand...


I just can't shake it :( I try to think about other things but I am so worried. And my hubby does not have a bond with our cat (even though we have had him for 11 years) because the cat is only nice to me. So I hear a lot of unhelpful remarks about my worrying and about what he would do if it were up to him, blah blah blah. I am also stressing because we have a two week trip out of town scheduled starting 6/8 (it has been planned for almost a year) and we are planning on boarding the cat at the vet (but my trust in them is slowly going down hill). I just don't want to leave him right now and I fear that the trip is going to be one big ball of anxiety. I stay awake at night thinking about what I would do if I got a call when I am out of state that something horrible happened :nailbiting:. I know that I need to take this one day at a time but I sure would feel better if I could at least see one good reading at some point :(
 
@Deb & Wink Hi Deb if you get a chance, I know you are busy , could you take a look @HDucote spreadsheet . Even when Tyler was on vetsulin he was never ever this high, so I really don't know how to help her. Thank you so much Deb.
I can't remember anyone to tag that might have had their cat on vetsulin
Thanks again. I just feel so bad for this kitty being this high for so long
 
HDucote said:
I just can't shake it :( I try to think about other things but I am so worried. And my hubby does not have a bond with our cat (even though we have had him for 11 years) because the cat is only nice to me. So I hear a lot of unhelpful remarks about my worrying and about what he would do if it were up to him, blah blah blah. I am also stressing because we have a two week trip out of town scheduled starting 6/8 (it has been planned for almost a year) and we are planning on boarding the cat at the vet (but my trust in them is slowly going down hill). I just don't want to leave him right now and I fear that the trip is going to be one big ball of anxiety. I stay awake at night thinking about what I would do if I got a call when I am out of state that something horrible happened :nailbiting:. I know that I need to take this one day at a time but I sure would feel better if I could at least see one good reading at some point :(
Click to expand...

100% get. this.

I’ve developed slight agoraphobia and hate leaving the house now. I’ve been planning how to train Buddy to travel with me if this doesn’t go into remission. If Taylor Swift can travel with her cat in that cool cat backpack, dammit, so can I.

Do whatever you feel is right for you. Maybe start interviewing pet sitters instead? Or look at postponing if possible - covid prob isn’t making travelling the most fun right now anyway!

At the end of the day trips come and go, but our fur babies are one of a kind.
 
Sharon14 said:
Great! One thing you may want to do while he’s in such high numbers is to check for ketones. You can get the urine test strips at any pharmacy.
Have you read the vetsulin guide?
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.186099/
I see you’re in La, What part? I was born and raised in BR and NOLA, and now live in Ms just north of NO
Click to expand...

How to check for ketones? I have bought the ketone test strips but how to get the urine from the cat?

Can I put the scooped litter in a cup, pour some water, and then use the ketone strip to test?
 
Liang & Nathan said:
How to check for ketones? I have bought the ketone test strips but how to get the urine from the cat?

Can I put the scooped litter in a cup, pour some water, and then use the ketone strip to test?
Click to expand...
I was told to use a spoon . I found that if I took a disposable coffee cup and cut it down to the bottom rim leaving a little edge I could slide it under her real quick .
 
Liang & Nathan said:
How to check for ketones? I have bought the ketone test strips but how to get the urine from the cat?

Can I put the scooped litter in a cup, pour some water, and then use the ketone strip to test?
Click to expand...
No that will not work. You need to catch some fresh urine BEFORE it soaks into the litter.
Catching and Testing Urine link with lots of ideas.

Or you can buy a separate meter that tests the blood for ketones. More real time accuracy, when you test the blood for ketones instead of the urine, which is hours old before it exits your cat.
 
Liang & Nathan said:
How to check for ketones? I have bought the ketone test strips but how to get the urine from the cat?

Can I put the scooped litter in a cup, pour some water, and then use the ketone strip to test?
Click to expand...
No you can't add water

Urine Ketone Testing
keto-stix (which measure urine ketones only). These are available in any pharmacy or chemist, and are not expensive.

To use the urine strips, the best thing to do is to try and place them under the urine stream as your cat is urinating – this can take some practice! Some people have had success putting a ladle or long handled spoon under their cat as it is urinating. Some say crinkle up something like foil where they pee to collect it

The urine does need to be fresh to give accurate results.

It is very important to count off the exact number of seconds indicated in the instructions of the Keto-stix you have purchased. Reading the results too soon will give falsely low results…. Waiting too long will give false high results.It must be read in 15 seconds

Results are read by comparing the colour on the test strip with the colour on the canister:

 
Last edited:
HDucote said:
I am also stressing because we have a two week trip out of town scheduled starting 6/8 (it has been planned for almost a year) and we are planning on boarding the cat at the vet (but my trust in them is slowly going down hill).
Click to expand...

Can you take him with you? It took me awhile, but I finally got China comfortable in the car and from then on, when I needed to go out of town, she came with me. Nobody will take care of your cat like you will was my motto!

If it's absolutely not possible, there are many petsitting services out there. Some come to your home, others take the animal into their home. Some come a certain number of times per day, some will stay in your home the whole time (which can be good for keeping break-ins from happening due to the house obviously being empty)

Search for "petsitters near (your town)" and you should find some options. You can interview them, bring them into your home to see how they get along with your cat(s) as well as getting a better feel for them.
 
HDucote said:
Thank you for the detailed response! As far as food, I looked through the food chart on found on this website and bought a variety of Fancy Feast that fell around 7% carbs. I think you are right about him being high for some time. He was gradually losing weight but we had introduced a second kitty so we thought that it was stress induced weight loss. By the time the other symptoms started appearing and I put two and two together, 6 months or more had passed :(. I haven't heard of glucose toxicity before but I will surely look that up now. Thank you for the dosing advice, I think that it sounds like a good plan! I do not have the bloodwork. I brought him in during the COVID restrictions so I had to sit in my car during his visit and they just brought him out to me with the meds and told me that his blood sugar was "almost 500" and to give him 1 unit twice a day. I had thought about infections messing with his levels as well but about three weeks before the diagnosis appointment I brought him in due to the potty accidents thinking that he had a bladder infection. The doctor didn't do bloodwork because my cat was overly stressed but he did give him an antibiotic shot that he said would clear up any underlining problems.
Click to expand...
Could you add to your signature what kind of meter you are using
 
Ducote's SS kind of reminds me of @Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man and her cat Tiger. You need to keep upping the dose with some frequency until you get out of those black numbers.

Here is Tiger's SS when he first started getting insulin. <<<<< Just click on the blue text to the left there, to open his SS. He was started on Prozinc first, as Jacque already had another diabetic cat that was using Prozinc. Moved him to Vetsulin, where we even had her try TID dosing which is really hard on the caregiver, then back to Prozinc, then on to Levemir where Tiger is doing much better.

Prodigy, talking human glucometer. This does need to go in your User Id Signature when you get a chance.

Does Ducote have access to any other pet's food? Might he be eating that without your knowledge, or even getting into some type of human food unbeknownst to you? You said you have a second kitty. Is that second cat also being fed the low carb Fancy Feast food?

Did you find the Sticky Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin) in our ISG forum for
Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH ?

You probably want to print that guide out, to have as a reference and to study it and ask questions.

 
Deb & Wink said:
No that will not work. You need to catch some fresh urine BEFORE it soaks into the litter.
Catching and Testing Urine link with lots of ideas.

Or you can buy a separate meter that tests the blood for ketones. More real time accuracy, when you test the blood for ketones instead of the urine, which is hours old before it exits your cat.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I think getting a ketone blood meter should be easier than catching the cat's urine.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
No you can't add water

Urine Ketone Testing
keto-stix (which measure urine ketones only). These are available in any pharmacy or chemist, and are not expensive.

To use the urine strips, the best thing to do is to try and place them under the urine stream as your cat is urinating – this can take some practice! Some people have had success putting a ladle or long handled spoon under their cat as it is urinating. Some say crinkle up something like foil where they pee to collect it

The urine does need to be fresh to give accurate results.

It is very important to count off the exact number of seconds indicated in the instructions of the Keto-stix you have purchased. Reading the results too soon will give falsely low results…. Waiting too long will give false high results.It must be read in 15 seconds

Results are read by comparing the colour on the test strip with the colour on the canister:

Click to expand...

Thank you. Plan to get a ketone blood meter. Any recommendation?
 
Deb & Wink said:
Ducote's SS kind of reminds me of @Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man and her cat Tiger. You need to keep upping the dose with some frequency until you get out of those black numbers.

Here is Tiger's SS when he first started getting insulin. <<<<< Just click on the blue text to the left there, to open his SS. He was started on Prozinc first, as Jacque already had another diabetic cat that was using Prozinc. Moved him to Vetsulin, where we even had her try TID dosing which is really hard on the caregiver, then back to Prozinc, then on to Levemir where Tiger is doing much better.

Prodigy, talking human glucometer. This does need to go in your User Id Signature when you get a chance.

Does Ducote have access to any other pet's food? Might he be eating that without your knowledge, or even getting into some type of human food unbeknownst to you? You said you have a second kitty. Is that second cat also being fed the low carb Fancy Feast food?

Did you find the Sticky Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin) in our ISG forum for
Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH ?

You probably want to print that guide out, to have as a reference and to study it and ask questions.
Click to expand...
Thank you Deb
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Deb & Wink Hi Deb if you get a chance, I know you are busy , could you take a look @HDucote spreadsheet . Even when Tyler was on vetsulin he was never ever this high, so I really don't know how to help her. Thank you so much Deb.
I can't remember anyone to tag that might have had their cat on vetsulin
Thanks again. I just feel so bad for this kitty being this high for so long
Click to expand...
Thank you Deb
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top