New member, Footfoot, Sept 8th

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HelenR

HelenR

Member Since 2022
Hi all, my cat Footfoot has just been diagnosed. I went for my diabetic induction consultation today at the vets, except we only really did half of it. The vet had left a prescription for insulin, and a bag of syringes, but we hadn't even discussed treatment options yet and the nurse (who was going to train me in insulin delivery) didn't really know what to tell me. I was still uncertain whether we had to go straight for insulin or could take a dietary approach...
Later I spoke to the vet on the phone, and yes, we're going to go ahead with insulin, and I will go back tomorrow for the second half of the induction.
Meanwhile I've ordered a glucometer (GlucoNavii) and testing strips, which should arrive Friday or Saturday. I've looked into sourcing insulin from one of the main pet-drugs-online sites in the UK, for about half the price that my vet will sell it to me... ditto syringes. My dilemma is whether to pay the vet's extortionate prices tomorrow, so that I'll have all I need right away - or risk waiting another few days till I can obtain it all online. Does anyone have thoughts on that? Footfoot isn't quite herself - she has a urinary infection, but is on day 2 of anti-biotics now - but still playful, still purry, and still eating plenty. Can I risk a few more days before starting insulin, or should I just pay up?
Lastly, I want to get keto urine testing strips - will ordinary human ones do?
Thanks so much for you wonderful people who have created this forum, I've found lots of info here and on a few Facebook groups. What would we do without the internet?!
 
I just read the welcome email AFTER posting - so I've changed the subject heading, hopefully I've done that correctly now :)
 
JuST saw your post and wanted to say welcome. Youll learn so much here and make lots of friends. I'm in the states so not sure on UK but there are people on here from the UK that can advise you better. I do know you can use the human urine keto sticks or you can get a meter and test ketones by blood. Poor kitty! Sounds like she's been through so much. She's adorable!
 
HelenR said:
Hi all, my cat Footfoot has just been diagnosed. I went for my diabetic induction consultation today at the vets, except we only really did half of it. The vet had left a prescription for insulin, and a bag of syringes, but we hadn't even discussed treatment options yet and the nurse (who was going to train me in insulin delivery) didn't really know what to tell me. I was still uncertain whether we had to go straight for insulin or could take a dietary approach...
Later I spoke to the vet on the phone, and yes, we're going to go ahead with insulin, and I will go back tomorrow for the second half of the induction.
Meanwhile I've ordered a glucometer (GlucoNavii) and testing strips, which should arrive Friday or Saturday. I've looked into sourcing insulin from one of the main pet-drugs-online sites in the UK, for about half the price that my vet will sell it to me... ditto syringes. My dilemma is whether to pay the vet's extortionate prices tomorrow, so that I'll have all I need right away - or risk waiting another few days till I can obtain it all online. Does anyone have thoughts on that? Footfoot isn't quite herself - she has a urinary infection, but is on day 2 of anti-biotics now - but still playful, still purry, and still eating plenty. Can I risk a few more days before starting insulin, or should I just pay up?
Lastly, I want to get keto urine testing strips - will ordinary human ones do?
Thanks so much for you wonderful people who have created this forum, I've found lots of info here and on a few Facebook groups. What would we do without the internet?!
Click to expand...
@FrostD
 
HelenR said:
've looked into sourcing insulin from one of the main pet-drugs-online sites in the UK, for about half the price that my vet will sell it to me... ditto syringes. My dilemma is whether to pay the vet's extortionate prices tomorrow,
Click to expand...
Hi I'm not from the UK but found this
https://www.animeddirect.co.uk/prozinc-40-iu-ml-suspension-for-injection-for-cats-dogs-10ml
This is a temperature controlled product and is dispatched by courier. Please ensure someone is at the delivery address to sign for the delivery.

This product is dispatched in a chill pack to keep it at the correct temperature and should be stored upright in a refrigerator.
 
So normally we'd say diet change first, then insulin - assuming no ketones. But with a concurrent UTI, ketones are a risk if she is diabetic.

We see a fair amount of misdiagnoses caused by UTIs.

I'm guessing you've already given insulin today? Did they test BG at the vet?
 
Ok, quite high. I suspect that's influenced quite a bit by current food.

Here's what we'll do - do not do any diet change yet. Start the insulin tomorrow, and when your testing supplies arrive you'll want to focus on testing before the shots. You did not mention which insulin, but if it's Caninsulin you will want to test around 3 to 5 hours after the shot, and if it's ProZinc 4 to 6 hours after the shot. That will give us an idea of how low the insulin dose is taking her.

If you get a number below 90 mg/dL (5mmol) you will reduce by 0.25U.

If your preshot test is below 11.1 stall without feeding and ask us for advice. Be sure to fast her for 2 hours before the shot, just so we can get a consistent data point. No other tests have to be fasting.

Once you have a week's worth of good data and are comfortable testing, we'll look to do diet change. In the meantime be sure to check ketones about 3x a week.
 
Hi FrostD, thanks so much for the advice, that's really helpful! Even though I got my spreadsheet ready, I still didn't really know how to begin this process.
I did give her a little tuna and a tiny amount of raw chicken today - she has developed a very annoyingly-timed aversion to the Hills d/d, who knows why. She eats some and then leaves most of it scattered around. She's ignoring most of it, yet at her next meal, will eat a little of what is newly put out...
We've been adding a little tuna (in spring water) for the last few weeks, because I was away working for most of August (home at weekends) and my husband can't get tablets down her throat, so he smuggled them into some tuna, which luckily, she loves. So I guess we'll continue with that - mostly Hills d/d, but a couple of teaspoons of tuna per day as well.
The chicken, I just gave her a couple of tiny pieces today while I was cooking, to see if she liked raw chicken - she does! I had seen that some cats don't find raw meat appealing. I was curious because, in order to lower the carbs in her diet, I'm considering raw meat. She has a lot of food allergies, so most commercial cat foods won't work, given they have so many different ingredients. I know she can eat venison and duck, as they have both been the main ingredient in Hills d/d at different times. So, when we come to changing her diet, I'm considering raw meat, because it will hugely simplify the process, given her allergies. Raw, or steamed - but crucially, unadulterated meat, though I may also need to add some bone/nutrient powders to give her the full nutritional range.
 
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/raw-feeding-senior-kitties.248460/

That is a pretty good discussion on raw feeding ^
Raw feeding is definitely not as intimidating as it seems, if you have the time for it. Due to Mr Kitty's health problems I had to raw feed for a bit, but he eventually would not eat it anymore (I suspect because he associated it with all the medications and feeling unwell, etc).

As for food, if you can, I would save the raw for snacks after the 6 hr post-shot mark. Reason being, without testing yet we won't know how low she's going. The higher carb d/d will help offset any huge drops in BG and help keep her safe. Raw is minimal carbs, so feeding that while the insulin is kicking in or at it's strongest may lead to very large drops and potentially unsafe BG. This recommendation is just for now, as an extra precaution until the testing is up and running.
 
Thanks, FrostD. My problem right now, though, is that she's gone off the Hill's d/d so dramatically that she is only picking at it. I guess I need to quickly find some other equivalently carb-laden food that she will eat and which doesn't set off her allergies (this whole thing is so complicated, as I've only found 2 commercial foods, up to now, that she can eat without reaction: Hills d/d, and Lovebug, both of which she liked but went off). :-/
 
Not necessarily...your other option is to start at something conservative like 0.5U. I personally would feel better at 0.25U since the diet can have a huge effect and I always worry about UTIs leading to misdiagnoses...but the flipside of giving a smaller dose is possibly risking ketones. Have to decide what you are comfortable with.

I would not fight a food transition if she wants it, just reduce dose.
 
The Hill's food is not diabetes friendly. The canned varieties are over 15% carbohydrate and if you're feeding the dry version, it's even higher in carbs. We consider a food to be low carb if it is under 10% and most of the members tend to feed their cat food that's around 5%. This is a link to foods that are available in the UK.

A raw diet is fine. However, you need to make sure that you are supplementing raw food in order for it to be nutritionally complete. There are supplements, like taurine, that are essential for cats. If you want more information on feline nutrition and instructions for a home made raw diet, this website has a great deal of information.

I'm tagging one of our members who's from the UK. (@Elizabeth and Bertie) She's a true resource for navigating feline diabetes for our UK members.
 
Thanks Sienne! Yes, I want to get her off the d/d and she has gone off it anyway, so that helps. I have a number of separate problems with her food just now:
- I need her to eat reliably at the right times, so I know she'll eat after I give her insulin. I think we have cracked that for the moment: Hills d/d with tuna smooshed into it, about half and half. She ate it with relish earlier, at least.
- I need to have a store of high carb snacks, in case she shows signs of a hypo. Luckily the Hill's d/d should do for that - though I've also found some Wainwright's 'bite size semi-moist treats' which seem to be 47% carbs, if I used the converter correctly!
- I want to move her onto a low-carb diet as soon as healthily possible, considering those two previous points, and lastly
- she has food allergies, so I'm looking at foods with minimal ingredient lists.
Thanks for tips about raw diet. I'm not really wedded to the idea of raw, I just want minimal ingredients because of her allergies, so I know what is or isn't giving her a reaction. Having looked into what's available, I think it's better to find foods which are 'complete' cat food but with few ingredients. E.g., 'Blink! Flaked tuna fillets': contains tuna, fish broth, vitamins and minerals, and says it is a 'complete' food.
 
Hi Helen, waving from Surrey! :bighug:

I see you've had some great advice.
Just on the foods, and for when you can more safely switch to lower carb... I understand that Footfoot has allergies. Do you know what she's allergic to? ...In the food list in my signature some of the foods are 'single protein'. These foods have 'single protein' written in blue against the name of the food in the first column on the list. ...Some folks have found the Mjamjam foods available on Amazon quite useful. These include protein sources such as duck, venison & rabbit, and horse...

Regarding Footfoot's infection, and as already mentioned in the posts above, it's important to be aware that infection can elevate blood glucose. And the blood glucose may come down as the infection resolves. This may mean that less insulin is needed....
It's great that you've ordered a glucose meter! Hometesting is the best way to help keep kitties safe while on insulin.

Well done for setting up a spreadsheet! It would be great if you could also add a wee note in the 'comments' section about what food Footfoot is eating. Keeping a record of foods may help to make it easier to spot which foods make blood glucose higher or lower, and/or, which foods Footfoot is sensitive or allergic to.
It sounds like you're doing a great job, and Footfoot is very lucky to have you in his corner. :cat:

Eliz
 
Hi Elizabeth, thanks so much! No, I don't really know what Footfoot is allergic to - every commercially formulated food bar Hill's d/d and Lovebug seemed to give her a skin flare-up. I didn't realise how high carb those foods were! :-o
For the moment I'm giving her the Hill's d/d mixed with tuna - she eats every last bit of the d/d if I smoosh it around with a bit of tuna, ha! I also learned from so many helpful people here, and on the Facebook UK Feline Diabetes Support group, that plain fish is not a complete food. So I'm looking at some other short-ingredient-list foods from the UK Low Carb Food list and trying to find something that is more of a complete food, but still low carb, to mix with the d/d.
 
I tried the ketone urine test strips - well, I tried ONE - I just couldn't see the difference between the 'negative' and 'trace' colours, in practice, so decided it was a bit useless. I have now got hold of a ketone blood testing gadget, the test strips will arrive tomorrow, so I can keep an eye on that.
Thanks for drawing my attention to the Mjamjam foods, I'll take a look.
 
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