New Member - Desperate question about stopping insulin

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Hi Deb.

U-100, 3/10cc, 30 gauge x 1/2" with whole units are what he gave me. He mentioned there were syringes with smaller units on the right, but he didn't know where I could get them for sure. I'll call around to the pharmacys tomorrow to see who has the 1/2 inch units, then have him call them in.

Thank you.
 
Hi Gang.

So I was able to get the +2 test last night (219) after her skipped PM shot, which had a PMPS of 144.

This morning she was back up to 426, so I did as directed and gave her .05 units instead of 1, with the hope that she will be in a safe place at her PMPS test to do another .05 units. Fingers, toes, legs and eyes are crossed!

Keytones are also still negative.

:smile:
 
This morning she was back up to 426, so I did as directed and gave her .05 units instead of 1, with the hope that she will be in a safe place at her PMPS test to do another .05 units. Fingers, toes, legs and eyes are crossed!
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And paws, don't forget to cross those kitty paws. We have 3 sets here crossed for you. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wal-Mart Relion syringes have 1/2 U markings.
Some Terumo's have 1/2 U markings.
Some BD have 1/2 U markings.

Those are all I know of.
 
Awesome! I'll probably get the Relion ones then. Since my vet is on vacation, I decided to skip the BG test at the office today with the tech. Since I'm already doing many myself, why stress her out unneccesarily. I actually sent them a copy of the spreadsheet with her numbers so they can see what's going on with her.

With this new .05U plan, I'm going to try today to get a test every 3 hours. I just did one and it's now down to 291. I figured this would help give you guys more data.

Strange question: She has a bunch of large bald spots on her back and tail from pulling her hair out. Would it hurt to try a stick in either place, to give her ears a break today? I know they say you can do it on the large paw pad, but I don't know if that could get infected from the litter box or not.
Just a thought...

Thanks, Deb.

:-D
 
The reason we use the ears is because it is 'easy' to encourage growth of new capillaries (hence the phrase 'the ears "learn" to bleed") plus the larger veins are easy to see, which makes it easier to avoid poking right into them ... The skin on the back is not likely to bleed well enough for you to test by without causing injury imo.
 
I wouldn't use the bald spots, as there is something going on - allergy/inflammatory - and you don't want to aggravate it.

If you use the paw pads, you might use an antiseptic wipe on the paw first, test, blot, and then rinse/wipe with plain water.

Shiraz13 said:
... gave her .05 units instead of 1...
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I think you may mean 0.5 units rather than .05.
 
Yeah, I figured you'd say something like that. She's been scratching at her ears a lot today, so I thought it must be starting to bother them. Not sure how well she'd let me check the paw. She doesn't normally even like them to be touched, so I might save that one for a last resort type thing. But I will do what you recommened if/when I do try them. I'll "stick" to the ears for now (pun intended)...lol. :lol:
 
If its just because the skin has been polked, you might try alternating ears. And a dab of Neosporing ointment (not cream) with pain relief, or generic, applied to the ear, let set for a couple minutes, then wiped off, will reduce the annoyance of testing and help the blood to bead up.

Other things may cause itchy ears - be on the alert for fleas (they may ride indoors on people), ear mites if ever outside, wax buildup, yeast infections, bacterial infections, etc.

A gauze pad may be used to gently wipe out the ear. If it smells sour, there's a possibility of a yeast infection. If it is brownish-red and crumbly, it could be wax buildup of mites.

If the ear needs cleaning, a pet ear cleanser may be used to saturate a cotton ball, the cotton ball placed in the ear canal, the ear massaged around the cotton ball, the cotton ball removed, and a dry cotton ball massaged in the ear canal to dry any residue, then removed.
 
Actually, I'm already using both ears, I use ointment w/ pain med each time, she just had frontline a few days ago (for the first time because the vet is convinced she has a flea allergy and that's why she's pulling her hair out, even though she's indoor), her ears are clean and definitely doesn't have mites. She's literally just scratching the tips of her ears, not the inside where dirt or mites would irritate. My other cat always has ear issues, so that's something I tend to pay attention to with both.

Even though the I use very little ointment, and I rub it in a bit, I haven't been wiping it off after a few mintues. I guess it's possible the "feel" of it there annoyed her? Hmmmmm. Perhaps. I'll start wiping it off and see if that helps.

And I think cutting the dose back again to .5 was just the trick. She's much perkier today. YAY!

Thank goodness I had the summer off, otherwise I have clue how I would be able to do all this...and research...and function.

Thanks, BJM.
 
I decided to skip the BG test at the office today with the tech. Since I'm already doing many myself, why stress her out unneccesarily. I actually sent them a copy of the spreadsheet with her numbers so they can see what's going on with her.
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You've just discovered one of the cost saving benefits of home testing. I don't know how much your vet charges for a curve done at the vet, but mine charges $100 each, $20 per ear poke. You've also got much more realistic numbers with testing in a familiar environment instead of those vet stress induced high numbers. Plus, you saved some gas!

Wink started to lose the hair above his eyes after I was using the antibiotic ointment w/pain relief. I made sure to wipe it off very, very well after that. That way he could groom his ears and not get any of it spread to any other part of his body.

OOH! You got a picture up in your avatar! I just noticed. Which one is Klepto again? ohmygod_smile The orange and white one right?
 
I was FINALLY able to get the avatar to work. I kept trying to use a pic I had already shrunk to 11KB, and when it shrunk it on the website, it kept coming up all black. Turns out I needed to use the original HUGE file from my phone. Who knew!?

haha...yes, my little thievin' rescue cat Klepto is the orange and white one. He tests Onyx's patience on a daily basis...lol. Onyx is quite a bit older too, which only makes it worse. He always wants to play, but for quite some time, she just hasn't had the desire. At least now I know why. He does keep licking her "pierced" ears though, so that's sweet of him, and the only time she's not hissing at him for being too close...lol.

Yeah, the vets office didn't seem too thrilled that I was finding help elsewhere. But if I wouldn't have found you guys, god only knows what would have happened to my little sweetie after their way too high dosing for a week. O well, they'll get over it. I'll still take her in periodically, but I'll definitely try saving money where I can--AND keeping her from being stressed out uneccessarily. She's already getting used to the routine, without stress. When she sees me grab the pink and white make-up bag, she sits down beside me and starts sucking her paw (yes, like a baby sucks it's thumb!) to get ready for it. I think what annoys her the most is the small LED flash light I dangle from my mouth. She always looks into it at first, and it's really bright. I'm considering getting that Illumavein thing, which would stop that. We shall see.

And I will definitely start wiping the ointment off after a few minutes.

:-D
 
When she sees me grab the pink and white make-up bag, she sits down beside me and starts sucking her paw (yes, like a baby sucks it's thumb!) to get ready for it. I think what annoys her the most is the small LED flash light I dangle from my mouth. She always looks into it at first, and it's really bright.
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She's already coming to sit beside you when she sees that bag! :o That's fantastic. I think our diabetic kitties know when it's time to test and that we are trying our best to make them feel better.

My ageing eyes need really bright light to see through all Wink's long black fur. I took one of those clip on lamps and clamped it to the towel bar in my bathroom. Every time I turned it on, Wink would come over to his spot for his test. ;-)
 
Yeah, I have trouble seeing through Onyx's long black hair too. I don't want to shave them if I don't have to.

Yes, she's being great. I just did another 3 hour reading (which is going back up, by the way) while she was napping, and she literally didn't even move...from beginning to end. That one shocked me a bit...lol. Thank goodnesss she's such a passive, gentle cat. I can't even imagine the trouble people have. My mom has a cat that's a biter. That would NOT be good.

Maybe I'll try a clip light like you did. Oh wait...I have a book light I might be able to jimmy-rig up something. Thanks for the idea! Woo hoo!!! lol
 
Morning everyone.

Okay, so I did 6 BG tests yesterday to help get more data. She mostly stayed in the 200's all day, but this morning she's back up to 400. And I think I did my first fur shot, because I could smell the insulin on my hand afterwards. It felt like it was in though. Should I test in a few hours to see if it's coming down to know if she got some?
 
Did you shoot last night? The dose column is empty.

Sucks on the fur shot. Happens to all of us. remember to not shoot again as you dont know how much got in there. A + 3 would be good anyway although you might not see the impact of the fur shot for a few days because of the depot effect of Lantus.

Did Deb talk to you about the Lantus Forum?

Wendy
 
We've all done fur shots. And shot ourselves, poked ourselves, etc.

Some of the insulin may have gone in, so if you test, you may see that.
 
Well, I wasn't able to test at +3 because I had a doctors appointment, so I just did a +5 that was 438. So I'd say I missed it all. :YMSIGH:

Thanks for catching that on her SS...I filled in the dose, and yes, I gave her one lastnight. I feel so bad I did a fur shot. She was feeling so good, and now she's back to being wierd and standoffish. Grrrrrrrr.
 
BJM said:
We've all done fur shots. And shot ourselves, poked ourselves, etc.
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I can personally attest to the fact that the Neosporin with pain relief really does take the sting away from a poke! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wendy, no I have not mentioned the ISG forums yet.

Here’s how to post in ISG forums:
  • Every day ( or as often as you can) you open a new thread/post. We call them "condos" (short for condition report, or the home you live in and the cat trees some people have)
  • The subject has the date/cats name and BG readings ie 06/23 CATname AMPS 400 +2 333 + 5 224. You add a ? icon if you have a question. You should update your subject line in the very first post for the day as you get a reading, or whenever you have a question.
  • The contents of your post have a quick update on how your cat is feeling as regards the 5Ps ( peeing. pooing, preening, playing and purring) and any questions and a link to your previous post ie : Today CATname was in a good mood, playing and eating well. But he is peeing a lot and his BG is really high. Should I increase the dose?
  • For your first post put "newbie" also in your subject so everyone can welcome you!

    There is no rush to post in one of the insulin specific support groups. I like to suggest that people go over to their insulin specific support group and check it out. Read the Stickies at the top of the Topics section. Read a few condos posted by other members. Get a feel for how the forum works. See if you think it would be a good fit for you.

    Lantus actually has 2 forums, the ISG Lantus TR and the ISG "Relaxed Lantus". More active in TR so if you need an immediate answer that is the place to post. Probably 50-65 people post there on a regular basis. I counted one time and there were 83 condos with that days date.

    Relaxed Lantus is a bit more laid back. More people following SLGS protocol there. Much less active, maybe 6-8 people posting on a regular basis. Hold the dose longer. If you need an immediate answer to your post, and aren't getting one, do a new post with a link to it in both the Health and TR forums.

    Whichever protocol you decide to use with your Lantus dosing, be assured there are people familiar with the 2 different protocols in both these forums.

    As we have said before, you are always welcome to post here in the Feline Health forum for as long as you want.
 
Thanks, Deb. I'll definitely check out the other forums. Since you guys have been the ones helping me this week, I definitely want to stick with you until we figure out the best plan/protocol for Onyx. I was feeling so good yesterday with her numbers "gradually" coming down, but then to give a fur shot this morning, it totallay screwed up her numbers for the day.

Oh, and I did get the Relion syringes with the 1/2 unit markings today. They didn't have 1/2" needles though, only 5/16.

On another note, the Wellness Core came today and she loves it. Soooooo, I can atleast get her eating that until I get her on the wet food. So hopefully that will help her numbers a bit. Oddly enough, i was just browsing through other posts and came across somehting I must have missed, if someone said it to me in the last few days: "don't feed your cat for a few hours before your AMPS and PMSP, becuase it will mess with the numbers". Since Onyx is a grazer, I know for a fact the last few morning she was munching away all morning. So I'm hoping that might have actually gotten her numbers in the 400s. I"m no sure how bad the Blue Buffalo is, but it had to of affected it. So I will experiment in the morning and not allow her to eat until right before her shot. In a few days I'll have her strictly on the Wellness (temporarily of course).

I talked to one of my vets today and he was very happy that I found you guys and that I've been getting such good guidance. He was pleased that her numbers were mostly holding in the 200's for a few days. He totally agreed with the choice to lower her dose to .5U. He said he'd like me to hold it for a few more days and see what her numbers look like. He said that 2U is pretty normal to start them out, but for some cats, it's just too much. But he said when we increase her, it will only be by .25 or .5.

In closing, my question is this: since Onyx didn't actually have a shot this morning, should I still give her .5 tonight, or should I give her a bit more?
 
Give her the same dose 0.5 , we don't know for sure how much got in. The depot will build up again naturally.

I prefer the 5/16 needles, my cats don't seem to notice the shorter needle and its easier somehow to not have to tent as much.

Wendy
 
It's 2 hours before the pre-shots that you want to take away all food, if you can.

The reason for no food is so we can see a number that has not been spiked higher by food. We want to know that is a fasting number, for at least 2 hours.

Any other tests during the cycle, some food is ok.
 
Okay, sounds good. .5U it is!

And Wendy, I'm hoping Onyx doesn't mind the 5/16 as much either. Half the time she feels the 1/2 a bit, and I try to be so careful.

Deb, I will definitely take away her food 2 hours before her preshots moving forward. Makes perfect sense.

Thanks, gang.

:smile:
 
Wendy - the 5/16 syringe worked soooooooo much better for me, and Onyx seemed so relieved afterwards because it didn't pinch. I'm so glad that's all Walmart had.

So I put up her food for a few hours before her AMPS this morning. Though, sadly, it didn't affect her numbers any, because she was still up to her normal 438. That morning test always seems to be so high. She hid under the bed all night (it went down in the 40's lastnight, and she always goes there when she's cold), so I wasn't able to get an overnight test. I'll try to get a few more tests today, but it definintely seems like the 1U did a lot more for her. When I told showed the vet her SS, he said that maybe since the 1U got her in the low 100's by her PMPS, perhaps she does 1U in the morning, then .5 at night. What do you guys think of that idea? I'm sure we'll want to see another day or two of .5 numbers first, especially since the fur shot yesterday messed everything up.
 
We eyeball 0.25 increments between the half unit marks, so see if you can eyeball 0.75 units, maybe practice with a used syringe.
That way, you'd be able to do the same dose morning and night.
 
Hi Brandi!

Lantus insulin is best dosed giving the same shot in the morning and in the evening.

The protocol we use holds the dose for a minimum of 6 cycles. Because of that fur shot yesterday am 7/24, the cycle count starts over. So as of this PM, 7/25 Onyx will only have been on this 0.5U dose for 3 cycles.

Because of the fur shot/ missed insulin dose, Onyx will go higher or bounce. A bounce can take up to 72 hours to clear. So, I'm asking if you think you can be patient and stay with that 0.5U dose to see if the numbers go a bit lower as Onyx recovers from the missed shot and the insulin depot catches up again. Or do you feel you need to increase Onyx now?

It's very likely that she needs more insulin. I would recommend, as BJM has done, that you give a consistent 0.75U both in the AM and the PM
cycles.

You know your cat better than we do. The ultimate decision is between you and your vet.

p.s. Now that you have a SS (spreadsheet) up and running, would you please update your signature and take out the number of units of insulin you are giving. This is going to be a very fluid and changeable number from here on out and being able to look at the SS will give us the correct dosage as you continue to change the dose over the coming weeks.

Thanks, Deb
 
Hi Deb.

I didn't realize she would bounce all over the place from that fur shot. I just tested her again at +9 and it's now up to 497. Others have suggested keeping it at .5 until after tomorrows PM does, because of the fur shot. But you and BJM haven't steered me wrong up to now, and have been with me all week, so I'm willing to up it to .75 if that's what you guys would do. I'm really worried about keytones with that Nova test saying .6.
 
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