New Member - Feeling disappointed but not hopeless.

Status
Not open for further replies.
CheshireKitten

CheshireKitten

Member Since 2023
Hello all,

Meet my little buddy Avery.

IMG20231011002251.jpg


Avery was diagnosed with diabetes around 4 weeks ago. Beforehand, he had lost a significant amount of weight (down to 5.5 lbs) which was nearly half of his previous weight from 2022 10 lbs. We had initially thought it was just aging, summer loss of appetite but taking him to the vet confirmed his blood sugar as being high. He was also dehydrated, lethargic and his appetite was ravenous. He was started on insulin (ProZinc) immediately.

My girlfriend and I, began to research the matter and have adjusted our lifestyle to accommodate Mister Avery. Here's our current strategy:

Feeding:
09AM - 1.75 oz of Fancy Feast (variety pack) Classic Pate + 2.5 U of ProZinc
12PM - 1.75 oz of Fancy Feast (variety pack) Classic Pate
03PM - 0.5 oz of Tiki cat chicken dry food (for when we're at work)
09PM - 1.75 oz of Fancy Feast (variety pack) Classic Pate + 2.5 U of ProZinc
12AM - 1.75 oz of Fancy Feast (variety pack) Classic Pate
05AM - 0.5 oz of Tiki cat chicken dry food (for when we're at asleep)

We also provide raw freeze-dried treats (1 oz.) periodically. Brand is Vital Essentials Turkey Entree

I can happily report that since beginning insulin, he's gained 2.3 lbs (now up to 7.8 lbs from 5.5 lbs). He's not dehydrated, more playful, affectionate and alert. HOWEVER his blood glucose levels are still high. When we initially took him to the vet he was at 391. We purchased a glucometer (ReliOn Premier) and have tried to test him daily. It was difficult to draw blood however has become much easier since switching to a 30 gauge lancet. His numbers are as follows:

diabetes.png


So here's my dilemma. Yes, he's responding in some way aas he's gained weight and less lethargic but his numbers are not where they need to be. In fact, if we weren't testing him I would have assumed he was absolutely fine. I'm surprised as I heard ProZinc works very well - aside from the obvious outlier (96 on 10/13/2023) his BG has been over 250. We're very disappointed as even at 2.5u - 2.75u his numbers are elevated. Our vet isn't comfortable continuing to work outside of ProZinc so we have already booked with a new vet for October 23, 2023 and we want to ask about switching to Lantus.

Additionally, Avery has had a CBC and urine culture test done. His cholesterol is high (309), NA/K RATIO was low (31), PrecisionPSL was high (316), CPK was low (48) and Fructosamine was high (587). No ketones were present in urine and we continue to test using strips. Lastly, RenalTech status indicated development of chronic kidney disease within the next 24 months with 95% accuracy. Low PrecisionPSL elevation correlate closely with abnormal PLW concentrations and may support a diagnosis for pancreatitis. Lastly, he has developed sore gums due to periodontal issues which may lead to a canine extraction. His gums - especially that on the left side, under the left canine - is very inflamed and developed a dark red sore.

We currently have two appointments scheduled:
October 23, 2023 for a new regular vet to prescribe insulin (possibly change) and dental work.
November 06, 2023 for a board certified internal medicine specialist

I'm not really sure what I'd like from this sub but I would like to post this info dump somewhere. Hopefully I can return to this and report good news by the end of the year. Any suggestions are very much welcome, alongside anecdotes which may mirror experience.

Thank you!
 
Welcome.

Prozinc does work well for most cats but some find a switch to a depot insulin like Lantus works better.

I'm tagging @Suzanne & Darcy who is very familiar with Prozinc for you.

If you could set up a spreadsheet, that would be very helpful. It's the first place someone on the forum looks. It also has a tab for lab work.
 
Hi and welcome to the forum.

Dry high carb food is not good for any cat, especially a diabetic cat. That’s like feeding your diabetic child a diet of chips, ice cream and sweets. Can you maybe get an auto feeder and leave low carb freeze dried treats instead? The only 2 dry foods that are low carb are Dr Elseys and Young Again Zero Carb if you need to stick with dry.

With a diabetic cat you need:
  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly
We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more!
 
And it’s a good idea to read up on the yellow sticky notes in the prozinc forum. Lost of great useful info there about the insulin and the dosing methods we use here

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions!
 
One more thing, we like to say here they feline diabetes is a marathon not a sprint. 4 weeks is not very long at all and it can take a few month to get a cat regulated. ProZinc is a great insulin and I’d like to see you testing him at least 4 times a day. Once we can see the data in the spreadsheet, we can give dosing advice. Oh and teeth issues, like the inflammation you mentioned are known for raising the bg. I’d be curious to see how he does after the dental appt and off the dry food.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
One more thing, we like to say here they feline diabetes is a marathon not a sprint. 4 weeks is not very long at all and it can take a few month to get a cat regulated. ProZinc is a great insulin and I’d like to see you testing him at least 4 times a day. Once we can see the data in the spreadsheet, we can give dosing advice. Oh and teeth issues, like the inflammation you mentioned are known for raising the bg. I’d be curious to see how he does after the dental appt and off the dry food.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all the comments. I'm going to work on the spreadsheet tonight. Yes, I intend to test more often. I was having a lot of trouble drawing enough blood with a 33 gauge lancet but the 30 gauge is just right. Today is the first day I was able to successfully test him twice without going through 10 strips and pulling my hair out. Additionally, we have two devices: ReliOn and my mom gifted me a Contour One Touch. I know it's recommended to just stick with one but do you have a preference between the two?

As mentioned earlier, I tested him twice: The first +6 @ 2.5u - 435, and +2 @ 2.5u - 273. Thank you for the comment about ProZinc potentially taking a while to work and I've definitely had some people inform me that dental issues could cause BG to further elevate. I'm definitely more of a "racer" and tend to be impatient when seeking results so I very much appreciate your comment telling me slow it down, considering it's only been 4 weeks.
 
Welcome, what a handsime boy Avery is
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.

The signature is at the end of everyone's post in gray ,information about our cats
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
 
CheshireKitten said:
. I know it's recommended to just stick with one but do you have a preference between the two?
Click to expand...
Most of us use the Relion Premier Classic, or any other Relion Meters
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
 
About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave


+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers



You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it
 
Last edited:
I would also look into an automatic feeder for instead of leaving out the tiki dry food
You can set the auto feeders to open at certain times
You can put the wet food in them
Here is an auto feeder that hold 5 slots and comes with 2 ice packs for wet food
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-C500-Digital-Automatic/dp/B01AUYLVU8/ref=sr_1_6?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuM_y2p79_AIVDvrICh1_xAy6EAAYASAAEgJBDfD_BwE&hvadid=178540036693&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6990619631848479728&hvtargid=kwd-12652445711&hydadcr=10635_9894649&keywords=petsafe 5-meal automatic pet feeder&qid=1675560889&sr=8-6

Extra ice packs so you can keep them in the freezer ready to go
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Rep...5c-bd5c-e23f6094563c&pd_rd_i=B091HTXNHR&psc=1

This one has 3 slots with one ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Automatic-Feeder-Digital/dp/B01MXDFB28

Extra ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Replace...cb-974a-deec2fb8a80c&pd_rd_i=B07KFP7PRG&psc=1


If you must feed the low carb kibble , ( better to give just low carb wet though)
As for the low carb kibble
None of them are cheap
They are aboutv5 or 6% carbs
You need to order them online
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE

Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90

Most feed the Dr Elsey's Chicken flavor
I've read that the Young Again caused diarrhea in some cats
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I would also look into an automatic feeder for instead of leaving out the tiki dry food
You can set the auto feeders to open at certain times
You can put the wet food in them
Here is an auto feeder that hold 5 slots and comes with 2 ice packs for wet food
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-C500-Digital-Automatic/dp/B01AUYLVU8/ref=sr_1_6?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuM_y2p79_AIVDvrICh1_xAy6EAAYASAAEgJBDfD_BwE&hvadid=178540036693&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6990619631848479728&hvtargid=kwd-12652445711&hydadcr=10635_9894649&keywords=petsafe 5-meal automatic pet feeder&qid=1675560889&sr=8-6

Extra ice packs so you can keep them in the freezer ready to go
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Rep...5c-bd5c-e23f6094563c&pd_rd_i=B091HTXNHR&psc=1

This one has 3 slots with one ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Automatic-Feeder-Digital/dp/B01MXDFB28

Extra ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Replace...cb-974a-deec2fb8a80c&pd_rd_i=B07KFP7PRG&psc=1
Click to expand...

Thank you, Diane. To respond, I have completed the spreadsheet and it should be posted to my signature. Additionally, I have stared at that image (the sweet spot to prick the cat's ear) for more time than I'd like to admit but I think I get the flow now. Initially I felt like I was ruining my little buddy's ear but now I'm able to get in and get out rather quickly. Luckily, Avery has such a sweet, sweet temperament and doesn't give me any hassle as long as he doesn't sense me getting frustrated. He's really a darling and I want to do everything and anything in my power to give him the best quality of life.

As far as the feeding, we do use an auto-feeder which only releases .5 oz of food per serving. I stopped free-feeding years ago because my other cat, Sasha, is a complete glutton and needed to be better regulated and less demanding anytime we locked eyes. I am definitely going to be checking those out as they look PERFECT for the two meals I'm using dry kibble. Luckily, my girlfriend and I work from home most of the time but one the occasion we are both out of the house we needed something to feed them. We'd like to transition to 100% wet food as soon as possible so those recommendations are fabulous.

EDIT: Spreadsheet won't update to reflect some changes :/
 
Last edited:
CheshireKitten said:
Thank you, Diane. To respond, I have completed the spreadsheet and it should be posted to my signature. Additionally, I have stared at that image (the sweet spot to prick the cat's ear) for more time than I'd like to admit but I think I get the flow now. Initially I felt like I was ruining my little buddy's ear but now I'm able to get in and get out rather quickly. Luckily, Avery has such a sweet, sweet temperament and doesn't give me any hassle as long as he doesn't sense me getting frustrated. He's really a darling and I want to do everything and anything in my power to give him the best quality of life.

As far as the feeding, we do use an auto-feeder which only releases .5 oz of food per serving. I stopped free-feeding years ago because my other cat, Sasha, is a complete glutton and needed to be better regulated and less demanding anytime we locked eyes. I am definitely going to be checking those out as they look PERFECT for the two meals I'm using dry kibble. Luckily, my girlfriend and I work from home most of the time but one the occasion we are both out of the house we needed something to feed them. We'd like to transition to 100% wet food as soon as possible so those recommendations are fabulous.
Click to expand...
I was looking at your SS ,the color coding you have up top , the last 2 colors are for a pet meter, you are using a human meter correct?
You used the templet for a pet meter
The dark green should be 50-99
And the lime green should be BG<50
Take a look at mine Tyler's ,he's been in remission since 1-24-21
One other thing are you testing him before every shot
I don't see any BG number in the AMPS or PMPS cell

We need more information in your signature
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
Do you see mine its it's in gray letters
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I was looking at your SS ,the color coding you have up top , the last 2 colors are for a pet meter, you are using a human meter correct?
The dark green should be 50-99
And the lime green should be BG<50
Take a look at mine Tyler's ,he's been in remission since 1-24-21
One other thing are you testing him before every shot
I don't see any BG number in the AMPS or PMPS cell

We need more information in your signature
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
Do you see mine its it's in gray letters
Click to expand...

Gotcha! I've updated the fields as I am using a human meter. I also removed the row 4 (mentioning pet meter). The form also updated, I believe if someone is looking at it, it publishes later. It's updated now.

I haven't tested AMPS or PMPS. To be honest, getting one test a day was beginning to get frustrating and I was worried that I was pricking Avery's ear too many times to draw enough blood. We switched to a 30 gauge needle. began to apply a warm towel and massage around the puncture point which has made a big difference. Now that I have a few days of trial-and-error, I'll begin testing AMPS and PMPS.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
We adjust the dose by how low your cats BG drops ( nadir lowest point in the cycle)
You also want to give the same amount of insulin both morning and evening
I'm pretty sure you can only follow SLGS if you are feeding any kibble, the other method is called Modified not TR
Here is the link for the dosing methods
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-methods.225629/
Click to expand...

Alright, I changed TR to SLGS. I'll test AMPS and PMPS over the remainder of the week. I'll also check out the dosing method and check back in after his visit on Monday. He appears to have dental issues, alongside inflammation around the gums. I'm hoping if we can work through any dental work and give the ProZinc more time at 2.5u we'll start to see his BG get better regulated.
 
CheshireKitten said:
Gotcha! I've updated the fields as I am using a human meter. I also removed the row 4 (mentioning pet meter). The form also updated, I believe if someone is looking at it, it publishes later. It's updated now.

I haven't tested AMPS or PMPS. To be honest, getting one test a day was beginning to get frustrating and I was worried that I was pricking Avery's ear too many times to draw enough blood. We switched to a 30 gauge needle. began to apply a warm towel and massage around the puncture point which has made a big difference. Now that I have a few days of trial-and-error, I'll begin testing AMPS and PMPS.
Click to expand...
Any way you can get rid of where it says up top on the SS where it says templet for pet meter

Yes it's very important to see what the pre shots are, you never know if it's too low to shoot and he goes hypo
Don't mean to be a pain the butt can you add your signature
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Any way you can get rid of where it says up top on the SS where it says templet for pet meter

Yes it's very important to see what the pre shots are, you never know if it's too low to shoot and he goes hypo
Click to expand...

Yep, done. I titled it appropriately. Thank you for walking me through some of that and checking it over Diane. I really appreciate the time you spent with me. I'm hopeful after seeing your spreadsheet and how well Tyler is doing!
 
CheshireKitten said:
Yep, done. I titled it appropriately. Thank you for walking me through some of that and checking it over Diane. I really appreciate the time you spent with me. I'm hopeful after seeing your spreadsheet and how well Tyler is doing!
Click to expand...
You're very welcome, I'm not a prozinc user , but I do see that Re and Rover tagged Suzanne for you who is very familiar with Prozinc.
P.S . Don't forget to do your signature , we need that info so membets don't have to keep asking you , that's the first thing membets look at is the signature :cat:
@CheshireKitten
I would also read about Prozinc , all the yellow stickys
Here's the link
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
You really couldn't have found a better group to join.
If it wasn't for the experienced members here and me taking their advice Tyler wouldn't be in remission today
I think getting the dental work done will really help a. lot
@CheshireKitten
 
Last edited:
Here is the reply that I put on the ProZinc forum. If you reply over there, I will get an email notifying me that there is a reply. There are a couple of us over on the ProZinc forum who who can help you.

here it is:
Hi there and welcome! Your kitty is responding to the ProZinc. Look at that 96 on his spreadsheet! Our problem here in interpreting what’s going on with him is that the BG tests are kind of random - here and there. It’s very important to get a BG test prior to every shot - to make sure it’s even safe to give the insulin at that time. If we don’t know where he started from then we don’t know know what’s going on. It’s important to know what his preshot numbers are, then to get a test in about +2/+3 so we can see when the ProZinc onsets (starts to kick in) and then we need to try to pinpoint when Mister usually has nadir (lowest point in the cycle.). Doses are based on the nadir so that we make sure a dose isn’t dropping him too low — and also we take into consideration the preshot number, especially with ProZinc.There are some high numbers on his spreadsheet, yes, but we can’t tell from the limited data if at least some of those are due to bouncing. Bouncesare high BG that occurs as a result of a cat’s blood glucose dropping too quickly or dropping lower than the cat’s body is accustomed (whichcan even be relatively high numbers if the cat has been used to very high BG.). With your schedule, would you be able to get some more mid-cycletesting done so we can see a bigger picture of what he’s doing during the day? Also, please test his BG prior to both the a.m. and p.m. shots.
 
Hi and welcome. Waving from WNY! Great picture, I love that you began your very first post here with a big pic of the sugar kittah.

Nice work getting your feet under you in regards to handling Avery's diagnosis and insulin therapy. The vast majority of people who come here have never tested their cat's BG, and have zero data in the beginning. You have really hit the ground running -- exceedingly impressive. You must love that little guy a lot.

I'm no expert, just a guy who was helped by the amazing experts here like Suzanne and got tons of tips on testing the BG from Diane which eventually, after a few weeks, allowed me to start to test my boy's BG regularly. Our vet was next to useless so this place saved me and saved my cat. After six months of following the Tight Regulation dosing method with Lantus, my cat entered diabetic remission and is now a diet controlled diabetic feline.

Be warned, if you eliminate the dry kibble you are feeding it could make a big difference in the BGs and suddenly the amount of insulin you are giving could be too much. So if/when you change the food please be extra vigilant and test the BGs frequently.

If you do eliminate the dry food, then I strongly recommend following Tight Regulation. In one study, over 80% of the cats on TR went into remission! When I read that statistic I said to myself well, self, you're just going to have to buckle down and do whatever it takes to follow this dosing methods as it clearly gave my boy Hendrick the best chance at remission.

Regarding that test which says "95% chance of kidney disease in next two years" -- we got the same result for our 15-year-old Blue Point, Roxy. We were already feeding lower phosphorous foods and taking other steps to prolong good kidney function. Here is what Suzanne had to say:

"Many cats can do well for years with compromised kidney function. To get these "predictive" tests is very scary, isn't it. In the case of kidney disease, I almost hate them, because really you are just going to worry more once they've told you that 95% certainty number -- and yet, there's really nothing different that you can do to help your cat that you're not already doing (the attempts at keeping her hydrated, the lower phosphorus food, etc.) In there early stages that's about all you do anyway. You would never move to a renal food for a long time and other interventions are for later stage kidney disease.

What their RenalTech predictive test cannot predict is how long it will take a cat to show any signs of illness with kidney disease. Cats can live very good quality lives with compromised kidney function. They are amazing animals. That test cannot predict how quickly any cat will progress through the stages of kidney disease, or even if any cat will progress in its kidney disease at all. Some cats remain stable for many years and some don't."

Now, on that note I see that you are feeding a lot of Fancy Feast pates. These are all SUPER high in phosphorus. We have moved away from feeding most of the FF pate varieties due to that high phos level. The lowest one is Savory Salmon Pate at 267, under 200 is ideal for an older cat with declining kidney function. We now feed more weruva and tiki varieties and I also make a batch of homemade raw food for the clan every night using E-Z Complete

Check out this DB of various cat foods, you can sort and filter for different values like phosphorus and the % of calories delivered from carbohydrates:

https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php


I'll see you around the forum! More pics of Avery are required though -- cat tax!

-Kyle
 
Foods for Diabetes and Kidney Issues because the phosphorus is low

BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 133%

BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.20%
Phosphorus 134%

BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 4.90%
Phosphorus 132%

BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5.10%
Phosphorus 133%

BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.20%
Phosphorus 152%

BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 152%

BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.10%
Phosphorus 163%

BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5.30%
Phosphorus 175%

Don't know if your kitty likes pate but here is the list of the BFF line.
YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS

Also

https://www.amazon.com/Weruva-Focus...cphy=9003521&hvtargid=pla-1796056536677&psc=1

I know you can buy single cans of the BFF I listed at Petco, Petco, to see which ones your kitty likes , the Focused one not to sure
71WqJPQiM2L.__AC_SX300_SY300_QL70_FMwebp_.jpg




With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.


You can even check out the soulistic pates
https://www.soulisticpet.com/pate
When you click on one of the flavors then click on
COMPLETE NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION (link to page)
and look at the same two places like on the weruva site


Do you have your hypo kit set up in case she drops too low
Hypo kit
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods
And some honey in the house

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.
fromThe Official Lantus, Levemir & Biosimilars Slang Dictionary
 
Hi! I'm new to all this too, and this group has been great for calming me down and getting me through some of my fears. They are wonderfully helpful and patient. I'm lucky I also have a vet who is totally on our side, but these guys understand that I'm with Angus all the time and gelp to balance out bewteen what I want to do and the vet does.
I'm also like you I am impatient for Angus to get better. I'm pretty lucky it's only been a month for me and we've seen big changes. But all circumstances are different. I think my little guy had this started by a large(non cancerous) tumor growing at the back of his mouth, which caused major upper respiratory issues. When the tumor was removed, they did a blood test and found out he was diabetic. We only got 1 dose of insulin into him, and he went dka. Now the tumor is gone, and his upper respiratory has cleared up his numbers are greatly improved. Hopefully, if your little ones teeth ate the issue, once fixed, he'll start getting better very quickly. We also changed from a dry and wet diet at some point in that month to a straight wet, and that also made a big difference. We have 5 cats, so we have had to use several microchip feeders, but we had them from when a previous furbaby had ibd.
I hope all goes well and we'll both see remission!
 
Angus' mom said:
Hi! I'm new to all this too, and this group has been great for calming me down and getting me through some of my fears. They are wonderfully helpful and patient. I'm lucky I also have a vet who is totally on our side, but these guys understand that I'm with Angus all the time and gelp to balance out bewteen what I want to do and the vet does.
I'm also like you I am impatient for Angus to get better. I'm pretty lucky it's only been a month for me and we've seen big changes. But all circumstances are different. I think my little guy had this started by a large(non cancerous) tumor growing at the back of his mouth, which caused major upper respiratory issues. When the tumor was removed, they did a blood test and found out he was diabetic. We only got 1 dose of insulin into him, and he went dka. Now the tumor is gone, and his upper respiratory has cleared up his numbers are greatly improved. Hopefully, if your little ones teeth ate the issue, once fixed, he'll start getting better very quickly. We also changed from a dry and wet diet at some point in that month to a straight wet, and that also made a big difference. We have 5 cats, so we have had to use several microchip feeders, but we had them from when a previous furbaby had ibd.
I hope all goes well and we'll both see remission!
Click to expand...

Thank you and appreciate you sharing! That's scary but I'm glad you had a vet on your side. We are seeking a new vet at the moment and have an appointment this coming Monday so finger's crossed! Avery definitely has gingivitis and there's a sore by his left canine. Very scary but luckily the new vet clinic also has dental so I'm hoping the appointment yields hopeful results and a plan of action.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Foods for Diabetes and Kidney Issues because the phosphorus is low

BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 133%

BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.20%
Phosphorus 134%

BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 4.90%
Phosphorus 132%

BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5.10%
Phosphorus 133%

BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.20%
Phosphorus 152%

BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 152%

BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.10%
Phosphorus 163%

BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5.30%
Phosphorus 175%

Don't know if your kitty likes pate but here is the list of the BFF line.
YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS

Also

https://www.amazon.com/Weruva-Focus...cphy=9003521&hvtargid=pla-1796056536677&psc=1

I know you can buy single cans of the BFF I listed at Petco, Petco, to see which ones your kitty likes , the Focused one not to sure
71WqJPQiM2L.__AC_SX300_SY300_QL70_FMwebp_.jpg




With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.


You can even check out the soulistic pates
https://www.soulisticpet.com/pate
When you click on one of the flavors then click on
COMPLETE NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION (link to page)
and look at the same two places like on the weruva site


Do you have your hypo kit set up in case she drops too low
Hypo kit
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods
And some honey in the house

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.
fromThe Official Lantus, Levemir & Biosimilars Slang Dictionary
Click to expand...

You are seriously helpful. Thank you for going above and beyond by providing all these helpful posts. We do have a hypo kit on hand just in case. My girlfriend and I will re-review his diet and adjust based on all the suggestions.
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
Hi and welcome. Waving from WNY! Great picture, I love that you began your very first post here with a big pic of the sugar kittah.

Nice work getting your feet under you in regards to handling Avery's diagnosis and insulin therapy. The vast majority of people who come here have never tested their cat's BG, and have zero data in the beginning. You have really hit the ground running -- exceedingly impressive. You must love that little guy a lot.

I'm no expert, just a guy who was helped by the amazing experts here like Suzanne and got tons of tips on testing the BG from Diane which eventually, after a few weeks, allowed me to start to test my boy's BG regularly. Our vet was next to useless so this place saved me and saved my cat. After six months of following the Tight Regulation dosing method with Lantus, my cat entered diabetic remission and is now a diet controlled diabetic feline.

Be warned, if you eliminate the dry kibble you are feeding it could make a big difference in the BGs and suddenly the amount of insulin you are giving could be too much. So if/when you change the food please be extra vigilant and test the BGs frequently.

If you do eliminate the dry food, then I strongly recommend following Tight Regulation. In one study, over 80% of the cats on TR went into remission! When I read that statistic I said to myself well, self, you're just going to have to buckle down and do whatever it takes to follow this dosing methods as it clearly gave my boy Hendrick the best chance at remission.

Regarding that test which says "95% chance of kidney disease in next two years" -- we got the same result for our 15-year-old Blue Point, Roxy. We were already feeding lower phosphorous foods and taking other steps to prolong good kidney function. Here is what Suzanne had to say:

"Many cats can do well for years with compromised kidney function. To get these "predictive" tests is very scary, isn't it. In the case of kidney disease, I almost hate them, because really you are just going to worry more once they've told you that 95% certainty number -- and yet, there's really nothing different that you can do to help your cat that you're not already doing (the attempts at keeping her hydrated, the lower phosphorus food, etc.) In there early stages that's about all you do anyway. You would never move to a renal food for a long time and other interventions are for later stage kidney disease.

What their RenalTech predictive test cannot predict is how long it will take a cat to show any signs of illness with kidney disease. Cats can live very good quality lives with compromised kidney function. They are amazing animals. That test cannot predict how quickly any cat will progress through the stages of kidney disease, or even if any cat will progress in its kidney disease at all. Some cats remain stable for many years and some don't."

Now, on that note I see that you are feeding a lot of Fancy Feast pates. These are all SUPER high in phosphorus. We have moved away from feeding most of the FF pate varieties due to that high phos level. The lowest one is Savory Salmon Pate at 267, under 200 is ideal for an older cat with declining kidney function. We now feed more weruva and tiki varieties and I also make a batch of homemade raw food for the clan every night using E-Z Complete

Check out this DB of various cat foods, you can sort and filter for different values like phosphorus and the % of calories delivered from carbohydrates:

https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php


I'll see you around the forum! More pics of Avery are required though -- cat tax!

-Kyle
Click to expand...

Yes, thank you! I did a TON of research and could never forgive myself if I didn't do absolutely everything in my power to keep Avery well and happy. He and his sister, Sasha, were the first cats my girlfriend and I adopted together and we've raised them since they were weeks old. They mean so much to us.

Honestly this community is filled with saints. I'm used to Twitter and Reddit where I get no responses or support so I'm still in shock with just how many people have jumped in to provide soooo much helpful info. Now, I liked my vet but he was very limited in scope and basically referred us away when I mentioned that the ProZinc wasn't regulating his BG. Luckily, I saw the writing on the wall and scheduled for a new vet beforehand.

And yes, as soon as I read the RenalTech prediction my heart dropped. I think that's when I began to get more frantic but it did push me to find this message board. Lots of people mentioned Fancy Feast Pate so we immediately moved there but on some level, I knew we'd have to eventually find higher quality food. Fancy Feast was just familiar, cheap and better than dry kibble. We haven't completely removed dry kibble just yet but hearing how it helped Hendrick definitely moves me.

Anyway, I specifically want to thank you for looking through my post and pointing out the high phosphorous in Fancy Feast. I honestly did not know that but Diane had some recommendations that I am going to look at.
 
This is just an update post. I don't know if it's possible to tag people but I want to thank each and every one of you for your responses. I have read through and tried to respond to each on but I just want to dedicate a seperate post to say thank you. I feel more confident in helping Avery and will review and re-read each and every recommendation. I want to leave a note for myself:

1. Re-review feeding as Fancy Feast Pate is high in phosphorus, Diane made great recommendations. Purchase a auto-feeder suitable for wet feed so I can eliminate dry kibble entirely. Make sure I have a hypo-kit ready as adjusting their diet to TR also risks dropping their BG too low.

2. Continue to test AMPS and PMPS and attempt to test at least twice between then for a better picture on what his BG looks like.

3. Update after visiting the vet and any way in which his oral issues may contribute to his BG levels.
 
@CheshireKitten tags most certainly work :D

I still feed FF Savory Salmon Pate but sparingly. The clan loves it so much....I don't know what they put in that stuff. It is given more like a treat now, a can or two split among all 7 of the gang, couple times a week maybe.

Also, there is a product called Epkatin which is a phosphorus binder. Typically not used until a cat is much further along in reduced kidney function, it keeps the phos from being absorbed. Might be something for you to consider down the road a bit.

(that's right I said 7...)

Roxy, Hendrick, Shiloh, Oreo, Chester, Kayla and Coko. 3 rescues, 4 from family connections.
 
Last edited:
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
I still feed FF Savory Salmon Pate but sparingly. The clan loves it so much....I don't know what they put in that stuff. It is given more like a treat now, a can or two split among all 7 of the gang, couple times a week maybe.
Click to expand...
Me too, Kyle. I use it sometimes if I have a sick cat who will not eat, as well. Of course, these are not cats with kidney disease, but I like to be cautious with all of my senior kitties as I have had several cats with CKD now. They do love that Savory Salmon Feast.
 
CheshireKitten said:
This is just an update post. I don't know if it's possible to tag people but I want to thank each and every one of you for your responses. I have read through and tried to respond to each on but I just want to dedicate a seperate post to say thank you. I feel more confident in helping Avery and will review and re-read each and every recommendation. I want to leave a note for myself:

1. Re-review feeding as Fancy Feast Pate is high in phosphorus, Diane made great recommendations. Purchase a auto-feeder suitable for wet feed so I can eliminate dry kibble entirely. Make sure I have a hypo-kit ready as adjusting their diet to TR also risks dropping their BG too low.

2. Continue to test AMPS and PMPS and attempt to test at least twice between then for a better picture on what his BG looks like.

3. Update after visiting the vet and any way in which his oral issues may contribute to his BG levels.
Click to expand...
Ideally you want a midday test and an evening test after pmps so a +2 or +3 at night :)

you’re doing great, keep it up!

a note about the CKD food. Bobo is in stage 2 but won’t eat any of them. I tried them all. So he’s still on FF. An option if that happens is to add a binder to the food once the CKD advances. It’s important for a diabetic cat to eat so that has to always be the priority.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Ideally you want a midday test and an evening test after pmps so a +2 or +3 at night :)

you’re doing great, keep it up!

a note about the CKD food. Bobo is in stage 2 but won’t eat any of them. I tried them all. So he’s still on FF. An option if that happens is to add a binder to the food once the CKD advances. It’s important for a diabetic cat to eat so that has to always be the priority.
Click to expand...

Yes, eating wet food and drinking is my priority at the moment and luckily he's doing both. Still seems to be grooming, sleeping with his belly up and isn't lethargic. I tested him again but his levels were really, really high so that vet visit couldn't come soon enough and I'm going to inquire about antibiotics as his left gum is rather inflamed.

Thank you, I'm trying. I've already lost 10 lbs because of the stress
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top